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nicky9499
February 16th, 2014, 12:49 PM
Hi guys.

Ok so I'm testing some route dependencies in an effort to have the end user enjoy a flawless install. The drill is: TS12A export route only to TS12B, any non-DLS kuids are copied over to TS12A, these assets packed up and installed into TS12B. In an ideal world I should now get a perfect working route with no missing stuff. However on second try this was what I got when I put the list into TS12A:

Misc Ticket Machine 01,<kuid2:171456:100355:1>
Laying Ties,<kuid:138423:4000016>
Laying Ties2,<kuid:138423:4000017>
Construction Lights,<kuid:138423:400021>
Car 51,<kuid2:60850:29051:2>
Car 53,<kuid2:60850:29053:2>
TTR trackend 1 yellow,<kuid2:70337:24002:1>
Vehicle Truck 6,<kuid2:143205:39084:1>
Subestacion Electrica FS,<kuid2:53261:25055:2>
Concrete new 1t,<kuid:36713:38802>
Parking Square 3bay,<kuid2:171456:100112:1>
Parking Square 3x2bay,<kuid2:171456:100113:1>
roadsign chevron1,<kuid:523:23268>
40ft Grey Container,<kuid:61119:40104>
Bridge Pylon 1,<kuid:61119:38808>
Rusty 1 Track,<kuid:61119:38801>
Standard Guard Rail,<kuid:61119:38805>
Guard Rail End,<kuid:61119:38806>
Fence Guard Rail,<kuid2:60349:37103:1>
Yard-Speeder-Shed-20m-001,<kuid2:82412:5000037:1>
Station CP Medium Old,<kuid:9:23003>
Tside Switchtower LPC,<kuid:44797:28017>

These are all TS12 built-in assets. Both TS12A and TS12B are SP0 build 49922. Can someone tell me what is going on please?
Thank you.

Cheerio,
Nicholas

pware
February 16th, 2014, 04:51 PM
Grasping at straws here ... I take it that you have tried the usual remedies that include an asset database rebuild?

Ricke82
February 16th, 2014, 05:36 PM
Do you mean Built-in or available for download on the DLS? I checked the first two. The first one I show as not installed on my machine, but on the DLS. The second is installed, but shows Local rather than Built-in. Have you tried downloading them?

gremlin1812
February 16th, 2014, 06:28 PM
G'day Nicholas, I did a bit of looking using my TS12 build 49922 and the black pages DLS. The assets are all on the dls and yet in CM they do not show up????
Misc Ticket Machine 01,<kuid2:171456:100355:1>DLS
Laying Ties,<kuid:138423:4000016>DLS
Laying Ties2,<kuid:138423:4000017>DLS
Construction Lights,<kuid:138423:400021>DLS
Car 51,<kuid2:60850:29051:2>DLS <kuid2:60850:29051:1>BUILTIN
Car 53,<kuid2:60850:29053:2>DLS <kuid2:60850:29053:1>BUILTIN
TTR trackend 1 yellow,<kuid2:70337:24002:1>DLS <kuid:70337:24002>BUILTIN
Vehicle Truck 6,<kuid2:143205:39084:1>DLS <kuid:143205:39084>BUILTIN
Subestacion Electrica FS,<kuid2:53261:25055:2>DLS
Concrete new 1t,<kuid:36713:38802>??? <KUID:36713:38802>DLS
Parking Square 3bay,<kuid2:171456:100112:1>DLS
Parking Square 3x2bay,<kuid2:171456:100113:1>DLS
roadsign chevron1,<kuid:523:23268>DLS
40ft Grey Container,<kuid:61119:40104>DLS
Bridge Pylon 1,<kuid:61119:38808>DLS
Rusty 1 Track,<kuid:61119:38801>DLS
Standard Guard Rail,<kuid:61119:38805>DLS
Guard Rail End,<kuid:61119:38806>DLS
Fence Guard Rail,<kuid2:60349:37103:1>DLS
Yard-Speeder-Shed-20m-001,<kuid2:82412:5000037:1>DLS
Station CP Medium Old,<kuid:9:23003>DLS
Tside Switchtower LPC,<kuid:44797:28017>DLS

Hope this helps, I have found build 49922 a bit flaky with DLS assets.
Regards
Barrie


EDIT:- Just checked with build 61388 and it does find the DLS assets, as I said build 49922 a bit flaky, I had this problem once before but I forget how I fixed it (deleted something then did an EDR) which did fix it but seems to have returned.

