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philip114
May 2nd, 2013, 11:50 AM
Hi, I'm trying to locate anyone still working on the EBT route in trainz. I'm interested in helping out. While I'm new to content creation for trainz, my profession is 3d modeling and I've done quite a bit of game mods in the past. I've got fully licensed 3ds max as well as a TON of other 3d asset creation tools to work with. I started working with the DEM terrain for the route and started laying down baseboards and laying out track for the route. Just thought I'd see if anyone was still working on this.

Thanks!
Phil

you can email me at: phildlight at gmail dot com

bendorsey
May 2nd, 2013, 11:56 AM
I'm not a route builder but I have made a few items for the EBT.

Ben

Sek_Hakuna
May 2nd, 2013, 02:26 PM
Huge discussion here http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?101129-Master-Map-maker-needed

cascaderailroad
May 2nd, 2013, 03:08 PM
Yes ... We all would like to hear from Bob Pearson, who I understand was highly sucessful creating an EBT RR route.

We also would like to hear from all others who have attempted his route, or have an EBT RR route as a WIP.

Long live the East Broad Top RR !

rwk
May 2nd, 2013, 08:06 PM
There's a DEM on DLS. That would be a start. There's also some buildings available, Orbisonia Station, the roundhouse, etc. Are you interested in modeling the present day EBT as a tourist railroad, with the Rockhill trolley museum next door (formerly known as Shade Gap Electric Railway) or the railroad as a coal hauler 1965 or earlier? I tried to build the tourist version and I had all track in at least several miles worth, plus the trolley line, but I lost the file. All I have is the blank map now. Also, bendorsey and Ben Neal have excursion cars, covered and uncovered, and EBT Mike #18 I believe. There might be some regular EBT coaches, as well. And there's an EBT hopper.

geophil
May 3rd, 2013, 03:39 AM
Hi, I'm trying to locate anyone still working on the EBT route in trainz. ... I started working with the DEM terrain for the route and started laying down baseboards and laying out track for the route.Are you aware of the historical USGS topo maps, showing the EBT trackage in its heyday? (See the other thread: http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?101129-Master-Map-maker-needed)

cascaderailroad
May 3rd, 2013, 09:10 AM
I rarely even go to Yahoo E-Mail anymore, as it takes so long to log in, and to get to my E-Mail ... I use Skype and the Forum PM.

Anyone with EBT RR knowlege, or Trainz experiance, please contact me here via the forum PM

philip114
May 3rd, 2013, 04:33 PM
Hi Guys. Well, I don't think I could've really used Rob's map (terrain) to start since placing 1k boards and trying to trace them was frustrating. So last night I bought transDEM and built the route myself. (sorry, North is south in the screenshot). Sorry the screens are too big?

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_ZaMgSW3UwI/UYQqpbZZbDI/AAAAAAAAE5c/MckNxogvHsA/w1024-h768/philip114_20130503_0000.jpg

I started laying track out the shade gap branch and as you can see from the screen filling in textures and scenery. I also started building the office and have it about half textured. Have to fix the windows as I decided to upres the textures after I started.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-B9fn804HLgw/UYQqmOXjd_I/AAAAAAAAE5U/Z8jBAfyFFyQ/w1516-h821/stonehouse1.jpg

I need to try to find some better photos around Orbisonia. I've got a bunch I took and I've found some but not a lot of good reference to use for texturing.

As I model the EBT in hon3, I've amassed a ton of reference material. That and I live about 2 hours away from the line and have been down several times for photos. I'm planning on starting in Robertsdale (odd I know) and working toward orbisonia. Reason is that's the module I'm building and so I have all the plans for the buildings in robertsdale and have a good handle on the terrain etc. up there.

Here's the embarrassing thing. Last night after I got all the dem stuff w/ the google earth textures applied to the terrain setup I was so excited that I went through and laid track on the mainline from robertsdale to mt union. When I got to mt union I discovered when I exported the dem data I cropped off the very northern most part of mt union. :'( So I trashed the route and started over.

It's tough to get the detail at an area large enough to lay the rail in the yard in orbisonia so I'm laying out the buildings and was considering building it as a separate asset and then merging it into the route? I dunno about that. Worst case I'll build the buildings and use them to help layout the yards.

I'll have to look through that thread ye all posted. As you might have noticed I'm pretty quick with this stuff (it's my job after all) so I'll try to get the entire map banged out in a usable form fairly quickly. Ideally I'd like to use interactive industries etc. and try to get as much of the outlying mines etc. in place as possible. That will obviously take some time.

Cheers,
Phil

cascaderailroad
May 3rd, 2013, 04:37 PM
Have you done the Sidling Hill and Wrays Hill tunnels ? That is where I am starting my version of the route.

I think the Kimmel switch was just beyond the west portal of Sidling Hill tunnel, and that started the double tracked Coles siding, which ended just east of Coles curve ?

I have all the gradients and track charts ... If you want to work togther on the route ?

philip114
May 3rd, 2013, 05:26 PM
No, I just did the section between wrays hill and sideling hill for fun. Here's a good collection of vintage maps of the route: http://railsandtrails.com/EBT/index.html I used this link: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=204661335735556483333.0004ab6bb2b09341f3ba0 Which has the route path in google maps. When you view the map, on the left is a little icon for google earth. I opened the route in GE and then exported all the images of the route at 2km resolution and georeferenced them in transdem. That terrain model that's available in DS has a bunch of ridges at quad joints in it and it doesn't seem clean. I used brand new arcgrid data for the route I'm building on.

Now I'm using the book: East Broad Top by lee Rainey and Frank Kyper plus those pdf links etc. to detail the route. The book has some pretty good track layouts at Mt union and most of the important locations.

I'd be happy to share everything I do. My plan was to simply upload everything once I feel it's accurate enough to use. Once I get all the buildings in orbisonia and the furnace done I'll move on to robertsdale. Mt Union is kind of sketchy and I guess it depends on the era what get's put up there. Seems that's one of the big question marks. What to model etc.

ebtrr
May 3rd, 2013, 06:34 PM
Have you done the Sidling Hill and Wrays Hill tunnels ? That is where I am starting my version of the route.

I think the Kimmel switch was just beyond the west portal of Sidling Hill tunnel, and that started the double tracked Coles siding, which ended just east of Coles curve ?

I have all the gradients and track charts ... If you want to work togther on the route ?

The Kimmel siding and Coles siding are separate, with at least a half mile of single track between them.

cascaderailroad
May 3rd, 2013, 06:44 PM
So where exactly are these sidings located ?
Coles
Kimmel

I would suspect that Kimmel switch was just outside the west portal of Sidling Hill, as a steam loco picked that switch after exiting the tunnel, and derailed there.

Also how many cars were in the typical EBT RR consist in the Wrays/Coles/Sidling area ? How long were the 2 sidings ?

philip114
May 3rd, 2013, 07:31 PM
You can see the coles branch on this image:

http://railsandtrails.com/EBT/EBT_v03-01_ColesValleyBr_IndexMap-100g.jpg

just to the "map north" of the coles val br is kimmel. See if this link works: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=204661335735556483333.0004ab6bb2b09341f3ba0 It should take you right to the coles branch. Then this branch (rocky ridge branch) https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=204661335735556483333.0004ab6bb2b09341f3ba0 is just on the west face of wrays hill. The wye (kimmel switch?) is pretty easy to see on the google map.

If those links don't work, click on the names of the branches on the left side of the google map and it will zoom the map to that branch. You're looking at the rocky ridge line which shows the wye I think you're referencing.

Oh, missed the part about the engine picking the points on the wye. That was 12 on it's maiden voyage!

There's a photo in the book of one of the mikes w/ a string of 21 "modern" steel hoppers and a caboose taken on coles curve in 1913. I doubt they operated trains that long up there but I guess when things were booming they might have? Probably more realistically in the 10 to 15 range?

I just read this too and it might answer your question: "Also in 1916 the EBT acquired the first of a new design of mikado. No. 16 weighed a bit over 80 tons, and had slightly larger cylinders fed by a super heated boiler. this boosted tractive effort by about 11 percent over Nos. 14 and 15. In terms of tonnage, the new engine was rated at 22 steel hoppers coming down the mountain as compared to [18] and 15 respectively for the lighter class...". So I guess it depends on the engines working the route on that day. That would dictate the number of hoppers in the string. Also, after 1916, the Coles line was used for lumber quite a bit so there would have probably been a lot of mixed trains up there around that time.

philip114
May 4th, 2013, 09:39 AM
I spent a little time last night screwing around over in the wrays/sideling hill tunnel area. I'll need to build the portals for those tunnels based on reference images and I'll retexture the tunnel system I used. I might build a new one so it's more accurate. Tunnels are a PITA!

