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bradleybale2006
March 14th, 2018, 03:15 AM
Does anyone know of or working on a West Coast Wildness Railway layout in Trainz at all?

Saieditor
March 14th, 2018, 04:42 AM
Do you mean "West Coast Wilderness Railway (https://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-b&dcr=0&q=West+Coast+Wilderness+Railway&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwikqp6Hw-vZAhVHKJQKHUjzABIQkeECCCYoAA)" ?

bradleybale2006
March 14th, 2018, 11:30 PM
Do you mean "West Coast Wilderness Railway (https://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-b&dcr=0&q=West+Coast+Wilderness+Railway&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwikqp6Hw-vZAhVHKJQKHUjzABIQkeECCCYoAA)" ?

Yes I did sorry, not sure if it was automatically corrected or I had a mind blank

Vern
March 24th, 2018, 09:57 AM
It is mentioned here:

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?7493-Westcoast-Wilderness-Railway-Tasmania&highlight=west+coast+wilderness

But does not seem to have progressed beyond an idea. The biggest challenge would be how to do the rack section, whether there's suitable track or motive power let alone how Trainz physics would deal with it. I suppose it might be possible to ease the gradient to 1 in 20 and get away with using a Shay loco or similar.

narrowgauge
March 24th, 2018, 06:33 PM
Bradley

I don't think that the gradient will be a problem if the engine spec is tweaked enough and the nominal weight of the rolling stock is reduced. This is a model and we are not bound by real world restrictions.

I suggest that if modifications to the engine spec are not enough, then make the rolling stock powered as well. Just remember that you can't drive a string of cars around the yard without a loco.

I think that someone has made rack rail track for a Swiss route, try searching the forum.

Regarding the model creation, I am interested. Your endeavor pushes all my buttons, I did actually consider that line at one time. You have to get it while I'm here, I'm 90 next birthday so my Trainz time may be limited.

PeterPM

PS. No commission required.

bradleybale2006
March 24th, 2018, 09:50 PM
It is mentioned here:

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?7493-Westcoast-Wilderness-Railway-Tasmania&highlight=west+coast+wilderness

But does not seem to have progressed beyond an idea. The biggest challenge would be how to do the rack section, whether there's suitable track or motive power let alone how Trainz physics would deal with it. I suppose it might be possible to ease the gradient to 1 in 20 and get away with using a Shay loco or similar.

Yep have seen that forum but nothing has been done I think.

bradleybale2006
March 24th, 2018, 09:52 PM
Bradley

I don't think that the gradient will be a problem if the engine spec is tweaked enough and the nominal weight of the rolling stock is reduced. This is a model and we are not bound by real world restrictions.

I suggest that if modifications to the engine spec are not enough, then make the rolling stock powered as well. Just remember that you can't drive a string of cars around the yard without a loco.

I think that someone has made rack rail track for a Swiss route, try searching the forum.

Regarding the model creation, I am interested. Your endeavor pushes all my buttons, I did actually consider that line at one time. You have to get it while I'm here, I'm 90 next birthday so my Trainz time may be limited.

PeterPM

PS. No commission required.

OMG that would be awesome!!!

I would be forever so thankful!!!

narrowgauge
March 25th, 2018, 12:30 AM
Bradley


Unless drawings become available, it will be necessary to guesstimate on dimensions and designs from the various videos and photos, with a lot of scaling using the track gauge as a measure. How critical is this to you? If strict accuracy is not too important, I think that very reasonable 'lookalike' models can be made. As one of the coaches ran on the 30" PBR for a while, that would help as the loading gauge of both would not be too different.

I suggest that you don't need to wait for cog track to be made, start off with normal 42"track and swap them in Surveyor when the right track is available.

Now the onus is on you, only you can make the route. Keep us posted on progress.

I suggest that you ask for someone to make a contoured base map. That Tassie region is mountainous. It is possible that others who thought to make the route found the real life contours difficult to reproduce, which put them off. That's something you need to consider before you start thinking about details.

PeterPM

bradleybale2006
March 25th, 2018, 12:46 AM
Bradley


Unless drawings become available, it will be necessary to guesstimate on dimensions and designs from the various videos and photos, with a lot of scaling using the track gauge as a measure. How critical is this to you? If strict accuracy is not too important, I think that very reasonable 'lookalike' models can be made. As one of the coaches ran on the 30" PBR for a while, that would help as the loading gauge of both would not be too different.

I suggest that you don't need to wait for cog track to be made, start off with normal 42"track and swap them in Surveyor when the right track is available.

Now the onus is on you, only you can make the route. Keep us posted on progress.

I suggest that you ask for someone to make a contoured base map. That Tassie region is mountainous. It is possible that others who thought to make the route found the real life contours difficult to reproduce, which put them off. That's something you need to consider before you start thinking about details.

