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narrowgauge
May 29th, 2017, 10:34 PM
Please contact me any way you find possible concerning future of the DHR route.

Peter 'narrowgauge'

PerRock
May 30th, 2017, 11:27 AM
Minor contributor checking in. PM, Email (I'll PM it if needed), or Skype all work for me.

I've done a little fiddling around with the route since TANE, (swapping trees, re-making textures, etc) but am interested in what you're thinking.

peter

HiBaller
May 31st, 2017, 04:28 PM
Did either of you get my email? I sent a mass email out, but a lot of the addresses bounced. So, PP-M, I guess I've lost them also.

Bill

Col_Klink
June 1st, 2017, 11:49 AM
Hello Peter
I've been wondering if it had tucked neatly away or had been totally forgotten.
I'm here if there is something I can do. Send a note - I'm available.

And BTW, would you prefer a PM to get specific information ??

HiBaller
June 1st, 2017, 01:44 PM
Hi, Ken. Did you get my email, or is the address I have (BellSouth) out of date?

Bill

Col_Klink
June 1st, 2017, 02:13 PM
Hi Bill
Check your PM for my address change. Good hearing from you and anxious to hear what the current news is.

narrowgauge
June 1st, 2017, 08:47 PM
Guys

At this stage I am not able to provide more information on the forum. I don't have much to give anyway. Please PM me with your email address and I will add you to my list of past project members. No need to post here.

Peter

samabay
December 2nd, 2017, 12:56 AM
Hi Peter

How is life treating you. Have final got back to look at Trainz after a number of years. Been think about having another crack at The Beechy.

What is the question in regard to DHR?

Regards

Ted Stuckey

Guys

At this stage I am not able to provide more information on the forum. I don't have much to give anyway. Please PM me with your email address and I will add you to my list of past project members. No need to post here.

Peter

narrowgauge
December 2nd, 2017, 01:41 AM
Ted

Good to see your post, I thought that you had gone for good.

About the DHR.

Bill (Hiballer) and I are in the process of updating the DHR for Trainz A New Era, normally referred to as T:ane.

Progress so far:-

Bill has found and added back the boards that were lopped off to make the route run-able prior to TRS2009, which has restored some of the longer sight lines. That was NOT an easy task

T:ane has what we consider to be a major fault, textures that were usable in previous versions now appear to be illuminated by searchlights. Bill is reworking the problem ones in Dave's collection, both the assets and ground textures. I have nearly completed a complete revamp of the road system which has entailed transferring the modules to a mesh library system and fixing the 'glare' problem at the same time.

The new program allows the creation of track layouts that automatically create animated junctions. With the permission of the creator, I have built the system into a replacement for the original 2ft track by Linda so we now have working junctions.

However we are trying to ensure that the DHR remains the lovable old dear that we created such a long time back so we are trying to keep any changes to the same style.

I'm afraid that none of these changes can be used in builds below the current one, we decided that the time had come to make this jump, the original program was getting a little bit too old for the new systems.

Are you thinking about a return to Trainz? Can I welcome you back?

To get the best results, T:ane does require more powerful computers than those in the past, BUT the visual effects make updating or replacing the older machines very worth while.

A personal note, my travelling days are over, old age is creeping in.

Cheers

Peter

PS, I thought about the Beechy the other day. Perhaps we could do that when the DHR is bedded down on the DLS

HiBaller
December 2nd, 2017, 09:08 AM
Funny you should mention the Beechy, Peter. I still have the last files we used on a thumb drive so it could be resurrected if we need it. I seem to remember someone else did it, though.

Have you noticed a strange thing happening in the forum edit window with carriage returns (Enters) not registering unless you hit two of them in succession?

A big hello to you also, Ted.


Bill

RW912
December 2nd, 2017, 10:18 AM
Peter, reviving the DHR in Trainz is much appreciated by me and I am sure by a lot of other Trainzers. The step to T:ANE is a wise one, even though she has her flaws, she is still gorgeous to look at. ( I am talking about T:ANE still, not about my wife but the same goes for her :-) )

nelutu41
December 10th, 2017, 02:37 PM
excuse me?

narrowgauge
March 12th, 2018, 11:58 PM
People.

