PDA

View Full Version : T:ane CM and Win10



narrowgauge
August 13th, 2015, 09:56 PM
I refer to build #77508 with assets built to build number 3.5

I have found a major problem in T:ane CM now that I am using Win10 Pro. Every items of mine that hitherto have been classed as free from errors now show on the main window as Faulty. I could live with that if it was true, but if I check any of them for errors they all get a clean bill of health, no errors, no missing dependencies.

I downloaded a loco that was recently (about !six weeks)uploaded and accepted to the DLS so obviously free from errors, but as soon as it showed in CM it was labelled as faulty. Why is it so?

Another rather off-putting problem is that even though I previously worked on all of these assets and uploaded them from this version of T:ane, they have all disappeared.

For the record, all T:ane versions are on a dedicated hard drive and should not have been affected by the OS change. I think this merits another Why is it so?

Peter

WindWalkr
August 13th, 2015, 11:02 PM
Have you got some specific reason to believe that Win10 is related to this issue?

chris

narrowgauge
August 14th, 2015, 12:16 AM
Yes. It was not behaving like this under Win7 Ultimate 64bit. I spent hours updating content and I did not get this problem. The operating system is the only thing that has changed. If you really doubt it, providing I have enough space, I will load it into my second machine that has Win 7 Professional 64bit

Peter

Peter

pcas1986
August 14th, 2015, 01:00 AM
Peter,
What was the loco you mentioned in the original post? I just downloaded your Gossan Railroad Garratt and it was fine. There are lots of warnings but they are mostly uniform colours. I'm using 77730 and Win 10 pro (64).

WindWalkr
August 14th, 2015, 01:18 AM
Yes. It was not behaving like this under Win7 Ultimate 64bit. I spent hours updating content and I did not get this problem. The operating system is the only thing that has changed. If you really doubt it, providing I have enough space, I will load it into my second machine that has Win 7 Professional 64bit

I don't have any reason to specifically believe it OR disbelieve it. So far we know that it worked for you, you installed Win10, and it no longer worked. That might be a definite issue, or it may be that something else coincidentally occurred during that process.

For others who have moved to Win10: have you experienced anything similar?

For those not yet on Win10: have you experienced anything similar?

chris

narrowgauge
August 14th, 2015, 01:19 AM
Paul

The one in question is the Vic 30 gauge VR G42 Garratt. More on that subject. The loco and all dependencies was uploaded on 29/7. There are two of those items remaining n the DLS but they are now shown as Invalid. This confirms that the rest have 'gone missing', otherwise, the two remaining items would have been rejected on upload. I have lodged a help desk ticket.

Peter

narrowgauge
August 14th, 2015, 01:25 AM
Chris

I may be 86 but my memory still works. I know my name when can I find where I wrote it.

Seriously, I'll copy the files over and report.

Peter

pcas1986
August 14th, 2015, 01:34 AM
Paul

The one in question is the Vic 30 gauge VR G42 Garratt. More on that subject. The loco and all dependencies was uploaded on 29/7. There are two of those items remaining n the DLS but they are now shown as Invalid. This confirms that the rest have 'gone missing', otherwise, the two remaining items would have been rejected on upload. I have lodged a help desk ticket.

Peter

I can only see two items relating to that loco: the interior and a bogie, the other bits are missing. While investigating I decided to download some of your more recent items and inadvertently queued up over 2000 assets! But, FWIW, the 200+ so far downloaded are all error free.

WindWalkr
August 14th, 2015, 01:53 AM
I may be 86 but my memory still works. I know my name when can I find where I wrote it.

You're clearly doing better than me then ;-)



Seriously, I'll copy the files over and report.

If you get the chance, that would be greatly appreciated. (Feedback from others also greatly appreciated.)

chris

pcas1986
August 14th, 2015, 02:49 AM
Peter,
I just downloaded about 375 of your assets before something odd happened with the DLS download (see below). Only one asset was faulty (<kuid2:44700:19207:4> 24 SR&RL Water Tank Car L) that has a problem with attachment points. Some assets are showing missing dependences not on the DLS. For example <kuid:44700:38852132>.

