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placer_railway
December 29th, 2007, 11:06 PM
hello

i have been gone awhile because my old super puter died in june with all my 2/3 complete DURANGO & SILVERTON SUPERDETAILED DEM ROUTE content inside it can be saved (transfered) but i now have the funds to build a really powerful system so what should i get?
BUDGET 3,000 - 4,000
THINK THE BEST!
THINK OVERKILL
THINK BEST FRAME RATES POSSIBLE
whats the best power supply?
what is the best processor?
whats the most ram?
whats the best new video card?
what else is needed for "CLASSIC"?
HELP ME PLEASE
long lost john

RooRocz
December 29th, 2007, 11:22 PM
Give us your budget please.

If money is no object, I'd recommend a $17,552.77 Falcon Northwest (http://www.falcon-nw.com/) Mach V gaming box.

But you could get a decent car (or an old CV coach (http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/cvcoach.htm)) for that price, so I'm not sure it's worth it.

placer_railway
December 29th, 2007, 11:57 PM
budget of 3,000.00 - 4,000.00 ish

HawkeyeFultz
December 29th, 2007, 11:59 PM
I'm using Newegg ;) You want Intel 32bit dual-core or AMD 64 bit dual-core? I don't think Trainz supports 64 bit, but I'm an AMD fan anyway:cool:

Tim

RooRocz
December 30th, 2007, 12:07 AM
Intel is 64bit now too. Go for 64 bit if at all possible, get a 64bit operating system - I'd recommend Ubuntu, it runs Trainz decently (faster than Windows itself!) under WINE.

Lo_Poly
December 30th, 2007, 12:15 AM
Give us your budget please.

If money is no object, I'd recommend a $17,552.77 Falcon Northwest (http://www.falcon-nw.com/) Mach V gaming box.

But you could get a decent car (or an old CV coach (http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/cvcoach.htm)) for that price, so I'm not sure it's worth it.

I was able to bump it up to $23,565.11. :cool: Who the heck would want to pay that kind of price? That's just stupid. If you're willing to pay that much for a computer, go for something more logical, like a Yaris or something. :o

And placer_railway, here's a good motherboard I'd reccomend:http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813186134

HawkeyeFultz
December 30th, 2007, 12:20 AM
Intel (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115027) Core 2 Quad...five stars on Newegg...now for a mobo to go with that!
Here is a motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121315)...however it is a pain with WinXP and not very upgradeable...one guy actually fried two WD HDs with it...Another similar Mobo wasn't much better...one guy said the only pro was that it didn't give you diarrhea...

Ok...I've decided to look at AMD motherboards for you...
Here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131163) and here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128074).

They are both socket AM2s, so they support good AMD Athlon FX procs.

Here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010340343+1051720996&name=Socket+AM2) is the page for Socket AM2 procs. You can browse and see what you want...
For RAM, I would recommend a couple of packages of Wintec (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820161677) 2 X 1GB sticks, as the $200 Asus board supports four of them...You could also use the same number of 2GB sticks...8GBs of RAM never hurt!

HawkeyeFultz
December 30th, 2007, 12:29 AM
Here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+4018&name=%24200+-+%24300) is the page for $200 to $300 dollar video cards, more specifically a Radeon 2900Pro 512 MB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161201) video card. Radeon X1950PRO 512 MB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131055) PCI x16 card.

By the way, the second post of mine was begun right after my first...2 people posted in the time I was researching:cool: I love building other people's pc because it costs me nothing!

Tim

Lo_Poly
December 30th, 2007, 12:46 AM
[This comment was edited by the user]

placer_railway
December 30th, 2007, 12:58 AM
MOST OF THIS IS OVER MY HEAD
BUT I AM TAKING COPIOUS NOTES
THANKS FOR HELPING ME
KEEP IT COMING

dmdrake
December 30th, 2007, 01:11 AM
Absolutely great to have you on forum again John!:D Welcome back!!!

