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johnwhelan
October 21st, 2015, 05:16 PM
When TC3 came out I cloned some of my content then converted them back to TRS2004 basically by using TRS2004 scripts.

Bobsanders reskinned them and the original versions.

All of IsambardKingdomBrunel (https://www.auran.com/DLS/index.php#) content is mine with TRS2004 inserted in the version number, there is a post of his to that effect somewhere in the forum.

At the moment we have the later versions and strangely enough the earlier versions which someone else has updated to be error free.

They have the same meshes, they use the same texture files, they are redundant.

If possible at a minimum I'd like them to become invisible on the DLS if they can't be removed.

I really don't want to see another email from N3V saying there are errors in them and can they be updated. The updated versions are already on the DLS.

Thoughts?

Thanks John

NSWGR_46Class
October 21st, 2015, 05:35 PM
We have the same problem with me and Peter - Peter used to use TRS2004 and he was putting his stuff on the DLS - Peter did not want to prevent 2004 users having access to his items and being forced into newer version so I was releasing updated and improved version of some his work in TS/10/12 versions. I would use scripting for auto numbering, express train headboards, sparking, marker lights and such which the old models never had.

N3V was asked to kill the older versions - when the DSL clean up started - Some one was even changing the names of items and was stating in the title that they were TS12 versions which they were not. Updates to Peters 2004 items still appear now and then, there is not chance of him doing it from were he now is.

It get got even worst for us when a 2004 version of a one loco and some rolling stock are now part of the TANE release built in rolling stock, when the much better, scripted and detailed loco and rolling stock were over looked.

johnwhelan
October 22nd, 2015, 10:45 AM
Sounds like one of the basic things that gets overlooked as they seek the next interesting detail.


Pity

Cheerio John

cascaderailroad
October 22nd, 2015, 01:44 PM
It is important that all the 04, 06, TC3 assets, as well as all the 09, 10, and 12 assets, are not corrupted, by changing them all to T:ANE standards ... as once they are broken, they can not be used by 04, 06, TC3 users, as well as all the 09, 10, and 12 assets, they can no longer be used.

If T:ANE is a complete FLOP, and N3V goes belly up, all the 04, 06, TC3, 09, 10, and 12 assets will be destroyed for use in lower versions ... that is why any updates, and clean-ups, should be done by creating a brand new kuid ... so the T:ANE assets clean-up, and updates do not completely screw older versions users.

Just because T:ANE is a good screenshot creation platform, it does not mean that it will not become yet another grande N3V failure, and become yet another huge bust, a total bomb of a program.

Updating the entire DLS to T:ANE trainz-build would be a huge mistake ... breaking all assets for everyone else

SailorDan
October 22nd, 2015, 04:29 PM
I really don't want to see another email from N3V saying there are errors in them and can they be updated. The updated versions are already on the DLS.

There is a thread about this here:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?122325-DLS-Cleanup-List-Maintenance

If the versions you uploaded did not obsolete the existing assets then they are, by definition, a new asset. You can't expect the system to work out that they are actually upgrades just because there is a post about it somewhere in the forum.

johnwhelan
October 22nd, 2015, 09:14 PM
There is a thread about this here:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?122325-DLS-Cleanup-List-Maintenance

If the versions you uploaded did not obsolete the existing assets then they are, by definition, a new asset. You can't expect the system to work out that they are actually upgrades just because there is a post about it somewhere in the forum.

Ah yes the place where only the chosen few are allowed to discuss problems.

I don't expect the system to work it all out after N3V did away with the obsolete table but it would be nice to have it sorted out.

Cheerio John

SailorDan
October 22nd, 2015, 09:24 PM
Ah yes the place where only the chosen few are allowed to discuss problems.

You can discuss it here, as indeed you are doing.


I don't expect the system to work it all out after N3V did away with the obsolete table but it would be nice to have it sorted out.

Uh? The obsolete table has not been done away with.

It's not a cleanup problem. It's a problem in CM/DLS that means that later versions of assets are selected as the default download even if they are not usable in the user's version of Trainz. That, in turn, discourages people from using the obsoleting procedure correctly, and incidentally creates the myth that a new version of an asset somehow destroys the older versions.

JCitron
October 22nd, 2015, 10:15 PM
"Ah yes the place where only the chosen few are allowed to discuss problems."

John Whalen,

If you have something to ask in the Trainz Developers forum, post it here or PM me the question and I will forward it over. It's not a secret place; it's just locked to prevent clutter and keep the forum on topic, which you know can be difficult in the public forums.

John

LNERlover5
October 23rd, 2015, 05:47 AM
N3V did away with the obsolete table


Did they? It still works fine for this particular task though where you're looking to hard-obsolete assets.

Jack

cascaderailroad
October 23rd, 2015, 06:03 AM
~incidentally creates the myth that a new version of an asset somehow destroys the older versions.

An urban Myth ... huh ? ! ?

When an 04, 06 asset is updated to 09, 10, 12 trainzbuild, and uploaded to the DLS ... the trainz-build numeral is changed, requiring backdating the config file trainz-build numeral, ... and also the config file is changed so much that it does not work properly in 04, 06

When an 04, 06 asset is upgraded to T:ANE trainz-build, the config file is altered so very much, that the 04, 06 asset no longer is backdateable, and will not work in 04, 06 no matter what you do !

T:ANE is slowly destroying the 04, 06 assets ... and what assets it breaks, those assets are discarded by the wayside as garbage.

LNERlover5
October 23rd, 2015, 06:19 AM
An urban Myth ... huh ? ! ?

