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Alco_P-A
September 2nd, 2016, 10:30 PM
Well,well,well. How about this. TS2017 and TSW. Promo's look good. Wonder what Trainz is going to do now?

petrama25
September 2nd, 2016, 10:54 PM
Definitely a beautiful looking sim. As long as they get the content creation tools done right, I will go over to that sim in a heartbeat lol.

H222
September 2nd, 2016, 11:13 PM
Well,well,well. How about this. TS2017 and TSW. Promo's look good. Wonder what Trainz is going to do now?

They're probably going to continue developing their sim, since the very large Trainz fanbase is predominantly loyal and full of people who, despite the Sim's faults and their grievances with management, want to see it continue.

Whoop, a trailer looks nice, better throw in the towel

martinvk
September 2nd, 2016, 11:47 PM
The expression "talk the talk ... walk the walk" comes to mind.

Interesting that they have started TSW from scratch with no compatibility with anything that has gone before. A bold but potentially risky move. Lets them take all previous errors off the table but also removes all the good stuff too. Everyone will have to rebuild all of their asset collections again. Meanwhile their TS2017 will be running in parallel without any connection possible. Since TS12 and T:ANE can also run in parallel but with the added benefit that the best of TS12 can also be used in T:ANE, I think that's a plus for Trainz.

They also mentioned looking at several simulation engines. Most they said were only good for local simulation whereas a train simulator needs to create a complete world both near and far which is why they settled on the UE4. Being an off-the-shelf solution, I wonder how much they have or even can modify it for train specific simulation demands? With Trainz using their own E2, they have to risk all the development but with the advantage of also being able to customize it exactly as they needed.

Some of the images are quite spectacular but nothing that hasn't been seen before given a completely modern asset. A "DirectX 10 Compatible GPU with 2 GB Video RAM" doesn't appear to be too demanding. If that's all they need, hats off.

Since driving canned routes is only part of the fun, I'm also waiting to see how easy it will be to modify and create new routes, as well as making new assets. Will it be an open world welcoming all who want to add to it or a closed shop?

Will be watching this developing story to see how it pans out. Healthy competition is good and keeps everyone on their toes. :)

Vinnie264
September 2nd, 2016, 11:49 PM
They're probably going to continue developing their sim, since the very large Trainz fanbase is predominantly loyal and full of people who, despite the Sim's faults and their grievances with management, want to see it continue.

Whoop, a trailer looks nice, better throw in the towel
Define large.

pdkoester
September 3rd, 2016, 01:44 AM
I'm definitely adding TSW to my collection, the CSX looks so great, and the details are awesome.

davesnow
September 3rd, 2016, 01:49 AM
Their version of "Surveyor" sucks dog beans.

petrama25
September 3rd, 2016, 02:28 AM
Yeah I agree with you Dave on that one. Their content system is nothing to be proud of either. Seriously makes me frustrated just to get a reskin to work, (Which I have not gotten to happen lol) Much of the reason I love trainz for the simplicity of stuff like this. UE4s editor is downright amazing. Hopefully they will implement a similar spline type system to trainz. Time will tell come february if this game is going to be good or not.

cascaderailroad
September 3rd, 2016, 03:25 AM
Tell me:
Is the surveyor, actually building a route all that difficult to use ?
Will the game require at least hundreds of dollars of payware locos and railcars ?

I once had a dog that had no nose ... How did he smell ? ... Awful !

amigacooke
September 3rd, 2016, 04:32 AM
It seems unclear whether TSW will be a railway simulator or follow in the tradition of their present product and just be a railway driving simulator.

kin3
September 3rd, 2016, 08:27 AM
They have in the past built pretty routes. I built one and enjoyed doing it. Then tried to run two trains on the same track, NO CAN DO. I came back to Trainz.

dtw11542
September 3rd, 2016, 08:44 AM
I have been with TS 2016 and previously Railworks for 5 years.

Purchased T:ANE on the 7th August this year.

Neither are perfect and no sim ever will be.

But what I am really enjoying with T:ANE is the drive to commands,
the fact that I can change the weather while on route and the fact
that I can Start or stop an AI at any time, plus one more thing
that I like is being able to jump to any train anywhere on the route
and start driving.

