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andi06
June 17th, 2015, 03:19 AM
I think that we understand why its not possible to delete unwanted content and I think that you understand that we find it useful to be able to weed out some of the dross from our installations. On the face of it disabling unwanted assets meets our requirements by allowing us to remove stuff from the Surveyor lists that we are not ever going to want to use.

Its particularly appealing to me to be able to exclude non-UK traincars and poor quality ground textures from the Surveyor lists, browsing the lists becomes a much less frustrating experience.

However having disabled all my Australian traincars if I should happen to load an Australian route and session nothing will work (because all the items that I've disabled are missing) There is no sort of indication of missing content - its just missing! Disabled scenery items and ground-textures simply don't show up - disabled traincars cause other issues.

This behaviour is unhelpful, to say the least.

Surely the effect of disabling an item should be to prevent it from being seen or placed by myself. If it is in use in a route, especially a built in route, it should still be functioning irrespective of its enabled/disabled status.

WindWalkr
June 17th, 2015, 03:59 AM
Surely the effect of disabling an item should be to prevent it from being seen or placed by myself. If it is in use in a route, especially a built in route, it should still be functioning irrespective of its enabled/disabled status.

Perhaps so, but different people have different ideas about what is correct here.

chris

andi06
June 17th, 2015, 04:19 AM
If I'm a route builder I might want to ensure that the only trees I'm using on a new route are SpeedTrees. There isn't really any easy way to recognise the difference between these and billboards using only the Surveyor lists. So I disable all of the non SpeedtTree trees and I have achieved my goal.

However I have a couple of old favourite routes which use billboard trees, I still like to play with these routes from time to time but by disabling billboard trees I have effectively broken them (with no explanation from the game as to what has gone wrong) From my point of view I am now between a rock and a hard place.

I can't immediately think of a scenario where anybody might consider the current behaviour helpful - can you?

WindWalkr
June 17th, 2015, 04:22 AM
Yes: if the user wants to truly disable an asset, not just hide it from the listings. Which isn't something that I agree should be possible, personally, but as I said- different people have different ideas.

chris

andi06
June 17th, 2015, 04:28 AM
Yes: if the user wants to truly disable an asset, not just hide it from the listings. Which isn't something that I agree should be possible, personally, but as I said- different people have different ideas.
Well if you don't think that the current behaviour should be possible and I can't think of a reason why anyone should be able to 'truly disable' an asset (I'm willing to bet that the majority of users would agree with me) that leaves us in a very unsatisfactory position. Is there any chance of changing this?

WindWalkr
June 17th, 2015, 06:12 AM
I can't think of a reason why anyone should be able to 'truly disable' an asset

Because they don't want that asset to load into the game. This is basically the poor man's "delete a builtin asset" option.



Is there any chance of changing this?

Doubtful. Someone wants it this way, or it never would have been implemented in the first place. I'll raise it for review at some point but I wouldn't hold my breath on it being changed.

chris

andi06
June 17th, 2015, 06:35 AM
Someone wants it this way, or it never would have been implemented in the first place.
I'm not convinced that was ever intended behaviour. Do you realise that its possible to select every asset in 'Base' and disable the whole lot? I haven't been brave enough to confirm the effect of this on the game. :)



I'll raise it for review at some point but I wouldn't hold my breath on it being changed.
Fair enough, I will add it to the CM wishlist.

WindWalkr
June 17th, 2015, 06:46 AM
I'm not convinced that was ever intended behaviour. Do you realise that its possible to select every asset in 'Base' and disable the whole lot?

It doesn't surprise me, certainly. Just because you and I might think it's dumb, doesn't mean that everyone agrees. If you were asking me to implement it, I'd easily say no, but since somebody has cared enough to get it into the game, it's not going to be just a matter of me agreeing with you and ripping it out again.



Fair enough, I will add it to the CM wishlist.

Do that. Might also add a request for your alternate option (ie. the 'hide from listings' variant.)

chris

andi06
June 17th, 2015, 08:47 AM
It looks like I was correct in not being convinced that this was ever intended behaviour.

In TS12 disabling items has exactly the effect I'm asking for (they are simply hidden from the Surveyor lists)

Which makes the behaviour exhibited by TANE into a bug, and I would suggest a rather serious bug.

Dap
June 21st, 2015, 07:55 PM
i must agree with Andi06.

David

andi06
November 6th, 2015, 06:30 PM
We still have this unsatisfactory situation with disabled content.

In TS12 and previous disabling content does this:
1. Hides the asset from the Surveyor picklists
2. Does NOT prevent the asset from appearing in existing routes.

In TANE disabling content does this:
1. Hides the asset from the Surveyor picklists
2. Prevents the asset from appearing in any route, in some cases making the route unusable.

I know that you agree with this but you never got around to agreeing that the current situation is a bug. That having been said what are our chances of getting the TS12 behaviou restored - I'm absolutely sick of wading though hundreds of pages of US speedboards and signals in the lists.

ianwoodmore
November 6th, 2015, 08:32 PM
I'm currently at Trainzdev build 79135, and staying there until next week's release of new patcher and functionality.

Frankly the TANE implementation is extremely limited in achieving content management of DISABLED assets.

In addition to Andi's reported bugs, for the last two months I've used DISABLED to:

1. Hide them in custom CM filters to compensate for the lack of defect mode filters. eg Has Warnings is an umbrella statement when really you need to separate several different problems, eg say >500 polys in asset TB 3.7 which you know is an error in TANE and there are thousands of them, from other less important warnings.

2. To park CRAP so I don't keep re-visiting a known defect I can't repair. eg. Missing meshes or textures.

3. To park defective assets that I don't want to repair immediately but I will be able at a more convenient time. eg. PM Meshes or unsupported slots or Uniform Color or ART folder issues.

There are also several gotchas:

4. Unless you modify a download filter by adding:

AND
enabled

or alternatively

enabled true

then the download list includes DISABLED assets but fails to tell you so. In fact it tells you it is 'available for download'. Consequently attempts to download a batch results in CM failing to complete this process for no apparently obvious reason.

5. The 'Disable' toggle in Content menu does not change to 'Enable'.

6. While you can pull up 'List Dependencies' and 'List Dependants' to see what is affected, you cannot use 'View Errors and Warnings' without getting this type of message:

- Asset <kuid2:58377:60040:1> is not available

So you have to enable first to discover what the problem is. Kind of unhelpful.

The last one could be considered a pro or a con, depending on your viewpoint and intended goal.

7. It affects the faulty, faulty dependency, missing dependency and warning statistics. eg. I had over 2,000 defective assets by Bugor that have several missing mesh-assets in a library asset ( a common defect I might add). Seemed a good idea to park them so I could concentrate on other defective assets.

Similarly, with 650 unsupported Speedtree Mk 5 assets until someone develops an automated exchange scheme for Mk 6 speedtree equivalents.

And then there's the thousand or so "Fenfe*" assets.

In all I had 3,600+ DISABLED assets that I have had to re-examine to discover why I disabled them months ago. As with other defective assets that currently cannot be rendered in Preview, it would have been a less onerous task if I could have seen what is wrong by visual examination in Preview.