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jordon412
October 18th, 2016, 10:10 AM
I've always had a problem with routes similar to fishlipsatworks's HOG/DEM routes. The reason why is because I have a hard time making routes from scratch, even though the terrain and location of roads, rivers, track, etc. is already shown. After a while, I end up losing interest, due to it taking much more time to create than routes that modifying routes have already been built. Does anyone have any advice on how to complete a HOG/DEM route?

SharkNose
October 18th, 2016, 11:07 AM
The only principle that worked for me in creating a Trainz route is the K.I.S.S. principle. The first "S" standing for either "simple" or "small". And the second "S", in my case, definitely stands for "stupid". Now since I don't want to insult you, you can change the second "S" to something less derogatory. :)

I'm not sure how large fishlipsatworks's routes are, but the only route I ever finished completely was only 4 baseboards big. It resides on the DLS as "Foustwell, PA" under my username. Another thing that might have helped me finish it was there was a time limit. It stopped me from dwelling too long on a certain area or task.

So, keep it simple and small and maybe set your self a deadline (or series of deadlines) to accomplish certain tasks. EDIT: Maybe you can slice up your HOG/DEM route into smaller chunks...

Having said all this, I will now admit to having probably close to 100 unfinished larger routes in various backup stages sitting on an external hard drive on my shelf. :p

Good Luck!

Andrew

JCitron
October 18th, 2016, 11:19 AM
, I will now admit to having probably close to 100 unfinished larger routes in various backup stages sitting on an external hard drive on my shelf. :p

Good Luck!

Andrew

Don't we all! :)

There are way too many projects that get started and shelved just like a bunch of Beethoven sonatas I've worked on over the years, and just like these piano pieces and so many more like them, I drag out these unfinished routes periodically and give them a little bit of work and then go on to another project.

This is what makes a hobby fun.

cascaderailroad
October 18th, 2016, 11:29 AM
I am lead to believe that HOG terrain is much less detailed and accurate than Transdem. HOG oftentimes tears and rips terrain, making huge cliffs and tall chasms, as when you peel a round orange and try to flatten it, it tears. The Fishlipsatwork Horseshoe Curve HOG DEM has many serious flaws there these 200' tall cliffs deform the terrain. Unless you could use 1/9th detailed satellite data ... a HOG DEM would be dull, rounded, less detailed, terrain

jordon412
October 18th, 2016, 12:39 PM
I'm trying to do fishlipsatwork's 'GSMR', which is a model of the tourist railway Great Smoky Mountains Railroad. It features the route between Dillsboro, North Carolina and Bryson City, NC. I also have the problem of trying to figure out what the numerous different colors on the route. I have a good idea of the colors (red = road, light blue = railroad, dark blue = water), however, I am uncertain what the different 'color tones' mean; such as, what does a darker read mean compared to a lighter color red? However, I wish there was a model of the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum, because I know the place like the back of my hand, so it might be a bit easier than the Great Smoky Mountains Railroad. I think I'll check with Matt3985 to see if he could get the guy who made the map for his Illinois Railway Museum to make a model of the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum.

JCitron
October 18th, 2016, 01:31 PM
The darker red lines are power lines. Lighter reds maybe different kinds of power lines. Your best bet is to verify what the lines are by comparing what's on a Bing or Google Earth image and what the map indicates.

These old HOG-generated maps are great for a general gist of the area for fictional routes, however, they do not hold up well for accurate maps due to the very nature of the process and the inaccuracy of the original TIGER map overlays. There are cases where the overlays can be off by as much as 10 or 20 meters if not more. In cases like this, the tracks are placed on top of hills, in riverbeds, and other impossible locations, and it takes much finagling and fussing around to get things into a semblance of order and close to their accurate location.

Because of this inaccuracy these maps cannot be merged in with prototype TransDem generated terrain and maps. The terrain in many cases is off by as much as a half baseboard or more, which makes lining up the topology, let alone the ROW absolutely impossible.

If you want some simple, this is how I do it type quick tutorials on using TransDEM, post here and I'll post a link to my two small documents on this.

jjslll54
October 18th, 2016, 06:16 PM
Hi JC,

Do you know of any Transdem maps of the Feather River route? I'd be willing to pay a few bucks for anyone to do one. I have the hog route, but if it is off like you say, it would be nice to get a more accurate map. Thanks

Jack

Vern
October 19th, 2016, 08:14 AM
Don't we all! :)

There are way too many projects that get started and shelved just like a bunch of Beethoven sonatas I've worked on over the years, and just like these piano pieces and so many more like them, I drag out these unfinished routes periodically and give them a little bit of work and then go on to another project.

This is what makes a hobby fun.

Ain't that the truth and in all three of the big sims, too. My great laptop crash in August provided an unintentional culling and others have been voluntarily retired.

To keep this vaguely OT I would strongly recommend the OP invests in a copy of Transdem, asking other users of the program to supply DEM'ed routes is generally frowned on both by the author and those of us who have supported it financially. The only drawback, is that it becomes so easy to set out the mapped and terraformed terrain, distraction by the possibility of another more interesting project becomes eternally possible. Ergo the collection of half started/half finished projects as noted.

jordon412
October 19th, 2016, 11:34 AM
From what you say, it appears to seem easy. However, I've looked into it, and it just looks a bit more complex for me to understand. Remember, I'm autistic, and that has in the past made things seem more complex than they actually are. Otherwise, I'd have finished college instead of having to drop out because my GPA fell below what's needed in order to get a Hope Scholarship.

JCitron
October 19th, 2016, 12:20 PM
From what you say, it appears to seem easy. However, I've looked into it, and it just looks a bit more complex for me to understand. Remember, I'm autistic, and that has in the past made things seem more complex than they actually are. Otherwise, I'd have finished college instead of having to drop out because my GPA fell below what's needed in order to get a Hope Scholarship.

Everything takes time... Go at this in little bits rather than trying to do big things all at once.

The same with college too. Take a few classes rather than trying to take a full course load, which can be difficult if due to many reasons.

Vern
October 19th, 2016, 03:26 PM
Transdem does come with very good Help and Tutorials but as with anything train sim related, you get back out what you are prepared to put in. And the process is relatively easy compared to some of the more advanced elements of route building! :)

danddhud
October 19th, 2016, 05:24 PM
I'm currently working on a Fishlipsatwork(Cajon Pass) and a Checkrail map(Powder River Basin). Unfortunately my K.I.S.S. seems to be at times Keep It Stupid Simple? The one thing that helps me is constantly looking at Google maps. The bad thing it doesn't show how things used to be. Whatever area you're working on somebody, somewhere probably has posted something on it-Google it. Clicking on roads in google maps also helps me a lot so I can get an eye level view of the surroundings. Problem is there ain't roads every where a train track is. If you're not sure what a color is suppose to be look at it from the sky. Take it slow it will burn you out if you let it-take a break and go run some trains on something you already have. Also you might want to make CDP's of whatever map you're working on from time to time and save just in case?
Dean

SharkNose
October 19th, 2016, 06:33 PM
Also you might want to make CDP's of whatever map you're working on from time to time and save just in case?
Dean

That should be Rule Number 1 on any route builders list! :)