Dave

placer_railway
December 30th, 2007, 01:22 AM
DMDRAKE
nice to see your still here
i finally got a little laptop to get back online
now i can get my puter back up to speed
i have missed trs2006 and this forum alot
it is nice that i have not been forgotten
so as soon as puter is ready i will start banging away
on the DURANGO & SILVERTON ( I SWEAR IT WILL GET FINISHED)

THANKS JOHN

HawkeyeFultz
December 30th, 2007, 01:27 AM
Very nice! D&SNG-somewhat a sister railroad to the C&TS version that I'm working on! Glad to see someone shares my insanity

johnwhelan
December 30th, 2007, 06:57 AM
hello

i have been gone awhile because my old super puter died in june with all my 2/3 complete DURANGO & SILVERTON SUPERDETAILED DEM ROUTE content inside it can be saved (transfered) but i now have the funds to build a really powerful system so what should i get?
BUDGET 3,000 - 4,000
THINK THE BEST!
THINK OVERKILL
THINK BEST FRAME RATES POSSIBLE
whats the best power supply?
what is the best processor?
whats the most ram?
whats the best new video card?
what else is needed for "CLASSIC"?
HELP ME PLEASE
long lost john

Do nothing for a month or so. Intel are about to release their 45 nm cpus which run cooler and faster than anything available at the moment.

Also nVidia appear to be about to release some high end video cards if nothing else the 8800 GT will become more wide spreadly available.

Basically Intel cpu, nVidia graphics card, ASUS motherboard, possibly an Antec case and power supply.

www.tomshardware.com for more background.

Cheerio John

CasyJ
December 30th, 2007, 10:35 AM
Give us your budget please.

If money is no object, I'd recommend a $17,552.77 Falcon Northwest (http://www.falcon-nw.com/) Mach V gaming box.



If it is, get a second job :hehe:

Any medium price computer will suffice, provided the video hardware is sufficient to support the graphics. I'm running TRS2004 on an ancient Compaq Presario SR1012SX with a 64M GeForce4-MX wuth good results.

Lo_Poly
December 30th, 2007, 01:09 PM
[This comment was edited by the user]

johnwhelan
December 30th, 2007, 01:58 PM
The problem is, right after they are released, they're gonna release something even cooler right after that (kidding). :p


I can also just build an all-out monster machine if you want. :eek:

The move to 45 nm is much more fundamental than that. It's a fairly large step that happens about every two years.

Cheerio John

johnwhelan
December 30th, 2007, 02:17 PM
The problem is, right after they are released, they're gonna release something even cooler right after that (kidding). :p

Well, I went ahead and slapped together a general use computer. Tell me what you think placer_railway.
Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813186134

Video: 2 orders of http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814125081

Memory: 2 orders of http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820220293

Audio: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16829132005

Processor: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819115017

TV: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16815100014

Hard drives: Get 4 of these. Trust me, 300GB is more than enough. Once done, put in 0+1 RAID. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136011

For overclocking the CPU, you'll need to toss the stock Intel cooling unit, and buy a better one. Here's a very good one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118019

Here's the RAID controller card. Plug your drives into this, not the motherboard. With 4 drives, you can have both stripping and mirroring, faster performance and more reliability. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816129011)=N82E16816129011 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816129011)

A physics card? Most stuff now doesn't use them, but this just "future proofs" you even more. There are already some apps that can use a physics card, and the amount is slowly expanding. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143055

Here's the PSU. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194020


You should pick the media drives and the case out yourself, because the look, feel, and what you need is up to you. :)

I can also just build an all-out monster machine if you want. :eek:

Motherboard tier three company, either use Intel or ASUS for better Windows drivers and updates.

Video card SLI as I understand it needs the game to be able to use it otherwise it doesn't buy anything. As far as I know there are no special drivers for Trainz. You have however just raised the power supply and cooling requirements.

Processor as far as I am aware Trainz runs on a single core so the advantage of quad cores would be three cores adding extra heat? The program needs to be rewritten to use multiple cores. A dual core would let Traniz run on one and the operating system on the other.

Hard drive Trainz doesn't bottleneck on hard drives so why have four expensive ones instead of one or two more normal drives when Trainz can't tell the difference?

Overclocking yes it can be done but there are stability issues and heat issues with four core. Dual cores over clock better and the new 45 nm cpus over clock even better if you are into over clocking.

A physics card isn't used by Trainz so it would just add to the heat inside which makes the machine more unstable.

Case recommendation is a bit loose especially as with all the things you've put in it it's going to need a lot of cooling. I'd actually go and dig at tomshardware on cases. An Antec P190 might fit the bill here with the rest of what you are recommending.