I'm getting some odd behaviour trying to download some assets. A normal download doesn't always work but a Download This Version does.

narrowgauge
August 14th, 2015, 07:00 AM
Chris

Hopefully tomorrow will see the files mirrored across.

Paul

Those errors have been missed by the 'find the faults' bot. I had a batch that I fixed and have not been told of others. I'll tackle those problems on my win 7 machine. .

Chris again.

I have just seen your post about the DHR in the closed thread, thank you for the comments. We had a good group and we are very proud of the final result. We used TRS2004 because at that time there was a possibility of Trainz being released in India and we thought that TRS2004 would be the likely release. In Trainz years it is 11 years old, and I agree, it shows it.

The basic route was made by Hiballer using a DEM. Once he had the contours he laid the single track from one end to the other. He then divided it up into sections which were then parcelled out to the team allowing six people to work on it the same time, it was then reassembled by Bill to make the complete route. I think that we were the first group to use this disassembly method of group route creation.

He may not see this, I will ask if he has the original DEM before it was pruned and divided.

Peter

WindWalkr
August 14th, 2015, 09:26 AM
The basic route was made by Hiballer using a DEM.

I suspected that might be the case. The scale seems just a little too large to have been made that intricately by hand. It certainly plays some interesting tricks on the eye. I am very interested to see what it would look like with the surrounding terrain filled. Do you think the group would mind if we have a go at modernising it a little?

chris

ianwoodmore
August 14th, 2015, 12:59 PM
I'm having some difficulties with CM in build 77730.
This may be influenced by WIN 10 and nVidia updates occurring right now.
I was experimenting with some splines in kind track. Objects were track, road and telegraph wires.

I upversioned some assets to TB 3.7. AssetX says they are fine, but CM is falsely reporting Track-lod-tree container as missing when it is not. I have checked the structure of the config and it appears to be OK. In any case I've used this successfully many times before.

This may be related to my previous report on the exceedingly high false error rate after DBR. I'm loath to do another DBR until the next build. I've just corrected thousands of affected assets.

It so happens some of these were DHR. So following on from discussions in this thread I ran DHR TS12 Orig route and several DHR sessions in the latest Trainzdev build.
This PC has i7 CPU, dual GTX 780ti and 32GB quad channel RAM running latest WIN 10 and latest nVidia graphics driver and four monitors at 1920x 1080 100Hz async. It is thus DX12 ready.

As a consequence of these kind track asset errors I'm getting some missing visuals in track, road and telegraph wires as you would expect. With these missing I'm getting probably inflated FPS circa 70-90 FPS and very smooth rendering as the camera follows the train up the mountain twists and turns of the track. I have only one missing dependency kuid:47439:25613. Was that a builtin that has not surfaced yet on the DLS or is it on sirgibby's website?

What's astonishing is the fantastic improvement in the scenery in TANE compared to the legacy versions. I'm getting almost stereoscopic like rendering of some feature buildings against the background of trees and mountains.
Sure the billboard trees could do with replacing with speedtrees, provided they are good likenesses.
Sure some buildings look a little tatty but they probably do in real life.
And some buses and cars have tyres sunk into the ground.

BUT the potential for the DHR to be a showcase for TANE is high. If this is DEM based I'm not seeing the issues other people are reporting for other layouts.

Incidentally Peter, I have upversioned the vast majority of assets used in DHR to TB 3.7 with no apparent detrimental effects. I only have the kind track ones to complete, and then I will be able to determine a better FPS.

Ian (junior citizen - only 79 years young)

JCitron
August 14th, 2015, 01:39 PM
Ian,

What you are seeing is probably just the bugs in the new CM. In my replicated data, I have 276 assets that show up as faulty in the test build, yet these assets are fine according to the retail build. These errors are mostly LOD errors, however, there are some that are displaying attachment point errors such as missing people from passenger cars, and missing textures.

