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View Full Version : Fifty bucks up for grabs for a commission



ktain.ny
January 8th, 2018, 09:55 PM
Hello all. Here is a consideration for you content creators out there.

Since there is no decent model of an ATSF 3751 class northern locomotive, Id like to commission one. Iíve come into some cash, and 50 dollars in the amount if like to pay for having it modeled. Obviously Iíd like the detail to be decent, but nothing crazy. Iím open to other offers within reason, but 50 seems very fair to me.

dleblanc
January 8th, 2018, 11:22 PM
50 seems very fair to me.

No offense intended, but 50 dollars for a commissioned model is not (even remotely) fair. I say this because I'm not certain you're aware of what's entailed to create a model.

Some models take hundreds of hours to build, no less an elaborate steam locomotive and all it's attachments from scratch.

Even a reskin can take several hours to perfect.

RJArtim
January 8th, 2018, 11:25 PM
Yeah you need to add another 0 or 2 even to get someone to do that.

scratchy
January 9th, 2018, 04:49 AM
I’m open to other offers within reason, but 50 seems very fair to me.

Why does it seem fair, how long do you think it takes to create a good quality steam locomotive?

pware
January 9th, 2018, 05:51 AM
Not that it is any reliable guide, but I did a search of the DLS to see how many locomotives (or anything for that matter) that had been created and uploaded by the OP. The result of that search is a possible indication as to why he considered $50 to be fair compensation for creating a locomotive.

Richarde57
January 9th, 2018, 07:40 AM
If the loc is only for himself then 50 dollar is way too cheap.

If he wants someone to START creating such a steam loc and if ready the creator can sell it to the rest of world then 50 bucks is ok.

What is the price of a super detailed locomotive?

Look at JR (also lots of FREE stuff)
Look at K&L (also lots of FREE stuff)
Look at TrainzForge (also lots of FREE stuff)
Look at N3V Trainz Store (also lots of FREE stuff)
Look at TrainzMarket (also lots of FREE stuff)
Etc. Etc.

You can get complete trains with multiple locs in one pack and lots of different cars/wagons.
All for a few dollars/euro.

Look at the DLS (Everything for FREE)

So what is the problem to give someone a push to start a new project?


RJArtim
January 9th, 2018, 08:58 AM
Cause 50 dollars is not a big enough push.

ktain.ny
January 9th, 2018, 09:00 AM
Yeah I guess you guys are right. Back to the drawing board, then.

johnwhelan
January 9th, 2018, 09:53 AM
Yeah I guess you guys are right. Back to the drawing board, then.


There is always paulz trainz but the quality can be uneven.

Cheerio John

chrisaw
January 9th, 2018, 10:33 AM
Don't give up hope justyet ktain.


Just because the firstfew responses have been negative doesn't mean nobody would make yourmodel at that price. You never know, somebody might already beworking on one that they could make available to you.


I think it's nice thatyou're offering to pay for something rather than the usual “I wantone of these for free “ requests.


Chris.

RJArtim
January 9th, 2018, 11:25 AM
The posts were not negative but realistic. Everyone wants something cheap or free, it is not that way anymore. Spending 2 years on a route or an engine is worth more than $50.

paulhobbs
January 9th, 2018, 11:33 AM
You can have it for free, see here: www.blender .org (http://www.blender.org). Some self assembly required.

Paul

Trainz_12_fan_100
January 9th, 2018, 11:38 AM
$50? I'll make you a caboose with a face. And put on the sides ATSF #3751

chrisaw
January 9th, 2018, 12:07 PM
The posts were not negative but realistic. Everyone wants something cheap or free, it is not that way anymore. Spending 2 years on a route or an engine is worth more than $50.

If every content creator thought that way there would be nothing on the DLS, so if somebody's willing to make content for free why is the offer of 50 bucks such a bad deal?
I applaud the fact that ktain is willing to pay, and if one or two others wanted the same loco perhaps they could club together to offer more.

P.S. I meant negative as in they wouldn't consider the job at the price offered.