I bet you have been thinking that the update was forgotten. Bill and I have been immersed in it for much more time than we expected. Looking back at what we proposed, we completely underestimated the time involved. In reality, what we are doing is probably equivalent to a 50% rebuild.

The current situation is:-

Bill has found and replaced the baseboards we cut out in the beginning,

Procedural track is completed and Bill has worked it into the route, not easy. The code can't handle junctions laid on a slope, so as the DHR is on a slope end to end, in some places the junctions are not procedural.

Bill is currently working through Dave's multitude of assets to 'darken them off'. Last I heard was that he was about half way through, a mind numbing job.

I have been immersed in reworking the road. What seemed a good idea at the time, loading them all into a mesh library, is still a good idea, it just took me more time than I am prepared to admit, but now I think it is nearly completed.

So far, nothing could be handed out for any other volunteers but now we do have one that someone can handle. The original intent was that the route should not be changed but as Bill has found and added back the missing board sections and as there were changes required for the addition of the track, we think that there are other changes that could be made.

1: Replace all the spot textures where T:ane has left the ground unpainted and the grid is showing.

2: As I have used a rectangular stone texture on all the replacement road side faces, the 'grass' green texture that was used to try and blend in the sloped sides no longer matches and needs to be retextured.

3: Generally go over all the route to tidy up the things that the update to T:ane affected and also respond to anything else that may be suggested.

These will be modifications to the master route so if several people want to volunteer, it would have to be a serial effort.

Any volunteers?

Pleeeez!!!

Peter

HiBaller
March 13th, 2018, 08:32 AM
I'd say that about covers it, Peter. The updating of Dave's assets is around 70% finished now. However, none of them have been uploaded to the DLS. I will do that in batches when I'm completely finished.

Bill

narrowgauge
April 14th, 2018, 12:41 AM
Gals and guys.

The sun is shining again and Bill and I can give you something to play with.

Bill has advised that he is well into the update of Dave's assets but as none of the items on the DLS have been updated, what you have on your computer or download will work. You must have a working copy of the DHR as I am only supplying the assets that I worked on which will replace the existing components. My part of the endeavor is almost complete and I have put the files on my web site. Be warned, they are substantial and can be downloaded individually or as one ZIP file.

The web site folder will require a password so if you are interested, email me and I will supply details.

What you can expect to see is a complete road section colour corrected update packed into library mesh files, a complete replacement of the track with procedural track and ground colour changes adjacent to the roads. I have to rework the track with less reflective textures, a purely cosmetic change

Naturally, I hope that you will not find any problems but I expect I may have missed something. If you find a problem that is route/track/road related PLEASE give me the map reference (bottom left hand corner in Surveyor) so I can find the location.

I do expect some T:ane related glitches, it is not as reliable as it should be. From my experience, these could be sections of road between adjacent points disappearing but not due to missing items. You may also find that T:ane will complain that it could not find an asset even though it is visible, error free in Content Manager and selectable in the Surveyor menu.

Finally, everything is a current master copy, you can hack it/them around as much as you like, tell us (send me) what you have done but please don't distribute it. Perhaps I could build your change into the next master, provided it is not too extensive.

Peter

narrowgauge
April 15th, 2018, 08:38 PM
For those that are interested here is the link:-

ftp://darjeelingtrainz.com/latest/dhr-updates-15-4-18

The compressed files are encrypted, so if you are interested, PM me with your email address, or email me and I will supply the password. I will ignore any other PMs. There are single CDP's or one large CDP that contains all the files so you have a choice.

It is necessary that you have an current up-to-date installation of the DHR. Remember, this is T:ane we are using so although I have been using the current public version of T:ane there could still be hidden problems. I strongly recommend that you make a complete backup of your installation.

There are no guarantees!!!!

Questions and comments? Use this thread. I will probably ignore any others.

Final note:- The package includes the later procedural 2 foot track, there are things I would like to change, and as the procedural track has problems with the continuous incline of the DHR track, it only works properly on level ground, there will be updates.