Dave.

clam1952
September 3rd, 2016, 09:43 AM
Not bothered, as long as it is a Steam only sim, I won't be using it.

kimo505
September 3rd, 2016, 09:28 PM
TSW looked awesome! I'm get'n that:D

H222
September 3rd, 2016, 10:19 PM
Define large.

Half a mil? Highest KUID I've seen is over 600,000.


It seems unclear whether TSW will be a railway simulator or follow in the tradition of their present product and just be a railway driving simulator.

I believe the term was a dark, interactive scenery sim.

chris2001trainz2010
September 3rd, 2016, 10:36 PM
I honestly can't wait for TSW. Yeah, i'm trying not to expect too much from a pre-alpha game, but this just looks...amazing, better than T:ANE does now, even after a service pack and 4 HotFixes. Being able to walk around comes to mind...it's stuff like this that hasn't been done before, and it makes the game stand out. And hey, if it's not for you, TS2017 is still gonna be supported through TSW's development, and probably even after it's released. I dunno, i'll probably watch the video again at some point, but for now, i'm excited for what it might bring to the table.

And no, i myself is not going to buy the game the moment or day or maybe even the month it comes out. I decided against buying T:ANE early, because i didn't know what to expect, and it's the same with TSW. This is the first time i've ever seen a game this innovative in the train-sim market, and i wanna wait a bit after it comes out to read up on people's thoughts and opinions before getting the game for myself. If i had bought T:ANE when it was first released, i would've sent it back claiming it was a beta version of the game: that's how unfinished and buggy it was. Basically, i don't want to make the same mistake with TSW, if it does turn out to be a failure.

In the end, i'm eager to see what DTG will give us to chew on, but i'm not gonna buy the game on day one due to how poor T:ANE was when it was first released (and still kinda is), for fear of TSW being the same way (even though it probably won't).


I believe the term was a dark, interactive scenery sim.
Oooh i see we have our first hater, huh? We'll save a seat for ya when Tony and his Titanic go under.

martinvk
September 3rd, 2016, 11:02 PM
...


In the end, i'm eager to see what DTG will give us to chew on, but i'm not gonna buy the game on day one due to how poor T:ANE was when it was first released (and still kinda is), for fear of TSW being the same way (even though it probably won't).[careful, that is close to fanboi territory. :o



Oooh i see we have our first hater, huh? We'll save a seat for ya when Tony and his Titanic go under.sigh, only page two and this already? Besides, what's so wrong with "a dark, interactive scenery sim?" Their colours are generally darker, more gritty, there is an interactive element to some of it, there is lots of scenery and it is a sim.

petrama25
September 3rd, 2016, 11:16 PM
The thing that makes me wonder is why they are marketing it as CSX Heavy Haul. Is this going to be the only route included in the sim? I would hope not...

EverTrainz
September 3rd, 2016, 11:23 PM
TSW looks great. T:ANE looked great in the trailer.

Look at the amount of vertices on those Geeps! If we've got folks here bugging over the low frames with what low-poly content we've got now, I can't wait to hear the cries from the other side when people expect the engine to run on integrated graphics.

To stay on the same level, N3V would be best doing is hiring a set of content creators to create extremely-stunning routes and high-detail content to go with it. What we've got now is great, but everyone's off on their own tangent. No real cooperation for a high-detail route goal, all doing what they wish. Which is how it should be, we have to pay people to stick to the plan. Hobby is just that, if people are paid there's a whole other side to creating. I imagine the move to Unreal will give the TS content creators a broad slap to the face, now they've got the task of pushing the actual engine room and interiors, if they want to keep up. It looks like I'll love TSW for the game, not really from the content creating aspect.

To compete with TS2017, hire a set of dedicated content creators and release regionally-targeted releases with a few medium-sized routes from each (and make it available overseas!).

Vern
September 4th, 2016, 02:23 AM
At least unlike TANE with the "target graphics" Photo-Shopped images, that never came to fruition DTG have provided a demo from a working alpha as proof of concept.

As someone who embraces all sims we have to be careful how we discuss a competitor product here so as not to offend our hosts, however I think Tony & co really need to sit up and sniff the air on this one... The deed is done with TANE but for "Next" they need to be considering that same quantum leap, perhaps.

In particular casting off the shackles of backward compatibility but retaining support for and nurturing the legacy product is a very wise move for DTG, obviously Matt Peddlesen couldn't say in as many words but I suspect that was a lesson learned from N3V.