I too am running Windows 10, have the latest NVidia drivers and have been running Windows 10 since last November, so I doubt any of this is related to the operating system as that has much of the same underlying code as Windows 7 and Windows 8.

John

clam1952
August 16th, 2015, 09:48 AM
@ Ian


I have only one missing dependency kuid:47439:25613. Was that a builtin that has not surfaced yet on the DLS or is it on sirgibby's website?

It's a TS12 builtin, a waterfall to be precise, pretty sure it was in 2010 as well.

I agree the DHR does look impressive in T:ANE, would certainly make a good showcase route, It's finding the DHR project accidentally while searching for something else on the Web that got me interested in Trainz to start with!


Patching a DEM based route?

Can be done as I had to reinstate a few boards when I accidentally deleted Snowdon from the Welsh Highland part of my route which happens to be a somewhat prominent feature on my route especially now with T:ANES increased draw distance. Easier if you have kept the original unedited mapfile.gnd but can be done as I had to do by adjust and try to fit from microdem hog, Probably be a bit easier using Transdem to fill the gaps?

For the record, not seeing any of the problems some appear to be getting with Transdem routes, tried a couple of tests and they came out OK both using 10m and 5m grids.

ianwoodmore
August 16th, 2015, 11:28 AM
Now that WIN 10 Pro update and security patch have settled in, along with nVidia 353.62 graphics driver I can report some improvements in TANE build 77730 behaviour.

The memory leak issue where memory commit was excessive during CM Submit Edits is no longer apparent. Previously memory commit was climbing to use every last byte of physical and virtual memory available. Some 120GB commit compared to normal 1-2GB, and then wasn't releasing. This caused slow operation while Pagefiles on both SSD and HDD storage were swapped out with physical memory. Coupled with high CPU utilisation often exceeding 90% CPU, core temperatures climbed to 50deg C as compared to normal 35degC. Many lesser machines would have crumbled under the strain but good blower and fans saved the day.

I had been repairing a large number of KIND Track and spline assets that had been caused by this situation as a consequence of "file copy error", excessive false error rate, and corrupted config files with "wrong kuid". In particular, Track-LOD-Tree container looked normal but CM reported as missing. Deleting the container and re-instating corrected this error.

I have now repaired >5,000 of these assets using AssetX/PEVTools/TARDIS over the weekend. I have approx another 5,000 to do this week with every expectation of success.

Among the assets affected were a number of track and spline objects used by Darjeeling Himalaya Railway TS12 Orig route and sessions (DHR). I reported earlier that I had observed 70-90FPS with these assets missing. This rose to almost a steady 95-100FPS after WIN10 update on an i7CPU/dual GTX780ti GPU/32GB quad channel RAM with 4 monitors running at 1920x1080 100Hz Async windowed. Draw distance 3500m, high shadow, high water, multiple threads,texture streaming and physx on, post-processing high and process objects behind camera. As a matter of curiosity I then spanned TANE TrainDev build 77730 across 3 monitors, thus 5760x1080 resolution. The FPS was shared equally by each monitor so that DHR was running at a smooth 35 FPS. Looks like FPS is linear with respect to horiz resolution. I should be able to re-test this later this week.

Don't know what MS did but sure worked a treat, and obviously while TANE didn't cope with the extraordinary conditions it wasn't the prime cause of the failures in my opinion.

JCitron
August 16th, 2015, 12:41 PM
@ Ian



It's a TS12 builtin, a waterfall to be precise, pretty sure it was in 2010 as well.

I agree the DHR does look impressive in T:ANE, would certainly make a good showcase route, It's finding the DHR project accidentally while searching for something else on the Web that got me interested in Trainz to start with!
"..."