This is my map overview of the area:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-A7lM-ixRJhs/UYUckhUNPCI/AAAAAAAAE6A/B2VVgjPDuG0/w1024-h768/philip114_20130504_0000.jpg

This is the western portal of sideling hill:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-AND6EjAFiDM/UYUclZ52ZOI/AAAAAAAAE6M/v2z3y0WjJAk/w1024-h768/philip114_20130504_0001.jpg

This one shows the Wye I think you were talking about on the west side of wrays hill tunnel. You can also see the coles line south of the wye. That's a curvy route that winds around the mountain. Due to the lack of info on all the trestles they had up there in the early days, I'm doing this based on the later infill of those recessions.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0O1Brs9Jztw/UYUclBEjf_I/AAAAAAAAE6I/uxiGDGWCX8g/w1024-h768/philip114_20130504_0002.jpg

While it's kind of hard to see, the cyan lines are the simple route I used in trans dem to get the dem route output. The actual route lines are red and green. Red is the main and green are branches. when you're down at track laying level the red and green lines are very easy to see.

cascaderailroad
May 5th, 2013, 10:19 AM
I spent like two days on a short section East tunnel portal of Wrays ... to East tunnel portal of Sideling Hill.

http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/Tour/shtunnel.html

I put in a switch just after the Sidling Hill West tunnel portal, and extended that double track all the way down to Coles East curve (whether there was 1, or 2 sidings is unknown to me, but it looks good to me).

Will post screenshots soon.

PBY357
May 5th, 2013, 11:11 AM
Great! Nice job so far, now we just need a complete roster of EBT engines for the route.

cascaderailroad
May 5th, 2013, 01:07 PM
I spy ... wit' my wittel' eye ... a curved turnout

http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/Tour/shtunnel.html

Elevation: 1210'
Gradient: 1.90%

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001-47_zps98f4480d.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_001-47_zps98f4480d.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002-37_zps07e23a71.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_002-37_zps07e23a71.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_004-25_zps02205bbd.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_004-25_zps02205bbd.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001-47_zps4046844e.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_001-47_zps4046844e.jpg.html)

Coles curve to Wrays Hill tunnel

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002-37_zpscde8bb26.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_002-37_zpscde8bb26.jpg.html)

What do you notice in these screenshots ?
No more blinding Aqua HOG #67 texture ... It's fired !
SG track (will be replaced ASAP)

This tunnel was bored between winter 1873 and September 1874 by B. J. McGrann and Company of Lancaster. It passes under Morland's Gap, a low point on Sideling Hill, for which it took its original name. This route was favored over the alternative route through Sideling Hill Gap, which would have had to climb the steep southeast side of Broad Top Mountain. Sideling Hill, which runs half way through Pennsylvania, was the single largest physical obstacle to the line. At this point it marks the change in watershed between Three Springs Creek and Roaring Run (flows to Sideling Hill Creek then Aughwick Creek). The tunnel headers met on September 12, 1874. The tunnel as built was 836' long and is curved at either end which was a frequent operational hazard. After the purchase of the first mikado #12 in 1911, she derailed her pilot truck in the tunnel on her maiden trip up the mountain. The truck then caught on the Kimmel switch and derailed the entire loco. Wind blowing through the tunnel had caused water leaking from the roof to freeze up on the track. As a result the tunnel was equipped with large wooden doors on the north portal and watchman shanty's at either end for men to man the doors.

The north shanty was a batten board structure on a concrete pad and is seen as a red building with white trim. It was equipped with a stove connected to a masonry chimney and had an asphalt shingle roof. A smaller lean to was added to the north side of the building. The controller for the power door was located on the tell tale post just outside the door of the shanty. The south shanty was a batten board structure recovered with simulated brick asphalt siding, like that on Coles Tank and Rockhill Sand House. The structure had dark painted trim and sat on four wood piles. It has a stove connected to a metal chimney. Both ends of the tunnel were equipped with tell-tales, which consisted of metal bars hanging from a wire strung across the track about a hundred yards from the portal. The tell-tales would warn brakemen atop the cars of the coming tunnel and also hit any over height cars or loads.

The north portal was later rebuilt with concrete, shortening the tunnel to 830'. The north portal was likely rebuilt about 1919 after the same was done at Wrays Hill after a collapse there. It was likely at this rebuild that the north portal received a roll up door. It would have been just two years after the same treatment was given to the Rockhill Roundhouse. At some point a motorized door was added a few feet outside the original manual roll up door. In 1948 the doors were automated to save money on the tunnel watchmen. The motorized door was connected to remote actuators on poles a few hundred feet from either portal. A ring hung on a chain from either actuator. The ring before the tunnel was pulled by the head end crew to open the door and the ring after the tunnel by the caboose crew to close it. Two converted traffic lights on poles just outside either portal showed the status of the door. The lights had three green lenses, and during the winter when the doors were in use all three lights would show green when the doors were open. The signal at the north portal was mounted on the engineer side telltale post, which was also a telegraph pole and the pole with the manual door controller. The south traffic light was mounted on the engineers side telltale post. (EBT 166) On at least one occasion the head end crew pulled both rings at one of the tunnels, causing the door to come down on the caboose and be torn off. As a result of this sort of incident the practice of automating the doors was ended by 1952 in favor of a watchman.

At the end of operations the inner manual door was left closed and the motorized door was left open. The tunnel is still open, but has suffered many rockfalls, especially at the south end. The close manual door rusted to pieces over the years. About 2000, the outer motorized door and its wood frame toppled outward from the portal onto the track. The manual door later fell directly down onto the track. Both shanty's, actuators poles and signal poles are gone. The north shanty is reported to have been burned, but the foundation is still visible. The south shanty is also gone, though the four posts on which it rested can still be found. Both portals can be accessed by walking the line from the PA 994 EBT crossing on the respective side of Sideling Hill. DO NOT ENTER THE TUNNEL. It contains debris, standing water and various unfriendly wildlife.

philip114
May 5th, 2013, 06:10 PM
Nice! I decided to fall back to my original plan to work on Robertsdale toward orbisonia. Since I cut the tunnels in roughly and connected all the sections between with track I can at least run the route to see how it goes.

So here's some work from a little bit ago on Robertsdale. I did Tipple #1 and the station. I'll probably do the engine house next and the rest of the mine buildings. I'll have to add mine #3 and #5's tipple etc. down there too.

I've got to tone down the saturation on the textures for the tipple. That was a tough model to texture due to the size and number of smaller parts. It seems to perform well in game though.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_Gtj9_M1uto/UYbkpd8WVRI/AAAAAAAAE7M/YGz0KB-harI/w1024-h768/philip114_20130505_0000.jpg

Here's the real tipple. Probably extends further to the west than I have it.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-E6_n_unEJGY/UYblqs6XA3I/AAAAAAAAE70/TKMndHUN0DA/w642-h425/rcs_54.jpg


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4qOwlof2pYE/UYbkqIxn8aI/AAAAAAAAE7c/caFEMDshxBs/w1024-h768/philip114_20130505_0001.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-GDFJGe-fxY4/UYbkqLJRKvI/AAAAAAAAE7Y/C66BkbbZNEc/w1024-h768/philip114_20130505_0002.jpg

Need to do these little bridges too:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-0pEjMRlZDpY/UYblrG_MdUI/AAAAAAAAE8A/6LzWTIgScFI/w900-h600/09818.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ipmHFx18pHc/UYblqyuZtKI/AAAAAAAAE8E/wXLMkOTZJzw/w900-h600/08205.jpg

I've got to retexture that track. Too low res for me. lol Gotta build the

I'll get into the engines. I mostly built #12 already but it's way too high poly for a game. I've got the original baldwin plans for #12 and the plans from mrr etc. for 14, 15, 16, 17 & 18. I'd like to do the engines as high poly as I can and go all out with normal maps etc.

For the layout, I'm trying to get it done. Period. You could spend years building every nook and cranny of the line, but at the end of the day, if it never sees the light of day and you can't use it for anything because you're fussing over every square inch of land, well, it's kind of pointless. IMHO.

