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View Full Version : "Auto-hide the menubar" and TRS19 Driver



WindWalkr
September 13th, 2018, 09:07 PM
Hi all,

I just wanted to conduct an informal poll about the "auto-hide the menubar" feature in TRS19. Please understand that this poll refers to the new Driver menu layout, and not Surveyor or other locations in the game.

My feeling that this setting has outlived its usefulness. My reasoning is as follows:

* The auto-hide mechanism allowed the game to hide the menu bar when the user was not actively interacting it (determined by whether the mouse cursor was placed near the top of the screen). This was definitely not to everybody's taste, but for some people it meant that you could reclaim the portion of your screen that was otherwise entire blocked out by the menu bar, which was fully opaque and which wasn't particularly relevant most of the time.
* In TRS19, the Driver menus no longer reside on an opaque bar, so a lot of the rationale for autohiding is gone.
* Additionally, some gameplay-relevant features (score, clock, etc.) go away along with the menu icons.
* Some other elements in the same are (eg. objectives) stick around, leaving a (imo) fairly disjoint user experience.
* The menus are now more useful, but simultaneously less intrusive than they used to be.
* While the ability to hide the whole UI is not new, it's now more prominent and (to me, at least) seems more likely useful than hiding a relatively small part of the UI.

Let me know your thoughts. Do you use the auto-hide feature? If so, do you find it useful in Driver, or are you only using it for Surveyor? If you're using it for Surveyor, do you care about the fact that it also affects Driver?

thanks,

chris

pware
September 13th, 2018, 09:51 PM
I do agree that the auto hide feature has probably outlived its usefulness. I never used it in TANE but preferred to use the F6 and F5 keys to hide the opaque command bar and other screen real estate thieves.

As for TRS19, just today I used the F6 key to give me a completely clear screen, no menus or control icons. That did make a big difference to my "viewing pleasure" in Driver despite the fact that the game-play HUDs or various sorts now have transparent backgrounds and are now far less intrusive.

I would vote to retain the ability to hide all the control and menu icons in Driver via manual intervention by the user (e.g. the F6 key or similar). Perhaps add the ability to also manually hide/show any on screen messages such as objectives as well.

My thoughts.

JCitron
September 13th, 2018, 10:27 PM
Chris,

I don't recall ever using the auto-hide feature in my 14 years of Trainzing. Should this "feature" disappear, I say I wouldn't miss it. :)

philskene
September 14th, 2018, 12:22 AM
Hi Chris --

Auto hide? I use it all the time and would would be very disappointed if it was removed.

One the same topic, what I would like is the ability to show or hide parts of the bottom HUD. For instance, hide the zombie face at the extreme left bottom or the gradient profile.

Phil

PC_Ace
September 14th, 2018, 03:04 AM
For me, it's similar to the option to auto-hide the Taskbar in Windows OS - a known, available feature that is hardly ever used or needed.
The top menu bar is less intrusive and smaller than ever before, so not highly distracting.
I prefer to remove all overlay elements at once when needed (rarely) by using the F5 function key and Ctrl+H for the junction overlays, etc.
Guess it might also depend on the amount of screen real-estate that people are throwing at Driver.
I have large, high definition monitors, with the Interface (HUD) overlays typically set to 20% in Driver. so I enjoy a large amount of uncluttered viewing area in Driver Mode.
What I do miss, however, is the discrete onscreen Trainz icon from later versions of T:ANE which allowed you to quickly add consists or load commodities to wagons, etc. during sessions.
(Would be just as happy, however, for this feature to remain less visible - but made quickly accessible from a keyboard shortcut or function key assignment).

Driver_Col
September 14th, 2018, 03:15 AM
As long as the Function (F) key operations are maintained, I am not concerned. I like a totally clear screen when driving (F5). Thx. for asking. Colin.

Yorkshire
September 14th, 2018, 04:03 AM
Auto hide? I use it all the time and would would be very disappointed if it was removed.