When an 04, 06 asset is updated to 09, 10, 12 trainzbuild, and uploaded to the DLS ... the trainz-build numeral is changed, requiring backdating the config file trainz-build numeral, ... and also the config file is changed so much that it does not work properly in 04, 06

When an 04, 06 asset is upgraded to T:ANE trainz-build, the config file is altered so very much, that the 04, 06 asset no longer is backdateable, and will not work in 04, 06 no matter what you do !

T:ANE is slowly destroying the 04, 06 assets ... and what assets it breaks, those assets are discarded by the wayside as garbage.

Well that's a consequence virtually all the games content being produced by the users. The forced upgrading of assets through the DLS makes little sense in this context, but you could never stop the original asset creators from making these updates and obsoleting their older assets. At this point you could argue that the creator doesn't really care that their asset no longer works in older versions if their focus is simply to enjoy the latest edition of Trainz with their work, if they did then I'm sure they would be using the obsolete table or uploading to third parties.. This isn't N3Vs fault however if the user does it of their own volition, but it doesn't go down well when users of older versions call out content creators for producing updates as we've seen a few times in the past on these forums.

Jack

cascaderailroad
October 23rd, 2015, 06:21 AM
T:ANE has proven itself as a destructive program, that inverts bogies, and sinks bogies into the ground, and forever destroys older assets, as the coding in T:ANE is so radically different, and this breaks older assets, as attachment point coding is not even the same as 04, 06, 09, 10, 12

When even I, and other 10 y/o amateurs, can go into a perfectly good working asset, and without permission from the original creator ... we can alter those assets, without permission from the original creator ... and totally change those assets, and re-upload them to the DLS to T:ANE standards ... there is something totally wrong, and illegal with the inexperienced rouge hoards updating, with the clean-up of the DLS, to any whim that which they feel fit to alter.

LNERlover5
October 23rd, 2015, 06:23 AM
I'm not saying that it doesn't. T:ANE does do some weird things that content creators who want to move forward need to adapt to. What I am saying is that it's completely down to the user if they want to modify their work to get it working with T:ANE, and it's also down to the user whether they want to keep the asset working in older versions.

cascaderailroad
October 23rd, 2015, 06:35 AM
~it's also down to the user whether they want to keep the asset working in older versions.

NO ... the altering of the 04, 06 asset is shoved down the throats or 04, 06 users, without the permission from the original creator,and suddenly all those assets are now T:ANE trainz-build, and can not be used in 04, 06 ... just as suddenly all the 04, 06 assets were magically upgraded overnight to 2.7, 2.9, 3.4 trainz-build ... which makes the older original versions not even downloadable anymore.

If T:ANE wants to function ... T:ANE itself should change it's coding, so that it does not break older assets.

When T:ANE breaks all assets use in 09, 10, 12 ... You will then see the depth, and extent, of this problem, of the inexperienced rouge hoards updating, with the clean-up of the DLS, to any whim that which they feel fit to alter.

LNERlover5
October 23rd, 2015, 07:33 AM
I'm fairly sure I did say I don't agree with the forced updating of the assets presently available on the DLS with a one month window for the original creator. The fact is though that nobody has any obligation to legacy users. If their product is no longer within the support life cycle, N3V doesn't need to cater for it, these versions no longer provide the sales required to operate. If the content creators themselves are the ones making these changes, you as an end user of an unsupported version of Trainz do not have many arguments in your favour I'm afraid.

Say for example I made a locomotive you liked, I have published a few, whether you like them or not is your business, but if I made an update to have it function correctly in a new version of Trainz, that's my business, if legacy users complain, it's not like I owe them anything, since I'm the one who put the time and energy in to create free content for myself firstly, and for the community secondly.

Older packages had their time, but N3V and the content creators are based on appearances trying to move forward. Individuals who won't move on and who insist that 04, 06 etc need all this content aren't the ones keeping N3V afloat, it's the people who pick up T:ANE and create content for it, whilst also updating content to ensure that these newer versions have the catalogue of content that makes Trainz as good as it is.

Perhaps I'm being harsh, but such is life. Legacy users can stick to third parties where internal interference from N3V is not possible, you can have your cake and eat it. The DLS though is a different beast altogether.

Jack

cascaderailroad
October 23rd, 2015, 07:42 AM
I repeat: You will care when ...

When T:ANE breaks all assets use in 09, 10, 12 ... You will then see the depth, and extent, of this problem, of the inexperienced rouge hoards updating, with the clean-up of the DLS, to any whim that which they feel fit to alter.

You will care when T:ANE2, breaks every T:ANE asset ... Not that I see N3V lasting that long.

KenGreen
October 23rd, 2015, 08:20 AM
If you don't update your assets on CM doesn't that leave them at the older version.
i have 14.000 updates on my TS12, i stopped using that since it changed an asset in ECML which rendered it faulty.

Ken

cascaderailroad
October 23rd, 2015, 08:48 AM
Yes ... unless you apply updates ... then it usually breaks them.

If you lose your PC due to failure ... and go to the White Pages DLS ... and go to re-download an asset, that is clearly labeled TRS2004, or TRS2006, you don't get that ... You instead get an updated 09, 10, 12 version of the asset, an asset that someone probably (screwed with it) altered without permission, and this usually breaks the asset in lower versions.

That's the real beauty of the DLS ... N3V doesn't even have to create any of the assets on the DLS ... 3rd party creators do all the hard work, and donate their assets to the N3V DLS ... and N3V doesn't even have to alter, and break all the older assets ... as someone 3rd party is ready and willing to jump up to the plate and screw with all the assets without permission from the original creator, usually breaking the assets ... so the DLS "Clean-Up" and DLS "Update", is a self destruct of the DLS, by hordes of unexperienced Community members, altering other peoples assets without permission.