Peter

teddytoot
April 16th, 2018, 05:20 AM
At the moment, the link just gives me a blank page in Edge. Chrome gives me a box that wants a username as well as the password.

narrowgauge
April 16th, 2018, 08:01 AM
At the moment, the link just gives me a blank page in Edge. Chrome gives me a box that wants a username as well as the password

John,

Chrome is the way to go. I have sent you the username information you need. I think my mind had 'a blank page' as well.

Peter

teddytoot
April 20th, 2018, 06:17 AM
Having now installed the DHR route I find I am missing two kuids. I realise the updated dmdrake assets are still to come plus one station update but I am missing two Narrowgauge items; kuid2:44700:35704:1 and kuid2:44700:100657:1. I can find no reference to these or earlier versions in the original TS12 version or on the DLS.

Two comments:

Kuid:47439:25613 SirGibby waterfall-2d. This has TS12 textures which are incompatible with TANE. They can only be changed to tga/texture.txt form, using PEV's program, if one has access to pre 3.7 content manager.

The other comment is not a grumble at the creators but at N3V. Because they limited the minimum radius at which procedural track animation works (about 30m) this means that many of the NG points because of their tighter radius, give a red circle and no animation. Tony did suggest when I originally raised this point to start the curved track with a large radius then curve it in. Much easier said than done.

manweb
April 20th, 2018, 07:14 AM
Hello


Having now installed the DHR route I find I am missing two kuids. I realise the updated dmdrake assets are still to come plus one station update but I am missing two Narrowgauge items; kuid2:44700:35704:1 and kuid2:44700:100657:1. I can find no reference to these or earlier versions in the original TS12 version or on the DLS.


Same for me about the dmdrake updates and Peter items.

Waiting for news from Peter.

Regards

Manuel

sumitsingh
April 20th, 2018, 07:34 AM
Some interesting reference for Indian Railways Steam Locomotives are here -
Broad Gauge - https://www.flickr.com/photos/markcarter/sets/72157623908506196
Meter Gauge - https://www.flickr.com/photos/markcarter/sets/72157626730477252
Narrow Gauge - https://www.flickr.com/photos/markcarter/sets/72157626605883571
Industrial - https://www.flickr.com/photos/markcarter/sets/72157672354254251

narrowgauge
April 20th, 2018, 07:52 AM
John

Thank you for your comments

There is another real problem with the procedural track. It requires that all the converging tracks to be on the same plane and that plane must be absolutely horizontal, this was the major problem in adapting the track to the route. Bill, who did the relaying found that this need for absolute level track was a greater problem than the radius limitation. I think that the code reads and compares the track height. Even if the diverging angle is satisfactory the height difference problem remains. Tony's cure does not fix that problem. I think that the radius should be code-related to the gauge, not fixed at big rail standard.

I assumed that the proc track which was given the same KUIDs as the original would just slot in, I was wrong. It did 'just slot in' but needed a lot of work to make it fit and even then as the entire route is built on an incline the junctions still required a lot of fiddling because of the rail height factor, and there are many places where fiddling with the ground height is just not possible. My honest opinion is that moving to proc track was a waste of time.

I will look at my two missing items, they are both new items. Mikes waterfalls, I think I can fix as I'm using 3.6 CM.

Is the station you mention 'Rangtong' Was it listed as 'not found' when you installed the route? There is something strange here, I have that installed, visible without error in CM, visible and placeable in Surveyor, but CM can't see it.

Peter

HiBaller
April 20th, 2018, 10:02 AM
If I am able to recover from a really, really strange TANE/HDD problem, I will do my best to get Dave's updated content out there to the DLS.I have an untainted backup, so it is only a matter of time.

Bill

narrowgauge
April 20th, 2018, 10:39 PM
John and Manuel

44700:35704 is a mesh library which is obsolete, I thought I had removed it from the route.

44700:100657 is another very old obsolete library and I don't understand how it was included in the CDP.

Finally, the waterfall from Mike Sutton. Because of the texture problem, he gave me permission to change the files and upload to the DLS as kuid:44700:25613. By the time you read this, it should have been accepted. Use find and replace in surveyor, or dig into the route config and change the reference.


In any case I will sort all this out here and hopefully just upload what is necessary.