I might switch off and do the portals for the tunnels and get them to you cascade. If you want em...

cascaderailroad
May 5th, 2013, 06:44 PM
Yeah ... Those tunnels are going to be hard to match. If you disable any "snap to grid" tunnels, which also disables the dighole, will revert back to normal for anyone who downloads the route, and all those hundereds of "big block head" tunnels are totally worthless anyway.

These EBT tunnels are all one of a kind, rustic, hand chiseled rock work, mouse hole in the granite/shale.

When I lay a tunnel, I end up using 3 assets ... a track running separately through the digholes ... then I add a tunnel spline that is under the static/spline tab, and is not located under the track tab at all ... then I add a static building tunnel portal.

These tunnels are sort of like mine tunnels, with shored up timbering all the length.

Quite intregueing this EBT route is !

BTW: there was a 3rd tunnel that was bored, but was never used, as no track was ever extended down to the proposed PA Southern route

ebtrr
May 6th, 2013, 11:06 AM
So where exactly are these sidings located ?
Coles
Kimmel

I would suspect that Kimmel switch was just outside the west portal of Sidling Hill, as a steam loco picked that switch after exiting the tunnel, and derailed there.

Also how many cars were in the typical EBT RR consist in the Wrays/Coles/Sidling area ? How long were the 2 sidings ?

Coles siding ends just east of the crossing of Coles Valley Road over the railroad. It is about the eastern based to Coles Curve. I would guess from memory it is about 1/8 mile long.
Kimmel siding starts just north of the PA 994 crossing on the west side of Sideling Hill. It is not far from the portal but maybe 1/8 mile north of it. Siding is about the same length as Coles. Both sidings had a short tie loading spur, Kimmel at the south (RR north) end and Coles at the north (RR south) end.

#12 did not pick the switch per-se, she derailed her pilot axle on ice in the tunnel, then when it hit the switch, the rest derailed. That was in 1911 on her maiden run up the mountain.

Trains were usually the same length across the line as the grades in the valleys were similar to the climb up the mountain. IIRC, #12 handled 16 hoppers, #14 and #15 18 hoppers and #16, #17 and #18 22 hoppers, plus a caboose or combine on the end. Not positive on the numbers but it is close to that. Boxcars, flatcars and truck-swapped standard gauge cars led the trail just behind the loco if they were present. Most trains were hoppers only. The miners train would have a coach and a combine on the end for commuting miners.

ebtrr
May 6th, 2013, 11:31 AM
Yeah ... Those tunnels are going to be hard to match. If you disable any "snap to grid" tunnels, which also disables the dighole, will revert back to normal for anyone who downloads the route, and all those hundereds of "big block head" tunnels are totally worthless anyway.

These EBT tunnels are all one of a kind, rustic, hand chiseled rock work, mouse hole in the granite/shale.

When I lay a tunnel, I end up using 3 assets ... a track running separately through the digholes ... then I add a tunnel spline that is under the static/spline tab, and is not located under the track tab at all ... then I add a static building tunnel portal.

These tunnels are sort of like mine tunnels, with shored up timbering all the length.

Quite intregueing this EBT route is !

BTW: there was a 3rd tunnel that was bored, but was never used, as no track was ever extended down to the proposed PA Southern route

Three of the four EBT tunnel portals are poured concrete - one arched, one square and one hexagonal. The fourth was natural rock. None are chiseled stone. Al three concrete portals were covered by roll-up doors since about 1918 or so.

There was no third EBT tunnel. The one you are thinking of was the South Pennsylvania Ralroad Tuscarora Tunnel. The EBT Shade Gap branch was graded all the way to the South Penn and would joined the SP grade at the west portal of that tunnel. The tunnel had not been bored through when JP Morgan brokered a peace between the PRR and the NYC that halted construction on the SP. Today it is one of the two bores of the Turnpike Tuscarora Tunnel.

ebtrr
May 6th, 2013, 11:39 AM
FYI, I'm not a regular here but I am happy to provide any details I can. I peruse the Internet for EBT discussions disceminating information about it. http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/ is my EBT web site.

I'm not much into sims (prefer to work on the prototype EBT.) A friend did the entire EBT route on MS Train Simulator and had many buildings done - then he bought a house and had no more time to finish it. I had even gotten a copy of MSTS to try it out.

Please forgive the newbie question, but is Trainz Simulator 12 all that is needed to utilize this route when it is done?

cascaderailroad
May 6th, 2013, 02:25 PM
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001-47_zps5c7deaff.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_001-47_zps5c7deaff.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002-37_zps963242c3.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_002-37_zps963242c3.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_003-30_zps34be027c.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_003-30_zps34be027c.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_006-16_zps98e61018.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_006-16_zps98e61018.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_005-19_zps7c061410.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_005-19_zps7c061410.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_004-25_zps4abbf64b.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_004-25_zps4abbf64b.jpg.html)

I just love making a curved switch !

philip114
May 6th, 2013, 04:06 PM
FYI, I'm not a regular here but I am happy to provide any details I can. I peruse the Internet for EBT discussions disceminating information about it. http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/ is my EBT web site.

I'm not much into sims (prefer to work on the prototype EBT.) A friend did the entire EBT route on MS Train Simulator and had many buildings done - then he bought a house and had no more time to finish it. I had even gotten a copy of MSTS to try it out.

Please forgive the newbie question, but is Trainz Simulator 12 all that is needed to utilize this route when it is done?


Hi Chris! Virtual EBT aside, a big THANKS! for the website! You don't know how many times I've been on your site over the last few years. Hope it's ok I posted those few pics a few posts back. I'm building the route in trainz ts2012 so that's all you'll need. For the tunnels, I used a generic NG tunnel w/ rather crude portals just to get track connected across the hills. What I thought about doing was just modeling the portals to be more accurate and then just placing them over the portals that come w/ the NG tunnel liner etc. Then stick some bushes around them to blend them in ;) LOL. The Trainz "purists" if they exist will be pissed!

I did a little work on tipple #5 @ Robertsdale today. Then I got distracted by trying to make a high res ng track and wasted WAY too much time with some stupid errors. For some reason the export plugin was renaming the textures so the texture files were giving errors. At least that's what it seemed like. Made testing a nightmare. That and I was struggling w/ the lod distance. I was also experimenting with a different workflow for building creation. I've been just dumping the models out as 3ds files and then importing them into photoshop and texturing the models all in PS. It get's a bit sluggish though as PS creates a few gigs worth of temp files while you're editing a 3d model. Now I'm just texturing in max, baking the texture and then adding some "weathering" shading in PS. Seems to be a quicker creation process.

Is there any kind of resource other than the wiki w/ info on the config settings etc. for track? A developer manual would be handy. Can one purchase any additional development tools from Auran/N3V? I might be interested in some tools if it speeds up my process. I've been trying to deconstruct existing assets from DS, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of native 2012 or later stuff in there and best I can tell a lot of it is missing some critical stuff and is only working due to patches. I've been casually searching for developer info but it sure doesn't seem to be out in the open.

philip114
May 6th, 2013, 10:21 PM
Messing around with tunnels. This was more to understand how tunnels are made in the engine than to actually come away with good models. I'll replace the meshes/textures on these with better stuff later. Just needed to figure out the tunnel settings for the config files and how the attachment points are setup. I've still got to mess with the positioning. The tunnel system would be fine for a tunnel with similar portals at each end. Not so much with different ones. I might end up using the dig hole thing after all and put a liner spline between the points and then use static meshes for the portals. That seems to be the way most people are doing it?

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-N9yicZaEw1o/UYhyIVxjkGI/AAAAAAAAFHU/g_B7wkpkRac/w1024-h768/philip114_20130506_0000.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-01blPpV-pfM/UYhyIv_lYAI/AAAAAAAAFHY/oRt3LPA-cng/w1024-h768/philip114_20130506_0001.jpg

I did these as a spline w/ the terminators on the ends. Kinda clunky. This is all in a "Sandbox" route I have setup for testing all the models. It's like an EBT in a box type deal at this point! LOL

Just had to figure out the tunnel thing. I'll add the roll up doors on the final meshes.

cascaderailroad
May 7th, 2013, 06:46 AM
I think the locos smoke stack just about cleared short tunnel ceiling ... as the trains service was, there was not every day service ... smoke filled, teeny tiny mouseholes were acceptable, in the "Way Back" days of yesteryear !

