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dalmac
September 10th, 2018, 11:37 PM
An older route works ok in Trainz 19 BUT the light is so intense it looks like there is fog all over the terrain - close in and in the mid and far distance. Everything has a washed out colour. I have fiddled with all the Video settings and nothing reduces this over supply of light. Even turning down the monitor does not help - things look darker but it still has the foggy appearance. It is most disconcerting. The map in TANE has a nice clear atmosphere close to where the train and action is and a slight foggy appearance in the far distance. In Trainz Classics there is a clear crisp atmosphere close in and in the distance.I understand the use of light is a major initiative in Trainz 19 but can it be controlled. Is there any way I can reduce the amount of bright light washing over the entire map. Eg some sort of Gamma control or whatever?Thanks.

WindWalkr
September 10th, 2018, 11:50 PM
I'd suggest having a read through of this help page:

http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/How_to_Use_Environment_Tools

Take special note of the brightness and fog density controls.

kind regards,

chris

dalmac
September 11th, 2018, 12:19 AM
Thanks for the info. I managed to reset the lighting to remove the foggy appearance. I am now attempting to familiarising myself with the other Environment controls. Thanks for your help.

Vern
September 11th, 2018, 02:09 AM
As I've said on other threads on this subject, N3V really need to look at changing the default light setting that routes load with. This is particularly so for newcomers to the programme who may not be familiar with its quirks or the existence of wiki's etc. Their first experience of launching a route and finding everything covered in a silver sheen or fog is not going to leave a favourable impression...

boleyd
September 11th, 2018, 11:12 AM
As I've said on other threads on this subject, N3V really need to look at changing the default light setting that routes load with. This is particularly so for newcomers to the programme who may not be familiar with its quirks or the existence of wiki's etc. Their first experience of launching a route and finding everything covered in a silver sheen or fog is not going to leave a favourable impression...

I agree with Vern. We now know that shadows can be more real without a total black area to represent them. However, providing a route with terrible lighting and then telling a customer to fix it is not good marketing. Bring in someone who lives in a forested area to find a proper setting. The people who set the Tree coloring, or those who set lighting and fog, are way off the mark and are after drama more than reality.

JCitron
September 11th, 2018, 11:22 AM
I agree with Vern. We now know that shadows can be more real without a total black area to represent them. However, providing a route with terrible lighting and then telling a customer to fix it is not good marketing. Bring in someone who lives in a forested area to find a proper setting. The people who set the Tree coloring, or those who set lighting and fog, are way off the mark and are after drama more than reality.

I agree as well with both of you.

How about simply base the default lighting for each route on its world origin and the calendar settings?

June and July have far different lighting up here in the Northeast USA than December. The same goes with fog and humidity with more in the mid-summer versus winter.

These are default settings of course, which can be changed at a whim by the end-user.

Is this difficult to implement? That's for N3V to figure out, but I think it would solve this lighting issue once and for all, and make for a far more realistic driving environment.

WindWalkr
September 11th, 2018, 10:57 PM
Hi guys,

The key points here are that:

1. This is an old route, not a TRS19 route.
2. We didn't provide the route, or configure the lighting.

With that in mind, all of the discussion about us providing a good default is kind of moot. That's not to say that the defaults can't be improved, but it's certainly not relevant to this particular example (and many other similar examples).

What we really needed here is to "upgrade" the existing environmental configuration in such a way that it looks nice in TRS19. That's something that we've spent a fair bit of time on, and are continuing to work on as new examples are found where the upgrade process doesn't provide ideal results. In the interim (or if you have an edge-case route which simply isn't well-suited to any kind of automated upgrade) you have the option to manually configure the lighting, including the option to simply discard the lighting that was configured on the route and reset it to TRS19 defaults.

chris

pware
September 12th, 2018, 12:52 AM
Something that may be worth considering is a means by which users can save, as an asset, their set lighting conditions - i.e. the RGB Ambient and Sun colours, fog and brightness settings for all time control points on the clock (as a group, not individually), plus the universal water RBG setting. This way they can then select and then load the lighting asset that best suits the environment for each route.

At the moment this is only possible if you set the environment values and then save the session, but the saved session is then attached to a particular route and cannot be transferred to other routes unless you know how to edit the session config.txt files.

Just an idea!

Vern
September 12th, 2018, 02:06 AM
Agreed. It is also time it was possible to adjust the dials with an accurate RGB value - even if initially this is done by just hovering over each dial to reveal the value. That way at least you can jot down the values to try in another route rather than trying to remember the visual alignment of the dials. And it should be possible to save the master environment settings at route level, not session level. While noting what Chris says, the other two sims seem to do environment and produce an acceptable lighting level regardless of how young or old the route is, without a load of faffing about. It is something that should happen seamlessly for the user. Seems a bit ambiguous to proclaim on the one hand the backward compatibility of TRS2019 then on the next state it isn't N3V's fault the old routes and textures odd appearance in the new lighting is not N3V's fault...

gch
September 12th, 2018, 03:40 AM
I agree it was the subject of one of my awesomely wonderful suggestions to N3V some 4 years ago that they chose to ignre,

I think that all og the environmental settings should be changed to a numeric setting rather than a hue or quai/random blpb from a colour chart.

Again don't know how it would be done but it would give you an amazing consistency for water, clouds, sky etc by simply pointing your red to one number, your blue to a second, your green or whatever to a number.

This would mean that an end user might design a particular water hue to a given number such as 1,1,3 or 2,3,7. and that all other users could copy those settings simply or use them as a basis for their own choices.

I know, I know, genius is its own reward and there is probably a simple reason why this can't be done but damn it, I like it.





Just noticed Vern,s comments above and the hovering number sounds like a very good idea. If it alreadt exists it just proves that you have to work so very hard with N3V to extract the bestfrom it.


I agree as well with both of you.

How about simply base the default lighting for each route on its world origin and the calendar settings?

June and July have far different lighting up here in the Northeast USA than December. The same goes with fog and humidity with more in the mid-summer versus winter.

These are default settings of course, which can be changed at a whim by the end-user.

Is this difficult to implement? That's for N3V to figure out, but I think it would solve this lighting issue once and for all, and make for a far more realistic driving environment.

WindWalkr
September 12th, 2018, 04:38 AM
Something that may be worth considering is a means by which users can save, as an asset, their set lighting conditions - i.e. the RGB Ambient and Sun colours, fog and brightness settings for all time control points on the clock (as a group, not individually), plus the universal water RBG setting. This way they can then select and then load the lighting asset that best suits the environment for each route.

At the moment this is only possible if you set the environment values and then save the session, but the saved session is then attached to a particular route and cannot be transferred to other routes unless you know how to edit the session config.txt files.