What about Rangtong? Is that the one you refer to as "one station update"

Peter

narrowgauge
April 21st, 2018, 03:38 AM
Guys

I have decided that 44700:35704 should have been uploaded.

However my problem now is getting the file into your hands. My main machine has gone totally dead, don't yet know why, and my construction machine which is normally kept off-line refuses to write to a USB drive for me to get the file into this third computer which is obviously on-line.

Please be patient, I hope to find some way to fix this dilemma.

Peter

teddytoot
April 21st, 2018, 03:42 AM
Yes Rangtong is the station. The TS12 version is :1 whereas the needed one is version :4. Best of luck in overcoming your problems.

narrowgauge
April 21st, 2018, 04:41 AM
I managed to coerce the stubborn machine into disgorging the CDP and you can find it here ftp://darjeelingtrainz.com/makeup-road-library-file.cdp. It is late and I am tired and I hope this works.

About Rangtong, why does the build of 1 prevent it loading? The Mahanadi Station is by the same creator and has the same build number and that loads without any fuss. There has to be another reason. Don't forget, the Rangtong asset works in Surveyor and shows no error in CM.

It just doesn't get loaded when the main route is committed. There must be something that CM sees as strange during the committal process. It would help very much if you could do some detective work, if it needs to be changed, I have permission to upload the changed file.

Peter

teddytoot
April 21st, 2018, 01:12 PM
The config table expects :4 so won't load :1. Changing it to :1 works OK. Another point. I did a downhill run today and found a gap in the track just before junction Z#4 just above Tindharia works. I also found unfortunately that a lot of the vehicles on the road were floating several feet in the air (the Indian rope trick modernised?)

narrowgauge
April 21st, 2018, 08:34 PM
Gentlemen.

My main computer collapsed yesterday which is going to distract me considerably. If I don't respond to a message promptly, you will understand the reason.

John. Thank you for your detective work, but it introduces a puzzle. You found that the list in the config showed <kuid:126323:28005:4, when I packed the config file that entry would have shown :1 as do all the others by the same creator. Can that table get altered internally?

Blame it on T:ane!!!!

I'll look for the missing road section. I will ask that to identify any place on the route, I am given the North-South co-ordinates. The east/west figures aren't needed. It is so much easier and more accurate to find a spot. The floating cars are strange, I'll look into it. Can you give me a typical location?

Peter

narrowgauge
April 22nd, 2018, 12:13 AM
More!

I cleaned any remnants of the DHR off my laptop. I then downloaded the current DLS version, installed it and downloaded the dependencies which included the #126323 buildings which included Rangtong station. No errors in any of them.

This should have given me an entire pre-T:ane installation.

I then installed the CDP's I posted recently. These do not include the Rangtong etc. bits but do include the latest version of the DHR route with the procedural track. I must point out that at no time did Content Manager report an error.

Result:-

All the Rangtong bits are missing with the red boxes visible.

I found the position where John reported the missing road. Nothing missing for me. I accept that his comment was valid.

I also accept that John found cars and buses in the air. None of these were evident when I was finalising the road. (John please give me co-ords)

Environmental textures missing all over the place.

My reluctant conclusion, drawn from the above and my experience over the last months, is that T:ane can't handle the DHR.

I'm also fed up with the whole project. Factor that into my conclusion.

Peter

HiBaller
April 22nd, 2018, 09:26 AM
I feel your frustation, Peter. I've essentially done the same thing and came to the same conclusion about TANE and the DHR. When I cruise down the tracks looking for "bad stuff", and find something, I do a Save As.. and back out of Surveyor. Then, I go back in and choose the just-saved route. Presto! The "bad stuff" is gone and back to normal.

It is gratifying to see my darkened content looks much better now under TANEs glaring spotlight, but according to what I hear in the Froum, TANE is going to have some sort of lighting adjusting setting in the tools. If so, this negates virtually everything I've done.

I'm not surprised TANE can't handle the DHR. Given it was originally created with/for TS2004 and adjusted upward through each new version, I've concluded the changes were just too much.

