PDA

View Full Version : Sessions



funnnyfarm
October 11th, 2016, 10:00 AM
When I get out of trainz I save the route and create a new session. In Manage Content the sessions are getting numerous, can I delete the old ones without affecting the route? Thanks for all the fun funnnyfarm

shaneturner12
October 11th, 2016, 10:03 AM
Can I ask why you are creating a new session rather than overwriting the existing one? My guess is that you are using Edit Route rather than Edit Session on the main Routes screen.

In terms of removing existing ones, make sure you know which ones you are dealing with first.

Shane

oknotsen
October 11th, 2016, 10:50 AM
Edit the route.
Does it contain everything it should have according to you or are you missing stuff?

If it contains all it should have, you can delete any session you like to delete.

If it NOT contains all it should have, try to find the session that accidentally contains the content that should actually be in the route, merge it into the route, save and repeat the previous step.

stagecoach
October 11th, 2016, 02:26 PM
The session contains all the names you may have given some assets. It also contains any driver instructions you may have used. It is always best to edit the route via edit session and then save both the route and session together, this saves having many sessions linked to the map. Almost all the old sessions may not work with the map as you have created new track, moved track, placed signals and industry etc. The session can only remember the route as it was when it was saved so all old sessions can be deleted.

oknotsen
October 11th, 2016, 03:20 PM
The session contains all the names you may have given some assets.So does the route, so there is absolutely no reason to save a session for that.


It is always best to edit the route via edit session and then save both the route and session togetherI totally disagree and do the absolute opposite.
When I still used your way, I ended up with loads of buildings and tracks stored in different sessions and not in the route, which totally ruined my route and the work I put into it.


Almost all the old sessions may not work with the map as you have created new track, moved track, placed signals and industry etc. The session can only remember the route as it was when it was saved so all old sessions can be deleted.Which is why you first finish a route before you start building sessions.
Alternatively, you first edit the session, move the consists of the tracks you are going to move to some area you are not going to touch, edit the route, and the put the consists back in the session.

helian43
October 12th, 2016, 03:53 AM
Very confusing as two ops, that I respect as knowledgeable, offer opposing views.
If I work on a route in the route layer, make my alterations etc and then merge the session layer into the route layer and save the route overwriting previous route/sessions will I have the latest version next time I open TANE.
I do not wait until my route is complete, many months ahead, before adding sessions with driver commands etc as I prefer to test as I go along.
If working in the route layer you merge session layer into it before saving does it save the various driver commands created in the library and if not where is the library saved to call it up in another session?
I know the answer will probably be "Use whichever method suits you best " but I just wondered if there is an approved (by N3V) method?
Cheers, helian43

JCitron
October 12th, 2016, 09:49 AM
I doubt there's an "approved method" like many things for Trainz!

* I simply do any texturing, track laying, signals, landscaping, and other infrastructure in the route layer. This even means if I see anything while in the session editing that would require a tweak. In this case I simply jot down a note or screen capture the area and go back later to fix it again in the route editor.

* I allow the saves to create and overwrite the default session because at that point it has no use to me.

When I am done and ready to setup operating sessions, I will open up the default session, place consists, and make industry config changes, like for portals, which may mean swapping layers, but this is all done within the Session context. After all my drivers are setup and I'm ready to do any testing, I save the session with a meaningful name, which lately has the route name in it too so I can keep both the route and session together in Content Manager.

Using this method, I have not recently had, knock wood, any problems with changes disappearing or things appearing in wrong places.

This is all and good, however, I wish, and oh do I so wish, that N3V would implement two things which would be helpful when dealing with layers and modes. What is so difficult with telling us which mode we're in. There could be a text-line at the top of the screen, or even along the bottom somewhere in Surveyor which says Route-Editor, and changes to Session-Editor. The reason is sometimes we get interrupted and forget which mode we're in. I've done that in the past and that has become confusing.

Regarding layers:
1) An ability to indicate which layer we're working in. The indicator could show a button-like feature at the top of the screen which is red when not active, and green when active.

2) The ability to display what items are on sublayers.

Sometimes we create sublayers under the route layer for specific objects. Knowing which objects are under a sub-layer is useful, perhaps via a check-boxed list, would allow us to simply see what's on a specific layer, and even remove an item by unchecking.

