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View Full Version : So how come I can only download my free-ware as payware in TRS19



Robert3a0
December 15th, 2018, 02:32 AM
I am the creator of the Cornish Mainline and Branches Route submitted as freeware for TANE and distributed by N3V. However, as an early TRS19 Early access person, the latest update has the Cornish Mainline and Branches Route as a download, but I can only access the Route as Pay-ware. That was never what I intended! If N3V wish to use the Cornish Mainline and Branches Route as pay-ware then I revoke all previous permissions I granted N3V for use of this route'

shaneturner12
December 15th, 2018, 03:21 AM
It's likely to be because of it being a built-in route in TRS19 (see Tony's latest thread regarding RC1).

You would probably have to contact Helpdesk though regarding permissions unless Tony can sort it based on this thread.

Shane

SailorDan
December 15th, 2018, 03:55 AM
If N3V wish to use the Cornish Mainline and Branches Route as pay-ware then I revoke all previous permissions I granted N3V for use of this route'
If it has been included under your user ID then you can obsolete the built-in version by uploading the original version with the version number incremented.

Robert3a0
December 15th, 2018, 04:22 AM
It's likely to be because of it being a built-in route in TRS19 (see Tony's latest thread regarding RC1).

You would probably have to contact Helpdesk though regarding permissions unless Tony can sort it based on this thread.

Shane Hi Shane, I am already paying for TRS 19. The route, plus a few others, came through as downloads today, but I cannot access them as freeware.

shaneturner12
December 15th, 2018, 04:29 AM
I suspect that's due to N3V now classing them as built-in/DLC (which usually means it's subject to N3V's DRM system). Are you able to access previous versions of that route as freeware?

Shane

stagecoach
December 15th, 2018, 05:10 AM
In Tane this route is still available to download. It is more than likely that it has been updated to TRS19 standards and is a free download to TRS19 owners via DLC. If you update the route and upload a newer version it will still be freeware.

philskene
December 15th, 2018, 05:12 AM
Hi Bob --

I'm a bit confused. You uploaded the route to the Download Station? Was it for T:ANE or TRS19? If it was just for T:ANE then someone has done considerable work to bring it up to TRS19 standards -- the new TRS19 track, PBR textures, TurfFX, ... .

If you did upload it to the DLS (either as T:ANE or TRS19) did you read the Terms and Conditions? If you did you will find that you acknowledged that N3V could do almost anything they wanted with your content. The same applies to all of us.

Phil

dangavel
December 15th, 2018, 05:32 AM
Hi Bob --

I'm a bit confused. You uploaded the route to the Download Station? Was it for T:ANE or TRS19? If it was just for T:ANE then someone has done considerable work to bring it up to TRS19 standards -- the new TRS19 track, PBR textures, TurfFX, ... .

If you did upload it to the DLS (either as T:ANE or TRS19) did you read the Terms and Conditions? If you did you will find that you acknowledged that N3V could do almost anything they wanted with your content. The same applies to all of us.

Phil
I find it hard to believe that they didn’t even consult with Bob before they decided to co opt his route, that is incredibly rude and shows how little they regard his wishes , in that case if this is the way they communicate with their contributors they will never get any route I make uploaded onto the DLS. I can now see why people make their routes available via their own websites. I dont intend to spend years of my life creating an item that might be appropriated for their own purposes, especially since their troubleshooting for any issues I’ve ever had has been pretty non existent

grazlash
December 15th, 2018, 06:44 AM
There is also the thing where you can now clone the payware routes and edit them. Bob's Cornish route was supplied through the DLC system as a freebie in T:ANE, so naturally when TRS19 came along with TANE DLC available, the Cornish route was lumped in with that. Its still editable, so there really is not much to see here. Any problem I've ever had has been promptly attended to through the bug reporting system and yes, in the Ts&Cs N3V can do whatever they like with stuff posted to the DLS.
cheers
Graeme

clam1952
December 15th, 2018, 07:45 AM
I am the creator of the Cornish Mainline and Branches Route submitted as freeware for TANE and distributed by N3V. However, as an early TRS19 Early access person, the latest update has the Cornish Mainline and Branches Route as a download, but I can only access the Route as Pay-ware. That was never what I intended! If N3V wish to use the Cornish Mainline and Branches Route as pay-ware then I revoke all previous permissions I granted N3V for use of this route'


Firstly it is NOT payware it is labelled as Builtin, big difference. It is also labelled as Builtin in TANE if you downloaded the free version via the DLC system.
Secondly the First Version either from the DLS or from the Store https://store.trainzportal.com/collections/routes/products/trainz-route-cornish-mainline-branches cost zero is still available, the two versions have different kuids and are both installed here.