Now that I've dug myself out of the phantom directory quagmire TANE gave me, I'm back to whatever passed for normal. My drive to finish the adjustment of content just isn't there any more.

Bill

teddytoot
April 22nd, 2018, 03:26 PM
Peter I've been away all day so, if possible, I'll try to find the information tomorrow if I have time. If not it will be at least Wednesday before I shall have time. I'll also give Bill's idea of save as (as my kuid) and see what happens. I can well sympathise if you just say "to hell with it, I've had enough".

narrowgauge
April 22nd, 2018, 06:42 PM
Guys

From now on I intend to work on the following basis. T:ane and the DHR are an unpredictable combination so I will not try and fix individual problems. If three or more people report precisely the same problem at the same coordinates, I will do what I can to solve the problem. I can't fix a problem that I cannot reproduce.

Peter

narrowgauge
April 28th, 2018, 08:42 AM
Regarding the DHR and our work to update it.

I have decided that my remaining years are too valuable to me to continue the fight with T:ane. I will no longer work with or support the DHR with the current T:ane version. When the next version appears then, hoping for a miracle, I will test it and the DHR again. To be honest, I don't have much hope and if the current lack of interest in the update, 3 people, that is all who expressed an interest, continues with the new version then I give up completely.

If someone else wants to have a go, I will hand them the baton and give them all the files, and help where I can.

I can not speak for Hiballer here. It is possible that he may continue with his update tasks, it is his decision. The assets he has been working on are amongst those affected by the DHR related T:ane problems.

Peter

HiBaller
April 28th, 2018, 10:06 AM
I agree with Peter entirely. My alteration of Dave Drake's (dmdrake) content was only to the brightness of each piece of content. I've finished that task for over 1200 items. If I'm able, I might upload them to the DLS. I've been having failure after failure with my build (90948) of TANE. For each attempt to work on a given route, I spend at least a half hour getting TANE to run properly. No game worth anything should have the user scrambling to make it work properly. That isn't the point of a game. But, I'm ranting.

From what I've been able to find out of the new, improved version of TANE is there will be a 'brightness control', or perhaps it will be called a 'gamma control'. In either case, my efforts at reducing the brightness of content originally created for the 2004 version of the DHR will be negated. Frustrating, but that's the price of development.

I will not be making any more updates for the DHR either.

Bill

HiBaller
April 28th, 2018, 10:25 AM
ADDENDUM TO MY LAST: I just now found out I cannot upload Dave's content without changing their build number to at least 3.5 because that's the minimum build acceptable to the DLS. I am NOT going to go back through all 1200 items just to change the build number. I changed a few, and was rewarded by warnings and outright errors in some content. Sorry, not going to happen.

Bill

teddytoot
April 28th, 2018, 01:46 PM
Thank you both of you for what you have tried to do. In my correspondence with Peter I have appreciated your efforts and his frustration and as the level of interest is so low why bother. Enjoy your well earned rest.

HiBaller
April 28th, 2018, 04:16 PM
Thank you both of you for what you have tried to do. In my correspondence with Peter I have appreciated your efforts and his frustration and as the level of interest is so low why bother. Enjoy your well earned rest.

It was a long run, that's for sure. We started in TS2004 with a crew of around 15 hard-core and another 10 supporters. It took us over 2 years to complete version 1. Each new iteration of the route left us with fewer supporters. It is a natural thing to lose support and I don't hold any grudges at all. In fact, I welcome the continued support for the route. I'm afraid what happened is the game changed under us. New "rules" for content changing with no or little notice which we found only when we received warnings or errors we had to fix. Then, the game engine changed far enough to give us more grief. Now, with TANE SP2, we've reached the end. There is no way to fit our admittedly old route to the "new" vagaries of TANE. Nobody knows what the next-greatest version of TANE will bring in the way of killing off routes with a proven track record simply by ruling our content as "outdated" even though it still functions perfectly as content with a build number of 2.7. What is odd to me is a game which makes functioning content stop functioning simply by legislating it out of existence by rules. The original content is visible in-game and functions as it ever used to, yet without changing a great deal of the text in the Config file, we cannot keep it going.

Sorry, I'm ranting and I didn't intend to.

Bill