You haven't mentioned an operating system choice by the way. TC is being run under Wine , XP 64 bit XP, vista, 64 bit vista.

Cheerio John

placer_railway
December 30th, 2007, 03:39 PM
thank you all
all this tech spec info is awesome
i have not had to build up a puter before
so i am having a crash course in all this new techno goodies
dual core over clocking raid 0+1
it is taking me alittle while to catch up
but thank you all for your help and keep
the info coming

johnwhelan
December 30th, 2007, 07:37 PM
hello

i have been gone awhile because my old super puter died in june with all my 2/3 complete DURANGO & SILVERTON SUPERDETAILED DEM ROUTE content inside it can be saved (transfered) but i now have the funds to build a really powerful system so what should i get?
BUDGET 3,000 - 4,000
THINK THE BEST!
THINK OVERKILL
THINK BEST FRAME RATES POSSIBLE
whats the best power supply?
what is the best processor?
whats the most ram?
whats the best new video card?
what else is needed for "CLASSIC"?
HELP ME PLEASE
long lost john

Let's start with the basics. If a computer runs too hot then the failure rate goes up, this is generic any sort of game console, computer, Unix server etc. Most off the shelf computers are designed to keep the system cool enough when the cpu runs about 5% utilisation. If you are word processing, web browsing etc. that's about what you use on average. Trainz will run one core at 100% cpu utilisation. The cpu will run much hotter than normal usage.

If you look at the cooler reviews at tomshardware you can see the temperature difference at different cpu utilisation.

So the optimum Trainz computer is one that has components that Trainz can make use of but no more since anything extra means more heat inside the case and lower reliability.

Computers like to be fed clean power, put an APC UPS in between the power socket and the computer.

Some bright spark sat down and looked at what you see when you look at a screen for HDTV. The idea was to show as much as possible that the eyes could register but to keep the processing and bandwidths down by eliminating unimportant bits of the screen. They spent a lot of time and money working out that 16:9 is the optimum shape. So wide screen is better. 1440 by 900 on an LCD screen at 60 hz needs roughly 16% more resources than 1024 by 768 by 75hz so a good 2ms lcd screen makes sense. SAMSUNG do a reasonable 19 inch one 906BW . 2ms is the sort of refresh rate, manufactures can be very creative when measuring this 2ms is very good, 25 ms is very bad for Trainz but fine for word processing. Stick to major brand names in monitors, even HP and the reviewers end up with different numbers one HP monitor came up as 15-25 ms when measured. There are only about three major LCD manufacturers, Samsung and I think LG are two, practically every one else is a relabel so read more expensive.

If you increase the screen size above 1440 by 900 accept your frames per second will decrease.

Trainz can use a maximum of 2 gigs of memory, 32 bit XP can use roughly 2.7 gigs of memory, anything else is wasted, the addresses are used for other hardware bits so 3 gigs memory is good. XP will hide in the memory above the 2 gig mark. These days most memory modules are 1 gig so you may end up with 4 gigs.

Having said that there is a way that a new version of Trainz could access 4 gigs of memory under Vista 64 bit in the future so a motherboard that can be expanded to 8 gigs might be sensible.

The way that the chips are made makes a difference. The closer the components are the shorter the distance the electrons have to travel. So in general 45 nm fabrication is better than 90 nm fabrication. It's trickier to build but will give off less heat (the limiting factor on all computers) so it can have a higher refresh rate. You can get more cpus out of the same silicon wafer as well so its cheaper to make as well.

AMD made some good designs but the dual core and the new 45 nm cpus from Intel run cooler and faster, see Tomshardware .com. Here you have to make some guesses but a good motherboard that takes a dual today will probably take a quad in the future should Trainz start to run on more than one core. 45 nm parts should be more easily overclocked if you wish to go this route. Look for specialist gaming boards with extra cooling on the northbridge etc its not only the cpu that gets hotter when you over clock.

Technically DDR3 main memory can be faster than DDR2. This is very new and at the moment much more expensive than DDR2. You will need to look closely at the benefits and costs here at the moment.

On video memory Maddy came up with a figure of 700 mb in textures for one scene, for optimum performance 700 mb of memory would be nice. ATI's new cards are built on 55 nm as against 65 nm for the nVidea cards so they run cooler however the nVidia cards are faster at the moment. nVidia have just released the 8800 GT with 512 mb of memory, look for a new card from them with more memory shortly.