Just an idea!

This is definitely on the cards. No idea when exactly, but it will come :)

chris

boleyd
September 12th, 2018, 05:00 AM
Great. thanks for being ahead of the customers. Now if you could just fix the super bright green trees N3V uses as standards (name begins with tree). I have never seen trees like that plus white trunks of maple and oak trees. I would love to see an explanation of why those trees are closer to reality than the many customer offered varieties. Not a big deal. Just 5 minutes and bulk replace (a wonderful feature) fixes the problem.

grazlash
September 12th, 2018, 05:54 AM
Great. thanks for being ahead of the customers. Now if you could just fix the super bright green trees N3V uses as standards (name begins with tree). I have never seen trees like that plus white trunks of maple and oak trees. I would love to see an explanation of why those trees are closer to reality than the many customer offered varieties. Not a big deal. Just 5 minutes and bulk replace (a wonderful feature) fixes the problem.
Dick, most of those trees are version 3.9 and thats why later trees are better.
cheers
Graeme

JAGG
September 12th, 2018, 08:55 AM
Why the heck environment settings knobs have no numerical scale again? Is N3V so alibistic or what? Everybody has to test thousands combinations instead using proved "profiles" in form of set of numbers. There is very few users satisfied with default setting if any thought. Continuing ignorance.

brucem56
September 12th, 2018, 10:52 AM
As a senior who's hand/eye coordination isn't up to the rare high standard anymore, I find it next to impossible to adjust the dials. Fine tuning anything is out of the question, so I am stuck with defaults pretty much.

As suggested above - please consider allowing numerical input settings.

Thank you.

gch
September 12th, 2018, 05:33 PM
NOTE TO TONY.



Could you please think about this issue of the problems that Senior Citizens (and younger supporters as well, of course) suffer from. With my eyesight problems I would be really grateful for any SOFTWARE THAT USES THE LARGEST FONT POSSIBLE, does not use pastel on pastel colours and actively considers earlier suggestion about using numbers rather than hues to generate standardardised water colours.

I can keep pace because nearly all of my pleasure is in scenery design. Driving is now moving from difficult to ALMOST impossible.

Notwithstanding the fact that I am a bear with very little brain, an idiot's guide to font enhancement, variation and size would be wonderful.


Please, please give this some thought.

I would be very happy to help by collating customer comments if you are too busy to give it time at the moment

As a senior who's hand/eye coordination isn't up to the rare high standard anymore, I find it next to impossible to adjust the dials. Fine tuning anything is out of the question, so I am stuck with defaults pretty much.

As suggested above - please consider allowing numerical input settings.

Thank you.

mrjunction
September 12th, 2018, 08:25 PM
I've stated this(lighting brightness) issue from day one. I have never adjusted color in T:ane nor did I feel it was necessary. TRS 2019 is washed out. Like our sun on steroids. I imported the Eagle River route(a pat on the back for you Scratchy,SUPERB route) and it seems way more foggy when run in TRS 2019 compared to T:ane. I don't like the shadowy fog in the pines. I don't really know how else to describe this,but if you've seen it, you will know what I mean. Is it a Video card issue(or software) that make for sun and shadows during a rainstorm. Maybe I'm hoping for too much, too soon?

JCitron
September 12th, 2018, 09:30 PM
I've stated this(lighting brightness) issue from day one. I have never adjusted color in T:ane nor did I feel it was necessary. TRS 2019 is washed out. Like our sun on steroids. I imported the Eagle River route(a pat on the back for you Scratchy,SUPERB route) and it seems way more foggy when run in TRS 2019 compared to T:ane. I don't like the shadowy fog in the pines. I don't really know how else to describe this,but if you've seen it, you will know what I mean. Is it a Video card issue(or software) that make for sun and shadows during a rainstorm. Maybe I'm hoping for too much, too soon?

The sun and shadows during the rainstorm is a lighting bug and has been documented in the beta and appears not to have been addressed yet.

The shadowy fog in the pines is true to life if you live up in places such as northwestern Maine, or the Pacific Northwest, but I agree the lighting overall is a bit over the top still and needs adjustment.

jango
September 14th, 2018, 10:05 AM
I find the possibility of light management in TRS2019 excellent.
It can be very personalized and, as a creator of routes, I will use it in the various sessions.

The next screenshots are set in the "old" White Pass, with very few substitutions of groundtextures and objects. NO post processing.
The "White Pass" will be subject to secure upgrades.
Remarkable seasonal version (winter) of groundtextures.

https://s15.postimg.cc/wjxc4bg3f/wp5.jpg

https://s15.postimg.cc/yprmyom2z/wp6.jpg

https://s15.postimg.cc/8vmfmt3sr/wp7.jpg

https://s15.postimg.cc/mqkq4ry2j/wp8.jpg

https://s15.postimg.cc/rdwsuimuz/Immagine_14.jpg

https://s15.postimg.cc/oz4x9m91n/Immagine_6a.jpg

https://s15.postimg.cc/z97c8zwe3/Immagine_6.jpg

https://s15.postimg.cc/frcot4k1n/Immagine_7.jpg

https://s15.postimg.cc/g442zephn/Immagine_10.jpg

https://s15.postimg.cc/54ivnweiz/Immagine_13.jpg

JAGG
September 14th, 2018, 01:54 PM
One thing is personalization, another of same importance is ability to be shared. Why other games supports profiles for example. Why each single user of Trainz is forced to experimentate upon each route or even every single session without possibility to use shared environment setting from someone else, whose settings looks fine? That is absolutely user unfriendly and moreover step back in comparison with previous versions.

Kennilworth
September 14th, 2018, 04:31 PM
Hi

One thing that I never see mentioned with regard to routes looking too bright is the settings for the individuals monitor. My son is an enthusiastic photographer and he brought his software and hardware round to profile my monitor for me. I was amazed at how dim the screen appeared after he'd finished but the colours appear more natural to me now. It made me wonder if some of these complaints about brightness in the display are due to using the default settings for monitors which are generally too bright.

Regards

Brian

PC_Ace
September 14th, 2018, 05:16 PM
Jango - Love your new White Pass screenshots! Shows what TRS2019 is capable of producing when in a master craftsman's hands.
Like you, I remove all preset Post Processing settings and prefer to set mine manually for much more realistic results.

Kennilworth - Yes - a properly calibrated monitor is essential if one is to be serious about achieving correct lighting levels and shadow effects fidelity.

gch
September 15th, 2018, 03:07 AM
One thing is personalization, another of same importance is ability to be shared. Why other games supports profiles for example. Why each single user of Trainz is forced to experimentate upon each route or even every single session without possibility to use shared environment setting from someone else, whose settings looks fine? That is absolutely user unfriendly and moreover step back in comparison with previous versions.

ou can tell by simple observation that some of the screen shots and scenerry are sublime, bordering on wonderful. Others are, indeed, a washed out bit of nothingness.

