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View Full Version : Any interest in a Norfolk & Western project?



jrcrawford4
November 25th, 2006, 10:40 PM
I'm curious to know if any of the very talented Trainz modelers out there have any interest in putting together an N&W route. If a group of these folks pooled their abilities for the sole purpose of builidng this, it could be one of the best routes ever made for Trainz. There would be no need to form a permanent group, but a "limited" group could succeed by relying on contributions from talented individuals and members of existing groups. It would also offer the Trainz community several things:

1. more steam
2. diverse but manageable - and enjoyable - operations comprised of both switching ops and mainline running, including both freight and passenger schedules. Even shop moves.
3. beautiful scenery
4. a cohesive, "self-contained" environment. By that I mean that the end result would achieve a unique and seamless feel by having all contributors working toward the same goal - rather than forcing the representation of a given railroad through an assemblage of disparate models and scenery drawn from freeware, payware, DLS, non-DLS, etc. etc. etc.

The seamlessness could be achieved, in part at least, by having high quality models of N&W steam engines, roundhouses, shops, stations, signals, freight and passenger equipment, etc. It could be further achieved by focusing on a specific division or portion of a division, and still further achieved by focusing on a specific time frame.

5. the possibility of providing a platform for a true multi-player platform (as in virtual dispatchers, yardmasters, crews, managers, as far as you want to take it, rather than just AI and portals) if Auran were to support and assist such a third-party effort and direct it as far as getting it to meet their technical ability to provide multiplayer. Multiplayer Trainz has been discussed at length before and I can't possibly recount all of it here, so I hope it'll suffice to say that I think this project could lend itself well to multiplayer - if that option becomes available.

6. This would be an effort with "dedicated" map, content, rolling stock, etc. - with permissions and licenses and distribution and use restrictions being part and parcel of the same body. Achieve that by distributing it through Auran as a Trainz Classic. Auran would get sales. Contributors would get good exposure plus that "incentive" that was mentioned with the announcement of Trainz Classics. Everybody wins.

I'd personally love to build the terrain for a 1950s-era N&W division - especially Radford, Shenandoah, or - perhaps even better - the stretch of N&W from Radford to Roanoke, which carried both Radford and Pocahontas Division trains. Heavy coal trains, empty hopper runs, merchandise freights, legendary passenger trains, and all classes of N&W motive power and rolling stock.

Anyhow - I think it'd be fun!

Thoughts?

Rob

Duckslayer92
November 25th, 2006, 10:54 PM
I think it sounds great I have never tried to create anything but if it wounldn't be much trouble it would be a good learning experience I think for me. I would be glad to help in anyway I can.:)

ethandude
November 25th, 2006, 11:02 PM
Although I'm more of an SP fan, I think it would be fun to recreate part of the N&W. I know I'm not a "very talented Trainz modeler" but given the proper materials I could still whip out some decent items and I can learn more as things progress. The 1950's era would be a great time period to model and the multiplayer possibility sounds really cool. The main thing I could see becoming a problem is the number of polys would add up to a level that high end computers could only handle.


Ethan:)

jrcrawford4
November 25th, 2006, 11:17 PM
Although I'm more of an SP fan, I think it would be fun to recreate part of the N&W. I know I'm not a "very talented Trainz modeler" but given the proper materials I could still whip out some decent items and I can learn more as things progress. The 1950's era would be a great time period to model and the multiplayer possibility sounds really cool. The main thing I could see becoming a problem is the number of polys would add up to a level that high end computers could only handle.


Ethan:)

Glad you pointed that out - perhaps I should not have said "very talented" as it does sound discriminatory. I think I'm "pretty good" at route building - some might say very good, others might say not at all good. What I should have said was that I think everybody has something in Trainz they are good at, but few, if any, of us are good at everything Trainz. I may be "pretty good" at route-building, but I couldn't build my way out of a 3D paper bag when it comes to content creation. So one of the "perks" of the project is that it could combine individual strengths into something with high overall quality.

Good point also about the polys. That is something I think would have to be part of Auran's "directing" as only they know where the fattest part of the bell curve is when it comes to their customer's specs. They are certainly better informed on that than we are. On the other hand, I think it would be easier to stay within a group poly budget rather than trying to coordinate hundreds of individual creators' poly budgets into something that works.

