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Jayco-man
August 5th, 2016, 04:51 PM
I'm trying to put some supports under this track, but cant seem to get anything to work. What I'm I doing wrong? Thanks.https://imageshack.com/i/pmnWjQWXj

cascaderailroad
August 5th, 2016, 06:18 PM
Perhaps trackside "piers" won't attach to the bridge, so you might have to place "Scenery" building piers ... either that or raise the terrain after the bridge

JCitron
August 5th, 2016, 10:44 PM
Do you mean the track-object type - the ones that are in with switch stands, signals, speed signs, etc. ?

If you do, I had the same issue earlier this week and solved the problem by opening all the non-built-in track for editing then submitting it again.


It took me awhile because of the large amount of assets, since it's not good to open up way too many at once. I digress... I have over 5,700 different third-party track assets installed so I didn't want T:ANE to crash while processing that many so I did a couple of 100 or so at a time.

llebrez
August 6th, 2016, 01:41 AM
That bridge is too short for the span you have to cover. Suggest to add another section as the big one, or another smaller bridge. Or as being said, bring up the terrain and fill the void.

Jayco-man
August 7th, 2016, 06:57 PM
The terrain in correct, it should have some kind of supports under it. I cant tell from GE because its smashed to the ground and I cant tell. The bridge is correct too. Thanks JC that mite be the problem, when I try to add something is says something about cant add above or below layer or something. I cant member which one.

mezzoprezzo
August 8th, 2016, 04:48 AM
Where exactly is this bridge located?

If you can give the Google Earth lat/long co-ordinates someone on the Forum might be able to provide the necessary information for you. Once the location is known, research of the area can often uncover old photographs, maps and other historical data which may help with identifying how the bridge spanned the terrain in question. The approximate year you are modelling might also be useful.

Once we have a bit more information we can then possibly advise on how to construct the approaches and span on the bridge.

cascaderailroad
August 8th, 2016, 07:52 AM
I seem to remember you saying your starting point was Williamson WV, and I am supposing that this is the Tug Fork bridge, which seems to have a curved special skewed platt truss, followed up by a long series of girder bridges on each end, going over a road on one end, and this terrain depression on the other end

Try: JMR stone pier 1 <KUID:709825:100431>

Jayco-man
August 9th, 2016, 09:41 PM
That would be the bridge in Williamson in the first part of the yard that crosses the tug to the pond creek branch. The bridge in question is in Nolan just west of Williamson about 5.5 miles. 37 44.492'N 8220.031'W. I'm laying track the way it is now, but you use what ever year you want I suppose. Thanks for the help.

mezzoprezzo
August 10th, 2016, 12:28 PM
I've just checked out the GE images for the coordinates you gave. (Spot on BTW, dead centre of the bridge!).

There are no posted photos pinned to GE, and StreetView doesn't have a road close enough to see the bridge, so no visual clues there. However, the most recent image does show the bridge in a good amount of detail, although it is distorted because of the irregular terrain.

If you look at the shadows cast by the bridge and track you learn a bit more. You can make out the positions of the track support piers. As well as the two which support the girder bridge span at each end it looks as if there are three more. One is to the West, and the other two to the East side of the bridge. I've marked where they appear to be on the attached image.

The shadows on the image would also appear to confirm that the track does not have any raised terrain beneath it under the darker brown track sections on the approaches to each side of the bridge. There might also be some kind of concrete support where the light coloured ballasted track meets the brown suspended sections on each side of the bridge approach. Its hard to see what kind of structures are supporting the track at that point. There are some concrete bases on the DLS which might be suitable if the piers are too big for those bits.

As Cascaderailroad mentioned in post #2, you could place an appropriate scenery object under the appropriate three positions and raise/lower them to the correct height. That's what I would do. There are quite a few on the DLS which can be found if you search for "Bridge Pier" (make sure TRS2004 box is checked).

http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff461/fstrainz/Bridge%20supports_zpsodpimcw5.png~original

Jayco-man
August 10th, 2016, 09:13 PM
Thank you sir I will check them out.