I have tried telling our friends from N3V (Tony) that now that we are into a higher cost regime there is a much higher call upon N3V to get theses things right or logged up somewhere that we all have access to.

Still no kind of a response from N3V showing qany interest in assisting those of us with poorer eyesight. Not a big deal when you're still in your prime but if ever a piece of software might have been geared a little bit towards a slightly older market then TRS19 et al must surely be it.

I am not sure that it would take much effort to tweak it a bit and I am absolutely certain that ALL users would benefit.

Y

Lataxe
September 15th, 2018, 05:12 AM
Hi

One thing that I never see mentioned with regard to routes looking too bright is the settings for the individuals monitor. My son is an enthusiastic photographer and he brought his software and hardware round to profile my monitor for me. I was amazed at how dim the screen appeared after he'd finished but the colours appear more natural to me now. It made me wonder if some of these complaints about brightness in the display are due to using the default settings for monitors which are generally too bright.

Regards

Brian

I use a regularly-calibrated large NEC high-end monitor (obtained primarily to serve my photoshopping) and I can tell you that TS2019 still displays, as a default, insipid, washed-out and over-bright colours in screenshots.

It certainly suits those blue-sky sunny days in the snowy mountains but not much else. Even those have foliage that looks like its all been boiled to leech out the chlorophyll then put back. I'm not a fan of the super-saturated HDR style look but neither do I like scenes of the natural world that are reminiscent of faded photographic prints that have been hung in a sunny spot for 10 years.

Those who've got to grips with the lighting and colour controls of TS2019 tell us that its capable of displaying colour and tone in exactly the same way as in the default lighting of TANE. This being so, the onus is surely on N3V to supply either pre-set lighting & colour profiles that can be chosen with one-click (as in Adobe Lightroom and similar software); or to make the lighting controls far more accessible & user-friendly than they are at present.

Lataxe

mrjunction
September 15th, 2018, 07:14 PM
My monitor displays T:ane perfectly, but TRS 2019,not so much. Must be the Monitor.:hehe:

pware
September 15th, 2018, 08:22 PM
Interestingly, I seem to remember that when TANE was first released there were complaints that the scenes were "too bright" compared to TS12.

Vern
September 16th, 2018, 01:44 AM
Blaming users' monitors for the silvery default light conditions in TRS2019 is at best misdirection and at worst on a par with the company citing cat hair in the intake grilles when 1.0 TANE was burning out our GPU's and CPU's. There are at least two issues here which N3V ought to be looking at prior to full release - the standard level of lighting and a means to display the actual rgb numerical settings and to export the values for use elsewhere.

I just received my latest bank statement and with the exchange rate and currency fees I paid nearly £60 for TRS2019. This is way beyond normal PC game pricing and into the realms of premium software. As noted above by another poster, this should command premium attention by the developer and publisher, IMHO.

ARhian7
September 16th, 2018, 05:44 PM
I found it can also depend on what textures are used as to how the lighting will play too. This is especially so with my old, custom routes that were imported into trs12. A lot of texture had to be replaced in trs12, then replaced again for T:ANE and now some textures need to be replaced in TRS19. Do not know whether it will be done in TSR19 as they were only transferred over more for nostalgia reasons.

The lighting is no big deal (to me) as the need to adjust it for each route to try and get the look/feel is different for each. It is fun playing about with the lighting, ambience, etc anyway.

If I have lighting settings that I really like, screenshots are taken of these settings and these are used for reference later when/if needed. Has come in handy a couple of times.

grazlash
September 16th, 2018, 07:03 PM
I just received my latest bank statement and with the exchange rate and currency fees I paid nearly £60 for TRS2019. This is way beyond normal PC game pricing and into the realms of premium software. As noted above by another poster, this should command premium attention by the developer and publisher, IMHO.
Pricing for the game is very realistic and much cheaper than what I pay for a console game or most other PC games for that matter. (for the same price I can get the latest version of Football Manager - a spreadsheet on steroids - which includes far less an upgrade from the previous version than TS12 to T:ANE or T:ANE to TRS19)
Also by comparison with "premium" game companies, we need to remember that N3V is tiny and a tiny niche market developer at that. So, realistically any attention given to problems away from the main focus comes at a premium and goes a long way to understanding why so many great ideas from the community never seem to be implemented.
cheers
Graeme

PC_Ace
September 16th, 2018, 07:56 PM
I recall paying much more than ~US$70 for Kickstarter access to T:ANE and have had countless hours of pleasurable use of this remarkable railway simulator over 3 blissful years. T:ANE Rocks! (But TRS2019 is even better!!)
There's more control over Lighting, Environmental and Post Processing effects than we had in T:ANE. It's just the model and methods that have changed in the latest Trainz iteration.

Don't judge the lighting levels by looking at legacy routes and sessions brought over from previous versions of Trainz. They were created using a different lighting model, and use textures that often date back to the Ark.
As ARhian7 above says, it's so easy (and fun) to adjust the settings to suit your tastes/ needs. Once done, they can be saved to preserve your preferences.

Tony_Hilliam
September 17th, 2018, 02:25 AM
My monitor displays T:ane perfectly, but TRS 2019,not so much. Must be the Monitor.:hehe:
It still could be your monitor. If you have contrast and brightness set higher than normal it will brighten TANE and over-brighten TRS19.
Fact: Adjusting monitor settings will adjust the appearance.
Subjective opinion: If TANE is “bright” then your monitor settings are too high.

A further point to add - Pre-trs19 routes have widely different environment settings. There is no doubt that a brightly lit route in TANE will be brighter in Trs19. We have made some adjustments to the lighting levels of imported routes but perhaps these need further adjustments.

All that said, we’re still polishing and tweaking. What would be very useful would be for those who think the current setup is too bright to recalibrate their monitor and report back the effects. https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-calibrate-your-monitor/amp/

Also provide feedback on KSC from TANE vs the same route in trs19 as a standard example and then provide a Kuid for an overbright route.

steve123
September 17th, 2018, 03:46 AM
Yes Tony i do agree with you ,, today i changed my HDMI port around on my TV Sony Bravia's for my computers that run Trainz and there was a major difference in the contrast and brightness because i had already adjusted the first port i used over a year ago and had altered the picture to best suite Trainz,, so i think you are right on the money there,,
And i do think this is working out to be the best version TRS19 of Trainz so far,,,

JAGG
September 17th, 2018, 04:21 AM
OK, so problem with not good looking default lightning&colours is in my monitor :D I have to find proper settings of my monitor for each route by myself... And system of ingame environmental settings is excellent and fully shareable. I do know no other game requiring such a big interventions into the default visual settings, like Trainz, thats why I call for easier way to set it and share. If You would check some Screenshots of European trains thread screens for example, You would see some excellent looking ones, but there is no chance that author would be able to share the settings with You except making several screenshots and sending You this pictures via email. And still there is possibility that settings will be not replicated satisfyingly because lack of numerical scales. Are we living really in 21st century? There appeared suspiciously too much N3V advocates here after the critique, are they bribed, blind, mad or everything together?