Also think wing walls were kinda' short, were very accute angled, and the narrow tunnel side wall clearance almost sideswiped trains.

philip114
May 7th, 2013, 08:28 AM
Yep, I'm going to remodel those. Took me a while to figure out how to even get the meshs working. I just modeled those portals in a few minutes to have 2 different meshes to work with. They're obviously wrong. There's a lot of undocumented stuff that makes working with these things take longer than it should. For example, it took me a while to figure out that the liner had to be in the mesh-table as "default" in order to work correctly. I only discovered that by "reverse engineering" existing assets. Also, the placement points and how they work. There's info on the track attachment tag but it doesn't actually give any specifics about where the points should be and how the meshes interact with them. Lots of trial and error testing to even get this to work. For the actual mesh I'll use the reference images of the tunnels to model w/ so the proportions are right. Not high on my priority list. Just had to get a working tunnel model so I understood how to do the final one correctly.

cascaderailroad
May 7th, 2013, 08:50 AM
Passenger service was infrequent on the line, except for a sparse worker coach tagged onto a work train, or coal/timber/ore consists. Towns such as Kimmel and Coles at one time had dozens of houses on farms ... now there is but one sole house at Coles.

bigboy4014
May 7th, 2013, 10:12 AM
all great photo's can't wait to see who finishes first, but in the end i'm going to have both on my game

philip114
May 7th, 2013, 10:37 AM
Passenger service was infrequent on the line, except for a sparse worker coach tagged onto a work train, or coal/timber/ore consists. Towns such as Kimmel and Coles at one time had dozens of houses on farms ... now there is but one sole house at Coles.

Except for the mail run. quote: "It was also the only train whose equipment and crew were stationed at Robertsdale. It was outfitted with a coach and a combine and left woodvale at 7:40 am as No. 1 and ran through to Mt union arriving in mid morning. There is was turned and sent back as No. 2 reaching Woodvale shortly after noon." Also: "The miners' train with conductor Seward "Spready" Ott in charge, left Orbisonia about 5:45 am as No. 8. It carried miners' coaches and a string of empty hoppers and picked up communters along the line."

So yes, not much passenger service, but at least twice a day during the week you would see No. 1 or No. 2 coming through the tunnels w/ a coach and combine in tow.

To be honest, I just grabbed the first equipment I saw in the train list when I was messing around with those tunnels.

bigboy4014
May 7th, 2013, 11:11 AM
"I'll get into the engines. I mostly built #12 already but it's way too high poly for a game. I've got the original baldwin plans for #12 and the plans from mrr etc. for 14, 15, 16, 17 & 18. I'd like to do the engines as high poly as I can and go all out with normal maps etc."

think i can get these when your done, i already have 17, just need the rest, we'll also need your buildings for this project if you don't mind

philip114
May 7th, 2013, 11:57 AM
Yep. I'll be uploading everything as I finish them. I'm almost done w/ the station at Robertsdale. I started the engine house (loco enginehouse not the mine enginehouse) today and should wrap that one up later tonight. Once I get the route done I'll upload the whole thing. I don't know if anyone would want it w/ just the track? I don't want to upload a bunch of half finished stuff.

I reskinned 16, 17 & 18 based off the existing 17 model. I probably wont start on 12, 14 and 15 until the line is done. Wasn't someone working on (finished?) the M1? I'd also like to at least reskin the coaches that are out there. I want to make a flat, boxcar and tank car too. All those will be after the route though.

cascaderailroad
May 7th, 2013, 03:20 PM
36" = 0.944 m

Is there any quality, high detailed 3ft track on the DLS, or elsewhere ?

The DLS is down at the moment.

PBY357
May 7th, 2013, 03:23 PM
It was acutely designed for this route. http://trainzforge.weebly.com/track--trackside.html

cascaderailroad
May 8th, 2013, 10:13 AM
1000m, the equivelent of 0.944m (= @ 36") track on the DLS, by: Joxemai #148561: Via estrecha tm 1000 mm 2 mts <kuid:148561:38004>

4m track spacing
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001-47_zps8e191f10.jpg

3.5m track spacing
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002-37_zps53676713.jpg

3m track spacing
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001-47_zps913ab617.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_001-47_zps913ab617.jpg.html)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8115/8629577904_ee1b2d4303_z.jpg

http://www.spikesys.com/Bin/EBT/rcs_20.jpg

bigboy4014
May 8th, 2013, 10:32 AM
Yep. I'll be uploading everything as I finish them. I'm almost done w/ the station at Robertsdale. I started the engine house (loco enginehouse not the mine enginehouse) today and should wrap that one up later tonight. Once I get the route done I'll upload the whole thing. I don't know if anyone would want it w/ just the track? I don't want to upload a bunch of half finished stuff.

I reskinned 16, 17 & 18 based off the existing 17 model. I probably wont start on 12, 14 and 15 until the line is done. Wasn't someone working on (finished?) the M1? I'd also like to at least reskin the coaches that are out there. I want to make a flat, boxcar and tank car too. All those will be after the route though.
think i can get these loco's off you?

bigboy4014
May 8th, 2013, 10:49 AM
actually sek_hakuna originally i was hoping to talk to you about this route cause i got your durango freeware and was very impressed with the work you did on it

philip114
May 8th, 2013, 04:51 PM
It was acutely designed for this route. http://trainzforge.weebly.com/track--trackside.html

Thanks for sharing that! I finished laying track on the entire layout and just replaced it all with that track. Pretty nice track. I've got to work on the layout at Mt Union. Anyone know of any good maps of the area? The book is pretty good but it's very large scale.

Not much new on buildings for me. I got carried away filling in the areas between major points of interest with scenery yesterday and today. Mainly because I was test running the route from end to end and wanted something better than low res google earth images to look at. Nice work on the coles station cascade! That coles branch is fun as far as terrain goes eh? ;)

normhart
May 8th, 2013, 05:35 PM
You might want to look at pencil42's 36" 30lb and 35lb track, I rather like it and it is on the dls.

philip114
May 9th, 2013, 08:26 AM
Mt Union:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kKVEjlTyfi8/UYuie4zF5wI/AAAAAAAAFH0/QstWCOqlYBY/w1024-h768-no/philip114_20130509_0000.jpg

Laying out the yards up here brings up the question of how to handle all the dual gauge track in the yards. I found a dual gauge track w/ standard and 3 foot track but of course it won't match the rest of the NG track. Also, the dual gauge on DS is a 4 rail dual gauge while the yards in Mt union were 3 rail dual gauge. I can't imagine all the dual gauge turnouts in the yard actually solving correctly in the game. Anyone have any experience with how the NG equipment handles the dual gauge track? I think I'll at least throw in the PRR main to the extent I imported DEM data for the area which is actually quite big. Enough to mess around with switching up there. Might keep the yards all NG w/ standard transfers here and there?

Still have a lot to do in this area alone obviously and then there's General Refractories and of course the Harbison-Walker Refractories further West. I think from the photos and track layouts I have of the area I'll just model Mt union as a bit of a "conglomerate" of the industries and trackage that existed up there. Even though a lot of it changed over the years.

EDIT> Just noticed the "MAN6 Dual Gauge Track" which looks like 3 rail. Says it's 2 track bridge spline made to look and "operate" like dual. I'll have to play around with that one.

ebtrr
May 9th, 2013, 12:46 PM
Thanks for sharing that! I finished laying track on the entire layout and just replaced it all with that track. Pretty nice track. I've got to work on the layout at Mt Union. Anyone know of any good maps of the area? The book is pretty good but it's very large scale.

http://spikesys.com/Bin/EBT/Maps/mucars.gif
It is based on the map in the book but updated based on on-site inspection. Shows what track is narrow, dual and standard. Some of the switches are noted with a T if they are a blade switch and a "lollypop" of they are a stub switch.

cascaderailroad
May 9th, 2013, 03:36 PM
1000m, the equivelent of 0.944m (= @ 36") track on the DLS, by: Joxemai #148561: Via estrecha tm 1000 mm 2 mts <kuid:148561:38004>


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001-47_zpsb7dc0238.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_001-47_zpsb7dc0238.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001-47_zps0cd3796d.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_001-47_zps0cd3796d.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002-37_zpsbabc9dda.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_002-37_zpsbabc9dda.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_003-30_zps2789ce91.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_003-30_zps2789ce91.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_004-25_zps5bc45821.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_004-25_zps5bc45821.jpg.html)

bigboy4014
May 9th, 2013, 03:40 PM
Thanks for sharing that! I finished laying track on the entire layout and just replaced it all with that track. Pretty nice track. I've got to work on the layout at Mt Union. Anyone know of any good maps of the area? The book is pretty good but it's very large scale.