Of course the presentation (from a virtual Marseilles station) was heavily scripted and managed but there was enough there to be very positive. My concerns as Mr. Pragmatic are, 1 x US route is not going to offer global appeal and for the UK we need to see a demo of a HST in the West Country or a Class 37 on a rusty mineral line. And my principal fear is that, although apparently user tools are being provided, these or the utilities to support them will be far beyond the skills or financial ability of the hobby builder producing the odd freeware route. So don't ditch TANE, TS12 or MSTS/ORTS just yet as they might still end up as the go to place for building your own world.

boleyd
September 4th, 2016, 06:42 AM
I was an early adopter of the beginning of this product line. It had great promise until Sir Paul turned it into a game, which is his background. Development ceased and the appearance suffered as well as the program being unable to perform some normal railroad tasks. I still have the TS2016 on my system and occasionally look at it to see if anything changed, but alas, no changes outside of gaming improvements. I am not going to drop $45 US for a TS2017 pioneering version. We have all been down that route.

wholbr
September 4th, 2016, 06:56 AM
Hi everybody.
As someone who purchased almost all versions of Trainz prior to T:ane, I feel that the greatest threat to this sim does not come from the Dovetail simulator but events in the wider gaming world announced in the last week or so.

In the above, I have found windows gaming in recent years over complex and in that respect Trainz less enjoyable as a hobby. I realize that many find the complexity of windows gaming very much part of the enjoyment, but for me like many others the simplicity of the mobile gaming platforms has become ever more attractive as the apps and the devices to engage in that gaming have become ever more powerful.

Therefore, the announcement that the 1.8 million android gaming apps on the Google play store would be made available on the Google OS platform a few months ago “raised many eyebrows”. It was expected that it would take many months for the plans to come to any sort of fruition, (if ever). However, in the last two weeks three OS platform devices have received the ability to download and run Android apps with google announcing that over fifty more will receive the same upgrade and ability prior to Christmas.

The importance of the foregoing means that Google mobile apps will now be available to be enjoyed on large screen laptops and desktops running the google OS platform throughout the world. Apple have also announced (I believe) similar plans for the merger of the iphone/ipad IOS platform with Mac devices which will have the same large screen benefits for its users.

Many analysts are now expressing the view that the above developments have “completely reset the scene” in the gaming industry as there will be an ability to enjoy the same game on a large or small screens, indoors or out.

The foregoing development along with the the new environment of augmented reality gaming puts mobile platform developers firmly in the driving seat in terms of customer attraction into the future. I do believe that the windows pc gaming platform will continue, but it will become a niche market for very high end gaming with perhaps the present problem of finding gaming app developers wishing to produce for such a market increasing.

Bill

chris2001trainz2010
September 4th, 2016, 07:25 AM
careful, that is close to fanboi territory. :o

There's a difference between being a "fanboi" and trusting in a company. A fanboi believes N3V can do no wrong and will continue supporting N3V to no end, even supporting them when they do something most of the community disagrees with. Being loyal to a company usually means the company has a good record when it comes to titles under their belt, and since Railworks all the way up to TS2016 are all pretty solid titles, i think DTG has earned their loyal fanbase. I may not use TS2016 as much as TS12, but i trust in DTG to make a quality game as they have before (except for the franchise becoming DLC Quest 2.0).


sigh, only page two and this already? Besides, what's so wrong with "a dark, interactive scenery sim?" Their colours are generally darker, more gritty, there is an interactive element to some of it, there is lots of scenery and it is a sim.

Based on H222's delivery and overall view towards this coming game and it's possible fanbase, he's saying this as if the trains aren't going to be the main focus, and that it's just gonna be "Screenshot Sim World", which is very unlikely. Yeah, the colors are darker, and the shading isn't as bright as what he might be used to in T:ANE, but the real world can be like that, and it adds to the game's realism.

Besides, this is a "train simulator". Does that automatically mean it has to look bright and cheery like a Thomas lover's newest fan character? I don't think so.


...but for "Next" they need to be considering that same quantum leap, perhaps.