Maybe, just maybe ... they should fix T:ANE so that it doesn't break all the assets on the DLS ... but that is not happening ... they are breaking, and reworking all the working assets, because they won't work in T:ANE

Pencil42
October 23rd, 2015, 09:03 AM
Like SailorDan said, it's a bug in Trainz that they try to download items that have too high of a build number for that version. Upgraded assets *should* obsolete the old ones, and old versions of Trainz *should* ignore updated content higher than their version. Without the second, though, we end up with the mess we have now.

Curtis

LNERlover5
October 23rd, 2015, 10:56 AM
In regards to breaking assets with T:ANE, it's not a new thing, there is a reason we needed a compatibility mode a few years ago to tide us over through technical changes that brought the content of the time to its knees.

As with the intended operation of trying to download assets with an appropriate build number relevant to a specific Trainz version, this really should be a working option. If it was always the intention but just doesn't work, why not...

The above in mind though, it shuts down the idea that 'updates break the content for older users'. These updates are not for you, they were never intended to work either, the idea being that an older option should be available is the intention, however if that doesn't work, that's why third parties such as TPR exist.

If content creators actually used the obsolete table properly however, this wouldn't be a problem since multiple versions would co-exist and CM would always pick the appropriate one. Given the amount of content available though, it's probably too late...

Jack

itareus
October 23rd, 2015, 01:02 PM
...Not that I see N3V lasting that long...

If that's the case, why don't you find another simulator (or hobby) right now. :) ?

SailorDan
October 23rd, 2015, 03:10 PM
When an 04, 06 asset is updated to 09, 10, 12 trainzbuild, and uploaded to the DLS ... the trainz-build numeral is changed, requiring backdating the config file trainz-build numeral, ... and also the config file is changed so much that it does not work properly in 04, 06

The original asset is not altered in any way. Users of 04, 06 etc have no need to download the updated version and can simply ignore it. Nothing is discarded. Nothing needs to be backdated.

johnwhelan
October 23rd, 2015, 05:06 PM
The original asset is not altered in any way. Users of 04, 06 etc have no need to download the updated version and can simply ignore it. Nothing is discarded. Nothing needs to be backdated.

But the assets we are talking about where first made for a later version then a version for an early version of Trainz was released.

Cheerio John

paulhobbs
October 23rd, 2015, 05:07 PM
I repeat: You will care when ...

When T:ANE breaks all assets use in 09, 10, 12 ... You will then see the depth, and extent, of this problem, of the inexperienced rouge hoards updating, with the clean-up of the DLS, to any whim that which they feel fit to alter.No we won't care because any updates made by anybody don't overwrite the old assets on the DLS. All you need to do is be smart enough not to download assets with a build number higher than you can use. TS12 SP1 does this automatically now - but of course TRS2006 which you think is the best thing since sliced bread is so bugged that it doesn't.

If you don't update your assets on CM doesn't that leave them at the older version.
i have 14.000 updates on my TS12, i stopped using that since it changed an asset in ECML which rendered it faulty.
Of course it does. Cascade is always coming out with this nonsense.

Yes ... unless you apply updates ... then it usually breaks them.
If you downloaded unsuitable assets then you broke them, not the content creators or the DLS clean up updaters.


If you lose your PC due to failure ... and go to the White Pages DLS ... and go to re-download an asset, that is clearly labeled TRS2004, or TRS2006, you don't get that ... You instead get an updated 09, 10, 12 version of the asset, an asset that someone probably (screwed with it) altered without permission, and this usually breaks the asset in lower versions.Not if you can read you don't.


That's the real beauty of the DLS ... N3V doesn't even have to create any of the assets on the DLS ... 3rd party creators do all the hard work, and donate their assets to the N3V DLS ... and N3V doesn't even have to alter, and break all the older assets ... as someone 3rd party is ready and willing to jump up to the plate and screw with all the assets without permission from the original creator, usually breaking the assets ... so the DLS "Clean-Up" and DLS "Update", is a self destruct of the DLS, by hordes of experienced Community members, altering other peoples assets without permission.The upload agreement allows N3V to update assets if needed for later Trainz versions so they don't need permission. This assets don't 'usually' get broken, they work in the version of Trainz for which they have been updated and the old versions are still available. Originally you said the fixing was being done by inexperienced community members and now suddenly they are experienced. Which is it?


Maybe, just maybe ... they should fix T:ANE so that it doesn't break all the assets on the DLS ... but that is not happening ... they are breaking, and reworking all the working assets, because they won't work in T:ANENo, they shouldn't make T:ANE like TRS2006 where the program has to jump through all sorts of runtime hoops fixing busted assets on the fly. I'm pretty sure most people would rather have better framerates thank you very much.

Paul

SailorDan
October 23rd, 2015, 06:54 PM
But the assets we are talking about where first made for a later version then a version for an early version of Trainz was released.

That's not clear from your post. You use 'later' and 'earlier' without indicating whether you are referring to version number or upload date.

But the repairs are not redundant. If an asset is referred to in a route and the user downloads that route into a later version then the system will find the later version of the asset, and ensure that the route works properly. Without that repair the user would somehow need to know that they have to replace that asset with a different one.

NSWGR_46Class
October 23rd, 2015, 07:22 PM
N3V sent Peter a list of items that needed fixing and he told them Dave has better versions of the old items now , please remove them - they said no !!!!