Jayco-man
August 10th, 2016, 10:24 PM
https://imageshack.com/i/poVcHxHVjThis looks a lot better, Thanks guys.

cascaderailroad
August 11th, 2016, 01:53 AM
The actual bridge has a flat top girder

JCitron
August 11th, 2016, 09:34 AM
The bridge is incorrect, however, good job.

If you are interested in some nice bridges that are available on the DLS, look for those that begin with RRTK by austin31hockey.

<kuid:316:38051> RRTK 2T Through-truss Warren, 200ft
<kuid:316:400057> RRTK 2T Through-truss Pier
<kuid:316:400058> RRTK 2T Through-truss Abutment
<kuid:316:400061> RRTK 2T Swing Span 250ft
<kuid:316:400062> RRTK Bridge Track
<kuid:316:400063> RRTK Bridge Track (Spline)
<kuid:316:400066> RRTK 2T Parker 475ft
<kuid:316:400067> RRTK 1T Through-truss Warren A, 200ft
<kuid:316:400068> RRTK 1T Through-truss Abutment
<kuid:316:400069> RRTK 1T Through-truss Pier
<kuid:316:400070> RRTK 1T Through-truss Warren A, 150ft
<kuid:316:400071> RRTK 2T Through-truss Warren A, 150ft
<kuid:316:400072> RRTK 1T Through-truss Castleton, 250ft
<kuid:316:400073> RRTK 2T Through-truss Castleton, 250ft
<kuid:316:400074> RRTK 2T Through-truss Warren, 200ft (5m)
<kuid:316:400075> RRTK 2T Through-truss Pier 5m
<kuid:316:400076> RRTK 2T Through-truss Abutment 5m
<kuid:316:400077> RRTK 1T Underslung-truss Warren, 150ft
<kuid:316:400078> RRTK 2T Parker 475ft (5m)

I think you'll find more of what you need here.

Jayco-man
August 11th, 2016, 08:10 PM
Thanks guys did not even pick up on that. How's this? https://imageshack.com/i/pnY3NMBOj

JCitron
August 11th, 2016, 09:13 PM
Better! Much more correct.

Now on to other things... The trees are okay, but you might want to replace the bushes. RMM (username rmm) made some similar-sized bushes. They begin they have kust in their name.

p-dehnert
August 12th, 2016, 12:40 AM
A list of the russian tree names (including translation) is available HERE (http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?122875-Speedtrees-by-rmm-English-translations&p=1440565#post1440565).

Peter

cascaderailroad
August 12th, 2016, 11:09 AM
I have noticed that almost all assets on the DLS have in-descriptive names, which are spread out all over the alphabet, having cryptic names

I am downloading many abutments, piers, plylons, supports, bridges ... and I am renaming them with the prefix: "Bridge" in front of their name, so that I can easily find them

I brought up this topic previously that concerning trees, grass, bush's, someone should make an arboretum route containing all the thousands of schwubbery's ... but this was shot down, having no one interested in doing the project

I also think that someone should create a route with all the bridges and support piers, so that everyone could preview these, and use them on their routes

Likewise with buildings, it would be great if someone placed the thousands of their buildings, and static items on a route, so that everyone could preview these, and use them on their routes

I myself need 3 bridges:

Through Plate Girder high
Through Plate Girder medium high
Through Plate Girder low

As well as 2 different support piers, and 2 bridge abutments

http://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/files/images/CR%206370%20at%20Cressonc.thumbnail.jpg

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/pictures%5C17805%5CCopy%20of%20CR%206657%20Cresson ,%20PA.%2011-13-90.jpg

JCitron
August 12th, 2016, 01:01 PM
A list of the russian tree names (including translation) is available HERE (http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?122875-Speedtrees-by-rmm-English-translations&p=1440565#post1440565).

Peter

This is a great list put together by Roy and Deane.

After using the various tree-types for awhile though, you begin to memorize them. Dub = Oak, Klen = Maple, Yablonya = Apple, Kust = bush, and so it goes.

JohnnyC1
August 12th, 2016, 02:31 PM
Do a search for abutment in CM and the DLS.