Not much new on buildings for me. I got carried away filling in the areas between major points of interest with scenery yesterday and today. Mainly because I was test running the route from end to end and wanted something better than low res google earth images to look at. Nice work on the coles station cascade! That coles branch is fun as far as terrain goes eh? ;)

http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/Tour/muyard.html
map of mount union yard setup

philip114
May 9th, 2013, 04:14 PM
http://spikesys.com/Bin/EBT/Maps/mucars.gif
It is based on the map in the book but updated based on on-site inspection. Shows what track is narrow, dual and standard. Some of the switches are noted with a T if they are a blade switch and a "lollypop" of they are a stub switch.

That's helpful and quite interesting. A few pieces there that aren't in the book. This well help immensely. Thanks!

simulatortrain
May 9th, 2013, 06:19 PM
There's also another EBT hopper: http://hostthenpost.com/uploads/1fee4131faf55939fa50ba0a9d549c7d.jpg

philip114
May 10th, 2013, 07:18 AM
There's also another EBT hopper: http://hostthenpost.com/uploads/1fee4131faf55939fa50ba0a9d549c7d.jpg


That's a very nice hopper model! Those trucks are a nice upgrade too. I have a very high res 3d model of the 27/28 caboose that I made for injection molds that never happened. I should use that to normal map a low res version for the game. Any chance of getting those trucks? Is the hopper payware? Available anywhere?

simulatortrain
May 10th, 2013, 08:49 AM
Thank you. It's not available anywhere yet, I have some things I'd like to go back and add to it. The trucks, maybe. I had been planning on making a big pack of EBT items available for sale where 100% of the profits go to the EBT, however I'm not sure who that money would best go to...

philip114
May 10th, 2013, 09:34 AM
I got ya. I was thinking of the same thing, but honestly, I don't know either. This is kind of why I started this thread. I didn't want to redo work that's already been done. I was planning on doing a hopper too, but seeing yours it's probably better than I could do. Are you still planning on working on the EBT stuff?

philip114
May 10th, 2013, 09:38 AM
Here's the caboose I did. Need to do a low res version.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KHnm-QwJWws/UY0F4tCXJJI/AAAAAAAAFJM/L0J2r1hD31g/w640-h480-no/materials.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-EVYJoS_XRCw/UY0F40xc1iI/AAAAAAAAFJI/DBfPrKHwUDc/w640-h480-no/materials2.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jiOqI7ZBWP8/UY0F42Q7e-I/AAAAAAAAFJg/j9c8zLVGrsw/w640-h480-no/render1.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-raShfV6y22U/UY0F53MYq5I/AAAAAAAAFJQ/bKrpkbFomR0/w640-h480-no/render2.jpg

ebtrr
May 10th, 2013, 06:35 PM
Thank you. It's not available anywhere yet, I have some things I'd like to go back and add to it. The trucks, maybe. I had been planning on making a big pack of EBT items available for sale where 100% of the profits go to the EBT, however I'm not sure who that money would best go to...

May I suggest the Friends of the East Broad Top Restoration Fund:

http://www.febt.org/donate.html#b

Friends of the East Broad Top
Restoration Fund Treasurer
12-513 Shady Avenue
Pittsburgh PA 15206

The funds go toward tools and supplies for the work in Rockhill and Robertsdale, and specific contractor work such as on EBT Combine #16 and the restored buildings at Robertsdale.

simulatortrain
May 11th, 2013, 03:49 PM
That caboose is looking good, what is the poly count of that version? It doesn't look too terrible.

I have considered donations to FEBT, and this will most likely be the choice if something does get done, but I just wish it could be something that would go directly towards ensuring the site's future.

cascaderailroad
May 11th, 2013, 05:54 PM
Someone told me that donations, and funds, that were supposed to go to the EBT RR, were diverted away from the railroad, and never even used for the EBT RR at all.

ebtrr
May 11th, 2013, 06:53 PM
Someone told me that donations, and funds, that were supposed to go to the EBT RR, were diverted away from the railroad, and never even used for the EBT RR at all.

I do know the funds donated to the EBTPA "Ticket to Preservation" program DID get used in its entirety to partially fund the professional bard restores that performed structural repairs on the EBT Blacksmith Shop. The rest was paud for by Joe Kovalchick (from his own pocket, I believe, rather than from the company.) Beyond that I do admit that The EBTPA has very little transparency, in either finances or management. That is part of the reason I suggested the FEBT restoration fund. It goes to many projects to prevent the EBT from disappearing physically. Anyway the EBTPA seems to focus on getting government grants rather than grass roots fundraising.

philip114
May 11th, 2013, 07:59 PM
That high poly is 33,978 polys including the trucks. Probably not terrible and if I just re-did the body and used the modeled board joints to render out a normal map it would knock it down to usable size. That's kind of what I planned.

flyboy559
May 11th, 2013, 08:33 PM
Excuse me while I pick my jaw up off the floor after seeing that caboose

philip114
May 17th, 2013, 02:01 PM
alright, I got sidetracked again. Took a while to figure out the correct placement etc for everything to get the caboose to work properly. I searched everywhere and it was only through trial and error that I discovered that the order/position of the attachment points matters. So in the positive "Y" should be a.limfront then a.bog0 then a.bog1 then a.limback. Arghhhh. Seriously, is there a guide for this somewhere I'm missing or is this stuff a big secret?

Still need to do the couplers and I'm still just a tiny bit off vertically on the trucks. Oh, and the wheels aren't animated. I exported them w/ the animation but I'm assuming I need to include the .kin in the config. Just need to figure out where. Wasn't a major issue so I didn't pursue that very much. Need to finish the texture too I guess.

Anywho, here's the caboose in game. I guess I should make the numbers replaceable by the operator so you could do 27 or 28? Also should do a red version. Too busy w/ work to spend a ton of time on this.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-kSjh4H9ijek/UZZ-BF4k6QI/AAAAAAAAFMc/VJxfmg339tc/w1024-h768-no/philip114_20130517_0000.jpg

philip114
May 18th, 2013, 11:00 AM
Rockhill #9 tipple at Alvan

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-C6akogbSEJU/UZelf9E8gQI/AAAAAAAAFNI/V08zwbzQddI/w1024-h768-no/philip114_20130518_0001.jpg

cascaderailroad
May 19th, 2013, 09:16 PM
I don't know how you lay gradients ... but I have a trackchart ... and if I start at Pogue and lay a 2.6% grade, by the time I get halfway to Sidling Hill tunnel, the track is 200' in the air.

I have all the gradients in, and they look true to the DEM heights, now.

I drove from Orbisonia to Wrays tunnel with the jetsled, at 786mph ( 1min 40 sec ) !

ebtrr
May 19th, 2013, 09:27 PM
I don't know how you lay gradients ... but I have a trackchart ... and if I start at Pogue and lay a 2.6% grade, by the time I get halfway to Sidling Hill tunnel, the track is 200' in the air.

I have all the gradients in, and they look true to the DEM heights, now.

I drove from Orbisonia to Wrays tunnel with the jetsled, at 786mph ( 1min 40 sec ) !

The grade from Pogue to Saltillo is pretty gentle, and it gets fairly steep from just beyond Saltillo all the way to Robertsdale. I'm actually wrighting this from Saltillo, but that is not very helpful as you can't look at the track and tell the gradient.

philip114
May 20th, 2013, 08:57 PM
Yeah, ebtrr is right (of course!). I think it drops slightly in a few places too between those points? Bottom line is the route doesn't follow a gradient line from point a to point b. While it shows it that way on a gradient chart, I think in reality there was a lot more "up and down" in between. Think of the ruling grade in the chart as an average between the points.

While somewhat off topic, I just got back from southern Virginia and I saw some crazy trackage down there on some branch lines off the NW. Track w/ crazy grades up and down and all over the place! A lot of these grade changes between + and - occured over half a mile or less. I don't think a track chart would reflect that. It reminded me that especially back when the ebt was laid and especially on some of the branch lines like coles, that the trackage was probably pretty brutal. With the terrain through some of those areas it had to have done some acrobatics through the hills and hollows. Not a pretty, smooth mainline like the PRR etc al. I think they also redid a lot of the grades through the years which may be important depending one when the grade chart you're referencing was created.

