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3830
November 24th, 2006, 06:46 PM
Hey,
Recently i started in Gmax (had 2 or 3 goes in making things) and i wanted to redo the Ffestiniog line. So I thought that i should make the stations and various things. (massive task). So I thought i should post this picture of Penrhyn station that i'm making for the Ffestiniog. Also, does anyone know "Widowmaker" and his email address? And also could you tell some tips, and how do you make a roof?

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7889/updatelw0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Cheers, Daniel:)

Sparky123456
November 24th, 2006, 07:11 PM
A roof...make a box, make width 3 segments, move the outer edges at both ends down, then you have a basic roof. Alternatively use planes.

Um Penrhyn station has alot more to it...if I remember correctly, the two doors you have there..one is a notice board and the other is a notice board, I'm sure thats right, I stayed there in summer. I can check for you anyway.

I haven't actually got any pictures of Penrhyn station, I've got some of the crossing, I can get one of the new (and amzingly brilliant :p) Rhiw Goch signal box, various bits of Harbour station and Boston Lodge, and I would be able to get a few of Blaenau complete with its new red box. (A container being used as a shop)

If any of this would be of use email me, chrisclark14[at]btinternet[dot]com

Cheers

Chris

ZapperJet
November 24th, 2006, 07:18 PM
Looks great! Can't wait to see this :D

Edit: I'll be willing to help with any part of this if you wish. I am the Ffestiniog nutcase you know :p

3830
November 24th, 2006, 09:16 PM
Thanks guys.

@ Both of you,
I need as much help as i can get;). And as many references as i can get. (yeah, i know theres more to it) So if you guys (or anyone else) can help, it would make this route come along. If i can get Widomaker's permission (so i don't have to start again) i will release some screenies soon.

Cheers, Daniel:)

ZapperJet
November 24th, 2006, 09:47 PM
3830,

Some good resources are:

www.festrail.co.uk (http://www.festrail.co.uk)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ffestiniog_Railway
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/3

Good Luck! :)

ZapperJet
November 24th, 2006, 10:48 PM
Thanks guys.


...If i can get Widomaker's permission (so i don't have to start again)...


Widomaker did a good job on the Ffestiniog. However, it is somewhat outdated now. I think it would be an apt time to start anew. With real gradients, realistic stations, and most important: realistic terrain. I've got the route building technique for this sort of layout almost down pat. And I would love to do one, with help of course.

If you would like to start a coop project, e-mail me :)

~Zapper~

3830
November 24th, 2006, 11:19 PM
You've got mail ZapperJet:D

ZapperJet
November 24th, 2006, 11:35 PM
You've got mail ZapperJet:D

Likewise Daniel :)

3830
November 25th, 2006, 04:20 AM
Likewise Daniel :)

Likewise Zapper (for the 2nd time:D)

Sparky123456
November 25th, 2006, 07:08 AM
Realistic terrain for the FR would be near impossible without extensive use of splines and the like for cliff faces and sheer drops that surround the line. I am willing to help, email me if you can think of anything you need help with. I have alot of photos, or I can try to find some. There's loads out there.

Cheers

Chris

benk87
November 25th, 2006, 08:53 AM
ooh, this outta be good! Widowmaker's was a good attempt, but I look forward to seeing a new updated version.

benk87

fourjays5000
November 25th, 2006, 09:13 AM
Nice work on that station. :)

I'm currently working on a "Welsh Narrow Gauge" pack of various items that you may be interested in if you are planning on making an accurate Ffestiniog route.

Currently got track for 1ft 11in gauge (Ffestiniog, and some others use it) in clean, rusty, snow and snow/rusty versions. I might make some for the other gauges too. I'm right at this minute working on some dry stone embankments, and once their done I'm going to be doing a few bridges and tunnels. I also plan to make a few station buildings too - based of the Ffestiniog ones, but designed to be "modular" so you can build your own stations with them. I'm also on the verge of making some ground textures, cliffs, waterfalls and rivers suited for Snowdonia, but am not entirely sure whether there would be much interest.

What exactly is in the pack isn't for certain yet, as I want to use it to make my Christmas Route, so it will solely depend on how much I can get done within the next week/week and a half (to give me another week to actually make the route).

I'm currently working on it all day, everyday so it will almost definitely have all the track/bridges/tunnels done by then. Whatever isn't done by then, will be put in a second pack for release after Christmas. My eventual aim is to have a pack I can use for a large ficticious (but based on existing lines) Welsh route, with several narrow guage routes, linked by a mainline route (ala Blaenau Ffestiniog).

Due to the amount of time I've spent on it, I'll probably be releasing it as payware though. I'd like to do it all for free, but when I'm making Trainz items, I'm not working on my php projects. Depending on how much I do, I may release some of the basic items (track for example) as freeware, and do the rest as payware.

widowmaker
November 25th, 2006, 12:39 PM
I've really NO objections to anybody using my route of the Ffestiniog. If you think that it will help then feel free to use all or parts of it.:) Just keep us informed when you are about to release it.