Its not about quality of content - do not kid yourself it is about cash flow - other wise what was 2004 models would not have been used in a for sale TANE add on route instead of TS10/TS12 content.

The loco on the left is an old 2004 steamer
.http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/Dave_Fragar/7d_zpso60pro7e.jpg
2004 version vs the ts10/12 version

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/Dave_Fragar/Tane3_zpsc4b61757.jpg

cascaderailroad
October 23rd, 2015, 08:30 PM
Example: Clearly labeled TRS2004

The asset is not TRS2004 ... it is now trainz-build 2.9

So the TRS2004 asset no longer exists, and is destroyed by someone updating the asset to a higher train-build

If this is not clear enough of an example for you to understand, I can provide thousands of other examples of how someone has obliterated a 04, 06 asset, and has changed it to a higher trainz-build

The original 04 asset is no longer available for download

http://auran.com/trainz/downloads/rollingstock/kuid2_124017_5013_4.jpg (https://www.auran.com/DLS/DLS_downloadasset.php?DownloadID=372493)

Download Page (https://www.auran.com/DLS/DLS_downloadasset.php?DownloadID=372493)

Mill Gondola, 52', Railgon - Maddy25 (https://www.auran.com/DLS/index.php#)
21st January 2015

Description
Johnstown (FreightCar America) 52'6 Mill Gondola, decorated for Railgon. Includes end-of-train device (FRED), animated brake hoses, two texture sets, and supports many different loads. This should work with both TRS2004 and TRS2006.

light weight: 66,600 lbs (29,937 kg)
load limit: 219,400 lbs (99,518 kg)
capacity: 2,993 cubic feet (84,752 L)
min. coupled curve radius: 220 feet (67 m)
center of gravity, fully loaded: 70.2 inches (1.78 m)

Revision History:
- v3: Re-uploaded to the DLS since thi ...Read More (https://www.auran.com/DLS/DLS_viewasset.php?AssetID=372493)


Type: Rolling Stock | Version: TRS2004 | KUID2: <KUID2:124017:5013:4> | Filesize: 640.42 kb | File Type: .cdp |




No we won't care because any updates made by anybody don't overwrite the old assets on the DLS. All you need to do is be smart enough not to download assets with a build number higher than you can use. TS12 SP1 does this automatically now - but of course TRS2006 which you think is the best thing since sliced bread is so bugged that it doesn't.

If you downloaded unsuitable assets then you broke them, not the content creators or the DLS clean up updaters.

The upload agreement allows N3V to update assets if needed for later Trainz versions so they don't need permission. This assets don't 'usually' get broken, they work in the version of Trainz for which they have been updated and the old versions are still available. Originally you said the fixing was being done by inexperienced community members and now suddenly they are experienced. Which is it?
No, they shouldn't make T:ANE like TRS2006 where the program has to jump through all sorts of runtime hoops fixing busted assets on the fly. I'm pretty sure most people would rather have better framerates thank you very much.Paul

The fact is that N3V does none of the updating ... the updating is done by Community Members

If I downloaded assets that are clearly labeled TRS2004, and they are now trainz-build 2.9, how did I break them?

The Community Members involved in the DLS clean up updaters broke the 04 asset by changing it.

The old 04 versions are no longer available

It seems that Community Members are so utterly, completely blind as to what damage is being done to the DLS !

You summed it up perfectly ... Nobody cares !

And the usual response is for multiple community members to lash out, with a barrage of insults

SailorDan
October 23rd, 2015, 11:11 PM
The Community Members involved in the DLS clean up updaters broke the 04 asset by changing it.

The old 04 versions are no longer available



It's a CM/DLS problem. Nothing to do with the cleanup.

http://i59.tinypic.com/2l94gi0.jpg

JCitron
October 23rd, 2015, 11:47 PM
Example: Clearly labeled TRS2004

The asset is not TRS2004 ... it is now trainz-build 2.9

So the TRS2004 asset no longer exists, and is destroyed by someone updating the asset to a higher train-build

If this is not clear enough of an example for you to understand, I can provide thousands of other examples of how someone has obliterated a 04, 06 asset, and has changed it to a higher trainz-build

The original 04 asset is no longer available for download




Not true. The old asset is still there.

You cannot download it directly but you can still download the old version via FTP. I have done this more than once recently because I needed an old 2.0 asset and the only one available was a 4.2 which doesn't work in TS12.

The code on the DLS has been fixed actually to not allow Content Manager to download the incorrect version automatically of an asset not meant for your particular installed version. This was actually an issue before if you recall and caused quite a mess for quite a few people.

In addition to that, you are using a truly out of date version of Trainz. Given the age of your installed product, you can't download anything automatically anyway according to the lifecycle policy in place for older versions.

As time has gone on, the download manager engine has changed since TRS2006 and is quite different in T:ANE even to what was in TS12, so expecting something that is now going on 10 years old to work just the same as something that is written a year ago, is asking for a lot. Even with Windows there are issues with older applications now with Windows 10. They struggled even to operate in Windows 7, if they ran at all, and definitely never will run in Windows 8 and up due to many reasons including file-access security, which was nearly non-existent in Windows 98 and Windows XP.

paulhobbs
October 24th, 2015, 03:42 AM
Example: Clearly labeled TRS2004
The asset is not TRS2004 ... it is now trainz-build 2.9
Then that is a bug in the DLS white pages. If enough people care enough to report it as a bug it may well get fixed. But it's not a problem that most people using a supported version of Trainz wll even notice. Stop complaining, report it.


So the TRS2004 asset no longer exists, and is destroyed by someone updating the asset to a higher train-build
Rubbish.