I'm laying the route over the DEM using the track layout and known right of ways as the guide and then going in and checking the grades to get it to be fairly correct. In that shot of Alvan you can see the track was on a bit of a steep grade off to the right. I've corrected that since then. In a lot of cases when you adjust the spline point heights and smooth the grade you can see it makes sense with the terrain and is probably darn near what the railroad did. I don't think there's any way to make the route 100% accurate. I think as long as it's probable or close it's good. Unless you want to hire someone to go and survey all the row's and build it spot on. Of course even then it's likely to be slightly off from what it was 50 years ago.

cascaderailroad
May 21st, 2013, 06:03 AM
Looking for a good 36" NG caboose, Bendorsey has a few, and an EBT #2 ... are there any other cabeese ?

I have the 2 EBT types of hoppers, and a small selection of other 36" NG rolling stock.

Anyone know of any other 3' gauge assets ?

cascaderailroad
June 1st, 2013, 12:08 AM
I add no filler, or fluff to a route ... like, trees, grass, textures .... Until the terrain is perfected !

Meticulous trackwork, curves, turnouts, and gradients, come first

EBT Orbisonia
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002-37_zps5f6cb4ae.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_002-37_zps5f6cb4ae.jpg.html)

Turntable is too small to hande EBT RR locos
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001-47_zpsad1e4478.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_001-47_zpsad1e4478.jpg.html)

Track type will be changed out at a later date
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/EBTHorizontal_zps3b0af3d0.gif (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/EBTHorizontal_zps3b0af3d0.gif.html)

normhart
June 1st, 2013, 12:34 AM
You might find some fun stuff here

http://www.trainzone.co.nz/ng.htm

or here

http://www.steammachine.com/slugsmasher/ss2_downloads_main.htm (http://www.steammachine.com/slugsmasher/ss2_downloads_main.htm)

:D

cascaderailroad
June 2nd, 2013, 04:11 AM
I just can't wait to swap out this track for another 36", or 1000mm NG track ... I just hatez it !

I finished the south end of the Orbisonia yard also, and will post screenshots later.

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001-47_zps52f53f13.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_001-47_zps52f53f13.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_003-30_zpsd209ff0b.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_003-30_zpsd209ff0b.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002-37_zps0954e2d1.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_002-37_zps0954e2d1.jpg.html)

wreeder
June 2nd, 2013, 11:09 AM
Here is the last printed Content Creation Guide before the wiki. It will give you a good foundation on how to get models into Trainz but you will have to reference the wiki to get up to TS12 standards.

http://www.animalomnibus.com/trainz/CCGTC.zip

William

cascaderailroad
June 4th, 2013, 06:44 AM
What makes Bendorseys EBT turntable disjoin a track, when the turntable aligns to the track ... then the loco derails ?

Bill69
June 4th, 2013, 07:32 AM
Hi CCRR,

There are some other turntables that do that if you are not very carefull. The trick is to make the terrain all around the turntable flat, then make sure all your track spline points that join the turntable are at exactly the same height as the turntable spline points before you join them.

Cheers,
Bill69

cascaderailroad
June 5th, 2013, 07:36 AM
That seemed to do the trick ... I disjoined the track, and made them all the same heights ... and rejoined ... still a derailment.

I deleted the track ... laid a new track ... appled the height .... joined the track ... and it now works.

Thank you !

Screenshots will follow soon

bendorsey
June 5th, 2013, 10:44 AM
If that TT & RH is the one I made for the EBT I can make a version with a larger diameter TT - just let me know what diameter you want.

cascaderailroad
June 5th, 2013, 11:46 AM
It turns out that it does indeed handle the EBT #17 ... so it is A-OK in my book.

I probably will re-skin the bricks, and gravel a bit darker though ... it is missing the roll up doors ... but no biggie ... Thanks !

bendorsey
June 5th, 2013, 12:57 PM
OK - (whew - I'm off the hook). Here is something weird - all of a sudden the enter key doesn't take me to the next line and spell check is always on. Any ideas as to what key or keys I accidently hit?

bigboy4014
June 5th, 2013, 01:25 PM
It turns out that it does indeed handle the EBT #17 ... so it is A-OK in my book.

I probably will re-skin the bricks, and gravel a bit darker though ... it is missing the roll up doors ... but no biggie ... Thanks !

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/EBT_Sideling_Hill_Tunnel.jpg/800px-EBT_Sideling_Hill_Tunnel.jpg
it's amazing the someone took the time to light this tunnel before takign the pic

cascaderailroad
June 5th, 2013, 01:42 PM
The tunnels are unsafe ... never enter them ... besides risking a collapse, all kinds of ferocious wildlife may be inside, bear, badger, timber ratter, copperhead, skunk (aka: woods kitties).

These tunnels had just enough ceiling height to clear the locomotive smoke stack by mere inches.

The old tunnel in Galitzin Pa was cinder blocked shut, to keep explorers and wildlife out.

The Staple Bend tunnel (the 1st RR tunnel in the US) near Mineral Point Pa, is now a rails to trails bycycle path, you can ride through that dark tunnel, bring along a headlamp.
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002-37_zps9fc94300.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_002-37_zps9fc94300.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001-47_zpsdc87e561.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_001-47_zpsdc87e561.jpg.html)

I apologize to Bendorsey ... The roundhouse roll up doors are there ... they are just hard to see

bigboy4014
June 5th, 2013, 05:28 PM
wouldn't stop me in the least....if i get there i'm going in for as long as i can walk, i'll just don my midieval armor and my sword and my 12 gauge and say f*** you to the wildlife muahahahahahha ;)

cascaderailroad
June 9th, 2013, 02:24 AM
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001-47_zpsd6d7c533.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_001-47_zpsd6d7c533.jpg.html)http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002-37_zps28321477.jpg

(http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_002-37_zps28321477.jpg.html)http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/EBT1_zps215a2acd.gif (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/EBT1_zps215a2acd.gif.html)http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/3/7/0/7370.1310048955.jpg

bigboy4014
July 5th, 2013, 03:31 PM
I add no filler, or fluff to a route ... like, trees, grass, textures .... Until the terrain is perfected !

Meticulous trackwork, curves, turnouts, and gradients, come first

EBT Orbisonia


you know what cascade i'm enjoying the fact ha your taking your time making sure everything is perfects, and it brings joy to me to see someone who takes as much pride in this line as i do, but also this has at times been an extremely frustrating thing for me, due the the waiting suspence of the next CDP file on my computer although i'm telling you we need to lay down some textures on the whole line before you send it to me cause i swear the endless miles of grey drives me insane!

cascaderailroad
July 5th, 2013, 03:52 PM
You can slather down a wide radius swath (scale set to minimum) of Forest1 or Forest_1 and get rid of the gray baseboards ... all my routes have gray basesboards ... until they have finished trackwork

RPearson
July 8th, 2013, 01:42 PM
Mt Union:

Laying out the yards up here brings up the question of how to handle all the dual gauge track in the yards. I found a dual gauge track w/ standard and 3 foot track but of course it won't match the rest of the NG track. Also, the dual gauge on DS is a 4 rail dual gauge while the yards in Mt union were 3 rail dual gauge. I can't imagine all the dual gauge turnouts in the yard actually solving correctly in the game. Anyone have any experience with how the NG equipment handles the dual gauge track? I think I'll at least throw in the PRR main to the extent I imported DEM data for the area which is actually quite big. Enough to mess around with switching up there. Might keep the yards all NG w/ standard transfers here and there?

Still have a lot to do in this area alone obviously and then there's General Refractories and of course the Harbison-Walker Refractories further West. I think from the photos and track layouts I have of the area I'll just model Mt union as a bit of a "conglomerate" of the industries and trackage that existed up there. Even though a lot of it changed over the years.

EDIT> Just noticed the "MAN6 Dual Gauge Track" which looks like 3 rail. Says it's 2 track bridge spline made to look and "operate" like dual. I'll have to play around with that one.