Ricke82
February 16th, 2014, 07:24 PM
EDIT:- Just checked with build 61388 and it does find the DLS assets, as I said build 49922 a bit flaky, I had this problem once before but I forget how I fixed it (deleted something then did an EDR) which did fix it but seems to have returned.

I'll agree to that (the "flaky" part, I haven't checked in 3.7). I checked a few more, and the ones not installed show up for me in 3.6 (49922).

nicky9499
February 16th, 2014, 10:56 PM
Hi guys,

The assets I listed above are indeed not built-in at all, I mistook the "Local" icon as "built-in". They are actually sub-dependencies for the route. There are actually a handful of sub-sub dependencies which I had to dig through layers of "View Dependencies" and manually feed them through the download panel to get them off the DLS. Makes me wonder if anyone in the history of Trainz has ever downloaded a route and everything was actually present!

Anyway I'm left with a dependency of "YARN Exit Advance Name + Dest x2" by streadway <kuid:506208:100244> which apparently does not exist on my main TS12A installation...?

EDIT:
Lol same old problem. (http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?103788-Unknown-Location-lt-kuid-506208-100244-gt) Found it (http://dls.trainzportal.com/DLS_downloadasset.php?DownloadID=215531), with thanks to Peter.

nicky9499
February 17th, 2014, 10:55 AM
Just did a clean install of my route into TS12B with dls, cdp dependencies and that link up ^ there, now left with one unknown kuid:

Unknown Location: <kuid:-1:16270>

Which TS12A tells me is "Grid" by Auran.


...what? :eek:

BLACKWATCH
February 17th, 2014, 11:23 AM
I think the kuid is <kuid:-1:6270> & indeed the built-in grid, check that you haven't disabled it somehow.

nicky9499
February 17th, 2014, 12:16 PM
Hi Kev,

Nope they aren't disabled however there's this strange icon next to them. Mouseover tooltip doesn't provide any useful information, just says "built-in".

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w109/nicky9499/Capture_zps984c741a.png~original

-Nicholas

Ricke82
February 17th, 2014, 02:07 PM
The icon means there is some kind of restriction on what can be done with the asset. See Shane Turner's Guides for a complete explanation:
http://trainz.shaneturner.co.uk/tutorials/index.php/understanding-the-various-icons-in-search-results.

Did you use Download Helper to dl the missing assets? I've found that to be fairly painless and (usually) effective.

BLACKWATCH
February 17th, 2014, 04:03 PM
That icon is as Rick states, it means you can't clone or edit it, as it would break the sim. (afaik)

Have you tried doing a 'Quick Database Repair' ?
That can fix a lot of small glitches.

nicky9499
February 17th, 2014, 05:47 PM
Hi Rick and Kev,
I've dragged the route to download helper, everything goes smoothly and everything is present except for "Grid".

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w109/nicky9499/Capture_zps8be5692f.png~original

I've also done quick and extended database repairs to no avail.
I've tried exporting "Grid" and reimporting but get the "not permitted to commit changes" error.

The route still loads though just that this issue is putting a yellow icon next to my route and it's getting on my nerves.

-Nicholas

BLACKWATCH
February 17th, 2014, 07:55 PM
Nicky, the route is giving you an incorrect kuid, open the route for edit & edit the config. file ...................
Change every instance of kuid:-1:16270 ..... to read kuid:-1:6270, you have an extra 1 in the kuid which is causing the error.