If this is not clear enough of an example for you to understand, I can provide thousands of other examples of how someone has obliterated a 04, 06 asset, and has changed it to a higher trainz-build

The original 04 asset is no longer available for download
The same rubbish again.


The fact is that N3V does none of the updating ... the updating is done by Community Members

If I downloaded assets that are clearly labeled TRS2004, and they are now trainz-build 2.9, how did I break them?

The Community Members involved in the DLS clean up updaters broke the 04 asset by changing it.
Also rubbish, N3V updated quite a few old assets for inclusion in T:ANE.

The old 04 versions are no longer available
Repeating a lie multiple times doesn't make it true.

It seems that Community Members are so utterly, completely blind as to what damage is being done to the DLS !
Probably because no damage has been done.

You summed it up perfectly ... Nobody cares !
Thank you. At least you understood that bit.


And the usual response is for multiple community members to lash out, with a barrage of insults
Unsurprisingly as you keep repeating the same misinformation. The danger is that some people might actually believe you.

I downloaded the example asset you gave via FTP for TRS2004 (v3 of the asset) with no trouble at all on a NetBook that doesn't even have Trainz installed on it. Just because you can't figure it out doesn't mean it's impossible. Once I'm back home on my Trainz machine I'll gladly post some screenshots on how to do it that even my cat could follow and every time you claim this isn't possible I'll just repost them.

Paul

cascaderailroad
October 24th, 2015, 07:36 AM
Rubbish

The same rubbish again.

Also rubbish, N3V updated quite a few old assets for inclusion in T:ANE

Unsurprisingly as you keep repeating the same misinformation. The danger is that some people might actually believe you.

I'll gladly post some screenshots on how to do it that even my cat could follow and every time you claim this isn't possible I'll just repost them.

Paul

I downloaded the Mill Gon via FTP, and it came as trainz-build 2.9 (not TRS2004)
There is no other option tick box on the White Pages available to download the original TRS2004 version

You keep on avoiding the problem that keeps staring you right in the face, that the original TRS2004 version download is no longer available ... backing your feelings and frustration with insults towards me, and stating the same ol' sing song: "Rubbish Rubbish Rubbish".

As for the handful of assets that actually may have been updated by N3V ... They only would do that as T:ANE is so non-backward incompatible, and the game is coded all too wrong, that T:ANE couldn't even run the assets ... so instead of fixing the game to work properly ... they fudged with the assets

I can keep on posting many, many examples of how the DLS 04, 06, assets are being destroyed (as the original downloads are no longer there) ... as they are now updated to either 09, 10, 12 or T:ANE tranz-build

Keep on backing it up as rubbish, rubbish, rubbish ... and people might just start believing it

T:ANE ... blindly walking (running headlong) into a disaster zone, never mind the consequences

paulhobbs
October 24th, 2015, 07:52 AM
I downloaded the Mill Gon via FTP, and it came as trainz-build 2.9 (not TRS2004)
There is no other option tick box on the White Pages available to download the original TRS2004 versionOK, if you think that it's not possible to download the old v3 version of the asset from the white pages how did I get this file? ( (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1a-SR7l2w7iR3NjYW5GQU9Gb0U/view?usp=sharing)link removed as point has been proved). I should say I can't verify that this is trainz-build 2.4 as I don't have access to Trainz at the moment but it should be. Perhaps somebody else (or even you) could download it and check.

You keep on avoiding the problem that keeps staring you right in the face, that the TRS2004 version download is no longer available ... backing your feelings and frustration with insults towards me, and stating the same ol' sing song: "Rubbish Rubbish Rubbish".

Keep on backing it up as rubbish, rubbish, rubbish ... and people might just start believing it

T:ANE ... blindly walking (running headlong) into a disaster zone, never mind the consequences
It's not me who is frustrated, I think you are just annoyed because you can't work out how to do it. As I said, I can't give you step by step screenshots until at least tomorrow as I'm travelling.

Paul

Dinorius_Redundicus
October 24th, 2015, 09:02 AM
Just downloaded it via Paul's link and it is indeed a build 2.4 asset. In fact, versions :1, :2, :3 and :4 (which is built-in to TANE) are all build 2.4.

Checked the details on the White Pages DLS and sure enough it has 124017:5013:3 listed as a TRS2004 asset, uploaded 30 Jan 2008 and downloaded over 67,000 times. I downloaded it using the Download Page -> Download Helper option which called up Content Manager from TS2010. Once again, this version was confirmed to be a build 2.4 asset. I have no doubt I would get the same asset if I'd used the FTP option.

LNERlover5
October 24th, 2015, 09:15 AM
Cascade, you need to understand that what you say frustrates people because what you say is often just misinformation which is something we don't want on these forums, we can't go round scaremongering and misleading other users, it doesn't help anyone and makes you look a bit of a fool.

mezzoprezzo
October 24th, 2015, 09:35 AM
Iíve just done a white pages DLS search for that item.

Entering 124017:5013 in the search box and checking just the TRS2004 box and kuid button finds four results.
Kuid2:124017:5013:1
Kuid2:124017:5013:2
Kuid2:124017:5013:3
Kuid2:124017:5013:4

All look identical, except for the incremental kuid number and date.

I only bothered to FTP download the most recent (:4) version dated 21st January 2015. The config.txt file for that one is trainz-build 2.4. I assume the three earlier dated versions will be the same.

http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff461/fstrainz/version%202.4_zpsjnnysjux.jpg~original

paulhobbs
October 24th, 2015, 09:48 AM
I can keep on posting many, many examples of how the DLS 04, 06, assets are being destroyed (as the original downloads are no longer there) ... as they are now updated to either 09, 10, 12 or T:ANE tranz-build
OK, give us another example of an asset that has been 'destroyed' by an update, I think it's been proved that what you claimed about kuid:124017:5013 was rubbish especially as it turns out the update was for trainz-build 2.4...