The DLS version is still on the DLS, the updated for TRS19 version being auto downloaded is labelled as Builtin as was the "free" version available via the DLC system which became builtin if you downloaded it free from the Online shop.
It is still free, there is no charge for it.
Builtins and Payware can now be edited in TRS19 so there isn't a problem other than what appears to be a breakdown in communication.

It's been known ever since TRS19 was announced that your Cornwall Route was to be included, it's on the Web site blurb the Newsletters and from reports during testing and it was already a builtin anyway in TANE for those of us who got it via the Store.

Robert3a0
December 15th, 2018, 03:48 PM
I find it hard to believe that they didn’t even consult with Bob before they decided to co opt his route, that is incredibly rude and shows how little they regard his wishes , in that case if this is the way they communicate with their contributors they will never get any route I make uploaded onto the DLS. I can now see why people make their routes available via their own websites. I dont intend to spend years of my life creating an item that might be appropriated for their own purposes, especially since their troubleshooting for any issues I’ve ever had has been pretty non existent N3V did ask me if they could release the Route in TRS19, to which I agreed.

Robert3a0
December 15th, 2018, 03:51 PM
Firstly it is NOT payware it is labelled as Builtin, big difference. It is also labelled as Builtin in TANE if you downloaded the free version via the DLC system.
Secondly the First Version either from the DLS or from the Store https://store.trainzportal.com/collections/routes/products/trainz-route-cornish-mainline-branches cost zero is still available, the two versions have different kuids and are both installed here.

The DLS version is still on the DLS, the updated for TRS19 version being auto downloaded is labelled as Builtin as was the "free" version available via the DLC system which became builtin if you downloaded it free from the Online shop.
It is still free, there is no charge for it.
Builtins and Payware can now be edited in TRS19 so there isn't a problem other than what appears to be a breakdown in communication.

It's been known ever since TRS19 was announced that your Cornwall Route was to be included, it's on the Web site blurb the Newsletters and from reports during testing and it was already a builtin anyway in TANE for those of us who got it via the Store. Thanks CLAM, I knew all that, I gave permission for N3V to use the Route in TRS19 early this year.

Robert3a0
December 15th, 2018, 03:56 PM
I think I have found the problem; my version of TRS19 is stuck on build 96000 and I can't work out how to update it. Apparently I can update by using "TRS19" stream; but what is "TRS19" stream?

hiawathamr
December 15th, 2018, 04:07 PM
I think I have found the problem; my version of TRS19 is stuck on build 96000 and I can't work out how to update it. Apparently I can update by using "TRS19" stream; but what is "TRS19" stream?


I been using the beta stream for TRS19 - I don't know if its still available or not (if it is, then use that and update the heck out of TRS19 until there are no more updates).
Another stream to try is the early access stream and again, update the heck out of heck out of TRS19 until there are no more updates.

Peace

pware
December 15th, 2018, 04:13 PM
Might be easier to wait until the official release when your build will get the update automatically.

LouP73
December 15th, 2018, 04:28 PM
It's all about the money these days, I guess I'm old.

LouP

philskene
December 15th, 2018, 05:21 PM
One comment in this thread:

"I can now see why people make their routes available via their own websites."

I have a slightly different view. I construct layouts that use content that comes from the Download Station, which means that many extremely talented content creators were prepared to share their content with the likes of me. When I'm constructing a layout I'm very aware that all that I'm doing is standing on the shoulders of giants (Stephen Hawkings, 2002?).

So rather than use an external site I'm more than happy to share with the whole Trainz community and upload to the Download Station, even if it means signing an agreement that gives N3V the permission to use it as they see fit. At least it doesn't mean that they can break into my house, torture my dog and sell my children into slavery, which some other software agreements seem to.

pware
December 15th, 2018, 05:30 PM
... standing on the shoulders of giants (Stephen Hawkings, 2002?).

Most famously used by Isaac Newton in 1675 but its origins can be traced back to the 12th century. It is a sentiment that I agree with and one reason why I will not post my work on 3rd party sites.

shaneturner12
December 15th, 2018, 05:38 PM
I think I have found the problem; my version of TRS19 is stuck on build 96000 and I can't work out how to update it. Apparently I can update by using "TRS19" stream; but what is "TRS19" stream?



I might be able to assist you with that.

Have you entered your username and password on the Internet tab in Trainz Settings? If you have, click the Install tab, then Check for Updates.

The patch process should then start - if it doesn't, you can check what stream it's on by clicking Change Update Stream and following it through until the final box where the stream is mentioned (and a change stream button if it's not the TRS19 stream).

Shane

stagecoach
December 15th, 2018, 05:45 PM
I think I have found the problem; my version of TRS19 is stuck on build 96000 and I can't work out how to update it. Apparently I can update by using "TRS19" stream; but what is "TRS19" stream?