There's a couple of ways to make dualgauge track. You can use "bridge track" with the bridge modeling all 3 rails and then using invisible track for the actual track the train follows. But all the problems with bridges are inherent with that method. I typically use the one model for the 3 rail track and ballast and set it up like a std spline track as if it were just the std gage track. Then lay a separate invisible track representing the ng centerline at 10.25" off the cl of the std gage. Since I'm an odd ball of sorts - I like to generate trk files seperately from cad dwgs - it easy to do once I make the dwgs. Manual placement in Trainz is difficult. In 2012 it got even more difficult since it's very difficult to select one of spline 2 points that are less than 1m apart. Fixed track may have some possibilities but I haven't worked with it yet. Typically it's good for turnouts on level ground or if rolled for a grade along one axis. If you go to extremes you could model the track at a specific location with different grades in both divergent tracks.

EBT 2 std gauge 0-6-0 switchers handled both sg and ng strings of cars (only 1 gage at a time). I don't know how we can do that in Trainz. They used two couplers on the pilot and tender beam aligned at correct height and centered over the respective track center. Obviously with some off center models and scripting trickery we could make it work as sg in 1 session and ng in the another. But to handle a string of std gage and then move a ng one right in front of us - I don't know how the transition would look like in realtime.

National Refactories - NARRCO the brick factory just north of the coal prep plant with the round ovens was one of EBT's main customer I believe.

Full dualtrack switches currently require 2 switch levers to operate. However several in the yard only switch dg to ng or dg to sg and thus only 1 lever is necessary. I figured I'd write a script to handle the full dg switches to work with a single lever but tthat hasn't happened yet. I currently need a lot of levers in mt union.

Bob Pearson


http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/MtUnion_yard/mt_union_yard_in_cadrail.png

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/MtUnion_yard/Screen_025.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/MtUnion_yard/Screen_015.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Route_pics_No17_South_Bound/20100705_0007.jpg
My maps usually have tiger lines on them but I only use then for general reference as most all the track is written into the trk files directly.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Rockhill_yard/orbisonia_yard_in_cadrail.png
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Rockhill_yard/EBTRoundhouse10-07-2006.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Rockhill_yard/20120115_0002A.jpg
I modified Ben's roundhouse slightly to get the lead right.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Rockhill_yard/orbisonia_yard_in_surveyor.jpg

cascaderailroad
July 8th, 2013, 02:11 PM
There was a site (I think it is gone) that had lots of dual gauge track.

You could always superimpose a 3 ft NG track, sliding it under, and hiding it 0.001m under the SG track, as NG/SG Dual track shares one rail

RPearson
July 8th, 2013, 02:41 PM
Yes, I think some people just use a 3rd rail and lay it separately over the std gage track. If you made the ng with just one rail and a marker for the other that shows only in surveyor perhaps it would be easier to get the right spacing. IIRC Zec used something like that. But I think his template was broken with TS2012. 8-( Spline points too close together or something. Amazing because it's surveyor that has problems - driver uses what's in the file and doesn't object - yet.

Bob Pearson


Hey just got a message that says my mailbox is full - I haven't checked it since Jan probably.

trainbrain_02
July 8th, 2013, 02:42 PM
http://trainzforge.weebly.com/freeware.html

This site has three EBT Mikado's in the classic Black paint. I have them in both TRS 2006 and TS12.:D

bigboy4014
July 10th, 2013, 11:49 AM
hey all just a quick thing that maybe someone can help me with, I'm trying to be able to use 36ga logging equipment for the EBTRR me and cascade are working on but I've run into a problem with the damned things and was hopping someone could help me fix them

36ga Skeleton 22ft Mich-Cal,<kuid2:86661:15430:3>

This asset uses an obsolete trainz-build number. Trainz-build numbers below 2.9 are no longer supported.

Warning: Required container 'thumbnails' is missing.

Error: Binary conversion failed for texture resource 'mc_skeletontrs_art/mc_skeletontrs_art_512.texture.txt'.

Warning: The texture 'mc_skeletontrs_body/grey.tga' is a uniform color.

Warning: The texture 'mc_skeletontrs_shadow/black.tga' is a uniform color.



36ga Skeleton 36ft D&C,<kuid2:86661:15048:2>
Warning: This asset uses an obsolete trainz-build number. Trainz-build numbers below 2.9 are no longer supported.

Warning: Required container 'thumbnails' is missing.

Error: Binary conversion failed for texture resource 'dc_skeleton_art/dc_skeleton_art_512.texture.txt'.

Warning: The texture 'dc_skeleton_shadow/black.tga' is a uniform color.

36ga Skeleton 42ft PCF,<kuid2:86661:15049:2>

Warning: This asset uses an obsolete trainz-build number. Trainz-build numbers below 2.9 are no longer supported.

Warning: Required container 'thumbnails' is missing.

Error: Binary conversion failed for texture resource 'ng_skeleton_pcf_art/ng_skeleton_pcf_art_512.texture.txt'.

Warning: The texture 'ng_skeleton_pcf_shadow/black.tga' is a uniform color.

all of these predate the 2006 edition of trainz and i'm running 2012 but in the past i have been able to get locomotives and buildings predating 2006 to work, but i can't figure out the rollingstock with the exception of the EBT rollingstock which went into the game without a problem. like i said if anyone can help me please let me know and send me a private message.

ebtrr
July 11th, 2013, 03:11 PM
National Refactories - NARRCO the brick factory just north of the coal prep plant with the round ovens was one of EBT's main customer I believe.

That would be North American Refractories (NARCo), formelry United States Refractoreis, formerly Mount Union Refractories.

bendorsey
July 11th, 2013, 03:22 PM
MAN6 track components by Elvenor are for dual gauge track. Anything can be made including a swish (where the common rail changes sides). Shortline2 made several tracks to match. Well worth a look (if you haven't already.

Ben

cascaderailroad
August 22nd, 2013, 07:45 PM
The route is comming rather nicely !

Needs alot more work !

The great Bendorsey is our hero, making this all possible !

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002_zpsc7ac6b8d.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_002_zpsc7ac6b8d.jpg.html)

http://www.railfanusa.com/pics/mine/ebt2/090725_1.jpg

Zeldaboy14
August 22nd, 2013, 07:59 PM
That would be North American Refractories (NARCo), formelry United States Refractoreis, formerly Mount Union Refractories.
Are you a registered member of Trainz? If not, please go and register a serial number please.

cascaderailroad
August 22nd, 2013, 08:04 PM
I would think that anyone with a handle: ebtrr ... is "A" Ok in my book !

bigboy4014
August 24th, 2013, 04:04 PM
East Broad Top #18 has joined traiz to be with it's sister locomotive #17.
if you wish to have a CDP copy of the locomotive send me an email at
Dichuz1234@aol.com
please put EBT #18 as your subject and leave a message

bigboy4014
August 24th, 2013, 04:27 PM
did Zelda really get banned?

n8phu
August 24th, 2013, 06:53 PM
Looks like it, you can't PM him.

cascaderailroad
August 28th, 2013, 03:36 PM
Progress so far:

One problem is that I can not add a track at the top red arrow ... as the turntable does not recognize the top red track spline point ... and derails there !

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_004Colored_zps83449872.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_004Colored_zps83449872.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_004_zpse5984f43.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_004_zpse5984f43.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002_zps1574524c.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_002_zps1574524c.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_003_zps50cc9805.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_003_zps50cc9805.jpg.html)



http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_010_zps1f4f44f7.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_010_zps1f4f44f7.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_011_zps0abc803b.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_011_zps0abc803b.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_012_zpsced1a5a1.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_012_zpsced1a5a1.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_013_zpsb8d04379.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_013_zpsb8d04379.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_014_zpsdc437155.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_014_zpsdc437155.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_015_zpsb3ddda3f.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_015_zpsb3ddda3f.jpg.html)

817TAYLOR
August 28th, 2013, 06:35 PM
looks awesome! what ever happened to that caboose?

cascaderailroad
August 28th, 2013, 07:31 PM
BigBoy4014, and especially I, wish to apologize to Philip114 for stealing his thunder ... I really don't know who restarted this interest in remaking the EBT ... but we want Philip114 onboard, as well as RPearson, and any others who have an EBT interest.

It is said that no idea is truely original ... and is only an offshoot of something that you once saw someone else do.

Philip114 gave me some great ideas .... and has a caboose perfect for this route ... now it is time for me to give back to him, what I like to do best ... lay track and buildings.

Alot more work to do !

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001_zps6f24e4e2.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_001_zps6f24e4e2.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002_zps6acf22a6.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_002_zps6acf22a6.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_003_zps62d4612a.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_003_zps62d4612a.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_004_zps1683686a.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_004_zps1683686a.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_005_zps5bab8321.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_005_zps5bab8321.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_006_zps6b0ba618.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_006_zps6b0ba618.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_007_zps3fc1bb26.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_007_zps3fc1bb26.jpg.html)

n8phu
August 28th, 2013, 07:41 PM
Nice work!