Patching a DEM based route?
if you have kept the original unedited mapfile.gnd but can be done as I had to do by adjust and try to fit from microdem hog, Probably be a bit easier using Transdem to fill the gaps?

For the record, not seeing any of the problems some appear to be getting with Transdem routes, tried a couple of tests and they came out OK both using 10m and 5m grids.

I enjoyed the DHR route myself back in the day and surely would enjoy seeing it updated. :)

It's a bit easier editing in TransDEM. You need to import a new route, figure out which bits you need to put back into the actual route, trim and Viola! The pieces fit in like a puzzle even if they are spread apart due to UTM positioning. I will say, having done this myself, that it can be a bit of a challenge to get the right pieces clipped and I resorted to drawing shapes on paper until I got the right bits to fill in the holes.

I too haven't see the same issues other have with TD routes. After resetting the environment and adjusting the lighting, it's business as usual.

John

narrowgauge
August 17th, 2015, 06:56 AM
I refer to the original post about Win10 and problems

I have reverted to WIN 7 64bit Ultimate and the problem persists. Actually it persists AFTER I have done a complete re-installation of the tin box version. To refresh memory, trouble free items , not necessarily mine, downloaded from the DLS are all labeled in CM screen as Faulty although when checked for errors they are shown as error free.

If it is suggested that the newly announced patch may help, after 5 hours of very slow downloading, the downloader decided it had an error and aborted. Needless to say I am not entirely happy about this. This was a virgin installation into a completely blank folder.

Tomorrow and tomorrows tomorrow I will repeats the whole exercise. Life is too short for this. It obviously is peculiar to my computer but where do I start to find out why? One possible pointer is that this started after I upgraded to WIN 10. Perhaps some residual hangover? Repair?

Peter

WindWalkr
August 17th, 2015, 08:47 AM
A reinstallation doesn't really matter, unless you deleted and/or used a new data directory. I assume you haven't done this, because otherwise you'd be installing new content rather than trying to validate the existing ones?

Not sure what patch you're referring to, nor which build you're actually testing in here. The live patches are a lot older than the builds that you have access to as a trainzdev member so unless you're specifically trying to test a release build, you'd likely be better off sticking to the test builds.

thanks,

chris

ianwoodmore
August 17th, 2015, 01:56 PM
@Peter

Faulty items

Very likely.
There are new validations in addition to the stringent compliance of TS12 SP1 HF4.
The .texture.txt/.tga issue with ART_ICON and ART_512 are very prevalent.
The fault status window still has a lot of geek info there until you commit.
Warnings are multiplying horrendously concerning LOD requirements.
I suffered almost 25% false errors after database Rebuild. Most can be cleared by OFE/Commit.

Most faults can be repaired quite easily but takes a lot of effort because of the large number.
Light at end of tunnel is that TANE is behaving better now than ever, and frankly I will never go back to legacy versions including TS12.

New Instals

Unfortunately, we are competing with millions of people upgrading to WIN 10 and new nVidia drivers. Internet very busy and subject to dropouts or throttling.
I had to download Trainzbuild 77730 four times to get a complete instal. My frustration is even greater as currently my local loop is slow copper. I'm supposed to have 200mbps fibre instal by now, but like most things these days it hasn't arrived yet.

Good news is the instal

ianwoodmore
August 17th, 2015, 02:09 PM
@Peter

Faulty items

Very likely.
There are new validations in addition to the stringent compliance of TS12 SP1 HF4.
The .texture.txt/.tga issue with ART_ICON and ART_512 are very prevalent.
The fault status window still has a lot of geek info there until you commit.
Warnings are multiplying horrendously concerning LOD requirements.
I suffered almost 25% false errors after database Rebuild. Most can be cleared by OFE/Commit.

Most faults can be repaired quite easily but takes a lot of effort because of the large number.
Light at end of tunnel is that TANE is behaving better now than ever, and frankly I will never go back to legacy versions including TS12.