The case will be important, cooling is important, overclocking means more heat so more noise for cooling fans. Quiet cases that cool well are not the cheapest, many come with a very reasonable power supply built in.

That should be enough to think about for the moment.

Note nVidia in expected to bring out a new video card with more the 512 mb of memory and Intel is about to announce their new 45 nm cpus. Buying this week will get you lower performance products.

Cheerio John

GP_38-2
December 30th, 2007, 08:28 PM
Motherboard tier three company, either use Intel or ASUS for better Windows drivers and updates.
Video card SLI as I understand it needs the game to be able to use it otherwise it doesn't buy anything. As far as I know there are no special drivers for Trainz. You have however just raised the power supply and cooling requirements.
Processor as far as I am aware Trainz runs on a single core so the advantage of quad cores would be three cores adding extra heat? The program needs to be rewritten to use multiple cores. A dual core would let Traniz run on one and the operating system on the other.
Hard drive Trainz doesn't bottleneck on hard drives so why have four expensive ones instead of one or two more normal drives when Trainz can't tell the difference?
Overclocking yes it can be done but there are stability issues and heat issues with four core. Dual cores over clock better and the new 45 nm cpus over clock even better if you are into over clocking.
A physics card isn't used by Trainz so it would just add to the heat inside which makes the machine more unstable.
Case recommendation is a bit loose especially as with all the things you've put in it it's going to need a lot of cooling. I'd actually go and dig at tomshardware on cases. An Antec P190 might fit the bill here with the rest of what you are recommending.
You haven't mentioned an operating system choice by the way. TC is being run under Wine , XP 64 bit XP, vista, 64 bit vista.
Cheerio John
You know, usually I can't agree with John (just personal experience differences) but for once I can agree 100%. That is one overpriced, over heated, over bloated computer. In my notes the memory company is also a tier 2 company (at the least). Kingston, or even better Crucial is the best to buy when it comes to RAM.

Placer Railway, Hey good to see you back, long time no see :D (oh I've been slacking off on my D&S projects :P)
Great performance, great price
Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131073
CPU (Processor): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115028
Video Card (only need one):
Great performance for the price, gives the 8800 GTX a run for it's money
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143119
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143093
or if you're up to the extra money, but there is very very little difference in performance
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143107
RAM (a couple choices here):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104001
or 2 sets of:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148076
Hard Drives (a pair of these in RAID 1): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136053
Power supply (PSU):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371001
Case, honestly it's up to you, but from personal experiance:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129017
DVD Drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106072
Antec makes solid affordable cases.
As far as an OS, as many problems as Vista has it's really the most user friendly way to go. Vista Home Premium or even basic Home is enough for most people.

Lo_Poly: This has become obvious in the numerous posts, you go after the flashiest, "uber recommended" components by the "majority". That may or may not actually be of any use. One must be careful in recommending computer parts, especially to someone that's new to custom computer building. I will back John up on his comments he is 100% correct.

Again I agree with John, I've seen rumors on the 45nm core Intel's and from early reviews they are well worth the money (and wait)

johnwhelan
December 31st, 2007, 09:38 AM
Don't listen to me, my advice is crap!

No what you've done is raised some interesting issues. The motherboard recommended is probably based on a web site review which hasn't benchmarked it with Trainz. Trainz because of the way it works uses bits of the machine to the limit in an non mainstream way. What this means is you need exceptionally solid Windows drivers and they take time and money to develop.

The dual SLI video card with the correct program does give the best performance, unfortunately as far as I can see Trainz doesn't work that way at the moment. There is an ATI version that handles upto four video cards that may work better in DirectX 10 but Trainz doesn't use directX 10 as far as I know at the moment.

Place the phrase "I would propose" at the beginning of your list and it becomes a useful discussion document.

The other thing to take into account is that computers are not simply one or zero. They work by the presence or absence of electrons. Memory chips for example in theory either have about zero or 10,000 electrons zero is zero, 10,000 is one. Warm them up and the electrons get excited and some shoot off in odd places so now you are into probablility there are probably zero or 10,000 electrons. What happens if the cell leaks a bit and you end up with 5,000 is it a one or a zero?