PeterPM

Haha now I see why there was no commission involved. I thought that maybe you were keen to make a locomotive or something :(

bradleybale2006
March 25th, 2018, 12:52 AM
Whilst on the topic of routes, I have created a massive Tasmanian route over years of using Google maps, YouTube and photos however mine is a bit longer then the real one and I got sick of making it to which the standard wasn't great. I layed the track down all flat and made crossings and yards. If anyone was interested in making hills and fixing it up I'd be interested. It's unfinished by a long way.

Vern
March 25th, 2018, 05:01 AM
Well I have had a little dabble with Transdem and done an extraction. There are two immediate issues - the first being the available DEM for Tasmania is only something like 70m resolution, which mean as you work up the King River canyon from Lowana there is a lot of averaging with where the river should be going downhill in places where it should be going up! Second, mapping - there are no freely available on line topographic maps at either 1:50,000 or 1:25,000 to use as an overlay. The best is Open Street Map which again, combined with the low res DEM, is not exactly accurate with the river up the side of the hill. I am having a go though as these are challenges to be overcome rather than insurmountable obstacles but the end result, if I can finish it, will be a representation rather than dead on bullseye accurate replica of the real thing.

As regards motive power the obvious workround is to use DCC mode as that pretty much ignores gradients, however I'm sure some of the Japanese 42" railcars can be coaxed up a 5% gradient!

Edit: Yes at Teepookana the valley floor is at around 15m on the DEM compared to 30m 2km downstream!

narrowgauge
March 25th, 2018, 07:53 AM
Bradley

I get the impression from your post that you think I am not interested. Far from it, even though I am still committed to completing the update to the DHR, I have already started looking for loco and rolling stock information. My pleasure has always come from creating 'narrow gauge stuff', not just wheeled vehicles, but also narrow gauge track components. Most of my content has been 24" through to 36" but I have gone astray and made some in 42".

I have no need or desire to make for commission, I get my "kicks" from the making. I have been in engineering all my life and enjoyed it, making Trainz models continues that enjoyment.

I find no enjoyment in route creation, in fact, I seldom run trains apart from testing my work. Even after 17 years with Trainz, I still spend most of my day in front of a computer with Trainz related model work on the monitor.

My emphasis on the route was because from my blinkered viewpoint, that is a bigger commitment than the locos and stock and you need to get someone "on side" to help there, especially as this route is far from a flat board route and can require some track and scenic content made for particular scene areas.

It is an interesting project and I am enthusiastic about it.

PeterPM

Vern
March 25th, 2018, 10:21 AM
Well the DEM and mapping is way out, so any effort is at best going to be a rough approximation. I did find the official TasMap site which seemed to promise DEM at 25m or 30m resolution but couldn't see how to obtain it. The online topographic map there also conveniently omits the railway line when zoomed in to 1:50,000/1:25,000 level of view.

As always I generally don't like to say anything about a project just underway because 95% of my endeavours turn into vapourware, but I will have a go. The caveat is that it's done to my standards and with no guarantee the finished result will bear more than a passing resemblance to the prototype.

Edit: After a bit of experimentation I have discovered how to get hold of the DEM, the snag being you need to wait for Geoscience Australia to email a link. The good news is it's 5m resolution not the 70m Viewfinder stuff. So assuming it goes through okay I will probably scrap what I've done so far and start over. Still leaves the mapping to sort but the accurate DEM is the bigger battle.

bradleybale2006
March 25th, 2018, 03:02 PM
Bradley

I get the impression from your post that you think I am not interested. Far from it, even though I am still committed to completing the update to the DHR, I have already started looking for loco and rolling stock information. My pleasure has always come from creating 'narrow gauge stuff', not just wheeled vehicles, but also narrow gauge track components. Most of my content has been 24" through to 36" but I have gone astray and made some in 42".

I have no need or desire to make for commission, I get my "kicks" from the making. I have been in engineering all my life and enjoyed it, making Trainz models continues that enjoyment.

I find no enjoyment in route creation, in fact, I seldom run trains apart from testing my work. Even after 17 years with Trainz, I still spend most of my day in front of a computer with Trainz related model work on the monitor.

My emphasis on the route was because from my blinkered viewpoint, that is a bigger commitment than the locos and stock and you need to get someone "on side" to help there, especially as this route is far from a flat board route and can require some track and scenic content made for particular scene areas.

It is an interesting project and I am enthusiastic about it.

PeterPM

Peter thank you for clarifying that, I now understand that route building is not your cup of tea and making narrow gauge stuff is. It really makes me happy that Vern and yourself are generally interested in this project and I think if you's stick at it then this will be one awesome project which a lot of people would enjoy for many many years.

bradleybale2006
March 25th, 2018, 03:04 PM
Well the DEM and mapping is way out, so any effort is at best going to be a rough approximation. I did find the official TasMap site which seemed to promise DEM at 25m or 30m resolution but couldn't see how to obtain it. The online topographic map there also conveniently omits the railway line when zoomed in to 1:50,000/1:25,000 level of view.