@Duckslayer92 - thanks!:)

I should also mention that I'm not gunning to be "in charge" of this thing - I just think it's very worth doing. I could coordinate it, if that's what people want, but I'd be just as happy (maybe moreso;)) simply contributing to it.

ethandude
November 25th, 2006, 11:35 PM
Glad you pointed that out - perhaps I should not have said "very talented" as it does sound discriminatory. I think I'm "pretty good" at route building - some might say very good, others might say not at all good. What I should have said was that I think everybody has something in Trainz they are good at, but few, if any, of us are good at everything Trainz. I may be "pretty good" at route-building, but I couldn't build my way out of a 3D paper bag when it comes to content creation. So one of the "perks" of the project is that it could combine individual strengths into something with high overall quality.

Good point also about the polys. That is something I think would have to be part of Auran's "directing" as only they know where the fattest part of the bell curve is when it comes to their customer's specs. They are certainly better informed on that than we are. On the other hand, I think it would be easier to stay within a group poly budget rather than trying to coordinate hundreds of individual creators' poly budgets into something that works.

@Duckslayer92 - thanks!:)

I should also mention that I'm not gunning to be "in charge" of this thing - I just think it's very worth doing. I could coordinate it, if that's what people want, but I'd be just as happy (maybe moreso;)) simply contributing to it.

"Very talented" I agree is discriminary and although there are some very talented people in the trainz community but there aren't many. Plus, it doesn't take a group of very talented people to make nice route.

The main thing that made me think of the high polys were N&W's big mallets that they had.

I know your not gunning to be in charge of this but since its your idea I think it might be good for you to atleast coordinate it.:)

Ethan:)

titaniclover
November 26th, 2006, 12:51 AM
if high poly count is your problem just seperate the route into smalller sections. put them in all the seasons. i would love to help. im not good but it would be a very fun learning experiance for me. as a 13 year old i am restricted to certain things.

jrcrawford4
November 26th, 2006, 01:47 AM
I'm no expert, but I think the N&W is extremely well documented. There is a ton of archival information here - http://www.nwhs.org/. They have a searchable online listing of drawings, books, photos, etc. No, you can't access archival material directly over the internet, but you can browse and see that they have drawings of everything from the handles on a Y6 firebox door to concrete roadways at Roanoke Shops to the location of the Winston-Salem turntable, to just about everything in between.

Big help to anybody wanting to make models.

ethandude
November 26th, 2006, 01:54 AM
if high poly count is your problem just seperate the route into smalller sections. put them in all the seasons. i would love to help. im not good but it would be a very fun learning experiance for me. as a 13 year old i am restricted to certain things.

Even if the route was seperated into smaller sections but still built to high detail/poly standard, it would still probably only work well on high computers. Although, having the different seasons would be neat though.....

Ethan:)

jrcrawford4
November 26th, 2006, 01:59 AM
Yeah, I think the problem would be after you put the smaller sections together, the polys would then take a toll. Would sort of depend on how big a chunk of railroad was modeled, too.

Jimmyp4
November 26th, 2006, 12:15 PM
You should try to model near Roanoke, Virgina. It was the N&W's main hub and contained many of there steam shops. Many years ago I was a huge N&W fan because of one thing, Steam. The N&W kept there steam engines longer then any other railroad, primarily because there main bissness was coal. They had the most technologicly advanced steam shops around in Roanoke. If I had a choice I would say give J1 #611 a place in Trainz. In 1983 the Norfalk Southern started a steam program with J1 #611 and a Y6b #1218 (An articulated 2-8-8-4). In 1995 NS cancled the steam program and the engines where sent away. The railway museum of Virgina now owns #611. The Y6b went with #611 to the VRRM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_and_Western_611
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_and_Western_Railway
http://www.kohlin.com/rr3/nw611-1.jpg
#611 Steaming along on the NS steam program
http://mud.mm-a4.yimg.com/image/1110948731
#611 Currently
http://mud.mm-a4.yimg.com/image/1110945307
The Y6b

jrcrawford4
November 26th, 2006, 12:29 PM
Yes, the Roanoke area is my preference because of its significance to N&W locomotive construction, its central location, and the sheer volume of traffic that passed through there (and still does).