3830
November 25th, 2006, 05:13 PM
Thanks everyone for their comments.

@fourjays5000. This pack sounds really good. I am looking forward to it, and it will defiantly help in the Ffestiniog line. Those dry stone embankments are exactly what we need for the line. Although we were trying to aim for a freeware route. But i'm looking forward to the stuff you release anyway.

@Sparky123456. Thanks for that. I think you can help. I've noticed that your quite good in Gmax. You can defiantly help with the references. But with Gmax is where we really need your help.

Cheers, Daniel:)

Sparky123456
November 25th, 2006, 06:24 PM
Daniel, you should have a pm.

Cheers
Chris

3830
November 25th, 2006, 08:52 PM
I now have a roof on, and some window frames. (i'm not sure yet how to make glass or make a window look convincing.) But heres a two shots to update this.

Front
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/638/update2hk4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Back (i'm not sure what the back looks like)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1416/updategf6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Cheers, Daniel:)

ZapperJet
November 25th, 2006, 10:35 PM
Daniel,

Window frames aren't necessary, as they only increase the polygon count of things. Most items, such as doors, windows, et cetera, are done in the texture. The less polys, the better.

On another note about polygons, you might want to take those pillars out, and use the draw tool to draw new ones, and turning down the interpolation to about 6 to 12 sides.

If you need any help send the model my way! :)

3830
November 25th, 2006, 10:39 PM
cheers, will do

Daniel

kevmt
November 27th, 2006, 05:30 PM
As someone who has spent the last five years working on numerous virtual Ffestiniog models (for the Ffestiniog Rly Co.) and a MSTS version of the route, then I'd like to say that I certainly wish you the best of luck with it. It's not an easy route to build!!

One word of advice I would give is that I would not try and make the whole route in one go, possibly do, say, Porthmaddog to Minfford first. This will give you a chance to practice your skills and also let you release something in a reasonable timescale.

Hopefully, the route will be released as freeware. I've certainly given a large amount of my own time (when I could have been doing more profitable things!!) making the stock available. It would be nice to think that the route would follow the same ethos.

Best wishes,
Kevin

3830
November 29th, 2006, 03:56 AM
@Kevin, I think we will do sections at a time. And your engines and rolling stock are outstanding. How many double engines did you make?

Cheers, Daniel.

P.S., Alot has changed on the building since i last posted;)

redline41190
November 29th, 2006, 07:24 AM
unless you have found the DEMs for the region terrain might be very hard to replicate...

ZapperJet
November 29th, 2006, 07:58 AM
Hopefully, the route will be released as freeware. I've certainly given a large amount of my own time (when I could have been doing more profitable things!!) making the stock available. It would be nice to think that the route would follow the same ethos.



Kevin,

The route will be released as freeware if it ever comes to be. I have no intention of ever releasing payware, as I do not want people to go through the hassle that I have when I buy payware.

We do appreciate your work Kevin. Without it there would be no thought of this layout!

Right now Daniel and I are working on TRS04/TRS06 compatibility issues. I may have to try to reinstall that infernal contraption called 06!

~Zapper~

3830
November 30th, 2006, 01:16 AM
Hey,
I second and repeat what Zapper said. There is no current (good) DEMs for the Ffestiniog line, so we also have that issue of "how to make the route" and not also mentioning our capabillity issues.

I've been working some more on the station, and heres and update. (Not sure how to go about it from here because lack of resources).
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3866/clipboard01ib2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Cheers, Daniel

ZapperJet
November 30th, 2006, 07:52 AM
Looks good Daniel.

Out of curiosity, what is the current polygon count? To find out, go to the very last tab on the menu (the hammer). There should be a polygon counter in the list. Give us the over all polygon count.

redline41190
November 30th, 2006, 09:42 AM
howd you get your Gmax window to look like that? mine has three weird windows that I cant create anything in...

ZapperJet
November 30th, 2006, 02:57 PM
howd you get your Gmax window to look like that? mine has three weird windows that I cant create anything in...

You either have the Trainz GamePak window, or the plain Gmax window. I find the GamePak window much easier :)

3830
November 30th, 2006, 03:16 PM
@ZappeeJet, at the moment its 6724 polys.

@redline41190, in Gmax, press "W", thats how i change from being 4 squares to just one.
Cheers, Daniel

Sparky123456
November 30th, 2006, 03:26 PM
Oooh, although it looks quite good, 6720 is rather high for a poly count for a building...very high in fact....

Go around all the cylinders, reduce the amount of sides to about 8 or 9 on all of them. Go around all the boxes and make sure that segments is reduced to 1 on all but the ones you have used for the main building nd the roof.