As always I generally don't like to say anything about a project just underway because 95% of my endeavours turn into vapourware, but I will have a go. The caveat is that it's done to my standards and with no guarantee the finished result will bear more than a passing resemblance to the prototype.

Edit: After a bit of experimentation I have discovered how to get hold of the DEM, the snag being you need to wait for Geoscience Australia to email a link. The good news is it's 5m resolution not the 70m Viewfinder stuff. So assuming it goes through okay I will probably scrap what I've done so far and start over. Still leaves the mapping to sort but the accurate DEM is the bigger battle.

Vern I'm really impressed by your efforts here and am so thankful for what you're doing, it's great you keep finding out more information about DEM making this project happen and can't wait to hear how this goes hoping you don't give up.

Vern
March 25th, 2018, 03:10 PM
I have now sourced some better DEM, a sample at 25m resolution (thanks to Roland/Geophil) and a 5m sample from the Georeference site. Hopefully one or the other (or both) will import to Transdem and if so I will start over to get a more accurate depiction of the terrain. Will take a look in the next day or two.

The Viewfinder stuff is generally good but sadly at 70m resolution is more suited to low or gently contoured country, than steep mountains and valleys.

bradleybale2006
March 25th, 2018, 03:25 PM
I have now sourced some better DEM, a sample at 25m resolution (thanks to Roland/Geophil) and a 5m sample from the Georeference site. Hopefully one or the other (or both) will import to Transdem and if so I will start over to get a more accurate depiction of the terrain. Will take a look in the next day or two.

The Viewfinder stuff is generally good but sadly at 70m resolution is more suited to low or gently contoured country, than steep mountains and valleys.

Great work Vern!

Thank you Roland and Geophil for your help too.

The more accurate the terrain the more realistic the route will be so it's great that you're gaining more information and help to make this project work.

Vern
March 26th, 2018, 06:56 AM
Can confirm the 25m DEM is far more satisfactory to work with and I've scrapped the previous effort with the 70m stuff. However the more accurate DEM will require working at or very close to the 1 in 15 ruling gradient on the rack sections.

Two small issues here, then. First I can't find any ABT style rack for 42in gauge track, let alone in Protrack variety. In fact there's hardly any ABT track at all and I can't even see a separate "cog" spline that could be placed between the rails afterwards.

Second I can confirm that all the 42in gauge stock I tried, including the Kiha railcars, will not climb a 5.5% gradient, at least in realistic mode. So kudos for the accurate physics, but does leave a thorny issue if the route comes to fruition as to how you could have a realistic drive. The only way to get a train moving is in DCC mode which most people discard as being too toy like. I presume that also means the AI could move the train for you. I haven't tried any Shay locos as yet, mainly because that is a more advanced hurdle to overcome - the first one being getting a viable route up and running.

Anyway progress will be fairly slow for the next few days due to work and other commitments and as stated earlier I hate discussing a route so early in its gestation period.

bradleybale2006
March 27th, 2018, 02:48 AM
Can confirm the 25m DEM is far more satisfactory to work with and I've scrapped the previous effort with the 70m stuff. However the more accurate DEM will require working at or very close to the 1 in 15 ruling gradient on the rack sections.

Two small issues here, then. First I can't find any ABT style rack for 42in gauge track, let alone in Protrack variety. In fact there's hardly any ABT track at all and I can't even see a separate "cog" spline that could be placed between the rails afterwards.

Second I can confirm that all the 42in gauge stock I tried, including the Kiha railcars, will not climb a 5.5% gradient, at least in realistic mode. So kudos for the accurate physics, but does leave a thorny issue if the route comes to fruition as to how you could have a realistic drive. The only way to get a train moving is in DCC mode which most people discard as being too toy like. I presume that also means the AI could move the train for you. I haven't tried any Shay locos as yet, mainly because that is a more advanced hurdle to overcome - the first one being getting a viable route up and running.

Anyway progress will be fairly slow for the next few days due to work and other commitments and as stated earlier I hate discussing a route so early in its gestation period.

Paulz Trainz has ABT rack track but no thumbnails are showing what it looks like.

I wouldn't worry about the engine spec for the gradient, I know we can overcome that so then we'll be able to play it in realistic mode.

Ok that's not a problem if you're busy for the next few days.

steins2
May 21st, 2018, 08:17 AM
Paulz Trainz has ABT rack track but no thumbnails are showing what it looks like.

I wouldn't worry about the engine spec for the gradient, I know we can overcome that so then we'll be able to play it in realistic mode.

Ok that's not a problem if you're busy for the next few days.


I think I have the track in game. I have his ABT locos too, which do leave alot to be desired. Ill see if I can find my ABT track. I have the CDP from TRS2004 days here somewhere!