JCitron
September 17th, 2018, 08:29 AM
OK, so problem with not good looking default lightning&colours is in my monitor :D I have to find proper settings of my monitor for each route by myself... And system of ingame environmental settings is excellent and fully shareable. I do know no other game requiring such a big interventions into the default visual settings, like Trainz, thats why I call for easier way to set it and share. If You would check some Screenshots of European trains thread screens for example, You would see some excellent looking ones, but there is no chance that author would be able to share the settings with You except making several screenshots and sending You this pictures via email. And still there is possibility that settings will be not replicated satisfyingly because lack of numerical scales. Are we living really in 21st century? There appeared suspiciously too much N3V advocates here after the critique, are they bribed, blind, mad or everything together?

We need to use one of these to adjust the color profiles for each route. :hehe:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/software/detail-page/spyder2pro_onscreen-lg.jpg

JCitron
September 17th, 2018, 08:32 AM
I use this here. A real one and not this web image and it came with an Agfa scanner we had many moons ago. It's a lot less expensive than a display calibrator:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images500x500/LaserSoft_Imaging_LA1209_35mm_Kodachrome_IT8_Calib ration_692564.jpg

Vern
September 17th, 2018, 09:08 AM
Sorry but I still think it is utter rubbish to suggest the shortfalls in TRS2019 lighting are a result of monitor settings - settings which work perfectly fine for every other piece of software that is in use on the PC. The program should be set up correctly by default and any user adjustments made at a software not hardware level... :o

JCitron
September 17th, 2018, 09:14 AM
Sorry but I still think it is utter rubbish to suggest the shortfalls in TRS2019 lighting are a result of monitor settings - settings which work perfectly fine for every other piece of software that is in use on the PC. The program should be set up correctly by default and any user adjustments made at a software not hardware level... :o

Yeah... Thus my bit of a joke there about the monitor calibrator. I got in trouble for removing one of those once because it was in my way when I was fixing someone's Mac because I couldn't see the error message on the screen. Oops!

Vern
September 17th, 2018, 03:18 PM
Yeah... Thus my bit of a joke there about the monitor calibrator. I got in trouble for removing one of those once because it was in my way when I was fixing someone's Mac because I couldn't see the error message on the screen. Oops!

Sorry John, sense of humour failure on my part... :)

Not saying it doesn't hurt to properly calibrate your monitor once in a while but it shouldn't be the primary means of changing how a game looks.

chris2001trainz2010
September 17th, 2018, 03:32 PM
Pricing for the game is very realistic and much cheaper than what I pay for a console game or most other PC games for that matter.

Uh, what? TRS19 is going for $70 base, but most Triple-A games nowadays are $60 at most, last time i checked.


Don't judge the lighting levels by looking at legacy routes and sessions brought over from previous versions of Trainz. They were created using a different lighting model, and use textures that often date back to the Ark.

Except i will judge the lighting because i've experimented with it myself and it leaves a lot to be desired.

--------

It dould be nice if we could have RGB or Hex values for changing lighting instead of dials and sliders; it'd make things a lot easier and concise.

Tony_Hilliam
September 17th, 2018, 03:39 PM
Sorry you’ve missed the point of my post (and unfortunately didn’t provide any additional details as to whether you are referring to builtin or specific 3rd party routes so I am none the wiser).

1. Calibrate your monitor once. If you want Tane to look bright, up the monitor settings. If you want trs19 to look right, calibrate to “normal “ settings (or perhaps to your individual taste).

The key point is that at any monitor settings Tane will look considerably darker than trs19. Then the textures used will either make things better or worse.

2. Expect that routes created over the past 15 years to have wildly different environment settings. Some will look great without change in trs19. Others will require resetting of the environment settings to suit your taste.

The problem here is that “brightness “ is subjective. That is why every monitor has contrast and brightness controls.

There is no way to programmatically say “make this route the perfect brightness for everyone “ (or adjust every old route to from the Jet days or the Tane engine days to look just right with the new PBR materials and lighting).

PC_Ace
September 17th, 2018, 04:10 PM
chris201trainz2010 -

Except I will judge the lighting because i've experimented with it myself and it leaves a lot to be desired.

Then it is your experimentation that leaves a lot to be desired, since it is entirely possible to set lighting levels in TRS2019 to be almost totally dark.
However, judicious alteration of the supplied controls will allow you to finesse the entire gamut of colours, contrast and brightness levels that your monitor is capable of producing.
Time to get over it and stop grizzling about things you can control and master!
Learn how to use the new environmental settings controls and apply them to your sessions - whether legacy or built-in.
Once set to your taste, then save them with that session. Done!

JAGG
September 17th, 2018, 05:57 PM
Never faced such presumption at any game developer. I've played a lot of PC games so far and never needed anything like this (maybe except slight gamma correction). I am photographer too and I never ever needed to calibrate my monitor to get good picture on the screen. N3V might understand it as I am not any demanding. So why should I need to calibrate my monitor in Trainz? I think discussion doesn't neccesarilly need to be manipulated monitor settings related way. And everybody understands that older maps with original environment settings and original textures might look differently in new gen game. It is very time consuming, but it is improvable, unfortunately upon single map or session only. Trainzers would need to have it given much simplier from the the developer's side. Requirements were mentioned several times. Be able to input setting as numerical values (RGB, percentage, 1 to 5... whatever, depends on character of particular setting) and be able to share settings with other players. Possible? YES? NO? Why? But as I understand from the previous posts: simply said, we are expected to spend 70 bugs and DIY. That is what it is going to be about. There is no concern, that content creation or route building is very time consuming, Trainzers are also forced to spend lot of time with environment settings to have it looking as it should be from the very beginning, from the developer. Is this going to really keep current users loyal and attract new customers?

chris2001trainz2010
September 17th, 2018, 09:23 PM
Sorry you’ve missed the point of my post (and unfortunately didn’t provide any additional details as to whether you are referring to builtin or specific 3rd party routes so I am none the wiser).

Expect that routes created over the past 15 years to have wildly different environment settings. Some will look great without change in trs19. Others will require resetting of the environment settings to suit your taste.