Paul

cascaderailroad
October 24th, 2015, 11:10 AM
It's not me who is frustrated, I think you are just annoyed because you can't work out how to do it. As I said, I can't give you step by step screenshots until at least tomorrow as I'm travelling.Paul

Usually when I download anything ... almost every asset I download (that was originally an 04, 06 asset) shows up as trainz-build 2.9 or higher ... So I am well aware of what is happening to the DLS.

With almost every asset I have to go into the config file and backdate the trainz-build numeral ... which is time consuming, but I have backdated 10's of thousands of these 04, 06 assets, that are now downloading a config file trainz-build 2.9 numeral, or higher.

But what I am tring to point out is: "Someday when all these 04, 06, 09, 10, 12 assets are updated to be T:ANE version, all these assets on the DLS will be unusable in all earlier versions.

Yet there is not one person who is seeing this ... so I guess everyone is blinded by T:ANE, or do not care !

When I download via FTP it comes out trainz-build 2.9

When I download via Content Manager it usually come up with the notice: "The asset is not available on the DLS, and is obsoleted by a higher version of Trainz".

As I am not on drugs, nor am I blind, and I am not all that stupid, and I am typing the truth, and not misinformation at all ... and as this has happened to me 10's of thousands of times, on almost every asset I download, and I have to backdate 10's of thousands of assets trainz-build numerals ... And yet no one else sees this ... unbelievable !


OK, give us another example of an asset that has been 'destroyed' by an update, I think it's been proved that what you claimed about kuid:124017:5013 was rubbish especially as it turns out the update was for trainz-build 2.4...Paul

The asset is only available as: <KUID2:124017:5013:4> Which is a trainz-build 2.9 asset

I will provide a better example, soon

I grow tired of talking to people who are wearing earplugs in their ears, who are wearing blinders over their eyes, and those who refuse to acknowledge the truth that is staring them right in the face ... those who are deaf, dumb, and blind to the Truth
https://www.google.com/search?q=sen+no+evil&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMItc_H-8DbyAIVhaYeCh32TA4i&biw=1188&bih=631#tbm=isch&q=sen+no+evil+monkeys&imgrc=1Xfc5zERzKn1KM%3A

LNERlover5
October 24th, 2015, 11:38 AM
There is not one person who is seeing this ... so I guess everyone is blinded by T:ANE, or do not care !



I downloaded the gondola you linked us to earlier on. I downloaded the v3 revision of the asset, not the v4 revision that is the most recent version. I cracked open the config file and saw the build number 2.4...

We're not the delusional ones here. You can kick and scream that we are, but more and more of us are able to download this 2.4 asset. They don't get replaced, they still exist.

Jack

Dinorius_Redundicus
October 24th, 2015, 11:52 AM
@cascaderailroad - Apart from the word 'unbelievable' everything else you said just doesn't accord with what several people have shown you to be true. Are you suggesting we are all in some conspiracy? I can only think there is something seriously wrong with your computer or software if you see that asset as a build 2.9. The white pages DLS download page for the asset shows 2 buttons - one for Download Helper and one for FTP - yet you only see the FTP button. That might be a clue that something about your system is not quite right, but i just cannot see how that could change an internal detail like the trainz build of the asset.

cascaderailroad
October 24th, 2015, 12:46 PM
No ...

I see download via FTP, which results in a 2.9 trainz-build asset

And I see Content Manager, it usually come up with the notice: "The asset is not available on the DLS, and is obsoleted by a newer (higher) version of Trainz"

paulhobbs
October 24th, 2015, 12:51 PM
No ...

I see download via FTP, which results in a 2.9 trainz-buid
Not for <kuid:124017:5013> it doesn't, as you can see from the screenshots others have posted.


And Content Manager, it usually come up with the notice: "The asset is not available on the DLS, and is obsoleted by a higher version of Trainz"Yes, you will get that if you are using an unsupported version of Trainz and the asset really does have a later version on the DLS. Again, not the case for <kuid:124017:5013>.

Note that if you have your DLS settings set to 'Images only' you don't get a download via FTP button. Use one of the other options instead.


I grow tired of talking to people who are wearing earplugs in their ears, who are wearing blinders over their eyes, and those who refuse to acknowledge the truth that is staring them right in the face ... those who are deaf, dumb, and blind to the TruthI know exactly how you feel.

Paul

boc61
October 24th, 2015, 01:45 PM
@cascaderailroad - Apart from the word 'unbelievable' everything else you said just doesn't accord with what several people have shown you to be true. Are you suggesting we are all in some conspiracy? I can only think there is something seriously wrong with your computer or software if you see that asset as a build 2.9. The white pages DLS download page for the asset shows 2 buttons - one for Download Helper and one for FTP - yet you only see the FTP button. That might be a clue that something about your system is not quite right, but i just cannot see how that could change an internal detail like the trainz build of the asset.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6018/5939218821_707baa6a6e.jpg

SailorDan
October 24th, 2015, 03:44 PM
N3V sent Peter a list of items that needed fixing and he told them Dave has better versions of the old items now , please remove them - they said no !!!!

That was the mistake. He should have uploaded a repaired version of the asset with a note included in the description referring to that better asset. That way it would have been removed from the cleanup list, it would have been repaired to his standards, and everyone using it would have been aware that they should look for that other asset instead.