John

cascaderailroad
August 12th, 2016, 03:06 PM
Unfortunately simply searching: "Abutment" would only bring up a very small portion number of: piers, plylons, supports, column, stone, darkstone, bridges, as the naming of assets are very haphazard and nondescript on the DLS

Jayco-man
August 12th, 2016, 09:11 PM
Thanks again these look a lot better.http://imageshack.com/a/img923/3969/AVzG9m.jpg

Jayco-man
August 12th, 2016, 10:39 PM
Now what is a good looking power line I can use along side the roads. Thanks.

JCitron
August 12th, 2016, 10:44 PM
Now what is a good looking power line I can use along side the roads. Thanks.

Utility Poles:

<kuid2:42884:37030:1> Utility Poles ---- eurostar
<kuid:106916:10443> Utility Poles USA 01 ----- gfisher
<kuid:117608:50527> Utility pole 01 ---- kenichiro
<kuid:117608:60924> Utility pole 02
<kuid:117608:60925> Utility pole 03
<kuid2:481384:1414144:2> Vertical Power Line 3+1 lower Poly (Residential) ---- rrsignal
<kuid:481384:1414146> Vertical Power Line 2+1+1 lower Poly (Residential)

Jerker
August 13th, 2016, 09:27 AM
G'day Jayco-man,

As much as things are looking much better now, I really must "take you to task"...

...there is NO WAY IN THIS WORLD, that the length of track on the approaches to your bridge (both sides) could be supported by the piers you have chosen to use here. In the real world, without some kind of proper support (such as a plate girder type bridge) spanning the gap between the piers, the track would simply sag between them, towards the ground, causing an instant derailment the second any train tried to traverse the section of track spanning the valley. To make this work properly (and look even better), you need to use something more closely akin to the bridge created by bendorsey <KUID2:210518:8359:1> (the "Maribyrnong_River_Bridge"), for us Victorian modellers, which has approach spans on each side, as you require in your situation. Unfortunately, this bridge was built for a specific location and isn't suitable for your situation (it will, however, give you an idea of what you need). In fact, I'm surprised Ben hasn't chipped in here to suggest this, himself)...

Jerker {:)} (the other "Trestle man")

JCitron
August 13th, 2016, 09:43 AM
G'day Jayco-man,

As much as things are looking much better now, I really must "take you to task"...

...there is NO WAY IN THIS WORLD, that the length of track on the approaches to your bridge (both sides) could be supported by the piers you have chosen to use here. In the real world, without some kind of proper support (such as a plate girder type bridge) spanning the gap between the piers, the track would simply sag between them, towards the ground, causing an instant derailment the second any train tried to traverse the section of track spanning the valley. To make this work properly (and look even better), you need to use something more closely akin to the bridge created by bendorsey <KUID2:210518:8359:1> (the "Maribyrnong_River_Bridge"), for us Victorian modellers, which has approach spans on each side, as you require in your situation. Unfortunately, this bridge was built for a specific location and isn't suitable for your situation (it will, however, give you an idea of what you need). In fact, I'm surprised Ben hasn't chipped in here to suggest this, himself)...

Jerker {:)} (the other "Trestle man")

You're right! :)

Here's a Bing Bird's Eye view:

https://binged.it/2b5MrcC

The bridge looks to have plate girder spans approaching the bridge. YRR-series are good for those as well as those included with the RRTK-series by austin316hockey.

Jerker
August 13th, 2016, 10:38 AM
G'day JCitron & Jayco-man,

@ JCitron,

...exactly, John, although I didn't get all that much extra information from the image in your link. I have no idea of the assets that might be available to achieve the task facing Jayco-man, so I must thank you for stepping in to assist in that regard...

@ Jayco-man,

..one thing that I didn't stress (and which has been mentioned in passing, already), is that, as per this image of the asset I referred to above shows,

http://www.pics.victrainz.com.au/Maribrynong_Bridge_in_Trainz.jpg


...you should (NAY MUST) provide appropriate ABUTMENTS under the ends of the girder spans where they "attach" to the earth on either side of the valley (as bendorsey has done on the above asset). Which reminds me, I really do need to get in touch with Ben to get him to "update" the mapping of the concrete on this asset - to remove the horrible tiling that is all too clearly visible, here...

Jerker {:)}

Jayco-man
August 13th, 2016, 10:19 PM
Would it be Illegal to post a picture I found on the net of the bridge in question?