One the same topic, what I would like is the ability to show or hide parts of the bottom HUD. For instance, hide the zombie face at the extreme left bottom or the gradient profile.

Phil

Agree with the above +1

charlie3577
September 14th, 2018, 04:38 AM
Hi, I have used it a lot in driver back in Trainz A New Era, but with SP1 and forward it just became a mess, which was then solved in SP3, but the menu bar returned everytime I changed camera. With that said, in TRS2019 it's still glitched, and I cannot use it, but I would definitely use it if it works correctly.

clam1952
September 14th, 2018, 06:25 AM
Never used the Auto hide, I just use F5 in driver if required.

Rik81
September 14th, 2018, 07:20 AM
For me "choice" is the word. I do like the total removal with a key stroke, is it F5 or F6? (There's a clue to how often I use it, LOL). But I can see where removing all but the lower right item, my DCC throttle control. The one thing I would like is if the "clock" could be move down to the lower right somewhere. I have trouble "seeing" what time my session is at.

WindWalkr
September 15th, 2018, 02:18 AM
Hi Phil,


Auto hide? I use it all the time...

Could you go into a bit more detail about your use-case in TRS19 Driver please. For example:

* what advantages do you find from auto-hide of just the menu icons over (eg) hiding the UI as a whole.
* do you drive any sessions with Objectives, or do you always free-form?
* what do you find that the menu icons interfere with that the rest of the UI does not?

thanks,

chris

philskene
September 15th, 2018, 06:33 AM
Hi Chris --

I think we all agree that there are times, for instance when taking screen shots, that we should be able to clear all the head up displays from the screen.

But then, for actual driving, what is the essential information? I generally set up open ended sessions, see for example, the many "Chuck & Joe" sessions I've uploaded to the Download Station. In these sessions I need all the information required to drive and control the locomotive and consist. But I really don't want any more because it just clutters up the screen.

What is essential? I'd suggest all the information shown in the bottom right of the TRS19 HUD with the addition of the clock time and the gradient. An odometer would also be useful. But I think it all needs to be better grouped. For example, the critical information when driving a steam locomotive is boiler pressure, coal level and water level. Group these together. And would it be possible to use symbols instead of "CO", "WA" and "BP". It's not at all intuitive what these are. I agree that there is no longer a need to show cut-off or regulator because this is now clearly visible with the larger sliders.

For brakes the important information is the brake cylinder pressure and the flow. But again the abbreviations used are not intuitive and this makes it hard to quickly determine the values of these. Coupler stress is important but needs to be better executed. A colour based representation (red, orange, green) perhaps?

The zombie face is not needed. It's too much of a distraction. And some faces are damn ugly. The track profile is interesting but not essential if you incorporate the gradient in the right side bottom displays. My recommendation would be to allow us to toggle the face and the profile on/off, independently of each other. That is, cycle through -- no zombie and no profile; just zombie; just profile; both.

As for the auto hide. The only essential information it contains is the clock. Moving the clock (important information) down to the right bottom displays will allow you to clear the upper part of the screen completely. And I certainly prefer the T:ANE way of accessing the upper display - just move the mouse to the top of the screen and it appears. The present arrangement of moving the mouse to the top right and then hoping the displays remain visible as the mouse is moved to the left is not particularly good. Often the display disappears before I get to the left side to access "Edit Trains" and "Session Options".
_____

On a separate issue, can I suggest a numeric setting instead of those dials in "Environment". I sometimes get requests about what settings I'm using in screen shots and videos. It would be much better if I could say, for example, Red =7 rather than the very vague Red = 4:30 o'clock.
_____

Thanks for the offer to provide feedback on the HUD. It's appreciated.