Chris.

cascaderailroad
January 9th, 2018, 12:20 PM
More than likely, a creator like Steve Lerro, would take on the commission, and once completed the creator would still retain rights to the loco, and would continue to charge future customers $5, $10, $15, $20 per loco

mcguirel
January 9th, 2018, 12:24 PM
Why does it seem fair, how long do you think it takes to create a good quality steam locomotive?

When you buy the 3D models from another site, pretty easily.... :wave:

johnwhelan
January 9th, 2018, 02:00 PM
When you buy the 3D models from another site, pretty easily.... :wave:


Yes but they do tend to be a bit high on the poly count for Trainz.

Cheerio John

simulatortrain
January 9th, 2018, 03:03 PM
When you buy the 3D models from another site, pretty easily.... :wave:

Do you mind providing a link to this site where steam locomotive meshes may be purchased?

meatloaf747
January 9th, 2018, 04:46 PM
Hello all. Here is a consideration for you content creators out there. Since there is no decent model of an ATSF 3751 class northern locomotive, Id like to commission one. I’ve come into some cash, and 50 dollars in the amount if like to pay for having it modeled. Obviously I’d like the detail to be decent, but nothing crazy. I’m open to other offers within reason, but 50 seems very fair to me.

For a young lad, $50 can be a lot of money. Rather than knocking the lad, I commend him for not being one of these "make me this steam loco for free, and by the way, I want it now". Gimme, gimme, gimme!!! Hopefully a few other Trainzers might be interested in the same loco, and be prepared to fork out some cash for it as well. Good luck lad...

Cheers, Mac...

deadpoolmx55
January 9th, 2018, 06:04 PM
I spend 50 bucks every time I go to the Chinese restaurant, or movies or the bar. 50 Doesn’t go very far.

pware
January 9th, 2018, 07:10 PM
Look at the DLS (Everything for FREE)

So what is the problem to give someone a push to start a new project?

I understand what you are saying but there is another side to creating assets for Trainz. As you point out, everything on the DLS is free, freely given to the community by many, many creators because they wanted to share their work, not make $$$ out of it. In once sense, by offering money for someone to do what we have all given for free could be considered an insult to those creators - it is saying that their work was not worth anything.

I agree, this approach is more honest or more creative than the usual "gimme pig" requests that creators receive but it is still a "gimme" request. As many have pointed out, $50 is not a fair compensation for the 100s of hours that would be needed to build the "high quality" loco requested - and what if the work did not meet the expected standards?

If someone was already building this loco for the DLS then perhaps they should take advantage of such a naive offer but I would not start such a project just for the money.

My opinions only.

dleblanc
January 9th, 2018, 08:05 PM
Developing for Trainz is like being a musician.

It takes weeks and months to learn and years to master. The OP didn't do anything wrong and doesn't deserve to be treated as such, which is why I opened with "no offense intended".

The OP simply did not know and tried to do the right thing by offering some money for work. I don't like the term gimme-pig, because it ought never be taboo to ask for something of interest, but conversely, no expectations should be inferred by asking either. Politely, or financially.

The only reason I responded was because the OP thought 50 dollars was fair for a "decent" model, but once being apprised to the high level aspects of content creation realized what was involved. To their credit.

There's a huge difference between a prototype and a production model. Commissioning prototypes in any application are always greatly expensive and rely on a volume of production models to be sold to offset those costs. A business plan, if you will. It's been mentioned that some folks produce elaborate models for free and that's terrific, however like myself, I create an asset or reskin for my purposes first, then happily allow others to use it for free, that they may enjoy it too. I've also looked at other creator content for debugging or errors without expectations of cost, because we are a community with common interests and I wholly support making it a learning experience for them. I've made some terrific friends over the years. I've learned from some of the best, who unselfishly contributed their time helping with things.

Steam locomotives are the single most difficult asset to create in Trainz IMHO. In all my years of Trainz, I have seen many started, but never finished models. Modeling is not a simple matter of picking shapes from a list then linking them into a set. It requires patient, obsessive attention to detail, resizing, re-positioning over and over again until it's suitable. It's as tedious as it is difficult. On top of a linked set, models require lighting, textures, attachments, scripts and synchronized animations. Alpha ordering and shiny, specular and LOD are technical aspects considered in nearly every individual part of a creation.