Hard disk drives are the same, they are analog magnetic, warm a magnet up and it loses magnetism, the field isn't so strong. What happens if you have a voltage drop when writing to the hard drive and the voltage isn't high enough to flip the bit?

I tend to be a bit cautious but that's just my personality. I make decisions based on minimum risk. Others are more adventurous and will be happier overclocking. Understanding why something is said can make it easier to weight the suggestion.

Cheerio John

Lo_Poly
December 31st, 2007, 12:35 PM
No what you've done is raised some interesting issues. The motherboard recommended is probably based on a web site review which hasn't benchmarked it with Trainz. Trainz because of the way it works uses bits of the machine to the limit in an non mainstream way. What this means is you need exceptionally solid Windows drivers and they take time and money to develop.
The Foxconn mobo I had recommended had been reviewed on Tom's Hardware (technically twice). http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/10/31/x38_comparison_part_1/page5.html http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/26/x38_comparison_part2/page4.html


The dual SLI video card with the correct program does give the best performance, unfortunately as far as I can see Trainz doesn't work that way at the moment. There is an ATI version that handles upto four video cards that may work better in DirectX 10 but Trainz doesn't use directX 10 as far as I know at the moment.

Place the phrase "I would propose" at the beginning of your list and it becomes a useful discussion document.

The other thing to take into account is that computers are not simply one or zero. They work by the presence or absence of electrons. Memory chips for example in theory either have about zero or 10,000 electrons zero is zero, 10,000 is one. Warm them up and the electrons get excited and some shoot off in odd places so now you are into probablility there are probably zero or 10,000 electrons. What happens if the cell leaks a bit and you end up with 5,000 is it a one or a zero?

Hard disk drives are the same, they are analog magnetic, warm a magnet up and it loses magnetism, the field isn't so strong. What happens if you have a voltage drop when writing to the hard drive and the voltage isn't high enough to flip the bit?

I tend to be a bit cautious but that's just my personality. I make decisions based on minimum risk. Others are more adventurous and will be happier overclocking. Understanding why something is said can make it easier to weight the suggestion.

Cheerio John
If you know what you are doing, you can properly overclock hardware, which can allow for a good performance increase. I was saying "overclock", because he could look into it if he wanted. With the video card SLI and the physics card, I personally like the idea of future-proofing.

But, it is true my advice is "crap", GP_38-2 was right about how overpriced, over heated, over bloated it is. I was just being honest.

GP_38-2
December 31st, 2007, 02:57 PM
There are just some companies you stay away from. Tomshardware is good but they don't test for sustained operation. Basically about 90% of Foxconn motherboards I've seen/used blow out within a year, they just don't use quality parts.
Overclocking also has 3 serious problems with it.
1. Produces more heat (and from your system you run the risk of serious heat issues)
2. Shortens the life of the component, doesn't matter what the overclock is it will shorten the life span, it's just a matter of time.
3. And this is the kicker, usually it will void the warranty, and as point 2 states when the part fries that company is gonna give you the tough-luck shoulder.


Motherboard: ABIT, ASUS (probably the best), MSI, Gigabyte

Video Card: When it comes to video cards, especially today with SLI and Crossfire 99% of the cards are build to nVidia and ATI's reference designs, so they all look the same, BUT the quality of parts they use will differ.
nVidia: nVidia, BFG (about the best), XFX, EVGA, MSI, ASUS
ATi: ATI, Visiontek (IMO the best, Full Lifetime Warranties), GeCube

CPU (processor): don't have much of a choice here either Intel or AMD.

Sound: Onboard sound is ok, but certain chipsets have an effect on performance, for add-on cards Creative is a good company. Support ranges back to.........very OLD stuff.

Hard Drives: Western Digital, Seagate, Maxtor. I personally find Seagate and Western Digital to produce the lasting components.

Power Supply: Thermaltake, Silverstone, Antec. Antec is affordable and has good ratings through most of their line (the occasional pickle like any company).

RAM: Corsair, Kingston, Crucial. Corsair is ok, but I've had a higher failer rate with them. Kingston, no matter the line has been rock solid for many years. But above all the others is Crucial, solid parts, and as of now quite affordable

CD/DVD: Benq, Lite-on, Sony, all make good CD/DVD units. But I've never had one fail from any company.

Cases: Mmm now this is a sticky one, a lot of cases look good, but have poor build quality.
In-Win, Thermaltake, Antec, Coolmaster, Lian-Li, all make good cases, Lian-Li's cases are very expensive though (aluminum).

