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samplaire
August 21st, 2014, 03:45 AM
Hi,

I recently spotted a little change in TS2010 and TS12 behaviour which for most of you is a minor one but for me as a developer it is an obstacle under my feet:

When you have an X asset with say KUID2:xxx:yyy:1 installed and you install an update to it, say KUID2:xxx:yyy:2 no matter from where (desktop, DLS, even if it's your asset) and then you decide to delete the update for a reason you will end up with no such asset in the game itself (CMP of course will show you have an outdated version, not an obsolete one). This started to happen some weeks or months ago. Pottentialy it is nothing special but... If you are a developer and you for a reason try different versions of your assets in your Trainz it becomes an annoyance.

Please tell me why did you do that?

Dermmy
August 21st, 2014, 07:16 AM
I noticed that also (TS10). The only solution I have found is to make a copy of the obsolete version and increase the revision number to 'fool' the program. This is a purely local and entirely unsatisfactory solution - on a distributed route my :2 (or whatever) revision is different to the DLS :2 revsion. What truly annoys me is that this is yet another 'improvement' snuck into my install without my knowledge or consent....

trev999
August 21st, 2014, 07:45 AM
Hi Guys. I have just tried this in build 61388 and I disagree. I have a driver command asset that I created and am busy with an updated version. Before doing anything stupid I created a cdp of my new asset, and then deleted it. The previous version was still there and not showing as obsolete.

Perhaps it is different with scenery assets.

Anybody else have an opinion to share?

Trevor

Dermmy
August 21st, 2014, 07:56 AM
Sorry Trevor - I first noticed this when i inadvertantly installed a revision with a higher build number than my install. After deleting the un-usable version the installed revisions still showed obsolete, didn't appear in menus and didn't appear in-game. At first I thought this might be a glitch caused by the higher-than-usable build number, but I have since had the same experience when deleting other updates when for one reason or another I prefered an earlier version. Up to a few weeks ago when a higher revision was deleted the highest available revision became useable again but now it in effect becomes 'locked'.

samplaire
August 21st, 2014, 07:57 AM
Most probably this happens when an asset is located on DLS. Then, if you d/l it (or install from your collection on your HDD), install it and delete (leaving a lower kuid intact in CMP) - it will not show up in surveyor list.

pcas1986
August 21st, 2014, 09:13 AM
I noticed this yesterday. I had one of my loco assets in TS10 which was error free but I had updated it to TS12 standards and uploaded that version. When I deleted the working verson in TS10 it showed the icon that says an update is available but will not let me download it because it is a TS12 version. So I guess once the TS12 version is available then the TS10 version is no longer available for a TS10 installation. A bit sad really.

samplaire
August 21st, 2014, 09:33 AM
No, no. All my DLS assets are 2.9 build (TS2009+) so you conclusion is not true. Besides all of my attempts to reproduce the problem is ALWAYS in TS12 (latest build - 61388)

clam1952
August 21st, 2014, 09:49 AM
Not new I've come across it at least 12 months ago.
CM is hard coded, we haven't had any recent patches so more likely some kind of bug in 2010 and TS12 causing the problem and confusing the database, which to be honest doesn't take much!

Try a search of local and original folders, may find a copy of the update still in one or the other, I had great difficulty in getting rid of a bad speedtree update which although deleted was causing the original to vanish, until I found a copy of it in the hash folders, got rid of it from there, QDR and the original worked again, however I had to do a bit of config editing as well as I'd saved the route and it was looking for the updated kuid in the config, I just changed it back.

samplaire
August 21st, 2014, 09:55 AM
I'll look at it. Thank you!

pcas1986
August 21st, 2014, 06:29 PM
Malcolm,

I try to avoid mucking around with the database except for occasional searches for script examples. Presumably you are referring to ..\userdata\local?

clam1952
August 21st, 2014, 06:37 PM
Yes, actually Local and Original, you can use windows search on the kuid to find a particular item, goes without saying to be careful and it will need a QDR after removing anything, if you watch the list of stuff happening in CM when running the QDR you can see asset whatever has been removed come up.

ZecMurphy
August 21st, 2014, 06:44 PM
Good Morning All
First up, what build numbers are you running. This is the build number shown on the bottom right corner of the launcher screen.

Second, if you run a quick database repair, does this issue resolve itself?

If you load a route that uses the older revision of the asset, does the asset still appear on the route?

Where possible, if you delete all versions of the asset then install the desired revision, does the asset work correctly?

Regards

Dermmy
August 21st, 2014, 10:35 PM
First up, what build numbers are you running. This is the build number shown on the bottom right corner of the launcher screen.
TS10 44088


Second, if you run a quick database repair, does this issue resolve itself?
Sorry, but I never run a voluntary database repair - not after the very first one required an EDR to sort it out! Any DBR shouldn't be required to delete an asset. Anyway, short answer to your question - Unknown :)


If you load a route that uses the older revision of the asset, does the asset still appear on the route?
No - the asset remains stubornly obsolete in CM and doesn't appear in Surveyor menus OR on the route in either Surveyor or Driver.