The key point is that at any monitor settings Tane will look considerably darker than trs19. Then the textures used will either make things better or worse. The problem here is that “brightness“ is subjective. That is why every monitor has contrast and brightness controls.


Then it is your experimentation that leaves a lot to be desired, since it is entirely possible to set lighting levels in TRS2019 to be almost totally dark. Time to get over it and stop grizzling about things you can control and master! Learn how to use the new environmental settings controls and apply them to your sessions - whether legacy or built-in.

I supposed i should go into more detail, then...a better way to word my complaint is that the only new lighting feature TRS19 has is the Brightness control, which is essentially just the Gamma setting from every version of Trainz before T:ANE. Saying that TRS19 has "new and revolutionary" lighting is hardly a true statement. The Brightness setting also means i have to fiddle and fuss with the enviornment settings on most 3rd Party routes (Whiteshore comes to mind: it's way too bright by default in TRS19) just to make the game look better. Granted, i do this anyway because i enjoy taking screenshots and i want them to look decent, but it's a little annoying to have to spend a large chunk of time simply making the environment settings tolerable. That's not that huge of an issue though, i will admit.

This part is what astounds me:


1. Calibrate your monitor once.

If i have to adjust my monitor settings to make a game look better, there's a problem with the game. I'm sorry, but that's something no other game has ever asked of me, which, IMO, makes it a flaw of the game, not MY monitors. "It's not TRS19's fault, it's everyone's computers!", right?

ZecMurphy
September 17th, 2018, 09:29 PM
I am photographer too and I never ever needed to calibrate my monitor to get good picture on the screen.
This is surprising to me as a photographer who has had to work extremely hard to get accurate colour/brightness on my monitors; this has also been done to ensure I have an accurate monitor for content creation.

I have two screens hooked up to my computer; one is an Asus ProArt monitor the other a relatively cheaper AOC monitor. Both show wildly different colour profiles, and brightness. The ProArt monitor is calibrated with a Spyder 4, but I can't actually calibrate the AOC to show anything close enough to that - the monitor itself literally won't show the same colours (it is also a lot brighter).

Having actually spent time researching this, for both content creation and photography (including when it comes to getting prints to match what I see on my screen), monitors are not even close to a standard. If I put Trainz onto my calibrated ProArt screen, it looks quite good. If I simply move it to the AOC screen, it immediately becomes washed out and over bright. This has proven to me just how important the colour profile and monitor brightness/colours are to the display of Trainz itself.

This coupled with using routes that have not been adjusted for the new lighting conditions within TRS19 (and they have changed, as has been pointed out several times - you will find that some routes will need to be adjusted for the *best* results) will result in an unexpected appearance in Trainz. As with moving routes from TS12 -> TANE, moving routes from TANE -> TRS19 may require at least the brightness slighter in the environment settings to be tweaked. Or simply reset to default, and start from there.

A good baseline is to have a look at the Kickstarter County 2 route. If it is appearing too bright, then you may need to adjust the brightness or contrast of your screen. On a calibrated screen, this route's environment settings are quite reasonable (they won't be perfect for every environment, but they are still a good baseline for checking this side of things).

Regards

EDIT: I have attached a quick mobile phone photo showing the main menu route in TRS19 on both of my screens, as an example of the difference seen between my calibrated monitor and effectively non calibrated monitor. It is quite a substantial difference, however as the second monitor (right hand) is rarely used for anything that is graphically important, I have not spent much time trying to match it to the main monitor (left hand monitor). However it does show that the look of Trainz is dependent on the settings of the monitors...

boleyd
September 17th, 2018, 09:59 PM
My "calibration" of my lo-end BenQ 27" monitor is to get live studio TV(via the internet) to look as clear and and real as possible. Then setup TS19-Environment to look good but never touch any settings (NVidia or BenQ) to cater to TANE/TS19. So far I am quite satisfied with live TV and TS19. Yes, I understand that every stop from studio to home was plagued with some number of compression algorithms but the skin tones remain pretty good. I remember going to the studios of KDKA Pittsburgh and seeing for the first time true HDTV but really a wide-band analog format. While the masses saw 6khz stuff the studio produced 10 to 12mhz pictures which were amazing.

In the era of TS09 there was, for some reason(?), many textures produced that were just plain terrible, that even glowed in the dim light of evening. TS10 carried some but they seem to go away in the texture stock of TS12. Of course, the DLS continued to offer them and if a system was adjusted to accommodate the bright textures the customer had some problems.

Tony_Hilliam
September 17th, 2018, 11:19 PM
If i have to adjust my monitor settings to make a game look better, there's a problem with the game.

I think there are still misunderstandings here.

If Trs19 is too bright for you, there are 3 possibilities:
1. It’s your monitor (or monitor calibration)
2. It’s the settings of the route you are viewing being brighter than the ones we’ve tested
3. It’s your preference that scenes should be darker than they are (in all cases)

We still don’t know which we are dealing with. For #2 weve made adjustments to cover the “typical “ TANE route (perhaps not sufficiently yet - further information will help).

For #1 if your monitor is correctly calibrated you can skip this step. Quite clearly if your monitor is not calibrated correctly the image will not be correct. (Eg if brightness on the monitor is ramped up, you can expect TRS19 to be brighter than at a lower monitor setting.)

Zec’s post provides some good examples of how different settings and monitors make a big difference.

JCitron
September 17th, 2018, 11:25 PM
[quote]If i have to adjust my monitor settings to make a game look better, there's a problem with the game.[\quote]

I think there are still misunderstandings here. If your monitor is correctly calibrated you can skip this step. Quite clearly if your monitor is not calibrated correctly the image will not be correct. (Eg if brightness on the monitor is ramped up, you can expect TRS19 to be brighter than at a lower monitor setting.)

Zecís post provides some good examples of how different settings and monitors make a big difference.

I have calibrated my main Trainzing display using an IT-8 chart similar to the one above. I then fired up TRS2019 and imported a route that's been passed through every Trainz version since its birth in TRS2004. The lighting was similar to T:ANE, but not quite there and in the end I had to adjust my environmental settings only slightly upwards (brighter) to get a similar lighting balance.

I will say though that the lighting is still a bit harsh with shadows being extra strong, making some details difficult to see, which I'm trying to figure out. This may be something that needs adjustment in the program code perhaps?

WindWalkr
September 17th, 2018, 11:50 PM
I will say though that the lighting is still a bit harsh with shadows being extra strong, making some details difficult to see, which I'm trying to figure out. This may be something that needs adjustment in the program code perhaps?