Ricke82
February 17th, 2014, 08:55 PM
Nicky, the route is giving you an incorrect kuid, open the route for edit & edit the config. file ...................
Change every instance of kuid:-1:16270 ..... to read kuid:-1:6270, you have an extra 1 in the kuid which is causing the error.

No, I don't think it's an incorrect kuid (see my next post). Changing the kuid in the config will remove the error in CM but does not change the route. If you edit the route and save it, the kuid table is rebuilt from the route and the error will reappear.

EDIT: My apologies to BLACKWATCH. The last part of my statement is incorrect. If you remove the kuid of a missing asset from the kuid-table the error will not reappear, because the asset is not on the route. I think that this is essentially what the Delete Missing Assets menu option does in Surveyor. I was thinking of faulty assets which are not changed or removed by changing or removing their kuid in the table.

ANOTHER EDIT: One of these days I'm going to test things before (rather than after) I make a post. It turns out that I was correct the first time. Removing or changing the kuid in the config will remove the error in CM but, if you edit the route and save it, the kuid will reappear as a missing dependency. If you use Delete Missing Assets in Surveyor it will not reappear. I apologize for the misinformation and all the edits. This time I think I have it right.

Ricke82
February 17th, 2014, 09:10 PM
We have just crossed over into the Twilight Zone (in case you’re too young to remember the show, it means get ready for major weirdness). I have two (count them, two) Grids: Grid,<kuid:-1:6270> and Grid,<kuid:-1:16270>. The first one is a Built-in item, the second is not and shows that it was modified. I didn’t modify it, so that means it was imported rather than downloaded from the DLS. After saving it as a CDP, I deleted the second Grid (<kuid:-1:16270>) and then checked for missing assets. I found the following were missing <kuid:-1:16270>:

Cargill Grain Train,<kuid:373201:100574>
Midwest Grain & Terminal,<kuid:373201:100571>
Midwest Grain 3.0 R1,<kuid:175455:101246>
Northbound Freedom Express,<kuid:373201:100572>
Return to Freedom Yard,<kuid:373201:100573>

In addition, there were some sessions that I had made for the routes listed. I imported the CDP I had saved and they all showed as having no missing dependencies. I have my senior moments, but I think I detect a pattern here. Since both assets are a kuid:-1 and JointedRail is a 3rd Party Partner of N3V I would think that they might have a beta or unreleased update that was inadvertently used to create Midwest Grain.

Not wanting to embarrass myself by jumping to conclusions, I thought I’d check TS12 SP1 to see if the Grid had been updated for that version. Well, yes it had. Grid,<kuid:-1:16270>> had made Grid,<kuid:-1:6270> obsolete. The funny thing was that Grid,<kuid:-1:16270> still did not show as Built-in and still showed as modified. I repeated my earlier experiment and (yes indeed) Midwest Grain 3.0 R1 (the only version I have installed in SP1) showed up with the asset missing and unknown.

I’m on a roll now (if I do say so myself). I installed kuid:-1:16270 from the CDP and created a route. The 10m squares were outlined in blue (“Watson, the game is afoot!”). I saved the route and went back to CM and deleted kuid:-1:16270. Yes, the route I had created also showed up with that kuid missing. Leaving kuid:-1:16270 deleted I went out and opened the route I had created in Surveyor. The normal grid was back and all the assets (track and a couple of trees) were still there. I saved it and went back to CM thinking that kuid:-1:16270 would no longer show up as missing. Wrong! Well (excrement deleted)! I reinstalled kuid:-1:16270 (I’m getting good at this) and Midwest Grain and my route are no longer missing anything. I deleted it again just to make sure that it would still show up missing in the route I created and it did.

So the question is (fanfare), does the machine you created your route on (1) have a version of Midwest Grain installed (or did it ever have it installed) and (2) does CM on that machine show two versions of Grid (<kuid:-1:6270> as Obsolete and <kuid:-1:16270> as Local)?

norfolksouthern37
February 17th, 2014, 09:42 PM
the grid should not have obsoleted anything. if it did then that is your problem. it's obsolete table should be blank.

