View Full Version : N3V Can Relax Now

September 19th, 2014, 06:26 AM
The competitive product update revealed a total commitment to customers who only want to drive trains and buy routes and locomotives. It is the most silly thing I have ever seen. They devoted the majority of the update to an "Academy" where you learn to drive a train. That product is so far from Trainz that N3V really has no competition at all.

Maybe N3V can realize that a strong simulator with a "railfan" interface and a "gamer" interface will keep them in business for a long time. By this I mean a proper simulator can also serve as a game when certain functions are limited, or dumbed down by the GUI interface to the customer. The current crop of customers continue to develop and improve on the core by way of routes, rules, assets, etc. The gamer crowd see portions of this "railfan" product but some of it is prescribed and cannot be changed by them. Thus for a gamer the proper(close to real) route can be driven with a proper set of signals, timetables, driven and AI engines and in a multiplayer setting. Under that is an improved Trainz/TANE simulator serving the needs of the more knowledge customer base.

This is a synergistic approach where the real railfan crowd improves the the product to match actual railroads. The gaming customers clamor for better graphics and enjoy the bits of reality that filter through for their enjoyment. We get a much better simulator and the gamers get a very accurate, but less complex product. Each can then improve their lot for the benefit of the other.

And, N3V taps both markets!!

September 19th, 2014, 07:01 AM
I did think that the latest free Railworks update didn't seem to be offering much in the nature of new features or fixing old faults.

September 19th, 2014, 08:26 AM
Nice breakdown. My impression of the update so far:


They speak of teaching how to drive a train properly, but do nothing about the arcade physics.

September 19th, 2014, 03:00 PM
That's another thing about railworks. all of the trains and routes, including 3rd party trains, are payware, or based of of payware models, OR use payware DLC. Trainz has a lot more freeware, sot that's, like, 5 points for Auran, zero for dovetail.

September 20th, 2014, 03:17 AM
And think what Dovetail may do to Microsoft flight simulator now they've got that!

September 20th, 2014, 09:37 AM
Companies MUST have a constant revenue revenue stream. They are like us and receive bills for utilities, salaries, rent,taxes periodically. They may introduce an exciting new product and get a bunch of cash. But in a few months when the market has been satisfied where is the cash-flow? Now if you can get hundreds of millions with a product release you might coast on that for a few years until the next product release. Larger companies do this successfully. Invest the big income and the interest will pay a lot of the bills.

N3V is not an Oracle. When Tane hits the street there will be an influx of money but not enough to pay the bills for a few years. So, they must sell addon products. Smart customers buy these offerings since they know that fixes and improvements are based on that income. Selling shirts and coffee mugs will not cut it.

Where the competition both fails and succeeds is the quality of the addon products. In my opinion their quality is low. Second the base product where you use these addon products is also sub-standard. So, how can they sell "not so good stuff" and make money. Simple -- marketing. Well, not entirely. They are quite fortunate to have a new customer base that has no knowledge of the base product so anything sold to them, as an addon asset, will look ok and work ok to an invisible standard. Now, you enter into the marketing since you know you customer's base expectations. Hype the stuff in the most expressive terms (most of them stupidly childish) and the cash flows in to pay the monthly expenses.

Hopefully, N3V does not take this path. If they offer a quality base SIMULATOR product and good quality addons I will buy some. If either criteria is not honored then the base purchase is my last.

September 20th, 2014, 10:16 AM
While we don't want to turn this thread into another long, drawn-out "N3V should do this this this" thread, let me just say that I firmly believe a good product will always draw in customers both old and new, one way or another.

September 20th, 2014, 10:41 AM
The DTG upgrade is a mess, no doubt about that. Most of the effort has gone into un-necessarily complicating the menu screen and making by default only DTG products or Steam supplied DLC are visible. You have to wonder whether they really want any input from the hobby level at all.

It certainly has done nothing to draw me back in from trying to put routes together in Surveyor and looking forward to T:ANE.

Let's just hope N3V don't plan to go down a similar road and are, even at this late stage, earnestly studying the new interface in TS2015 as an example how most definitely not to present a train sim product.

September 20th, 2014, 03:10 PM
While we don't want to turn this thread into another long, drawn-out "N3V should do this this this" thread, let me just say that I firmly believe a good product will always draw in customers both old and new, one way or another.

I apologize. I just thought that I had a decent idea that N3V might follow. If there is some other thread I overlapped can you give me a link. I do not want to make the same mistake again.

Bad reaction. Did not have second cup....

September 20th, 2014, 05:37 PM
You have nothing to apologize for, good for you to post such a topic. How else will the powers that be, be aware of any consumer content/discontent. But then again, this still does not mean, AURAN/N3V games might be taking any notice of anything we as customers/buyers would like in Trainz.


September 20th, 2014, 05:46 PM
In my opinon, Trainz is superior in every way: Good DLC (and not too much), a huge selection of freeware assets, good graphics, realistic physics, and a life that won't be ending in the near future.

September 20th, 2014, 10:22 PM
Hi Dick, no need to apologize. I wasn't referring to any thread in particular, just an observation of how discussions about T2 are often interrupted by "N3V do this, N3V do that" and then it goes off topic, such as in the T2 section. I've probably been guilty of this too. http://www.skype-emoticons.com/images/emoticon-00127-lipssealed.gif

Railworks is good for a laugh; Trainz is good for serious train-simming. It would be a shame if N3V took that away from us.

September 21st, 2014, 12:46 AM
In my opinon, Trainz is superior in every way: Good DLC (and not too much), a huge selection of freeware assets, good graphics, realistic physics, and a life that won't be ending in the near future.

I disagree on only one count. Graphics. RS Still takes the biscuit for graphics..... That said, Trainz doesn't have mysterious Exploding/Flying Trains whenever a fly lands on the brake lever, so I'll stick with Trainz.


September 21st, 2014, 01:15 AM
We have to keep in mind that there is always going to be an audience for this kind of game. Some people like to play with trains rather than try to actually operate them. I know we can do that too, but RW appears to make that a bit easier with the AI always pathed along with the pretty graphics. The thing is we want that and along with the goodies too, which Trainz provides us to a certain extent.... Now with T: ANE, we will now have the pretty graphics too. :)


September 21st, 2014, 02:04 AM
Dovetail must be making some cash if they can afford Sean Bean to do the voiceover for their trailer. Or perhaps Sean treated it as charitable work ;)

September 21st, 2014, 02:10 AM
The only thing I (and I'm sure others) would like to see at this stage from N3V is a bit more meat on the bones of T:ANE, plus an assurance it's still on target for December 2014 release. Some canny marketing and assuming Mr Hilliam & Co. deliver on the promises, they won't need Sean Bean or any other fancy gimmicks to make it a success story.

September 21st, 2014, 05:33 AM
Ground texture, round top trees, no drop/pickup of freight cars, AI locos hit cars, weird signals, etc.

If you look at the Evansville Checkrail route compared to a built-in one in the other thing, the difference is clear. Do some fiddling with different grasses and elevations the difference becomes no-contest. Toss in your own fixed shadow assets and it gets better. TS2009 was not as good visually. TS2012 is superior. Non-N3v people provided vegetation improvements to make the difference. They keep the old program in the lead.

My point is that we are way ahead visually in a proper route. Functionally there is no sense in even comparing them. Will TANE improve things - it should.


September 21st, 2014, 05:59 AM
I think the new Poteries Loop line route and sessions -see payware section, have taken Trainz graphics and operations to a completely new level.