Typically the "shadow strength" comes down to how much your scene relies on ambient lighting, versus how much it relies on directional lighting. You can adjust both in Surveyor's Environment Settings Dialog.

hth,

chris

pware
September 18th, 2018, 12:26 AM
At home I have two different monitors (same brand, different models) attached to two different computers with different video cards - a GTX 750Ti and a GTX 1050Ti.

Using the same Win 10 background screen (an image of Skipton Castle UK that I took myself) I can easily spot significant differences in brightness and contrast levels. Both monitors are on the manufacturers default settings and both graphic card drivers are up to date.

Running exactly the same TRS19 route and session on both systems also produces noticeable differences in the brightness and contrast levels - even after I have configured the environmental settings in the session.

JCitron
September 18th, 2018, 12:27 AM
Typically the "shadow strength" comes down to how much your scene relies on ambient lighting, versus how much it relies on directional lighting. You can adjust both in Surveyor's Environment Settings Dialog.

hth,

chris

Yes this does help, thanks!

PC_Ace
September 18th, 2018, 12:37 AM
JCitron - try setting the Sunlight pane's RGB dials to a uniform darker grey whilst turning the Ambient pane RGBs to a neutral near-white.
(Seems counterintuitive to have your sunlight (directional) settings lower than the Ambient light levels, but the result is much more realistic, detailed shadows - and not the harsh contrasts you've mentioned.
Suggest experiment a little with both for various daylight time slots and then top it all off with a gentle nudge to the new brightness slider...
With care - and following that basic premise above - it is possible to achieve full, rich, vibrant colours AND subtle, clearly delineated shadows and greyscale integrity across the entire gamut - especially if your monitor has already been properly calibrated to show its full range of colour tonal capabilities.

Vern
September 18th, 2018, 04:03 AM
I'll play around with the ambient myself, later, but if this combined with the dark grey for sunlight makes things more realistic, would again stress N3V need to consider making this the default. Still no comment from them about a more accurate means of inputting or at least viewing the RGB values and possibly exporting/importing these between routes and sessions.

jeffmorris
September 18th, 2018, 04:28 AM
https://forums.auran.com/trainz/attachment.php?attachmentid=1571&d=1537238104

I think that the left monitor is brighter than the right monitor. What about "Color Temp" on my monitor's menu? I set it to "Warm".

PC_Ace
September 18th, 2018, 04:44 AM
Setting your color temperature on your monitor to 'Warm' is similar to using incandescent bulbs instead of 'cooler' fluorescent lights, which produce a whiter, bluer light.
It is a matter of personal taste and preference. Warmer (i.e. redder) colors are more restful on our eyes at nighttime, which is why Windows and so many screens (and smartphones) have a Night Light mode setting.

http://www.pkiwi.nz/images/nightlight.jpg

From memory, the sun's color temperature is roughly 5700 degrees Kelvin.
My screen for professional colour work is typically slightly cooler (bluer...) than that at 6500 K.
So it does have an effect, but really comes down to personal tastes and choices.

JAGG
September 18th, 2018, 04:47 AM
.... Still no comment from them about a more accurate means of inputting or at least viewing the RGB values and possibly exporting/importing these between routes and sessions.

Yep, it is very noticeable.

Kennilworth
September 18th, 2018, 06:11 AM
Hi

I seem to have stirred things up a bit with my original post. If the majority of people want the light levels setting up for the monitor default it then begs the question of whose default value do N3V use? As it seems that default values can vary even for monitors of the same make and model then they are on a hiding to nothing with this. No matter what they do someone is likely to complain.

It seems to me that if this is the only thing winding people up about TRS2019 then N3V must have got it good enough to please the majority of users. I certainly feel that this is the best version yet as I've not bothered with other versions since I bought it. When I acquired both TS12 and Tane at first release I didn't bother with either of them for months after first trying them out.

Regards

Brian

KenGreen
September 18th, 2018, 06:15 AM
The BBC used to broadcast a colour test card so that engineers could set up customers' TVs. is it a practical idea for NV3 to produce a simple chart to set up brightness etc. I think for most people they want to load up a route and run it without messing with settings otherwise it becomes too complicated except for dedicated photographers and other lighting experts who have a good understanding of how to achieve the correct balance. Or better still there needs to be some means of applying a settings to each route or session so that when you play different routes for say 30 minutes at a time you don't need to spend 20 minutes to set up the lighting before you start. Select the route, select the session and then select the lighting configuration this would have your particular preferences based on the default provided which could always be reset so that if you mess up your settings all is not lost.

Ken

big_b
September 18th, 2018, 07:07 AM
I've been using this sim for about 14yrs now in various versions and never had to set any options for lighting rather than choosing from between night and day
I have enough trouble changing the water color which has no graded scale to set to. I like the water in one route but cant get it in another due to guess work .
From the sounds of it lighting is now the problem to get right another guessing problem from the discussions here
At my age all I want to do is start it up and use it not try to figure out how to see it properly first.
I have hundreds of other games some back to win95 and most of the settings that you would want to change are on sliders 0 - 100 etc
Is nothing new so if this is the latest and the future of trainz why are adjustment tool not graded for reference
it's starting to sound like you've invented the clock but who needs numbers a guess is good enough

PC_Ace
September 18th, 2018, 07:26 AM
Users of TRS2019 (and T:ANE) are now spoiled for choice in terms of available lighting settings options and the capacity to set atmospheric conditions for the full Diurnal Cycle of their sessions.
To get to grips with these powerful controls, N3V have recently updated their Lighting Tutorial for TRS2019.
You can run that onscreen - whilst simultaneously trialing the settings in TRS2019 - from this link: https://n3vgames.typeform.com/to/y4J2Rl
(https://n3vgames.typeform.com/to/y4J2Rl)
If you want to learn more about the new lighting model - and if you haven't completed this tutorial yet, then doing so is highly recommended!

KenGreen
September 18th, 2018, 08:19 AM
Users of TRS2019 (and T:ANE) are now spoiled for choice in terms of available lighting settings options and the capacity to set atmospheric conditions for the full Diurnal Cycle of their sessions.
To get to grips with these powerful controls, N3V have recently updated their Lighting Tutorial for TRS2019.
You can run that onscreen - whilst simultaneously trialing the settings in TRS2019 - from this link: https://n3vgames.typeform.com/to/y4J2Rl
(https://n3vgames.typeform.com/to/y4J2Rl)
If you want to learn more about the new lighting model - and if you haven't completed this tutorial yet, then doing so is highly recommended!

How are these settings saved.