BTW, I think you meant to say that #1218 is an A-class.;)

Rob

ethandude
November 26th, 2006, 03:24 PM
Yeah, I think the problem would be after you put the smaller sections together, the polys would then take a toll. Would sort of depend on how big a chunk of railroad was modeled, too.

Yeah, and the amount of trains would also take a toll on fps too. Modeling Ranoke sounds like a good idea.

Ethan:)

fordmercman
November 26th, 2006, 05:36 PM
I have been working on The Detroit,Toledo and Ironton since Trainz was released in the US. Part of the N&W Scioto division(Portsmouth to Columbus) will be included in it. I am also working on the N&W's Jawn Henry. However,it would be great to see an N&W project come forward.
Joe Swogger, CEO The Bald-One Locomotive Werkz

titaniclover
November 26th, 2006, 06:30 PM
If I had a choice I would say give J1 #611 a place in Trainz. In 1983 the Norfalk Southern started a steam program with J1 #611 and a Y6b #1218 (An articulated 2-8-8-4). In 1995 NS cancled the steam program and the engines where sent away. The railway museum of Virgina now owns #611. The Y6b went with #611 to the VRRM.

rail4pete i think i have the 2-8-8-4 articulated steam loco. but the cab is horribly made nothing is interactive and it uses a diesel electric hud panle for the most of it. i am currently taking the loco specs of the loco used in the urban indusrtail and putting that in the loco 2-8-8-4. i hope this will resolve the problem with that loco if not i will use the original. also does anyone know where i can find the Zypher loco and cars?
ethandude if you love SP i think you will love the GS-4 class. also know as the Daylight.

ethandude
November 26th, 2006, 10:10 PM
rail4pete i think i have the 2-8-8-4 articulated steam loco. but the cab is horribly made nothing is interactive and it uses a diesel electric hud panle for the most of it. i am currently taking the loco specs of the loco used in the urban indusrtail and putting that in the loco 2-8-8-4. i hope this will resolve the problem with that loco if not i will use the original. also does anyone know where i can find the Zypher loco and cars?
ethandude if you love SP i think you will love the GS-4 class. also know as the Daylight.

Thanks for the SP info.

Ethan:)

wvman
November 27th, 2006, 08:13 PM
I though someone was doing a N&W Route.I've seen a few pictures and post but I've never seen it finished or uploaded to the DL.

wvman
November 28th, 2006, 10:55 PM
Just started And I'm learning at the same time,so don't hold your breath.
This is just at the end of Williamson you can see RT52 in the distance.
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1589/williamson01pl0.jpg
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/705/williamson02is7.jpg

sfrr
November 29th, 2006, 08:35 AM
I'm pretty experinced track man, so I can do tracks for you if you want,
its no problem at all, except time....i have saurday, and sunday free, then half of today, and 5:30 after shcool everyday, i think this will be a great project. oh yea for all you who didnt know, alt + u = fly mode. alt + y = walk mode. its pretty cool.

mike.

EDIT: sorry, didnt see your doing it.... i would love to help though, im very experinced been using trainz for 4 years now.

jrcrawford4
November 29th, 2006, 08:22 PM
Thanks, Mike, actually I haven't started doing it yet (although I do love track laying); was just testing the waters to see who'd be interested in helping bring this off. Very glad to see there are some N&W fans among us! :)

So maybe I should ask: who'd be interested in making - and able to make - models of steam locomotives, rolling stock, and buildings, etc?

ethandude
November 29th, 2006, 08:28 PM
Thanks, Mike, actually I haven't started doing it yet (although I do love track laying); was just testing the waters to see who'd be interested in helping bring this off. Very glad to see there are some N&W fans among us! :)

So maybe I should ask: who'd be interested in making - and able to make - models of steam locomotives, rolling stock, and buildings, etc?

I'd be interested in making some models and have the ability to:D.

Ethan:)

nikos1
November 29th, 2006, 08:33 PM
hi jrcrawford4,
if you are really interested in making a high quality, high detail route of the NW (which guessing from your other routes you are :)) then i would be glad to skin you some diesels and mabye steamers and buildings (if you can supply the pics;)) also if you want help with route building i could help with that too.

nikos

jrcrawford4
November 30th, 2006, 12:33 AM
Hey that's great! Let me do some research and see about photos of things. I'm willing to supply things like that, depending on cost. Some archival stuff can get really expensive. But I'll see what I can find and let you know. Only thing I probably can't do is travel up to the Roanoke area to take photos (unfortunately) - I can't get away from my "real" job. Not the next several months anyway.:)

Other thing I need to do is check on the availability of maps and DEMs. I don't think DEMs will be a problem, but I just want to check and see if what's available will fit into what I know how to do (which ain't much :P).