Jerker
August 13th, 2016, 11:52 PM
G'day Jayco-man,

There are always 'issues' when copyright is involved but as long as you are not trying to claim that copyright for yourself, such matters are generally 'overlooked'. If I have any doubts that copyright might become an issue when 'republishing' images created by someone else, I will always provide that which we call "a byline" in the trade - I will give an appropriate credit under the image to the original "author" (for example; ..."...image courtesy of..."...) and provide a 'source'...

Jerker [:)}

Jayco-man
August 14th, 2016, 12:26 AM
Found the bridge. Thanks to bridgehunter.com for posting the picture. Now that I've found the bridge none of it looks right, and as far as I can tell we don't have the right stuff to make it look right. The color is wrong and I cant seem to find through plate girder to make them look separate. There is actually 46 pictures of the bridge. bridgehunter.com/wv/mingohttps://imageshack.com/i/poZY524Mj

Dinorius_Redundicus
August 14th, 2016, 12:55 AM
Those photos look good enough for some bridge modeller to extract realistic textures for the concrete piers and possibly the steel girder sections. A pity about the dead tree blocking the middle pier, but clear views might be obtained from some of the other 45 pictures of the bridge.



I really do need to get in touch with Ben to get him to "update" the mapping of the concrete on this asset - to remove the horrible tiling that is all too clearly visible, here...
Oh boy, here we go :hehe:

Jerker
August 14th, 2016, 08:39 AM
G'day Jayco-man & Dinorius_Redundicus,

@ Jayco-man,

You wrote..

..."...none of it looks right..."..

...to which I can only respond without surprise, as, after some further investigation, I discover that we are talking about two completely different bridges, here - some 16 miles apart, as it turns out. They are very similar, being built by the same railroad and both traverse the same river, I admit but they should not be confused. The bridge you state you are trying to reconstruct is shown in bridgehunter.com as the Nolan Railroad Bridge but unfortunately, there are no images associated with the entry for it. Having said that, the images of the bridge in Freeburn could easily be used as a 'guide' for someone to build the 'correct' bridge for you and as Dinorius_Redundicus says, the images of that bridge are perfectly adequate to act as photo-realistic textures for the creator who may take on the challenge...

@ Dinorius_Redundicus,

You wrote...

.."...Oh boy, here we go:hehe: ..."...

...I know, I know :hehe:, Deane (I seek that which is impossible, do I not??)...

Jerker {:)}

JCitron
August 14th, 2016, 11:09 AM
This might help using stuff that's already available. I built this using the following components:

Approach Spans:

JJS Deck Girder <kuid2:46819:381292>

Middle Span:

RRTK 1T Through-truss Warren A, 150ft <kuid:316:400070>

Bridge ends:

Bridge End Concrete <kud2:46162:24001:11>

I know the piers are incorrect. I don't have concrete bridge piers, or can't find them. But anyway, use whatever you want for the piers and abutments.

What is the kuid and where did you get those nice concrete bridge supports/piers?


http://www.hostthenpost.org/uploads/4d86530a2ccd0044585669ca395997f0.jpg (http://hostthenpost.org)

mezzoprezzo
August 14th, 2016, 11:42 AM
There's a great pillar on the DLS which you might find a good choice. It's very weathered and extremely well textured. It's called Filar Mostowy Zmurszaly (bet you'd never normally find that one! :D).

It's made by kilanziom who is renowned for his rolling stock and scenery asset creations amongst the mainland European Trainzers. It's worth doing a DLS username search of all of his stuff. I've used loads of his assets which are mainly Polish, but a lot of them are very suitable for many other countries/regions.

The pillar in question is <KUID:173943:200374>

Make sure the TRS2004 box is checked.

http://auran.com/trainz/downloads/buildingsstructures/kuid_173943_200374.jpg

JCitron
August 14th, 2016, 11:54 AM
Thanks!

I'll look for that one as that's really nice and very useful. I have lots of his content as well such as his churches and other buildings. I agree he's made some great stuff. :)

mezzoprezzo
August 14th, 2016, 12:03 PM
Thanks!

I'll look for that one as that's really nice and very useful. I have lots of his content as well such as his churches and other buildings. I agree he's made some great stuff. :) You're welcome. The real thanks needs to go to kilanziom and the other great creators.