New Instals

Unfortunately, we are competing with millions of people upgrading to WIN 10 and new nVidia drivers. Internet very busy and subject to dropouts or throttling.
I had to download Trainzbuild 77730 four times to get a complete instal. My frustration is even greater as currently my local loop is slow copper. I'm supposed to have 200mbps fibre instal by now, but like most things these days it hasn't arrived yet.

Good news is the instal

ianwoodmore
August 17th, 2015, 02:23 PM
@Peter

Faulty items

Very likely.
There are new validations in addition to the stringent compliance of TS12 SP1 HF4.
The .texture.txt/.tga issue with ART_ICON and ART_512 are very prevalent.
The fault status window still has a lot of geek info there until you commit.
Warnings are multiplying horrendously concerning LOD requirements.
I suffered almost 25% false errors after database Rebuild. Most can be cleared by OFE/Commit.

Most faults can be repaired quite easily but takes a lot of effort because of the large number.
Light at end of tunnel is that TANE is behaving better now than ever, and frankly I will never go back to legacy versions including TS12.

New Instals

Unfortunately, we are competing with millions of people upgrading to WIN 10 and new nVidia drivers. Internet very busy and subject to dropouts or throttling.
I had to download Trainzbuild 77730 four times to get a complete instal. My frustration is even greater as currently my local loop is slow copper. I'm supposed to have 200mbps fibre instal by now, but like most things these days it hasn't arrived yet.

Good news is the instal goes flawlessly. which is more than I can say for typing replies in this forum.

Sorry about the repeat posts. This is the fourth time I've tried to enter further info in this post. WIN 10 issue I think, as I'm using Edge browser. It keeps disappearing while you are posting.

narrowgauge
August 17th, 2015, 06:55 PM
Ian.

The problem is that according to the "check for faults and missing dependencies" routine I am told that all the item have no faults and no missing dependencies. However, on the main listing window every downloaded item is labeled as faulty. This is not just my stuff, assets from other people, after downloading, show the same.

I have re-installed the tin box T:ane to see if this helps.

Peter

Just checked. There is no change in the new installation, the problem persists.

narrowgauge
August 19th, 2015, 12:46 AM
More on the subject. I have installed the update to the tin box version, and also the latest internal version. In both programs I still get the problem I originally posted about. This image tells the tale
746
A simple downloaded object, obviously not faulty because it was on the DLS, this is confirmed by the View Errors and Dependencies app but the listing does not agree. I accept that it is related to my machine but can someone suggest what it might be or where it could be. A possible clue is that this started after I upgraded to Win 10 and has now persisted after I reverted. What are the most likely offenders.

Is it possible to run the WIN 7 original disk in repair mode without losing data?

Peter

pcas1986
August 19th, 2015, 01:01 AM
More on the subject. I have installed the update to the tin box version, and also the latest internal version. In both programs I still get the problem I originally posted about. This image tells the tale
746
A simple downloaded object, obviously not faulty because it was on the DLS, this is confirmed by the View Errors and Dependencies app but the listing does not agree. I accept that it is related to my machine but can someone suggest what it might be or where it could be. A possible clue is that this started after I upgraded to Win 10 and has now persisted after I reverted. What are the most likely offenders.

Is it possible to run the WIN 7 original disk in repair mode without losing data?

Peter


I haven't been following this thread in detail but I suggest that action might be fraught with danger and I would only do it as a last resort. I just downloaded that 30/60 asset into T:ANE 77730 and it is not marked faulty. There are some warnings.

Is it possible that your userdata-redirect-map.txt is corrupt, or perhaps the userdata section is pointing to the wrong database? Just a wild thought.

None of my T:ANE installations are in the default user data space. I've been using that policy since the early pre release betas and it works really well for me. I use Win 10 (64) and, apart from the menu colour problem discussed elsewhere, Win 10 works well.

narrowgauge
August 19th, 2015, 01:53 AM
Thanks Paul.