Phil

ingha
September 15th, 2018, 07:14 AM
I do so agree with philskene. The auto hide is extremely useful and I also use it constantly. I agree too that the new driver faces are horrific and bear no relation to the chosen driver in Driver setup. Where I used to have Charlie driving coal trains in 1950's Brittain, I now seem to have a supermodel with a flowing blonde wig, unless Charlie has forked out for a deal of plastic surgery. Please give us back the option for UK drivers with proper uniforms and hats.

ingha

brucem56
September 15th, 2018, 07:43 AM
Instead of trying to find another choice to take away from us, how about giving some back - like the F6 & F9 options to hide/display the driver hud and other bars on an individual basis.

RJArtim
September 15th, 2018, 08:29 AM
I used the hide function in Tane, but it is a pain to use in trs19. I eventually discovered if you moved the mouse to the upper right corner it came on, however if you are not fast enough, it will disappear before you get to the menu you wanted. I keep everything small in tsr19, so there is not much of the screen being cluttered. I am with Phil and his suggestions.

brucem56
September 15th, 2018, 09:19 AM
And I certainly prefer the T:ANE way of accessing the upper display - just move the mouse to the top of the screen and it appears. The present arrangement of moving the mouse to the top right and then hoping the displays remain visible as the mouse is moved to the left is not particularly good. Often the display disappears before I get to the left side to access "Edit Trains" and "Session Options".
_____
Phil

Hmmm, I haven't had that problem at all, it works for me the same as TANE - just move my mouse pointer anywhere along the top and the menu appears.

celje
September 16th, 2018, 01:03 AM
...I agree too that the new driver faces are horrific....
ingha


I agree too and
-popup menu (window) for driver and driver face is too big and
- the most important information where the train go (navigate to st...) is to short
For me the photos of drivers are much better

steviez
September 16th, 2018, 03:41 PM
I also don't like the current driver face animations and prefer the old style. Also the display of the route across the bottom takes up a lot of room and I would prefer a return to the HUD style in the top right hand corner and showing route information and distance covered etc. Even if this was turned on or off as an option is better than what we now have been given in TS19. think of it as like a car sat-nav as used by many now. having it running along the bottom with little real information is not of much use sadly. Also can we have a return to drive so you can just let the particular train driver rather than the offering we have now where you have to name a point you have to want.

boleyd
September 16th, 2018, 03:55 PM
I agree with https://forums.auran.com/trainz/images/avatars/UK LMR Austerity 2-8-0.gif (https://forums.auran.com/trainz/member.php?123248-steviez) steviez (https://forums.auran.com/trainz/member.php?123248-steviez) ... Turn it on when needed and forget the artsy appearance. A professional concise direct info display without weird pictures is best.

RJArtim
September 16th, 2018, 04:45 PM
You can shrink or grow the size of the new hud at the bottom in the settings. Also I discovered if you put the mouse cursor in the track line part and roll your mouse wheel it will zoom in and out. So you can see more of the upcoming track or less f you like.

ARhian7
September 16th, 2018, 05:20 PM
Rarely used the auto hide as normally have forgotten about the option. Use F5 instead.

Do not mind the animated faces as have got used to them. If possible, would like to see the "currently selected driver" name showing.
The window with the "drivers", seems a bit big. Would it possible to be able to reduce/increase the window by adjusting the sides/top/bottom with the mouse?
The slider for reducing/enlarging the Ui size is great.

philskene
September 16th, 2018, 08:48 PM
OK, so here's a rather radical idea. Why not a HUD that mimics what the engineer of a real locomotive sees?

I've always admired the realism of the locomotives and cabs of JointedRail, particularly the "all glass" display used in the cab of their SD70MAC. Why not use a HUD based on the display used in this locomotive:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUMK5igfBAE&t=261s

It provides all the information that the engineer would actually see. Add a clock and an indication of the gradient and it would be perfect. Locate it in the bottom right corner. Of course it would have to be scaled in size and coloured to make it visible under all conditions. Why not? And surely it would also be possible to use a similar concept for steam locomotives?