I tell ya, if NEXT really is gonna be a subscription based service like it was rumored to be, then DTG is gonna overtake N3V in every way possible with the eventual release of TSW (maybe).

cascaderailroad
September 4th, 2016, 07:33 AM
If you can't easily create your own route in a sim, and do all the multitude of things "that you can do" in Trainz ... that steers me away from a "driving" game, that has a gigantic HUD blocking the view

Vern
September 4th, 2016, 07:53 AM
@Bill - If the Android version of Trainz is so popular, why are there tumbleweeds, er, tumbling in the Android section of this very forum?

I bought the Android version of Trainz to try while my laptop was away being repaired and it is utter crap. @2003 era routes, trains with unrealistic performance, a Class 37 that uses the original Auran Alco sound. No means to filter available content except by scrolling down a very long list of items, many with little or no information as to whether you're getting a decent route or a circle of track on a blank baseboard. Creating a route with a finger pen on screen and the limited assets supplied is a non-starter. Not to mention the storage capacity on the Android would be filled up with one decent sized PC version route and all its assets.

Leave the tablets for Clash of Clans and Boom Beach, the PC is where programmes such as Trainz and indeed TSW belong.

clam1952
September 4th, 2016, 08:06 AM
I tell ya, if NEXT really is gonna be a subscription based service like it was rumored to be, then DTG is gonna overtake N3V in every way possible with the eventual release of TSW (maybe).

As I read it, only the Multiplayer surveyor is going to be subscription based, maybe....

robd
September 4th, 2016, 08:58 AM
TSW:

I wasn't aware of TSW so I Googled it. Here's a link for those that are in the dark like myself. Very pretty graphics, much better than any version of Trainz - judging by the screenshots!


http://train-simulator.com/ (http://train-simulator.com/)

martinvk
September 4th, 2016, 10:19 AM
Do you mean the image of a CSX 232 loco with the fellow wearing the white hardhat in front? Looking at it from a photographic point of view, it's an impressive picture but I wonder where all the lights are coming from. Is this all in game as-is?

Alco_P-A
September 4th, 2016, 11:23 AM
It will be cool if you can really climb up in the cab and drive the train. The more N3v or TS2017 can make their train games more like the real thing instead just simulation I'm all for that.

wholbr
September 4th, 2016, 12:03 PM
Hi everybody.

@Bill - If the Android version of Trainz is so popular, why are there tumbleweeds, er, tumbling in the Android section of this very forum?
I bought the Android version of Trainz to try while my laptop was away being repaired and it is utter crap

Vern, the current Android version of Trainz is at least four years old and without any update in all that time. I would agree with you that it is complete crap, not popular, and by comparison with much else that is available by way of gaming on the Android platform at present very poor. That stated, the vast majority of apps on that platform at prsent are in my opinion great.

However, my posting at #22 of this thread was in regard to the future of large screen gaming on Android and the Apple IOS platforms which many feel in the light of recent developments is a real game changer ( pun intended ).:D

Edit:, these are the Google OS system devices google Andriod will be running on along with the 21 inch screen of the Google OS desktop http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwyMH8wS0

Bill

whitepass
September 4th, 2016, 01:57 PM
As a content creator I would never make for that, I could not get the detail they have as you would need to have the real thing to go over and photograph, something most of us can not do. Most of what I make is no longer here or in a museum.

wilts747
September 4th, 2016, 02:18 PM
I must admit the current Train Simulator TS2016 graphics are very impressive and I'm sure their 2017 edition will quite likely to be even better but to owning the simulator is akin to building a model railway where every add-on is an additional cost, hence I opted for Trainz which even with the occasional shortfall I believe has still been the right decision for me.

As for the Android version of Trainz considering it is four years old, will run on a device, readily available for less than £50 in the UK with practically no processing power and even less RAM it has been quite an achievement and even more so when compared with the cost and computing assets required to run T:ANE under Windows. Peter

robd
September 4th, 2016, 02:43 PM
TSW:

I wasn't aware of TSW so I Googled it. Here's a link for those that are in the dark like myself. Very pretty graphics, much better than any version of Trainz - judging by the screenshots!


(http://train-simulator.com/)http://train-simulator.com/




Do you mean the image of a CSX 232 loco with the fellow wearing the white hardhat in front? Looking at it from a photographic point of view, it's an impressive picture but I wonder where all the lights are coming from. Is this all in game as-is?

Having browsed around the TSW site I'm quite impressed by the quality of all the screenshots, if they're indicative of the quality of the game/sim then it's got hold of Trainz at the bollocks!

Rob.