Lo_Poly
January 1st, 2008, 05:23 AM
There are just some companies you stay away from. Tomshardware is good but they don't test for sustained operation. Basically about 90% of Foxconn motherboards I've seen/used blow out within a year, they just don't use quality parts.

I'll admit I've heard the case of Foxconn mobos having short lifetimes (http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/3653/capacitorfh5.jpg), I just really liked the idea of both DDR2 and 3 memory compatibility. :confused:

Asus is very good and my favorite motherboard manufacturer.

Here's something to try out.
Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131218

Here's an 8800GT from Asus. Put 2 in SLI. If you know what you're doing, you can overclock them to 700Mhz like the Gigabyte model. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121221

GP_38-2
January 1st, 2008, 02:45 PM
Compatibility's worth squat if the motherboard dies. If you want junk parts buy a pre-made, they use the Foxconn crap in most pre-mades out there. No reason spend extra money to build it yourself.

ASUS, ABIT, Gigabyte, and MSI all make good motherboards. I've never had an issue with any of their boards. Any board from them is top-notch.

What is your fascination with SLI? As stated it WON'T see any performance increase with Trainz. Nor will Overclocking. It's ill-advised and can have some nasty consiquences.
A good 8800 GTS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143119 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143119)
8800 GTX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143093 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143093)
or if you're up to the extra money, but there is very very little difference in performance the 8800 Ultra
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143107 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143107)
Will do much better than any 8800 GT, SLI or not.

Ok was holding out on this one, but what the heck it's only $300, but it is a top-notch board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131074

johnwhelan
January 1st, 2008, 04:37 PM
Merely to demonstrate that GP_38-2 and I don't always say the same thing I'll put forward a completely different manufacturer's motherboard. The Intel DX38BT, nice solid board but unfortunately it doesn't support a floppy disk drive which kind of demonstrates you need to know the requirements.

Do you need a floppy disk drive?

Cheerio John

Lo_Poly
January 1st, 2008, 06:17 PM
What is your fascination with SLI? As stated it WON'T see any performance increase with Trainz. Nor will Overclocking. It's ill-advised and can have some nasty consiquences.
I highly doubt he just plays Trainz, and that's it. He probably might have more graphics and resource intensive games and programs, thus I am suggesting SLI because there are many programs out there that can take advantage of it, and there is the possibility that he owns several. JET is outdated. It can't even make use of more than 1 CPU core.

And while I was saying that overclocking is up to him, it can save hundreds of dollars. There's the Q6600, 2.4Ghz and comes in at 275 USD. There's also the Q6700, 2.6Ghz, and comes in at 539 USD. Whether he decides to go for the Q6600 and overclock, not overclock, or go for the Q6700, or go for a completely different processor is up to him. I understand there are risks associated with it. There are many "risk-takers" out there who chose to over clock their hardware, and then there are the ones who are "cautious" who leave it as-is. I am assuming you are the cautious type GP_38-2. :) I am simply putting the idea on the dinner table, not forcing it onto his plate!

placer_railway, what are you're most commonly used apps on your current computer, and ones that you would like to use?


And just like I said a second ago, me, and everyone else is just putting ideas on the table. He is the one who choses what to put on his plate.

GP_38-2
January 1st, 2008, 06:23 PM
Merely to demonstrate that GP_38-2 and I don't always say the same thing I'll put forward a completely different manufacturer's motherboard. The Intel DX38BT, nice solid board but unfortunately it doesn't support a floppy disk drive which kind of demonstrates you need to know the requirements.

Do you need a floppy disk drive?

Cheerio John

I wouldn't say that's an example of where we don't see eye-to-eye.
I will agree the DX38BT is a solid board. Yes it is short floppy support, but as you said that comes down to what Placer would need.