Ken

JAGG
September 18th, 2018, 08:54 AM
Users of TRS2019 (and T:ANE) are now spoiled for choice in terms of available lighting settings options and the capacity to set atmospheric conditions for the full Diurnal Cycle of their sessions.
To get to grips with these powerful controls, N3V have recently updated their Lighting Tutorial for TRS2019.
You can run that onscreen - whilst simultaneously trialing the settings in TRS2019 - from this link: https://n3vgames.typeform.com/to/y4J2Rl
(https://n3vgames.typeform.com/to/y4J2Rl)
If you want to learn more about the new lighting model - and if you haven't completed this tutorial yet, then doing so is highly recommended!

Tutorial is not IE friendly, so page is messed up.

Vern
September 18th, 2018, 09:08 AM
How are these settings saved.

Ken

They are only saved at route or even just session level, with no means of easily reading the values or exporting them - which is what some of us are asking for.

With regard to the monitor issue, I really do think pushing this as a hobbyhorse could result in less tech savvy users borking their hardware. Okay a monitor isn't the same as overclocking your GPU or CPU but many people use their PC at the plug and play level so turning down the initial brightness and contrast is probably the limit of their knowledge. Even I would leave settings such as temperature alone - if it ain't broke (for 99.9% of the games or apps which use it) don't try and fix for the oddball title (TRS2019) which doesn't... :) :)

KenGreen
September 18th, 2018, 09:32 AM
They are only saved at route or even just session level, with no means of easily reading the values or exporting them - which is what some of us are asking for.

With regard to the monitor issue, I really do think pushing this as a hobbyhorse could result in less tech savvy users borking their hardware. Okay a monitor isn't the same as overclocking your GPU or CPU but many people use their PC at the plug and play level so turning down the initial brightness and contrast is probably the limit of their knowledge. Even I would leave settings such as temperature alone - if it ain't broke (for 99.9% of the games or apps which use it) don't try and fix for the oddball title (TRS2019) which doesn't... :) :)

The problem of saving them at route or session level means that you need to save your own version which I think is impractcal. I would like to see an extra panel on the environment settings which allows you to load up any presaved settings in a similar manner to saved filter settings. This would be even better if there was a means of importing or exporting a file so that other more experienced users could save their settings for others to use. If we have gone to the trouble of creating sophisticated lighting method we need to finish the job off and make it easy to use.

Ken

clam1952
September 18th, 2018, 10:10 AM
Hi

I seem to have stirred things up a bit with my original post. If the majority of people want the light levels setting up for the monitor default it then begs the question of whose default value do N3V use? As it seems that default values can vary even for monitors of the same make and model then they are on a hiding to nothing with this. No matter what they do someone is likely to complain.

It seems to me that if this is the only thing winding people up about TRS2019 then N3V must have got it good enough to please the majority of users. I certainly feel that this is the best version yet as I've not bothered with other versions since I bought it. When I acquired both TS12 and Tane at first release I didn't bother with either of them for months after first trying them out.

Regards

Brian

No two monitors, even identical one are exactly the same especially using different Graphics cards and they do deteriorate with age. Having just replaced two monitors here I hadn't realised just how bad my existing ones had got. Over the years the original one have had their brightness and contrast cranked up to compensate and ended up with both on maximum which no longer cuts it. The new ones are perfect on default settings, may not be after a couple of years though.

The two new Identical monitors one with a 980TI one with a 1080TI actually appear to have slightly different gamma, probably due to the graphics cards

Point being is most will set their game settings to suit their monitors which may look great to them but the route when on a different monitor or GPU may look dark or over bright. You are not going to get a default that suits all systems.

If all systems were the same there would be no need for in game controls, Microsoft's software monitor adjustments or Nvidia's Control Panel or whatever AMD use.

JCitron
September 18th, 2018, 01:04 PM
JCitron - try setting the Sunlight pane's RGB dials to a uniform darker grey whilst turning the Ambient pane RGBs to a neutral near-white.
(Seems counterintuitive to have your sunlight (directional) settings lower than the Ambient light levels, but the result is much more realistic, detailed shadows - and not the harsh contrasts you've mentioned.
Suggest experiment a little with both for various daylight time slots and then top it all off with a gentle nudge to the new brightness slider...
With care - and following that basic premise above - it is possible to achieve full, rich, vibrant colours AND subtle, clearly delineated shadows and greyscale integrity across the entire gamut - especially if your monitor has already been properly calibrated to show its full range of colour tonal capabilities.

Thanks PC_Ace.

I did that last night and had some excellent results. Since I'm working on my route in Surveyor, I tend to set the lighting at noon to ensure I have nothing floating off the terrain. Once in my driving session, I'll reset my environmental controls to a more realistic lighting that's suitable for the route.

PC_Ace
September 18th, 2018, 04:32 PM
JAGG -

Tutorial is not IE friendly, so page is messed up.

Yes - unfortunately, the Google Forms host for the N3V Lighting Tutorial for TRS2019 has never been at all sympathetic to the Microsoft Internet Explorer browser.
For best results, use the latest variants of Chrome, Edge or Firefox browsers. I have tested this particular form with all of these modern, standards-based browsers to ensure that it works properly.
IE is now in its sunset years, lingering on mainly because of some ancient, legacy Internet banking applications.

PC_Ace
September 18th, 2018, 04:53 PM
KenGreen -

How are these settings saved.

Changes you make to the Environmental settings controls are applied after you shift focus from each control and are saved to the particular session associated with a Trainz route when you save the session.
This allows you to set up distinctly different atmospheric diurnal conditions for different sessions based on the same route.
One could be a sparkling, bright sunny day - another a wet and miserable night - another with near-blizzard, white-out conditions in the snow and sleet.

My favourite plaything at the moment is a session I set up to start at 6.00am on a somewhat misty morning in a picturesque steam-era engine yard with distant views over the lake towards the tree-covered hills far away from the camera.
As the sun rises, it casts impressive crepuscular rays over the landscape whilst generating lovely long shadows interplay with the trees and through loco steam and smoke whilst direct rays glint off shiny surfaces.
The new TurfFx blades of grass also take on a different look and feel during such early morning episodes.
I'm loving it!

KenGreen
September 18th, 2018, 05:13 PM
KenGreen -

Changes you make to the Environmental settings controls are applied after you shift focus from each control and are saved to the particular session associated with a Trainz route when you save the session.
This allows you to set up distinctly different atmospheric diurnal conditions for different sessions based on the same route.
One could be a sparkling, bright sunny day - another a wet and miserable night - another with near-blizzard, white-out conditions in the snow and sleet.

My favourite plaything at the moment is a session I set up to start at 6.00am on a somewhat misty morning in a picturesque steam-era engine yard with distant views over the lake towards the tree-covered hills far away from the camera.
As the sun rises, it casts impressive crepuscular rays over the landscape whilst generating lovely long shadows interplay with the trees and through loco steam and smoke whilst direct rays glint off shiny surfaces.
The new TurfFx blades of grass also take on a different look and feel during such early morning episodes.
I'm loving it!