EverTrainz
September 4th, 2016, 05:53 PM
I don't want to have to create fully-interactive models, TSW's got the adaptability as GTA. Nobody want to spend freetime creating models that comply with Unreal standards, if you have the ability to spend much time on that as a 'hobby', you definitely deserve to make it a payware model, and a damn-costly one, at that.

TS2017, I take back what I'd earlier said; it's the same as TS2016, 15, 14 with a slew of routes, which is what makes the game costly: effort from content creators. They don't care to add advanced graphics, as long as the content is long-standing and very good. N3V favors spending money on a slamming new engine, rather than paying to have stellar content made. 2 different routes here (even if on has been funded by the company).

cascaderailroad
September 4th, 2016, 06:29 PM
I watched the Johnstown to Altoona video, and the terrain is way off, and looks like pristine well manicured parkland, where in real life the areas has steep cliffs and rocky cuts, with copperhead and timber rattler infested stickerbush, a real no mans land jungle of kidzu. Besides having the Johnstown station canopy missing, as well as the Cassandra Overlook iron bridge missing, the Cresson flyover is vaguely represented as to what what it should be in PRR days. If I had this sim I would want to be able to edit the route, and correct allot of the inadequacies, and the RJ Corman Irvona line is missing, as well as the NantyGlo branch. I would not want a huge HUD taking up the majority of the screen ... etc ... etc ...

Beware of good looks ... that goes for women also !

Vern
September 5th, 2016, 02:12 AM
watched the Johnstown to Altoona video, and the terrain is way off, and looks like pristine well manicured parkland

Well that is "old" TS/Railworks, which frankly does suffer badly when it comes to how the terrain is painted. Train Sim world (which is what we're discussing here) will be a different beast altogether (I hope).


I don't want to have to create fully-interactive models, TSW's got the adaptability as GTA. Nobody want to spend freetime creating models that comply with Unreal standards, if you have the ability to spend much time on that as a 'hobby', you definitely deserve to make it a payware model, and a damn-costly one, at that.

This I fear could be the Achilles Heel of TSW and why, much to my own surprise, despite being excited by the prospect of a new sim I have serious doubts that it will sit comfortably within the paradigm of home/hobby level freeware creation. We know that the DTG business model very much revolves around selling high quality DLC to finance their product and this will I feel be their No.1 priority on release.

So I find myself actually wanting to defend Trainz (within reason) during this interesting period, but with the caveat that Tony and his team must take heed of what's happening in Chatham. This is probably not the place for a new Trainz wish list, but I would say the first essential has got to be the much requested built in scenario and timetable editor* for the player train. No clunky "session" command instruction compiling. Crisp and clean. And, please get rid of those red/green point indicators which shout UTC.

*Even the freeware Open Rails (aka MSTS++) has a built in timetable compiler.

wholbr
September 5th, 2016, 03:09 AM
Hi everybody.
Is there any prospective release date for TSW as this sim was first announced over two years ago. I like many had given up on the project ever "seeing the light of day" being DGs commitment to relaunching windows flight simulator and their move into other mobile market platforms

So, is there any release date or is this just a ploy to gain advertising for Train Simulator 17 which was also spoken about in the same advertising brief that I watched.

Bill

Vern
September 5th, 2016, 06:37 AM
I'm fairly certain in the presentation it mentions something like December for public beta access and "go live" sometime in Spring 2017.

amigacooke
September 5th, 2016, 06:55 AM
I believe a February 2017 launch date was mentioned in the video.

rftech60
September 5th, 2016, 09:28 AM
Public BETA in Dec this year.release Feb 2017.so we won't have long to wait to see it in reality.
Peronally I think it will blow all the other train sims out of the water.But as I said we will soon be able to judge for ourselves

Herlev
September 6th, 2016, 03:33 AM
Hi Whats the new Trains Website
Tonny

Vern
September 6th, 2016, 04:03 AM
Hi Whats the new Trains Website
Tonny

Would suggest Google is your friend (type in Train Sim World) as I seriously doubt N3V want a direct link to a potential competing product openly posted.

wholbr
September 6th, 2016, 06:14 AM
Hi everybody

Would suggest Google is your friend (type in Train Sim World) as I seriously doubt N3V want a direct link to a potential competing product openly posted.