Sourdough
January 1st, 2008, 06:37 PM
...as you said that comes down to what Placer would need.
...and I imagine that it will be a challenge to sort out what components would be best since this thread has kinda morphed into a who knows best tug of war....:cool:

placer_railway
January 1st, 2008, 10:34 PM
hey all

here is a more simplified request

i want to run trainz 2006

i have huge amounts of content
severial uber detailed routes

i want the best frame rates i can get for the money

i only play trainz and sometimes rollercoaster tycoon 3
so short of trainz forum and downloading music from time to time

i mainly work on route building and running trains

old puter went through a lot of power supplies

i want a dual core fast one for only trainz
i want faster video card (had nvidia 6600 card)
4gb hd inside
the best extrenal hd to store only trainz stuff with lots of room to add more content
maximum ram for fastest frame rates what is max or is there TOO MUCH ram?
need dvd cd rw burner drive
wireless network
descent to better sound card
everthing else is fluff
all for train 2006
but want trainz classic so i need to run that too

hope that makes it more clear
thanks john

GP_38-2
January 1st, 2008, 11:37 PM
still need that floppy drive?

If you need a floppy drive
Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131073 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131073)
CPU (Processor): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115028 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115028)
Video Card (only need one):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143093 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143093)
Huge difference in price, little difference in performance
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143107 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143107)
RAM (a couple choices here):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820104001 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104001)
or 2 sets of:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148076 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148076)
Hard Drives (a pair of these in RAID 1): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136053 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136053)
Power supply (PSU):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371001 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371001)
Case, honestly it's up to you, but from personal experiance:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129017 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129017)
Sound Card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102006
Wireless adapter:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124069
DVD Drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106072 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106072)
Antec makes solid affordable cases.
If you happen to prefer AMD
Motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131593
CPU (Processor):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103191
Video Card (only need one):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143093 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143093)
again if you're up to the extra money, but there is very little difference in performance
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143107 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143107)
RAM (a couple choices here):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820104001 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104001)
or 2 sets of:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148076 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148076)
Hard Drives (a pair of these in RAID 1): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136053 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136053)
Power supply (PSU):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371001 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371001)
Case, honestly it's up to you, but from personal experiance:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129017 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129017)
Sound Card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102006
Wireless adapter:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124069
DVD Drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106072 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106072)
Antec makes solid affordable cases.For external backup? Well this should hold you for a while:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136170

There's really no such thing as too much RAM, however 32-bit Windows XP (or 32-bit Vista) can only address 3.5GB even if you have 4GB physically installed. On the other hand 64-bit Vista is fine with 4GB of RAM.

basically if you build the computer to handle TRS2006 it will handle TC just fine. In fact TC will most likely run a bit faster than TRS2006 would.

John: Not disagreeing with you, the DX38 is a fine board, but for expandability sake (SLI) it's just not the board (wouldn't mind it if ATI had a top card to compete with the 8800 GTX/Ultra though)

Euphod
January 2nd, 2008, 02:31 AM
My system specs are below, I run 2006 and TC very pleasantly:

System Manufacturer: Euphod Heavy Industries, INC.;)
Case: ThermalTake Tsunami Dream
Operating System: Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2
System Motherboard Model: Asus P5K Deluxe
BIOS Date: 05/25/07 15:34:29 Ver: 08.00.12
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E6850 @ 3.00GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 2048MB RAM
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS
Chip type: GeForce 8800 GTS
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Display Memory: 640.0 MB
Current Mode: 1600 x 1200 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster 204B
Monitor Max Res: 1600,1200
Sound Device Description: SB X-Fi Audio [EC00]
Disk Drive: C:
Free Space: 184.1 GB
Total Space: 238.5 GB
Model: ST3250410AS
Disk Drive: G:
Free Space: 181.6 GB
Total Space: 238.5 GB
Model: ST3250410AS
DVD Drive: D:Model: SONY DVD RW DRU-810A SCSI CdRom Device
CdROM Drive: E:Model: Memorex 52MAXX 2452AJ SCSI CdRom Device
Generic Floppy Disk

Of course, someone will be along shortly to insist this is NOT my system, and will tell you what system I really have....that being the nature of these forums. I can't wait to see what system I really have!:D


Ed

john259
January 2nd, 2008, 08:07 AM
Love 'em or hate 'em, either way I think it would be worth spending an hour or so on the Dell web site costing up a top of the range XPS with the all the best customisation options just see what comes out and what it all costs.

For anyone reading this thread who isn't an expert there's also a lot of useful background information about hardware devices on the Dell site which is worth reading. For additional explanations of current computer jargon Wikipedia is a good place to start.