Is everybody sort of happy with the Roanoke area? Roanoke itself is enormous (been looking at it with Google Earth) and the shops - if done to the nth degree - are going to be a bear to do. But, on the other hand, N&W and Virginian ran pretty close together around there before the merger, so it also creates the opportunity to have a little diversity (Virginian FM Trainmasters on one side of the river; A's and Y's on the other. Drool!). Anyhow - if Roanoke is ok, I'll start with that and see what's involved.

Cheers!
Rob

Jimmyp4
November 30th, 2006, 03:15 PM
Maybe we could divide up this project? I mean we could all put together some small moduals and hook them up as the full route. It would save stress on alot of us. In that case we could model a few differnt areas in quicker time! I would have to sick to a small space but it can be done!

sfrr
November 30th, 2006, 03:49 PM
Me and jrcrawford4 can do the track work....nikos1 and ethandude can do the models(trains, reskins, buildings, rollingstock)....and some more people could do stuff...here are some pics of stuff im working on right now...

this is my current NG fictional route based in the U.S.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/sfrr1/trainz2006-11-2920-57-43-23.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/sfrr1/trainz2006-11-2920-57-29-03.jpg
that was 2 days ago, this is what i did today...
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/sfrr1/Screen_005.jpg

hope you like it.

mike.

Jimmyp4
November 30th, 2006, 05:06 PM
Looks great!

ethandude
November 30th, 2006, 05:36 PM
Hey that's great! Let me do some research and see about photos of things. I'm willing to supply things like that, depending on cost. Some archival stuff can get really expensive. But I'll see what I can find and let you know. Only thing I probably can't do is travel up to the Roanoke area to take photos (unfortunately) - I can't get away from my "real" job. Not the next several months anyway.:)

Other thing I need to do is check on the availability of maps and DEMs. I don't think DEMs will be a problem, but I just want to check and see if what's available will fit into what I know how to do (which ain't much :P).

Is everybody sort of happy with the Roanoke area? Roanoke itself is enormous (been looking at it with Google Earth) and the shops - if done to the nth degree - are going to be a bear to do. But, on the other hand, N&W and Virginian ran pretty close together around there before the merger, so it also creates the opportunity to have a little diversity (Virginian FM Trainmasters on one side of the river; A's and Y's on the other. Drool!). Anyhow - if Roanoke is ok, I'll start with that and see what's involved.

Cheers!
Rob

The Roanoke area sounds good, and then maybe expanding to inlcude a subdivision at a later time.:) I could handle making the trains if I was given a decent amount of time to do so.:D

Ethan:)

jrcrawford4
November 30th, 2006, 06:01 PM
There's no deadline.:)

sfrr
November 30th, 2006, 08:11 PM
Looks great!

hey thanks Jimmyp4, i worked hard on it and still am, it feels good to be complimented on my work.

mike.

nikos1
November 30th, 2006, 09:39 PM
There's no deadline.:)

yay perfect for me:rolleyes::p

ethandude
November 30th, 2006, 09:42 PM
There's no deadline.:)
cool:D:p:D

sfrr
November 30th, 2006, 10:29 PM
lol you guys =)

ethandude
November 30th, 2006, 11:31 PM
lol you guys =)
whats so funny:p? Is a problem to have some fun?:D:p:D
Just joking.:)

Ethan:)

backyard
December 1st, 2006, 05:23 AM
:cool: Thanks for the suggestion jrcrawford4.

I was waiting for Digital Elevation Mapping to be mentioned.

Here are two very Norfolk & Western routes, created by Fishlipsatwork(Paul Haglund).
Lynchburg, VA to Narrows, VA.
(http://www.fishlips.net/Trainz/Lynchburg%20-%20Narrows/)
West Virginia (http://www.fishlips.net/Trainz/West%20Virginia/). This is Norton to Bluefield.