And very diplomatically put to Vern. Five stars for that posting and I think you should apply to the civil service of an Ambassador position straight away.:D

Bill

Vern
September 6th, 2016, 06:26 AM
Hi everybody


And very diplomatically put to Vern. Five stars for that posting and I think you should apply to the civil service of an Ambassador position straight away.:D

Bill

That brought a smile to my face Bill.

As a Fat (well not so much these days) Controller in the real rail industry, diplomacy comes with the territory - as does not being afraid to be assertive when the occasion demands it...

In actual fact, I'm surprised this thread has remained in GD as long as it has, most topics regarding the "competition" end up in Prototype Talk or Community.

boleyd
September 6th, 2016, 06:58 AM
If you peel away the game elements then what are the major developments? Just take one biggie - cars can only couple once in the present RW. I discovered a workaround but it is awkward. There are more basic items like this. Visually the present ground texture is slime compared to TANE. From the clip I can't see enough to be sure that was changed. Presently the elevation mesh, the distance between points, is 8 meters compared to TANE at 5 meters. Then what is the granularity of those points vertically. A new electronic scoreboard is not sufficient.

Given that RW is very close to a pure game now, the need for complexity is low. You will not see things like Rules and Commands unless they spend a lot of programming money with very little return on investment. Hardcore train enthusiasts are a small portion of the market. N3V inherited these expensive elements. To their credit, instead of freezing them in-place, they continue to offer changes that aid in their operation.

Selling addons is the main revenue stream for both companies. So the future really boils down to the appearance and functionality of those purchases.

H222
September 6th, 2016, 07:03 AM
Oooh i see we have our first hater, huh? We'll save a seat for ya when Tony and his Titanic go under.


Idk man from the sounds of the rest of your post (cropped to save everyone else a headache) it seems you'd know a hater when you see one. I have Railworks on Steam, I probably have 3 hours on it. The graphics, IMO, are overrated. Sorry.

Titanic can go down. Trainz'll still work. I'll keep playing that when I have time. Not an impossible concept. People still play MSTS

PS You're saying a trailer looks better than an actual game. Well, yeah. The TANE trailer looked better than TANE does as well. Most usually do. Battlefield 3 is probably the biggest exception here.

wilsonj844
September 6th, 2016, 07:51 AM
Idk man from the sounds of the rest of your post (cropped to save everyone else a headache) it seems you'd know a hater when you see one. I have Railworks on Steam, I probably have 3 hours on it. The graphics, IMO, are overrated. Sorry.

Titanic can go down. Trainz'll still work. I'll keep playing that when I have time. Not an impossible concept. People still play MSTS

PS You're saying a trailer looks better than an actual game. Well, yeah. The TANE trailer looked better than TANE does as well. Most usually do. Battlefield 3 is probably the biggest exception here.
I'm afraid I must I agree. my son tried to me into railwoks, but it didn't have the graphics, or the sandbox capabilities to rival trainz. 4
I'm trainz all the way:p

pware
September 6th, 2016, 05:36 PM
It will be interesting to see how this pans out over the next, say, 12 months.

Over the years I can recall similar enthusiastic posts about upcoming releases of new train sims that will "knock Trainz out of the market", usually all based on a YouTube clip or a few "screenshots", yet Trainz is still here.

I am not saying that it won't eventually happen (even the Model T Ford eventually ended its run) nor am I saying that Trainz is or has been a perfect product or doesn't need a competitor to keep it "on its toes". But so far I have not come across a rival train sim that matches or exceeds its sandbox capabilities, ease of route building, wide range of freely available downloadable assets as well as the relatively low cost of available paid for content.

robogo
September 7th, 2016, 08:07 AM
I think the future of the train simulators, any real world simulators really, lies in selling content.

These guys are on the right track, once they have the Unreal engine sorted to work for them they will have a very solid base in a very beautiful and capable engine from which they can create good content to sell for the next decade +

That CSX Heavy Haul looks fantastic, and I bet that is from a low to mid spec PC, no, once this is released it's gonna be unreal compared to anything else.

pware
September 7th, 2016, 09:00 AM
I think the future of the train simulators, any real world simulators really, lies in selling content.

That may be the case and, if so, it could very well price a lot of users out of the market if payware becomes the focus instead of downloadable free community created content like the DLS. Another possibility is to adopt the Electronic Arts model with a major new release every year. But I suspect that many current Train Sim users may find that, like the subscription model that has been "floated" for the NEXT TANE, to be unacceptable.