Cheers

Chris

ZapperJet
November 30th, 2006, 05:05 PM
Continuing on what Chris said, we can probably take those designs on the sides of the roof and use an alpha map instead of taking up polygons for them.

kevmt
December 1st, 2006, 04:25 PM
To give you a poly count guide, the MSTS version of Penrhyn station (including platform and out buildings) was 311.

Kevin

3830
December 1st, 2006, 04:52 PM
311 polys? Woa!!!!!!!!!!! How am i gonna beat that??????????

Sparky123456
December 1st, 2006, 05:24 PM
I think it had been done as one object, so it is probably made from planes, with any hidden faces deleted, each plane 1 segment high and wide, then phototextured.

It is highly possible to get such a low poly count on a building.

Am I right Kev?

Cheers

Chris

fourjays5000
December 1st, 2006, 06:24 PM
Here are some tips that I have been told and learnt myself over time.

Anything you can't see, or are highly unlikely to see, should be removed. This is everything from the end of cylinders, bottom of boxes, and sides you will never see (hidden by another shape, or would only be viewed from an angle impossible to get in-game; eg: under the roof). Remember, if you have a 6 sided cylinder, there are going to be 6 polys on the top and bottom (assuming it is set to 1 cap segment), that you more than likely don't need (bottom almost definitely).

Don't do an interior; use textures to give the impression of. Leave details such as the bits around the edge of the roof, to textures with alpha channels.

Make cylinders/spheres/cones as low as possible without losing the effect. This depends on the size; the spires on the end and chimney pots could probably go as low as 5 or 6 sides. 8 would be the absolute max. The stanchions would be higher than the spies/chimneys, but still don't need to go high.

Window frames, door frames and other details should be done with textures.

Ensure that all boxes, planes and other shapes only have as many segments as required. For example, the planes forming the roof would only need 1 segment for length and width. The only time you need segments is when you are going to manipulate the shape somehow; eg: using a plane to make an arch.

Take a look at other peoples models. In some cases, a house is nothing more than a 4 sided box (top and bottom removed) with two planes on top for the roof. The rest is done using textures.

3830
December 4th, 2006, 03:08 AM
Well good news fourjays5000, the poly count is at 1364. And i'm still not finished reducing polys. So i'll have and update when i've nearly finished the poly reduction.
Cheers, Daniel:D

fourjays5000
December 4th, 2006, 05:48 AM
That's quite a reduction from 6000+. Good work. :)

3830
December 6th, 2006, 01:08 AM
Cheers, I now have to add more to Penrhyn that i didn't know existed, so the polys will go up again. Anyway, does anyone have any decent pics that show Penrhyn in its whole. For the mean time, i will show some screenies of the Ffestiniog line i'm working on.

3830
December 6th, 2006, 01:09 AM
Cheers, I now have to add more to Penrhyn that i didn't know existed, so the polys will go up again. Anyway, does anyone have any decent pics that show Penrhyn in its whole. Now also i need a gradient map. My gravity trains don't work so i think theres something wrong with the gradients.

For the mean time, i will show some screenies of the Ffestiniog line i'm working on.

3830
December 6th, 2006, 08:36 AM
This shot is looking in the direction of Portmadog at Penrhyn level crossing site. (extremely not finished)
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2932/screen006pk9.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

The last shot is still looking the same way but closer to the station site.
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/2963/screen009mz9.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

I'll post some more once the route starts to take shape.
Cheers, Daniel:)

3830
January 26th, 2007, 11:26 PM
Anyway, just an update. I think i might redo this project again, proparly though. If anyone has any shots or knows where they are of the whole building, it would be appreciated if you could send them to me.

cheers, Daniel

Sparky123456
January 27th, 2007, 01:51 PM
I seriously doubt you'll get any of the whole building, but if you do a quick search on http://fotopic.net for Penrhyn, then look in the photos section, you may find a few that could be helpful. :)

Cheers

Chris

PVincent342
January 27th, 2007, 02:04 PM
Where can you get gmax

titaniclover
January 27th, 2007, 02:37 PM
at turbosquid.com

3830
January 27th, 2007, 09:45 PM
Hey,
I've started work on the station at the present moment the poly count is 292. And now i've realised what you can do with planes and lines.
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q76/3830/7.jpg

cheers, Daniel

redline41190
January 29th, 2007, 01:48 PM
looking good! :D
I cant wait for the final product! and maybe there are other things that people are making for the FR. We could use another locomotive or two...
*coughs* Mountianeer, Lilla, Gelert *cough*:p

-Jeremy

tmz06003
November 19th, 2011, 01:53 PM
I've really NO objections to anybody using my route of the Ffestiniog. If you think that it will help then feel free to use all or parts of it.:) Just keep us informed when you are about to release it.

Nawlins has recently uploaded an update of this route completed by the two of us. It should be available shortly on the DLS. I'll start a separate thread to announce it and show some screenshots.