Ricke82
February 17th, 2014, 09:56 PM
the grid should not have obsoleted anything. if it did then that is your problem. it's obsolete table should be blank.

kuid <kuid:-1:16270>
kind "groundtexture"
rgb 40,40,40
asset-filename "Grid"
username-cz "Mr흫a"
username-hu "H୳"
username-ru "?????"
username-it "Griglia"
username-nl "Rooster"
username-es "Cuadr좵la"
username-fr "Grille"
username-pl "Siatka"
username-jp "????"
obsolete-table
{
0 <kuid:-1:6270>
}
kuid-table
{
}

EDIT: That's from MWG 3.0 in TS12 SP1 (the only one installed in that version). I probably chose to not overwrite in in 49922 where the obsolete table is blank.

nicky9499
February 17th, 2014, 10:51 PM
So the question is (fanfare), does the machine you created your route on (1) have a version of Midwest Grain installed (or did it ever have it installed) and (2) does CM on that machine show two versions of Grid (<kuid:-1:6270> as Obsolete and <kuid:-1:16270> as Local)?

Good lord you're right. I recently installed MWG3.0 on TS12A. Must've been pretty tired as well to not notice the extra "1" in the kuid. What would be my best course of action now? I don't mind using JR's blue grid if I may say so.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w109/nicky9499/Capture_zps155939e8.png~original

norfolksouthern37
February 18th, 2014, 12:41 AM
remove that entry from the obsolete table, it was a mistake and will spread like a virus... it was something that was not supposed to be included but accidentally got out.

Ricke82
February 18th, 2014, 05:11 AM
... What would be my best course of action now? ...

I don't really know. The best solution that occurs to me is for N3V to release 16270 as a built-in replacing 6270, but there may be reasons why that's not practical. I tried Delete Missing Assets in Surveyor, but it didn't seem to have any effect --16270 still showed up as missing. You might try BLACKWATCH's suggestion and change kuid-1:16270 to kuid-1:6270 in the config file and see what happens. The route on your second machine is a copy and that if that screws something up you can just delete it and reinstall. There are a whole bunch of folks who know a lot more about Trainz than I do. Maybe one of them will know what you should do -- I'm just guessing.

BLACKWATCH
February 18th, 2014, 05:29 AM
Nice work Rick, I wouldn't have found that, my TS12 SP1+HF4 is practically a virgin install & I haven't downloaded
any routes into it yet except the 'Settle & Carlisle' add-on.

Ricke82
February 18th, 2014, 06:39 AM
It was more luck than anything else. Like you I haven't installed much in SP1. If I'd had one of the earlier versions of MWG installed, it wouldn't have shown up and I probably never would have figured out what was going on.

nicky9499
February 18th, 2014, 12:01 PM
Hi guys,

This is what I did;
Cleaned out obsolete table from 16270.
Changed all instances of 16270 to 6270 in my route's config file.

After exporting and re-importing to TS12B, the route is now fully rid of unknown dependencies.


Justin,

If you haven't already done so, please fix your blue/purple grid and re-release MWG3.0 as soon as possible. As you have previously acknowledged, this error has the potential to go viral and all the user/victim has to do is to simply install MWG3.0. Any route saved after the installation of MWG3.0 will have this error. This is not a problem on my end as I only have a few beta testers. However, possibly hundreds (if not >1000) have downloaded or are going to download MWG3.0 which could turn this error into the next Ocemy built-in assets debacle.

Regards,
Nicholas

DennR
February 19th, 2014, 06:49 AM
Good Morning,

I have done the same in the RTM installed in b 61388 and also removed the item in the obsolete table of 16270 and I can confirm it fixes the route.

I will now do the same in b 58414 and check the result.

Cheers Bob