Obviously, game/simulation creators have to make money to survive but too much commercialisation can easily turn away the very users that they need to purchase their product, especially in a smaller niche market like train sims.


That CSX Heavy Haul looks fantastic, and I bet that is from a low to mid spec PC, no, once this is released it's gonna be unreal compared to anything else.

As many have pointed out, looks can be deceiving. It is usability, functionality, the ease of creating new content, etc, etc that will make or break a Train Sim.

robogo
September 7th, 2016, 04:26 PM
I don't think these guys are still trying to figure out what kind of business model to use, a quick browse of all the content in their store is a clear indicator that they exactly know how to make money and grow a business in this market.

One thing that we already know for an absolute certainty is that the Unreal Engine is indeed capable of the kind of imagery that is shown with the CSX Big Haul teaser, no deceiving there, and these guys have the experience, they know what it takes to move a train from point A to B.

The CSX Big Haul will set a new bench mark, from that point onwards everything else will be compared to it, you'll see.

martinvk
September 7th, 2016, 04:48 PM
The CSX Big Haul will set a new bench mark,Could we borrow your crystal ball since you seem to know exactly what the as yet released sim can do? Hoping that it will be better is one thing, claiming that it will be better is another. There is more to a complete railroad simulator than just looking pretty, it actually has to operate realistically and offer all the basic things like easy creation capabilities too, for example. Just because the Unreal Engine has certain capabilities, doesn't mean it has been fully and properly implemented. Perhaps we should wait and see the released product before making definite pronouncements as to what it will or will not be.

robogo
September 7th, 2016, 05:28 PM
Okay, I'll come back in the not to distant future and do the "I told you so" thing.

It does not take a crystal ball, just be realistic, ask yourself, which parts of the current TS routes or trains or stuff does not operate realistically, and clearly the easy creation capabilities thing does not feature in the TS needs list of things that a railroad sim should have or should be.

It does not take a genius to understand that the next sims is by default going to be much prettier, and it does not take a crystal ball to see that in the not so distant future our cars and our trains will drive themselves and that the Russians or Chinese will be the first to set foot on Mars.

pware
September 7th, 2016, 05:31 PM
I will respectfully disagree with you about the Russians.

cascaderailroad
September 7th, 2016, 05:35 PM
Ish has already been to Mars :cool: In reality why would anyone want to take a 4 year trip to get there, and sending minerals back to Earth would be ridiculous ... actually surviving there would be like living in a suicide bunker, that could be destroyed, and run out of air at any time, by a meteorite or super storm, or extreme heat or cold

Is there another Train Sim, besides Trainz, that has an easy to use Surveyor, to edit and build your own routes, and edit assets ?

robogo
September 7th, 2016, 05:44 PM
I will respectfully disagree with you about the Russians.

Well, just ask yourself how the Americans is getting their a$$es up to the ISS, and back again. The Chinese then?

pware
September 7th, 2016, 05:49 PM
Don't be too surprised if India is in the finals of the "Mars event", but I suspect that it will be much more likely to be an international affair (if it ever happens) rather than a single nation effort.

robogo
September 7th, 2016, 06:00 PM
Is there another Train Sim, besides Trainz, that has an easy to use Surveyor, to edit and build your own routes, and edit assets ?

I'm not doing the TS vs. Trainz thing here, just trying to argue the merits of TS and Unreal in relation to the OP's post, but clearly the guys at TS has a different opinion of what a train sim should be and should be able to do, and it's working for them judging by the pace they are moving forward and releasing content. Just the fact that they are capable to have moved on to the Unreal Engine is testimony of their expertise I would say.

robogo
September 7th, 2016, 06:04 PM
Don't be too surprised if India is in the finals of the "Mars event", but I suspect that it will be much more likely to be an international affair (if it ever happens) rather than a single nation effort.

I agree with you on that, just the Americans won't be involved, they'll be to busy building some wall or thing.

Alco_P-A
September 7th, 2016, 06:57 PM
Trainz is still by far the easiest train to run and build and do things with. I would hope someone will come out with a more Realistic train game.

pware
September 7th, 2016, 08:38 PM
I would hope someone will come out with a more Realistic train game.