Like you, all by installations are on a separate SSD.

Win 10 introduced this in some way, that's when the problem started.

[QUOTE][Is it possible that your userdata-redirect-map.txt is corrupt, or perhaps the userdata section is pointing to the wrong database? Just a wild thought/QUOTE]

Whatever it is has persisted through two new installations -76401 & 77730- into two new folders on the dedicated Trainz/T:ane SSD. I have one more thing to try. Prior to the Win 10 upgrade I fitted an EVO 500gb SSD and I still have the smaller SSD that was replaced. I'm in the process of swapping them over.

Peter

narrowgauge
August 23rd, 2015, 02:19 AM
I have some good news. For no apparent reason the T:ane CM bug that I reported, that may have been related to Win10 and was still evident after reverting to Win7, has now gone away. Don't ask me why, I dunno! I got this in #76401, I''ll report on how #77730 behaves later.

Peter

pcas1986
August 23rd, 2015, 05:12 AM
I have some good news. For no apparent reason the T:ane CM bug that I reported, that may have been related to Win10 and was still evident after reverting to Win7, has now gone away. Don't ask me why, I dunno! I got this in #76401, I''ll report on how #77730 behaves later.

Peter

No, it hasn't gone away, its just hiding. :D Don't you just love computers.

I've had a weird boot up error since installing W10 that has something to do with a driver. The error message looked like a very bad Chinese to English translation and didn't identify the driver concerned so it was useless. But my cordless mouse was playing up and particularly in Blender where finite control is important. Eventually, I downloaded some Logitech software and the error message no longer occurs. The mouse seems to be ok now but its on probation. If it doesn't get better then it will be a trip to Officeworks for a new one.

Cheers

JCitron
August 23rd, 2015, 10:25 AM
No, it hasn't gone away, its just hiding. :D Don't you just love computers.

I've had a weird boot up error since installing W10 that has something to do with a driver. The error message looked like a very bad Chinese to English translation and didn't identify the driver concerned so it was useless. But my cordless mouse was playing up and particularly in Blender where finite control is important. Eventually, I downloaded some Logitech software and the error message no longer occurs. The mouse seems to be ok now but its on probation. If it doesn't get better then it will be a trip to Officeworks for a new one.

Cheers

I sometimes feel like I've opened a fortune cookie. ;)

Event Viewer is friend; consult often.

John

pcas1986
August 23rd, 2015, 11:43 PM
...

Event Viewer is friend; consult often.

John

I did, but it just warned about another application. And the error message is back - obviously because I said it was gone. As an (ex) software engineer I should know better. :(

JCitron
August 24th, 2015, 12:19 AM
I did, but it just warned about another application. And the error message is back - obviously because I said it was gone. As an (ex) software engineer I should know better. :(

That's the way it goes. Obtuse error messages though aren't uncommon as we know. :)

Have you tried new drivers, or resorted to the built-in ones?

I ended up using the built-ins for my mouse because the supplied ones were awful, caused awful lag. The built-in generic from Microsoft works fine and I don't use all the fancy mouse profiling anyway...

John

pcas1986
August 24th, 2015, 12:50 AM
My mouse suffers from the "Hawthorne Effect" so if you try to test/examine it then it works fine. But every now and then the pointer just doesn't move. Maybe this is the lag you mentioned. It didn't do this before Win 10.

I've change batteries twice and they usually last for months. Maybe it and my Marvin the Martian mouse pad have had a falling out. :o

narrowgauge
August 24th, 2015, 01:00 AM
I have some good news. For no apparent reason the T:ane CM bug that I reported, that may have been related to Win10 and was still evident after reverting to Win7, has now gone away. Don't ask me why, I dunno! I got this in #76401, I''ll report on how #77730 behaves later.

Even better news. The problem does not exist in a clean install of #77730. Definitely not a T:ane glitch.

Peter