Here is the Virginia Track Chart(NS).
Virginia
Division Track Chart(NS) (http://cgi.ebay.com/RR-Issue-Norfolk-Southern-Virginia-track-chart-</p><p>2003_W0QQitemZ150065621425QQihZ005QQcategoryZ95165 QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem).

jrcrawford4
December 1st, 2006, 02:40 PM
Thanks for those links, Allen! Will definitely look into those.

Rob

sfrr
December 1st, 2006, 02:47 PM
so.....when do we get started? :D

mike.

EDIT: whos doing the DEM? if you are send it to me at sfrr@charter.net in a .cdp (obviousley).

jrcrawford4
December 1st, 2006, 04:29 PM
Well, I'm going to look into the DEMs and will do the HOG and tracklaying. Depending on the size, we'll go from there, I think. As yet, we still need models of equipment and buildings, and need to explore the possibility of working through Auran. They may have zero interest. To be brutally honest, I'd think that if they were interested at all they might have posted here. But I know they have lots to do, so that's not a complaint. Just an observation. But there's no rush to do it; in fact, rushing it would be the worst thing.

One other thing - my real job keeps me pretty busy, so please bear with me. :)

Rob

Jimmyp4
December 1st, 2006, 04:53 PM
I think I will be the Librarian! I am good at collecting info for routes (although none of my real life ones made it past inspection!)!

nikos1
December 1st, 2006, 05:54 PM
i dont want to get banned or have this thread deleted (:rolleyes:) but i for one am against working with auran, i have personal reasons and by working with auran that would probably limit the objects we could use (we would have to use default objects...barf) and it would make our route payware and there are some creators that dont want their stuff used in payware routes ( including the creators of some of my favorite objects.)
just my opinion...

titaniclover
December 1st, 2006, 06:16 PM
i agree this should not envolve auran at all...

bdaneal
December 1st, 2006, 07:30 PM
While the N&W isn't a favorite railroad of mine, I could contribute a Y2, K3, or M2 to the project. It might even be possible to talk me into doing a J or Y3. I'll pass on the Y6s and As, though.

Cheers,
Ben

sfrr
December 2nd, 2006, 01:34 PM
hey guys I was messing around with some Norflok & Western stuff I had and came up with this picture...

I edited in the smoke from the engines and I think it looks pretty cool

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r176/sfrr1/Screen_025.jpg

drewman
December 2nd, 2006, 01:44 PM
heck yeah:) :) :) :) :) :)

sfrr
December 2nd, 2006, 04:02 PM
heck yeah:) :) :) :) :) :)


hey thanks drewman :)

ethandude
December 2nd, 2006, 04:50 PM
I'm ready to start building trains/buildings once I recieve drawings for them.

Ethan:)

sfrr
December 2nd, 2006, 08:37 PM
yup same here, man too bad i was really looking forward to doing track work :(

mike

neon612
December 2nd, 2006, 08:45 PM
NW isn't exactly my favprite roadname but I'd still like to give model making or route work a try.

sfrr
December 3rd, 2006, 09:52 PM
:D yea same here, i will make routes of anything

backyard
December 5th, 2006, 05:37 AM
:cool: This is important.

DEM routes are so needed, for the real time operations of the trains we now are able to run!

neon612
December 13th, 2006, 08:47 PM
so.....when do we get started? :D

mike.


Yeah what he said:D

steamtrainman
December 13th, 2006, 08:50 PM
Well if you need any help for pics, plans, or information on the locomotives. i work at the official museum of transportation in Roanoke VA and i can help on what you need :D
I have information on...(their trains(as in rolling stock), Routes, and Locomotives I can even give you a pic of the 1218 cab if you wish!)
N&W, Southern, Virginian, or NS railroads. And i can procure a Roanoke area rail map for you all :)
If you need me MSN or email!

whistlepig
January 18th, 2007, 01:07 PM
Been away from the forum for a while, and just stumbled across this. Any status on where things stand on this? I have been working on a route of the Roanoke/Salem area for a while now, but moreso for a personal need than anything else. I started out with the Salem area, mainly for need of a training aid in my place of employment, but then progressed into the Roanoke area since having lived here all my life. At this point, it is mainly at the track and elevation stages, with some scenery and textures added.

Anyone else out there, especially anyone with some modeling skills that can help with the unique structures and such, give me a holler!

Sir Rodney

Pencil42
January 18th, 2007, 01:29 PM
There's been some progress at http://www.trainzproroutes.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4968