Its the old problem - do we want more realism or greater usability and flexibility? Up till now it has been one or the other with different sims going in different directions. Greater realism has often meant that it becomes more of a game than a sim. But I agree that with the steady improvements in technology, if they continue, the possibility arises of us having both.

Vern
September 8th, 2016, 02:01 AM
It's all ifs, buts and maybes at present. However I'm fairly certain as noted a couple of pages ago, DTG's No.1 priority will be selling DLC for the new platform and that catering for the hobby end creator will not be high on their priorities. We have seen that to some extent already with their existing TS20xx product, moving away from a standard "default" product to one where the base routes change each year, undocumented "improvements" to the editors which leaves those outside the inner circle of creation using trial and error to figure out how to use the new features.

All Trainz really needs is a decent timetable and scenario editor for the player train, combined with AI control of signalling and route setting - as I said earlier without complex use of scripts or commands, it could still keep the edge especially with the easy to use sandbox. Get away from the Trainz CE and UTC era of the player having to switch points and figure out the route as they go along. If the current programmers can't figure out how to do it, bring in people who can. Make a route - whether freeware or DLC payware - for TANE equal to if not more appealing than its opposite in TS20xx or the new TSW. While the base platform for running trains remains weak, despite the ease of building, when it comes to playing trains I opt for TS20xx or increasingly these days old MSTS routes in Open Rails. Despite my initial scepticism and a few ongoing issues, the latter is proving to be a very useful and competent sim.

boleyd
September 8th, 2016, 07:32 AM
I agree with most of what Vern says but I find TANE quite nice in terms of visuals. It is also very powerful because of its extensive rules and the DLS. The purge of old stuff seems near the end. Documentation is lacking for the rules which are totally disorganized. The DLS and Rules are the key elements that differentiate TANE.

The Dovey stuff will always be a game. Sir Paul Jackson is a gamer. He will make the program look pretty but there seems to be little chance he will adopt a DLS and Rules system to court a small group of people. He will release a "new" program that will look better and perform better but it will not offer customers the flexibility to create their own railroads in a realistic manner. Remember, to put food on his table, he has to SELL routes not support homemade routes. Pretty buildings, will be tolerated but trains and routes, by others, cut into his revenue.

clam1952
September 8th, 2016, 09:43 AM
Remember, to put food on his table, he has to SELL routes not support homemade routes. Pretty buildings, will be tolerated but trains and routes, by others, cut into his revenue.

Not forgetting that he will have to pay Epic for use of the UE4 engine, something like 5% if I remember correctly.

Hot_Box_Detector
February 15th, 2017, 05:48 PM
Is there a rail sim forum, other than this one, where the different sims can be discussed and compared freely? That's not meant to be a rhetorical question... I am looking for a common forum where rail sim users congregate.

Thanks

lego207
February 16th, 2017, 12:38 AM
Is there a rail sim forum, other than this one, where the different sims can be discussed and compared freely? That's not meant to be a rhetorical question... I am looking for a common forum where rail sim users congregate.

Thanks

I believe you'd like to see trainsim.com - they have sections for Trainz, Railworks/Train Sim 20xx, MSTS, etc.

Cheers,
SM

Hot_Box_Detector
February 16th, 2017, 10:23 AM
I believe you'd like to see trainsim.com - they have sections for Trainz, Railworks/Train Sim 20xx, MSTS, etc. Cheers, SM


Got it

Thanks,Durff

boleyd
February 17th, 2017, 08:24 AM
Will it be a train driving game or a "comprehensive" train simulator. No one knows until February.

amigacooke
February 17th, 2017, 09:10 AM
Will it be a train driving game or a "comprehensive" train simulator. No one knows until February.

No-one knows until March, it's been delayed.

My quick look at the beta suggested it's still just a driving simulator, but who knows what the future releases may bring.

Is it fair to say Crosstie can be crossed off?

Vern
February 17th, 2017, 09:23 AM
Railworks America also specialises in discussion of DTG product(s) but can be a bit of a minefield if you want to post something critical.

KUDE
February 18th, 2017, 05:20 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2w9qcVcEOU

pdkoester
February 18th, 2017, 01:02 PM
No-one knows until March, it's been delayed.

My quick look at the beta suggested it's still just a driving simulator, but who knows what the future releases may bring.

Is it fair to say Crosstie can be crossed off?

Nah, I'd just say on the back burner, taking in all the other elements to be better than the rest ;)