This could work in conjunction with the button-or indicator in #1, and is helpful too for "flattening" layers when items in a HOLD!!! layer for example which I use intensively for working around station platforms and industries, get moved back to the route layer when done. Clicking on a sublayer produces a list of assets under that layer. Right now we have to remember if we put items there, and when working on complex routes and sessions, this can become yet another thing to remember to do and simply get forgotten.

I know this is probably complex, but I've seen this with 3d-modeling programs such as 3ds Max and the older 3ds R4 DOS.

John

stagecoach
October 12th, 2016, 05:15 PM
I totally disagree and do the absolute opposite.
When I still used your way, I ended up with loads of buildings and tracks stored in different sessions and not in the route, which totally ruined my route and the work I put into it.

That's because you failed to do those changes in the route layer. If you had loaded those sessions and merged the session with the route all those assets would be found in the route layer next time.

stagecoach
October 12th, 2016, 05:28 PM
If I work on a route in the route layer, make my alterations etc and then merge the session layer into the route layer and save the route overwriting previous route/sessions will I have the latest version next time I open TANE.
If working in the route layer you merge session layer into it before saving does it save the various driver commands created in the library and if not where is the library saved to call it up in another session?
I know the answer will probably be "Use whichever method suits you best " but I just wondered if there is an approved (by N3V) method?
Cheers, helian43

Answer 1 is yes the saved route and session will be as you saved on exit. The route needs to be opened via the edit session or else the route will create a new session without any commands. You cant call up the driver commands in another session as they are stored in the saved session only. That is why you need to open and edit from the session of the route.

stagecoach
October 12th, 2016, 05:41 PM
2) The ability to display what items are on sublayers.

Sometimes we create sublayers under the route layer for specific objects. Knowing which objects are under a sub-layer is useful, perhaps via a check-boxed list, would allow us to simply see what's on a specific layer, and even remove an item by unchecking.

This could work in conjunction with the button-or indicator in #1, and is helpful too for "flattening" layers when items in a HOLD!!! layer for example which I use intensively for working around station platforms and industries, get moved back to the route layer when done. Clicking on a sublayer produces a list of assets under that layer. Right now we have to remember if we put items there, and when working on complex routes and sessions, this can become yet another thing to remember to do and simply get forgotten.
John
Just switch off all the other layers and you will be left with what is on your sub layer.

helian43
October 13th, 2016, 04:37 AM
Thank you Stagecoach & John Citron for your very useful guidance regarding sessions and routes.

Stagecoach:- Your explanation regarding driver commands now makes sense to me as to why I kept losing my driver commands.....simple when you know how. But just to clarify ... I start TANE, select the saved route, open "edit route" then edit in the session layer. Any and all alterations will be amended to the route layer. Then on completion merge session layer into route layer before exiting OR just save and exit.

Like J Citron writes "advancing years sometimes causes Brain Farts" and I just required a little reassurance.

Again, many thanks and keep on trainzing.
helian43 aka Ian.

JCitron
October 13th, 2016, 10:27 AM
Just switch off all the other layers and you will be left with what is on your sub layer.

Yes, but then you have to go around and click the individual assets and change them separately. How about a list with checkboxes? There could be a select all checkbox at the top or individual checkboxes next to each asset.

The need to tweak individual items is both a blessing and a curse with Surveyor. The individual tweaking is great 90% of the time, but there are times when global functions are necessary and this is one of those instances.

stagecoach
October 13th, 2016, 11:14 AM
Thank you Stagecoach & John Citron for your very useful guidance regarding sessions and routes.

Stagecoach:- Your explanation regarding driver commands now makes sense to me as to why I kept losing my driver commands.....simple when you know how. But just to clarify ... I start TANE, select the saved route, open "edit route" then edit in the session layer. Any and all alterations will be amended to the route layer. Then on completion merge session layer into route layer before exiting OR just save and exit.

Like J Citron writes "advancing years sometimes causes Brain Farts" and I just required a little reassurance.

Again, many thanks and keep on trainzing.
helian43 aka Ian.

If you have driver commands in a session you will need to select the route then click to get into the sessions for the route then select and open edit session. If you open edit route your previous commands will not be loaded as a new session is created which is blank. Merge session layer only merges assets that have been placed on the session layer, the commands will not save to the route but remain in that session. On completion and exit you will be asked to save both route and session.

helian43
October 14th, 2016, 04:24 AM
Tks Stagecoach for the info.
helian43