Launch trainz and open settings and install. select change update stream. Click next and next again. At the bottom it says change stream. Click on it and you can select the download stream TRS19 Beta which will update to the latest beta version 98510 after relaunch.

dangavel
December 15th, 2018, 07:05 PM
N3V did ask me if they could release the Route in TRS19, to which I agreed.

my bad, i must brush up on my comprehension skills. I thought they just did it without consultation, I grovelingly apologize to the NV3 panjandrum's and take back what I said :-)

Robert3a0
December 15th, 2018, 07:12 PM
I might be able to assist you with that.

Have you entered your username and password on the Internet tab in Trainz Settings? If you have, click the Install tab, then Check for Updates.
The patch process should then start - if it doesn't, you can check what stream it's on by clicking Change Update Stream and following it through until the final box where the stream is mentioned (and a change stream button if it's not the TRS19 stream).

ShaneThanks Shane, I have already done all of that - all I get is 'No update is for Trainz is available at the current time'.
Regards
Bob

Robert3a0
December 15th, 2018, 07:15 PM
Thanks to Shane, all is fixed and TRS19 is now happily patching. Thank you all for your assistance. Very much appreciated.
Regards
Bob

dangavel
December 15th, 2018, 07:18 PM
One comment in this thread:

"I can now see why people make their routes available via their own websites."

I have a slightly different view. I construct layouts that use content that comes from the Download Station, which means that many extremely talented content creators were prepared to share their content with the likes of me. When I'm constructing a layout I'm very aware that all that I'm doing is standing on the shoulders of giants (Stephen Hawkings, 2002?).

So rather than use an external site I'm more than happy to share with the whole Trainz community and upload to the Download Station, even if it means signing an agreement that gives N3V the permission to use it as they see fit. At least it doesn't mean that they can break into my house, torture my dog and sell my children into slavery, which some other software agreements seem to.

I misunderstood the situation, i thought they just made Bobs route as part of the bundle without consulting him, my fault for jumping to conclusions. I'm all for sharing everything for free and the route i am building is intended to be shared with the community. However, I think many of those who have created items for us to use are not happy for NV3 to use the items just as they wish , I know for a fact that Ben Dorsey didn't want any of his stuff to be payware as he told me so many times.

However, I would never want a route I made ( highly unlikely nV3 would want it anyway ) to be bundled up as part of the product because of all these issues with items being seen as payware, I can see why NV3 wants to bundle up routes as it makes their product look a better deal, but a lot of content creators do not want their items to be treated as payware and their wishes should be respected.

Same with built in items, the fact that some of them used to be freeware and now they cannot be edited anymore is so frustrating. If all of these payware issues could be sorted I would be much happier with this situation but as we see , its causing issues for people like Bob and its very annoying when items you could use previously are locked out from game .

SailorDan
December 15th, 2018, 07:35 PM
If all of these payware issues could be sorted I would be much happier with this situation but as we see , its causing issues for people like Bob and its very annoying when items you could use previously are locked out from game .

The commitment is here:
https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?149961-Skipper-s-freeware-GWR-king-George-V-has-been-updated-into-payware&p=1721142#post1721142
https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?149508-The-sepia-series&p=1716026#post1716026 (sort of)

It's up to the community to maintain the pressure so it gets done.

Tony_Hilliam
December 16th, 2018, 11:23 PM
Glad you are now updated Bob.

A few things here:
1. Bob can contact us for an editable version of the route so that the latest version can be updated and released to all TRS19 users (this is the process with other content creators)
2. Bob, and in fact anyone else, can make modifications to the route locally and upload the updated version to the DLS. These updates require the original route in order to be activated, and the original route remains intact.
3. We have mentioned many times that any freeware that has become payware is not intentionaly, but a byproduct of the update process and will be rectified over time.

Robert3a0
December 17th, 2018, 04:39 AM
Glad you are now updated Bob.

A few things here:
1. Bob can contact us for an editable version of the route so that the latest version can be updated and released to all TRS19 users (this is the process with other content creators)
2. Bob, and in fact anyone else, can make modifications to the route locally and upload the updated version to the DLS. These updates require the original route in order to be activated, and the original route remains intact.
3. We have mentioned many times that any freeware that has become payware is not intentionally, but a byproduct of the update process and will be rectified over time. Hi Tony, my bad I was uploading from the Beta Stream. Shane steered me in the right direction and all is now fixed; well done by the way on the update of the Route. I will soon have another 50 miles or so to add.
Regards
Bob

shaneturner12
December 17th, 2018, 09:08 AM
I'm glad to see your patching is now sorted (and no worries as well).

Shane