John
ps John I can't wait to see the completed D&SNGRR - judging by your earlier screenshots it will be a true masterpiece!

psycho_aussie
January 2nd, 2008, 08:23 AM
Ed, I could say that you have a "dinosaur" computer, based on a Pentium 200 MMX, but I doubt that would have the room on the hard drive to install Trainz, let alone run it...

As another point of reference, my system is (custom-built of course):

Case: Thermaltake Shark
Operating System: Vista Ultimate x64/XP Pro SP2 (I dual-boot)
System Motherboard Model: ASUS M2R32-MVP
BIOS Date: 07/13/07 Ver: 0906
Processor: AMD Athlon64 X2 5200+ (2.6GHz)
Memory: 4GB PNY PC-6400 (800MHz) DDR2
Card name: Hightech Radeon HD2600 XT IceQ Turbo
Chip type: ATI Radeon HD2600 XT
DAC type: Internal DAC
Display Memory: 512MB GDDR3
Current Mode: 1440 x 900 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: LG L194WT LCD
Monitor Max Res: 1440 x 900
Sound Device Description: ADI 1988A HD Audio
Hard Disk Drive: Western Digital SATA-II 160GB (C:/D:), WD SATA-II 250GB (E:/F:), WD SATA-II 320GB (G:/H:), WD SATA-II 250GB (I:)
DVD Drive: LG 18x GSA-H44N IDE DVD-RW
Floppy Drive: Generic Floppy Drive

Chris

john259
January 2nd, 2008, 08:46 AM
I tracked down a photograph of the control panel of Ed's computer (http://www.computer-museum.ru/images/frgnhist/pult_elliott.jpg)... :) John :)

johnwhelan
January 2nd, 2008, 09:23 AM
hey all

here is a more simplified request

i want to run trainz 2006

i have huge amounts of content
severial uber detailed routes

i want the best frame rates i can get for the money

i only play trainz and sometimes rollercoaster tycoon 3
so short of trainz forum and downloading music from time to time

i mainly work on route building and running trains

old puter went through a lot of power supplies

i want a dual core fast one for only trainz
i want faster video card (had nvidia 6600 card)
4gb hd inside
the best extrenal hd to store only trainz stuff with lots of room to add more content
maximum ram for fastest frame rates what is max or is there TOO MUCH ram?
need dvd cd rw burner drive
wireless network
descent to better sound card
everthing else is fluff
all for train 2006
but want trainz classic so i need to run that too

hope that makes it more clear
thanks john

So my personal view is basically I'd suggest holding back for a couple of weeks until the new 45 nm Intel cpus are out. I'd go dual core about the third fastest Intel have, that's fast enough and the price performance is a lot better. One of the high end ASUS motherboards, that will take 8 gigs of memory, ideally ddr2 memory for price reasons this week, about 4 gigs, personally I'd go 64 bit Vista but that one is open to discussion since 32 bit XP is a little faster but not so future proof. nVidia 8800 GT 512 Mb video card but accept that nVidia will have one with more memory out shortly or another PCI 2.0 viable solution would be an ATI HD 3870. A little cheaper still with good performance that maybe enough. I currently run an 850 XT PE and I'm reasonably happy with the performance the 3870 is more powerful even if it doesn't quite hit the 8800 GT level. If it isn't then you can add in a second one with crossfire. Perhaps some one can comment if Trainz works well with crossfire.

A disscusion of crossfire is here.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2858&p=3

ASUS P5E3 Deluxe/WiFi-AP LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131218) but I'd probably start with 2 gigs of ddr3 memory and add in more later when the price drops. DDR3 currently is around $250 per gig, ddr2 $40, in theory DDR3 should be cheaper to manufacture so the price should drop quite quickly.

Case / power supply probably Antec Sonata Plus 550 Black/ Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 550W Power Supply. 550 watts should give you enough power for two 3870 video cards and the Sonata's are a nice quiet case with lots of cooling. There are better cases with more powerful power supplies but the price mounts quite quickly above this level. Tomshardware.com will have comparable cases. The Sonata with a 500 watt power supply which can handle a single video card is a fair bit cheaper.

Cheerio John

WileeCoyote
January 2nd, 2008, 10:27 AM
I tracked down a photograph of the control panel of Ed's computer (http://www.computer-museum.ru/images/frgnhist/pult_elliott.jpg)... :) John :)

So that is where my ACME PC went...

WileeCoyote:D