It is better to work with the system, whatever you don't like about it, than to try and subvert it.

NSWGR_46Class
October 24th, 2015, 03:55 PM
Peter only works in 2004 - there for he could not up load newer version - and yes we did try what you suggested. That is why he used to hand his meshs off to me I would do the configs, the scripting, the thumbnails and shadow and then release it to the DLS - we have come to a solution no more releases to the DLS.

Now you also have to remember N3V are selling the 36 class steam loco as add on content to TANE. TANE is meant to be the latest and greatest so why are they then selling a 10 year old loco with a head light that is a texture that does not even turn on or off as the best thing since sliced bread. Bit like showing someone a picture of a Concord, charging them 1st class airfare and them putting on a container ship.


That was the mistake. He should have uploaded a repaired version of the asset with a note included in the description referring to that better asset. That way it would have been removed from the cleanup list, it would have been repaired to his standards, and everyone using it would have been aware that they should look for that other asset instead.

It is better to work with the system, whatever you don't like about it, than to try and subvert it.

paulhobbs
October 24th, 2015, 04:54 PM
Peter only works in 2004 - there for he could not up load newer version - and yes we did try what you suggested. That is why he used to hand his meshs off to me I would do the configs, the scripting, the thumbnails and shadow and then release it to the DLS - we have come to a solution no more releases to the DLS.

Now you also have to remember N3V are selling the 36 class steam loco as add on content to TANE. TANE is meant to be the latest and greatest so why are they then selling a 10 year old loco with a head light that is a texture that does not even turn on or off as the best thing since sliced bread. Bit like showing someone a picture of a Concord, charging them 1st class airfare and them putting on a container ship.
Back on topic the problem here is that the TRS2004 version is under Peter's kuid and the update under yours. What you should have done was to give the update to Peter to upload under his kuid. As it is the DLS has no way of knowing that the later version should obsolete the earlier one and it's not possible for one user to obsolete the assets of another for obvious reasons.

You can still fix it by having Peter upload the update and then the earlier version can be updated in everybody's copy of T:ANE.

Paul

NSWGR_46Class
October 24th, 2015, 06:03 PM
We tried that but it would not allow Peter to upload content for a trainz version he did not own = my script would not work in 2004 = so it was useless to other 2004 users which Peter was not happy with - hence the need for newer version
Back on topic the problem here is that the TRS2004 version is under Peter's kuid and the update under yours. What you should have done was to give the update to Peter to upload under his kuid. As it is the DLS has no way of knowing that the later version should obsolete the earlier one and it's not possible for one user to obsolete the assets of another for obvious reasons.

You can still fix it by having Peter upload the update and then the earlier version can be updated in everybody's copy of T:ANE.

Paul

johnwhelan
October 24th, 2015, 06:15 PM
Back on topic the problem here is that the TRS2004 version is under Peter's kuid and the update under yours. What you should have done was to give the update to Peter to upload under his kuid. As it is the DLS has no way of knowing that the later version should obsolete the earlier one and it's not possible for one user to obsolete the assets of another for obvious reasons.

You can still fix it by having Peter upload the update and then the earlier version can be updated in everybody's copy of T:ANE.

Paul

You still get two identical copies of the same asset cluttering the place up and that's what I'd like to avoid.

Cheerio John

Dinorius_Redundicus
October 24th, 2015, 06:34 PM
No ...

I see download via FTP, which results in a 2.9 trainz-build asset

And I see Content Manager, it usually come up with the notice: "The asset is not available on the DLS, and is obsoleted by a newer (higher) version of Trainz"


Well all I can say is that there is something very wrong with your system or your eyesight because there have never been any versions of this asset with a 2.9 build as far as Content Manager is concerned. And the root asset kuid:124017:5013 apparently wasn't made or at least uploaded to the DLS because it is listed as 'unknown' by CM.

The series starts at version :1 and all are build 2.4, as you can hopefully see here in this CM search to "list all versions"...


http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/deane_tunaley/Trainz/124017%205013%20all%20versions.jpg~original


I've looked at their configs and they all have the typical tags for a 2.4 asset, not a 2.9 asset.


.

NSWGR_46Class
October 24th, 2015, 07:05 PM
Bingo and if N3V would have co operated when asked to would never have been a problem
You still get two identical copies of the same asset cluttering the place up and that's what I'd like to avoid.

Cheerio John

SailorDan
October 24th, 2015, 10:40 PM
You still get two identical copies of the same asset cluttering the place up and that's what I'd like to avoid.

Better than having a faulty asset, with no indication of where to find the improved version. But the point is that they aren't identical - that's why there are two of them.

It is not necessary to get the original creator to do the upload if the asset is in the cleanup list. What I would recommend in this particular case is:

Whoever is responsible for the update should get the updated mesh etc from the original creator, create their own version (with attribution) and upload it under their own user number.

Then they claim the faulty asset in the cleanup list, repair it enough to make the fault go away (or more, according to taste), increment the version number, add a comment about where to find a better asset, and upload it.

People seem to be putting more effort into finding ways to undermine the cleanup process instead of taking advantage of it.

davies_mike57
October 25th, 2015, 12:33 AM
Just a bit of added info on this topic:
Read from old forums that some of the TC3 asset GS scripting is slightly different to the Trainz 2004, 2006, 2009, 2010 scripting.
This is a fact with the steam locomotive engines kuids from TC3.
So even though the textures are converted to TGA's and configuration files are converted for Trainz 12 there could be problems with the script running 100% if the commands are not correct.
Some trainz veteran enthusiast have modified some of them in the past.

johnwhelan
October 25th, 2015, 07:30 AM
Just a bit of added info on this topic:
Read from old forums that some of the TC3 asset GS scripting is slightly different to the Trainz 2004, 2006, 2009, 2010 scripting.
This is a fact with the steam locomotive engines kuids from TC3.
So even though the textures are converted to TGA's and configuration files are converted for Trainz 12 there could be problems with the script running 100% if the commands are not correct.
Some trainz veteran enthusiast have modified some of them in the past.