Where possible, if you delete all versions of the asset then install the desired revision, does the asset work correctly?
Again - don't know. The quickest fix seemed to be to 'fool' the program by giving it the revision number it wanted, after which all is good on a purely local level, but as mentioned above potentialy problematical on a distributed route.

This issue is deffinitely 'new' - last few months. I am now extraordinaily careful when installing updates - in fact they go into a clean install before going into my working install just to make sure the update is worth having. 95% are, but there are still some 'orrible results from the community 'clean-up' process.....

BLACKWATCH
August 22nd, 2014, 04:36 AM
but there are still some 'orrible results from the community 'clean-up' process.....

There are some updates today, which when installed using CM 3.3, came up with RED error symbols.
So much for "improved asset checking" by the DLS upload system Zec. :hehe:

These are the ones in question ...............

Kuid2:21616:110256:4
Kuid2:21616:110258:4
Kuid2:21616:110259:4
Kuid2:21616:110260:4
Kuid2:21616:110327:3
Kuid2:21616:110340:2

......... I believe some of these may also be 'built-in' assets of TS2010.

pcas1986
August 22nd, 2014, 04:49 AM
Author #21616 isn't found in my install of TS10.

Edit: Unless those assets are in the content updates which are always broken for me.

BLACKWATCH
August 22nd, 2014, 04:56 AM
I'm on build 49933 but I also have the SnC pack installed within TS10, so could be from there, it definitly wouldn't let me delete the previous versions so I had to mark them disabled.

clam1952
August 22nd, 2014, 05:10 AM
Author #21616 isn't found in my install of TS10.

Edit: Unless those assets are in the content updates which are always broken for me.

Actually think you will find its kuid2:121616:etc author klapec. They seem to have gone from 2.5 to 2.9

The one I checked, kuid2:121616:1102564, can't afford to waste Data allowance, is Faulty in 2010 3.3 and Faulty in TS12 49922, but ok in 61388

Same error in the two fails: incorrect number of values for the tag 'repeat-delay',expected 2 values, found 1
Error checking appears to be missing this in 61388.

From Wiki



repeat-delay Type: Decimal Pair
Default: 0,0
Compulsory: Yes (3.4)
Desc: Time range (in seconds) to delay, after the sound finishes playing, before playing the sound again. To set a constant delay either set both these values the same or only provide one of them, otherwise a random value between them will be chosen. When used with a trigger event (see the 'trigger' tag), a positive value indicates that the sound should not repeat, but should wait until triggered again.

samplaire
August 22nd, 2014, 11:04 AM
Zec, Dermmy's TS build is the TS2010 one, mine is TS12 61388 and it's deffinitely the latest one.

It looks like it is not a new 'backdoor delivered' feature but rather a bug which we have to live with and perhaps the clam1952's suggestion is a solution.

p-dehnert
August 22nd, 2014, 11:48 AM
@BLACKWATCH
@clam1952
It's the broken error checking of the ContentManagers for TS2009 and TS2010, which always require 2 values. This could be fixed by editing the file container.txt in the folder <TrainzInstall>\bin\TETData\ .
This is the region to fix:

soundscript-element
{
icon soundscript-element
description "this is an actual soundscript"
menu-token "$ccp_soundscript-element_menu-name"
kind "Structure"
SubPossibilities
{
repeat-delay
{
kind value
compulsory 1
type vector2
}Change vector2 (marked red) to floatlist. (You could make a backup of the file, if you plan to do any patches)

Peter

BLACKWATCH
August 22nd, 2014, 12:07 PM
@BLACKWATCH
@clam1952
It's the broken error checking of the ContentManagers for TS2009 and TS2010, which always require 2 values. This could be fixed by editing the file container.txt in the folder <TrainzInstall>\bin\TETData\ .
This is the region to fix:

soundscript-element
{
icon soundscript-element
description "this is an actual soundscript"
menu-token "$ccp_soundscript-element_menu-name"
kind "Structure"
SubPossibilities
{
repeat-delay
{
kind value
compulsory 1
type vector2
}Change vector2 (marked red) to floatlist. (You could make a backup of the file, if you plan to do any patches)

Peter

Sorry, but it's not the users (paying customer)'s job to sort out these errors, with all the "current error checking" that means 2.9 will no longer be accepted, these errors should never have appeared on the DLS, it just go to show, that N3V will overlook these errors (because current checks don't filter them) if it suits, but will enforce them to make you upgrade your Trainz version.
The DLS will accept faulty assets at build 2.9 now, but will not accept perfect assets at build 2.9 after September. Hypocrites doesn't cover it.