I particularly like that pillar because of the way the texturing transforms from old stone higher up, to a really grimy lower section. It works well over damp riverbeds and should make for a good match with the rusty metalwork structures on Jaco-man's bridge span.

Jayco-man
August 14th, 2016, 12:45 PM
The bridge pier is KUID 73500:100157 made by jrfolco and is on the DLS. I'm wondering if the bridge was redone at some point, because it doesn't look the same as the one in GE. The through plate girder on the long end looked curved in the picture, but not in GE. I'm getting a headache. LOL. Thanks for the help guys.

Jayco-man
August 14th, 2016, 01:36 PM
Ok guys here is what I have now. I would really love to use the same pier under the bridge but the bridge pier is not tale enough. It is definitely a nice bridge pierhttps://imageshack.com/i/plA332P8j

mezzoprezzo
August 14th, 2016, 03:17 PM
Looking at the Bing Bird's Eye view following the link in JCitron's post #25 https://binged.it/2b5MrcC I found some useful tips in using this alternative image source. It's quite different to Google earth. Thanks for the link. This will be very useful.

After looking at the image offered in the link, which appears to give the latest version, I saw the box marked "Previous Version". Clicking on this led me to some other images of the same area which gives a clearer view of the bridge. I also found that you can spin the image to view the scene from the four NSEW cardinal points, not all of which seem to have been taken on the same day. Just click on the curved arrows on either side of the compass icon at the top right of the image. It does offer further clues to the layout of the bridge structure.

I've posted two screen grabs of the bridge viewed from either side. You can see that the piers supporting the track at the girder bridge ends are not set at right angles to the track, (unlike the apparently smaller approach piers which are built at 90deg to the track). They look to be set following the line of the river bank, closer to 45deg to the track. They also look slightly different (?larger), so you could use a different, and higher, support pier for these two.

The other observation is that the girder bridge shown in the Trainz Surveyor shot has five vertical girders on each side, whereas the image of the real thing shows that there are six.

http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff461/fstrainz/Bridge%20views_zpsmfeht17v.png~original

Keep up the good work!

:)

cascaderailroad
August 14th, 2016, 03:29 PM
Sometimes a bridge pier sits too high, protruding into the bridge, the solution is to lay short sections of invisatrack, and place piers on it, and slde it underneath, holding down on the Shift KB keys, this would also allow you to angle the pier

There is a 25ft, 35ft, 45ft, 55ft, 65ft, pier that could be placed, and rotated, placing one pier on top of another: bridge pier 25ft - bigbern, which is a building/static asset. You place 2 of them, custom rotate them the same degree of rotation, and side one under the other, with meticulous precision

Perhaps your track is placed to high above the river channel ?

Jayco-man
August 21st, 2016, 02:35 AM
Update on bridge in Nolan.https://imageshack.com/i/pmE6QlZTj

JCitron
August 21st, 2016, 09:53 AM
That looks great. Keep up the good work. :)

jordon412
August 21st, 2016, 02:14 PM
Whenever I have to build one of these bridges, I use a combination of Maddy25's 'Plate Girder Bridge, Bendy', and 'Warren Through-Truss Bridge, Steel'. The two different bridges match perfectly, and allows for bridges that has curves on them. However, the bridge piers that go with them won't work when you combine the two bridges. To rectify this problem, I use Natvander's 'Bridge Pylon Girder Lg' for where the 'Plate Girder bridge, Bendy' meets the 'Warren Through-Truss Bridge, Steel'. Also, if I add some extra piers on these bridges, I use the 'Bridge Pylon Girder Lg' for multiple 'Warren Through-Truss Bridge, Steel', and Natvander's 'Bridge Pylon Girder Sm' for the 'Plate Girder Bridge, Bendy'. However, if I'm using just one of these bridges, I use the bridge supports Maddy25 made for them. As for bridge ends, if the bridge is level, I use either Maddy25's 'Abutment - concrete' or wawasoo's 'YR Abutment - Wood LEVEL'. If it's on a grade, I use wawasoo's 'YR Abutment - Wood UP' for the 'higher end' of the bridge, and 'YR Abutment - Wood Down', for the 'lower end'.