As I said in an earlier post saving to a session, unless your own, means that you need to create a new session. If you could save an environment setting to your own installation as you do when saving filters this would be more suitable as you could load these settings after loading the session which would replace the creator's sessions settings.

Ken

ZecMurphy
September 18th, 2018, 08:38 PM
Hi All
Environment settings are saved per route/session, so that creators can create different lighting conditions specific to their route and session. It is not appropriate to replace this with a system wide override, as this could substantially change the look that the creator of the route has aimed for.

When it comes to bringing a route from TANE or earlier into TRS19, you may need to reset the environment settings to the new defaults. Since it is possible for a route to use non default environment settings, we cannot guarantee how 3rd party routes will look in any version of Trainz (such as if a creator has setup the lighting to compensate for an overly dark or contrasty monitor). With the new PBR lighting in TRS19, the lighting defaults have changed, and as such previous routes may need to be adjusted.

This can be done on a session level, however there is no magic fix for this, since the environment settings can be practically anything for any route.
Regards

pware
September 18th, 2018, 10:14 PM
In the absence of a system for saving and loading environmental lighting settings (one is coming we are assured) I have been trialing a simple light level notation system for recording the various RGB settings for the ambient and sun colours during a 24hr cycle.

During the development of a session I place the RGB values and times for the various control points on the clock in the session description box of the session editor. This way, selecting a session in Surveyor immediately brings up the set starting time for that session and the ambient and sun colour values for each control point.

For example:

06:00 ABM 128 (RGB) SUN 160 (RGB)
07:00 AMB 192 (RGB) SUN 192 (RGB)
12:00 AMB 255 (RGB) SUN 224 (RGB)
18:00 AMB 128 (RGB) SUN 192 (RGB)
19:00 AMB 128 (RGB) SUN 128 (RGB)
20:00 AMB 096 (RGB) SUN 000 (RGB)
24:00 AMB 000 (RGB) SUN 000 (RGB)
05:00 AMB 096 (RGB) SUN 000 (RGB)

The first row is the time at which the session is set to start (in this case 06:00). AMB = Ambient colour, SUN = Sun colour. Since I have set all three RGB values to the same identical value I just place that value followed by (RGB). I have not yet tried using this system for different RGB values for a set time.

It could be expanded by adding additional columns for Brightness and Fog levels.

The values that I use are, for simplicity, set at 1/8th intervals of the full colour circles - so 3/8th = 096: 4/8th = 128: 5/8th = 160: 6/8th = 192: 7/8th = 224: etc.

KenGreen
September 19th, 2018, 03:10 AM
Hi All
Environment settings are saved per route/session, so that creators can create different lighting conditions specific to their route and session. It is not appropriate to replace this with a system wide override, as this could substantially change the look that the creator of the route has aimed for.

When it comes to bringing a route from TANE or earlier into TRS19, you may need to reset the environment settings to the new defaults. Since it is possible for a route to use non default environment settings, we cannot guarantee how 3rd party routes will look in any version of Trainz (such as if a creator has setup the lighting to compensate for an overly dark or contrasty monitor). With the new PBR lighting in TRS19, the lighting defaults have changed, and as such previous routes may need to be adjusted.

This can be done on a session level, however there is no magic fix for this, since the environment settings can be practically anything for any route.
Regards

What if the creator has not made the best of the lighting in the user's view and in the case of TANE routes this will almost certainly be necessary to change the settings. My suggestion was to make the best use of the various lighting settings in an easy way so that each user can apply their own ideas of the correct lighting. As the lighting is now very sophisticated we need an equally sophisticated method of use.

Ken

KenGreen
September 19th, 2018, 03:14 AM
In the absence of a system for saving and loading environmental lighting settings (one is coming we are assured) I have been trialing a simple light level notation system for recording the various RGB settings for the ambient and sun colours during a 24hr cycle.

During the development of a session I place the RGB values and times for the various control points on the clock in the session description box of the session editor. This way, selecting a session in Surveyor immediately brings up the set starting time for that session and the ambient and sun colour values for each control point.

For example:

06:00 ABM 128 (RGB) SUN 160 (RGB)
07:00 AMB 192 (RGB) SUN 192 (RGB)
12:00 AMB 255 (RGB) SUN 224 (RGB)
18:00 AMB 128 (RGB) SUN 192 (RGB)
19:00 AMB 128 (RGB) SUN 128 (RGB)
20:00 AMB 096 (RGB) SUN 000 (RGB)
24:00 AMB 000 (RGB) SUN 000 (RGB)
05:00 AMB 096 (RGB) SUN 000 (RGB)

The first row is the time at which the session is set to start (in this case 06:00). AMB = Ambient colour, SUN = Sun colour. Since I have set all three RGB values to the same identical value I just place that value followed by (RGB). I have not yet tried using this system for different RGB values for a set time.

It could be expanded by adding additional columns for Brightness and Fog levels.

The values that I use are, for simplicity, set at 1/8th intervals of the full colour circles - so 3/8th = 096: 4/8th = 128: 5/8th = 160: 6/8th = 192: 7/8th = 224: etc.

Now wouldn't this be much easier if you could save a file with these settings and reload it each time or even save an exported file and send it to fellow users. Would this not put our sim far above the competition.

Ken

JAGG
September 19th, 2018, 03:42 AM
Hardly unfortunately, since it seems to be on the N3V's ignore list...

boleyd
September 19th, 2018, 06:03 AM
Since all the above is in the eyes of the beholder, allow that person to set their personal standards of route and lighting and be able to easily propagate that standard to other routes.

Well, that is nice but what do you do when a route looks bad with your "standard" environmental settings. Well, you fiddle the controls. Seems that is where we are now. As our photographers above well know not everyone likes their photos as much as they do. There is a reason we have full control of the colors, the brightness and the evenness of the application of each. Instead of looking for a standard that every route must match, just set the environment to your liking for each, and get back to playing the game. Tony waits with rewards for proficiency.

lrjanzen
December 9th, 2018, 09:29 AM
It is sort of a PITA but not a huge deal. I have been looking at a LOT of older routes and almost all of them have the haze filter applied. I found the easiest fix is togo into the environmental menu and just click the Reset Diurnal Color button. That cleans everything up. If you save the route it will hold that setting. Old routes that I have imported int TR19 and saved all have proper lighting when opened after the first save.

Tony_Hilliam
December 9th, 2018, 06:45 PM
Hardly unfortunately, since it seems to be on the N3V's ignore list...

Far from it - it is on the TO DO list, along with a bunch of other things.