Last month, I decide to create the Canadian Pacific Holiday Train. For a few hours a day over the course of a week I re-skinned 14 assets to the consist. For still photography, it looks nice, but for captured video (or the sim itself), it has a lot of shortcomings. Day/night lighting has yet to be resolved, scripts for sequencing textures for the synchronized flashing lights has yet to written, especially as it applies to the entire consist and not just the car itself. I have to go back to the drawing board and re-learn some things before tackling those tasks. Even then, I'd expect bugs or inadvertent features not anticipated until beta testing.

Also as mentioned earlier, even re-skinning can be a lengthy task. Scanning through thousands of photos to locate a ideal texture for each asset is greatly time consuming, even without assembling a single component.

For that reason, I didn't release it. I will poke away at it all year, an hour here, an hour there. Hopefully next year, it will be what I'm envisioning. And yes, I will upload to the DLS. It's really quite a spectacular train.

scratchy
January 9th, 2018, 11:26 PM
When you buy the 3D models from another site, pretty easily.... :wave:

I haven't heard "pretty easily" used as a measurement of time before but yeah nah, good, productive comments there...

Good luck with your commission Ktrain

H222
January 10th, 2018, 02:06 AM
$50 is not an adequate commission for the effort a loco takes. Let alone a steam loco.

People release things for free because they enjoy building things themselves, using those items and seeing others use them (unlike a certain hump yard module). People release things for money because they enjoy having money. They also need money to make their respective worlds go around.

Neither should be compared or criticised.

Jamie

amigacooke
January 10th, 2018, 07:15 AM
Anything is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

If $50 is not enough for you, best not reply, the OP will get the message just the same.

chrisaw
January 10th, 2018, 07:40 AM
Anything is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

If $50 is not enough for you, best not reply, the OP will get the message just the same.
Well said

Chris.

trainman7616
January 10th, 2018, 07:47 AM
50 bucks would only garner maybe a 0-4-0 or a 2-4-0.

ktain.ny
January 10th, 2018, 08:52 AM
Please don’t post on this thread unless you

a.) want to make the engine at that low price, or are willing to negotiate more.

b.) want to help pay

thanks.

PerRock
January 10th, 2018, 01:40 PM
Please try and keep this thread civil and on topic. I'm unlocking it now, don't make me come back in here.

bigboydude
January 11th, 2018, 03:51 PM
ktain.ny while 3751 is not necessarily a locomotive I am totally lusting after, I wouldn't mind possibly contributing to the commission fund of it. But I thought I've heard a couple people say that they were working on it? And yes it's been a while, but life happens so don't just write them off yet.

Christopher824
January 11th, 2018, 06:19 PM
So if someone would actually give an amount it would take for them to build a quality asset. Then the OP could take his $50 bucks and start a crowdfunding site to collect the rest needed, and then when it's done, release it on the DLS for free, thanking all the funders for contributing. I would chip in to the crowd funding, maybe $5 bucks, and if another 100 people did it with varying amounts, it might be enough? Just an idea, had to throw it out there.

pware
January 11th, 2018, 07:40 PM
Just an idea, had to throw it out there.

Finally a worthwhile suggestion. It would have to be an asset that enough people were interested in getting.

tbird8923
January 11th, 2018, 07:53 PM
You do know right that Trainman7616 is making a model of 3751, and Tigerko15 made a reskin of it using the Trainz Italia ATSF 2929

johnwhelan
January 11th, 2018, 08:19 PM
One of the most difficult bits for a content creator to do is finding a set of detailed plans and supporting photographs. If you manage to assemble these for your heart's desire you might find someone is willing to put something together.

Cheerio John

bigboydude
January 11th, 2018, 08:54 PM
tbird I thought a few people were? That's why I wasn't necessarily pledging money into this endeavor.

tbird8923
January 11th, 2018, 09:36 PM
tbird I thought a few people were? That's why I wasn't necessarily pledging money into this endeavor.

I think many people were, 3751 is a very popular steam locomotive