Phil

MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS
September 17th, 2018, 08:49 AM
I like the new HUD they have implemented and I never cared about the top bar. I also do the same thing when taking screenshots which is pressing F5 to remove the HUD and hiding the junction overlays or just not removing either sometimes. That was mainly in Surveyor or when I was still building/modifying a route that I didn't remove the HUD. I think the clock being moved to the bottom right is a fine idea considering everything is already there. I also agree that the abbreviations are a horrible idea and that they need to be spelled out completely.

The drivers are just plain creepy. I agree with Phil on that SO MUCH. I liked the photos much better because it didn't feel like the driver was staring into your very soul. Although I will admit some of the driver photos were super odd too. Another idea would just be to remove them all together and replace them with maybe the locomotive's name and running number list which would work in the same way. You could have the photo of the loco in place of the driver's and we wouldn't have to deal with a limited amount of drivers anymore. When you would hover over the photo of that loco, it would tell you the name of it, like BNSF SD70ACe 1 and the running number #7809 as two examples. So all together it would be BNSF SD70ACe 1 #7809 and you could see that on the map of the route as well. When they are consisted/MUed together it would just show the first loco's name and running number. Yes it is longer name than "Alan" but when can you ever see the driver's name except in the middle of no where anyway. I have a ton of trouble trying to find their name and loco on the map because it gets lost in all the junctions and other names of drivers, industries and objects.

jbaxter1964
September 17th, 2018, 01:17 PM
Snip...

The drivers are just plain creepy. I agree with Phil on that SO MUCH. I liked the photos much better because it didn't feel like the driver was staring into your very soul. Although I will admit some of the driver photos were super odd too. Another idea would just be to remove them all together and replace them with maybe the locomotive's name and running number list which would work in the same way. You could have the photo of the loco in place of the driver's and we wouldn't have to deal with a limited amount of drivers anymore. When you would hover over the photo of that loco, it would tell you the name of it, like BNSF SD70ACe 1 and the running number #7809 as two examples. So all together it would be BNSF SD70ACe 1 #7809 and you could see that on the map of the route as well. When they are consisted/MUed together it would just show the first loco's name and running number. Yes it is longer name than "Alan" but when can you ever see the driver's name except in the middle of no where anyway. I have a ton of trouble trying to find their name and loco on the map because it gets lost in all the junctions and other names of drivers, industries and objects.

I really like this idea! I never was a big fan of the individual drivers, and the new animated drivers are very creepy. I would vote for the loco photos and running numbers to identify individual consists if there is a chance this could be changed in the future.

Driver_Col
September 17th, 2018, 02:32 PM
Just had to add my voice to the "creepy driver" objections! They really are bad. Replacing them with the loco id makes much more sense and wouldn't creep us all out! Regards. Colin.

clam1952
September 17th, 2018, 03:38 PM
Actually two of the drivers are not at all bad, the rest are straight out of Hammer Horrors though.

teddytoot
September 18th, 2018, 03:07 AM
Although I do not yet have TRS19 (be not the first to take up the new nor yet the last to cast the old aside - Chinese saying) I use the top menu bar regularly and would hate to see it disappear. Having watched some videos I agree whole heartedly with those who hate the driver images; they are ghastly. Being able to see the loco as in TS12 is MUCH more useful.

Vern
September 18th, 2018, 04:08 AM
Never used it and TBH didn't even know the feature existed. F5 and F6 does it for me.

ingha
September 19th, 2018, 01:12 AM
Auto hide the menu bar is an option anyway, so if people do not want it auto hid they shoould simply not tick the option in 'settings'. Please leave the option for those of us who like a clear screen to watch the trains.

What we do need is the return of the F6 key option to hide all the white mess at bottom screen but show the essential 'Speed, speed limit and session time', when necessary, in a small, unintrusive box at top right, as in TANE.

ingha

MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS
September 19th, 2018, 04:58 PM
I really like this idea! I never was a big fan of the individual drivers, and the new animated drivers are very creepy. I would vote for the loco photos and running numbers to identify individual consists if there is a chance this could be changed in the future.

Made its own thread for it too by the way :D.