And that basically is the second issue, often the mesh is exactly the same its just the scripts that are different, the back dated ones use scripts that are not quite as stable or robust as the later ones.

Cheerio John

S301
October 25th, 2015, 07:36 AM
Bingo and if N3V would have co operated when asked to would never have been a problem
You wanted us to support obsoleting one author's assets with another author's assets. This will NOT happen in regards to 3rd party content.

Implementing such a system will simply open up all content to being obsoleted by another person to cause issues (e.g. I could obsolete every asset you uploaded with a new asset that is just a white box...). Sure, it might get removed and the offender banned. But that's no good for those who have already installed the update, and broken their routes...

Again, updates to content MUST be uploaded under the original author's UserID if you wish for the update to replace the original asset.

Any assets uploaded through a different userID are a different asset that might happen to look similar...

Regards

johnwhelan
October 25th, 2015, 11:18 AM
You wanted us to support obsoleting one author's assets with another author's assets. This will NOT happen in regards to 3rd party content.

Implementing such a system will simply open up all content to being obsoleted by another person to cause issues (e.g. I could obsolete every asset you uploaded with a new asset that is just a white box...). Sure, it might get removed and the offender banned. But that's no good for those who have already installed the update, and broken their routes...

Again, updates to content MUST be uploaded under the original author's UserID if you wish for the update to replace the original asset.

Any assets uploaded through a different userID are a different asset that might happen to look similar...

Regards


and where we have two assets under the same author kuid that are basically the same except the backdated one has an earlier version of a script do you have a reasonable solution?



Thanks John

paulhobbs
October 25th, 2015, 12:17 PM
and where we have two assets under the same author kuid that are basically the same except the backdated one has an earlier version of a script do you have a reasonable solution?

Thanks John
The newer one obsoletes the older one, but the older one can still be downloaded.

Paul

mezzoprezzo
October 25th, 2015, 12:57 PM
The newer one obsoletes the older one, but the older one can still be downloaded.

PaulCould I please ask:

1. How does the newer one obsoletes the earlier one when the Kuid is identical (i.e. it hasn't been incremented to Kuid2)?

2. How do you choose which one should be downloaded with regard to the Trainz version the user wants the download to appear in?

paulhobbs
October 25th, 2015, 01:03 PM
Could I please ask:

1. How does the newer one obsoletes the earlier one when the Kuid is identical (i.e. it hasn't been incremented to Kuid2)?

2. How do you choose which one should be downloaded with regard to the Trainz version the user wants the download to appear in?
You can't have two assets on the DLS with the same version. If the later version isn't on the DLS then increment the version number and upload it.

In TANE and TS12 SP1 right click on the asset in the main CMP window and choose 'Show versions'. Then right click on the one you want and choose 'Download this version'.

Paul

mezzoprezzo
October 25th, 2015, 01:10 PM
Thanks for the explanation.

johnwhelan
October 25th, 2015, 01:22 PM
The newer one obsoletes the older one, but the older one can still be downloaded.

Paul

Not quite I started with a TC3 version then subsequently released a TRS2004 version which used less robust scripts since there were requests for this. I've updated the TC3 versions so they run in TS12 but the DLS clean up process has allowed the TRS2004 version which has a different kuid number to be error corrected by someone else.

Ideally I'd like the TRS2004 specific version to be rendered invisible at least, they can be identified by 2004 in the title. Note the TC3 version was the first one produced, then later on a TRS2004 variant was created and its these variants I'd like to loose.

Cheerio John

paulhobbs
October 25th, 2015, 01:34 PM
Not quite I started with a TC3 version then subsequently released a TRS2004 version which used less robust scripts since there were requests for this. I've updated the TC3 versions so they run in TS12 but the DLS clean up process has allowed the TRS2004 version which has a different kuid number to be error corrected by someone else.

Ideally I'd like the TRS2004 specific version to be rendered invisible at least, they can be identified by 2004 in the title. Note the TC3 version was the first one produced, then later on a TRS2004 variant was created and its these variants I'd like to loose.

Cheerio John
If the TS12 version and the corrected TRS2004 versions have the same user part of the kuid (i.e. the xxxx part of kuid:xxxx:yyy) then simply upload a new version of the TS12 one that obsoletes the TRS2004 version. The corrected TRS2004 version will never be downloaded unless somebody specifically specifies that they want it via 'Download this version'.

Paul

johnwhelan
October 25th, 2015, 06:16 PM
If the TS12 version and the corrected TRS2004 versions have the same user part of the kuid (i.e. the xxxx part of kuid:xxxx:yyy) then simply upload a new version of the TS12 one that obsoletes the TRS2004 version. The corrected TRS2004 version will never be downloaded unless somebody specifically specifies that they want it via 'Download this version'.

Paul

So have two assets with the same mesh etc. Could do.

Cheerio John

LNERlover5
October 25th, 2015, 06:29 PM
So have two assets with the same mesh etc. Could do.



I did that to have two versions of a cab asset becuase T:ANE has specific differences that result in an error for the 3.7 asset. The obsolete table does the work for the user in selecting the right cab.

Jack