I would be tempted to try the 3'-6" world for a good EBT route....

trolley8
August 29th, 2013, 04:59 PM
Looking at the turntable, where there really that many tracks coming off it? I only seem to remember the eight roundhouse stalls and the two other tracks to the rest of the yard.

With the Mount Union Yard dual-gauge problem, could you make dual-gauge-three-rail track for regular narrow-gauge equipment to appear right with offset to the side standard-gauge-only track and have all standard gauge equipment offset to the side? That would make it compatible with narrow gauge and appear right, correct? If that doesn't work (I have no idea on how to make track!) couldn't it just be made to appear like this (still with offset standard gauge equipment), as there is invisible track and the "track" that is visible could just be spine-objects? This wouldn't solve the problem with switches (narrow gauge to one side, standard to the other), though, unless you somehow put a signal that stays red to prevent a standard gauge train from going down narrow gauge track.

Just a though.

Or maybe you could set up a complicated transfer-table system...

Keep up the good work, the screenshots look great!

cascaderailroad
August 29th, 2013, 10:13 PM
The Turntable: http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_004Colored_zps83449872.jpg

I placed those tracks so as to show how many degrees that I wanted to achive, as the track with the red "X" through it, 2 tracks upward, it's angle is way off, and I wish I could add a track where the upper red arrow is, but the tuntable won't recognise the top track ... and derails.

There is a dead end track that has always bothered me ... and I found that it was at one time connected to the Orbisonia station No1 track, so I moved the carshop over 1 track width, and put the through track back in service as it was, in the 1920's, before the new carshop was constucted.

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001_zps5807fc20.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_001_zps5807fc20.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Rockhill2_zpsbf6fb805.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Rockhill2_zpsbf6fb805.jpg.html)

I also moved the trolly buildings and track backwards into the wye, as when they built that facility, they tore out one of the wye inner connecting tracks.

Like it or not ... That's the way it stays !

817TAYLOR
September 2nd, 2013, 09:21 PM
this is cool stuff man like no kidding this is amazing!

cascaderailroad
September 3rd, 2013, 12:15 AM
Alot more work to do !

Without Bendorsey's help, this route would be impossible !

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_1_zps175693bf.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_1_zps175693bf.jpg.html)

817TAYLOR
September 3rd, 2013, 12:20 AM
Do I notice custom Track and custom switches?

cascaderailroad
September 3rd, 2013, 10:33 AM
The track is on the DLS: 1000m, the equivelent of 0.944m (= @ 36") track on the DLS, by: Joxemai #148561: Via estrecha tm 1000 mm 2 mts <kuid:148561:38004>
The switches are all laid with high precision, employing straight edge tools, and using the "Get Curve Radius" button.
3 Way Stub switches are in @ 3 places, but I am using single track, as I have not found and tested any animated Stub Switchs.
I try to keep the gradients between 0.10% to 0.25% in most places, but in the mountains the grades are as steep as 1.75% to 2.5%

Last night I worked @ 5 hours ... went to shut down, and inadvertantly hit "Don't Save" .... AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ... Schaz Batt !

Today I did the same trackage over again in 2 hours ... and it is even better laid ... and gradients & curves are immaculate !

Mount Union yard will be a huge undertaking, with its complex daul gauge 3' track !

This route being done in TRS2006 will work in 09, 10, 12 ... I am not sure if a 06 route can be backdated to 04 though ?

817TAYLOR
September 3rd, 2013, 12:44 PM
Dude insane!

cascaderailroad
September 3rd, 2013, 01:44 PM
Yes ... Yes, I am ... it helps to be that way ... in Trainz ... and is good therapy ... Definition of insanity: "Doing the same things over and over, expecting different results each time".

bendorsey
September 3rd, 2013, 02:33 PM
Sanity is greatly over rated, lol.

Ben

ebtrr
September 4th, 2013, 02:00 PM
The Turntable: http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_004Colored_zps83449872.jpg

I placed those tracks so as to show how many degrees that I wanted to achive, as the track with the red "X" through it, 2 tracks upward, it's angle is way off, and I wish I could add a track where the upper red arrow is, but the tuntable won't recognise the top track ... and derails.

There is a dead end track that has always bothered me ... and I found that it was at one time connected to the Orbisonia station No1 track, so I moved the carshop over 1 track width, and put the through track back in service as it was, in the 1920's, before the new carshop was constucted.

I also moved the trolly buildings and track backwards into the wye, as when they built that facility, they tore out one of the wye inner connecting tracks.

Like it or not ... That's the way it stays !

Hmmm.

As far as I'm concerned you can delete the trolley barn and shop completely and put the coal trestle back in that was in that location during common carrier days.

As for the movement of the Car Shop, I don't care for that. One of the most endearing things about the EBT is it's idiosynchrocies like what was done with track 1. The car shop was not new in the 1920s. Is is the original building from the 1880's but they added onto the length twice and added on to the east to cover a third track. When they added the track, track 1 could not make the turn into the south end of the building so they dead-ended it and put a switch off track 0 into the track 1 doors.

Overall I am very impressed with what you have accomplished. Looks like it will be excellent when it is finished.

A couple notes in Rockhill. The coach track is the track that connects the turntable lead to track 1. The spur that comes off that track does not go into the main shops. The first shop building the spur passes (the Electrical/Brake Shop) has a small lean-to on the west side that the spur goes into and terminates. That is where the M-3 lives. The track did not go any further than that. Second, the north leads into the Car Shop are in their tourist ear configuration. During the common carrier era, track 1 terminated beside the Foundry and track 0 split and went into both the track 1 and track 0 doors. This was so that all cars assembled are rebuilt in the Car Shop were routed out over the Rockhill scale, which was on track 0 near the Electrical Shop. The stub of track 1 was used for storing passenger cars and cabooses. The stub of track 1 on the south end was used to store MOW equipment and other seldom used equipment.

cascaderailroad
September 4th, 2013, 03:12 PM
Please get on free Skype, and IM me

Although the mainline which is No2 track (and the No 1 track being the Orbisonia station track), both No1 #1 & 2 track go completely through the yard, on my route, even though the the No1 track is presently severed at the carshop (because it intefered with the car shops larger construction) I will not represent this abortion, on my route ! PERIOD !

I am modeling the era 1850 to 1900 only, not his raped, screwed up era 1950, nor the raped screwed up present era of the day trackage, where tracks were removed, and severed !

If the track was there at one time or another ... it will be replicated as it was in the wayback dayz !

I like trolleys ... That is why the modern Trolley facility will remain in place on my route !

Also if anyone resents that the trolley barns and what trackage I chose to represent, as NOT to being included (and with the 1890's trackage) I will gladly "PULL" the route from release !

This is my route ... if you object to any of my revisions ... you will get NOTHING !

No if, and's, or butts !

I have spent many a hard long hours reseaching this route ... and I will not be told which abortion track has been replacing the original trackage !

ebtrr
September 5th, 2013, 10:33 AM
Please get on free Skype, and IM me

Although the mainline which is No2 track (and the No 1 track being the Orbisonia station track), both No1 #1 & 2 track go completely through the yard, on my route, even though the the No1 track is presently severed at the carshop (because it intefered with the car shops larger construction) I will not represent this abortion, on my route ! PERIOD !

I am modeling the era 1850 to 1900 only, not his raped, screwed up era 1950, nor the raped screwed up present era of the day trackage, where tracks were removed, and severed !

If the track was there at one time or another ... it will be replicated as it was in the wayback dayz !

I like trolleys ... That is why the modern Trolley facility will remain in place on my route !

Also if anyone resents that the trolley barns and what trackage I chose to represent, as NOT to being included (and with the 1890's trackage) I will gladly "PULL" the route from release !

This is my route ... if you object to any of my revisions ... you will get NOTHING !

No if, and's, or butts !

I have spent many a hard long hours reseaching this route ... and I will not be told which abortion track has been replacing the original trackage !

How rude. I was trying to help you out thinking you wanted the route to be accurate, but apparently not. If this is the thanks I get, I regret trying. I don't even have a copy of Trainz so it's does not affect me at all if you don't release it. I will just leave you with the fact that the structures and track layout in the yard in the pre-1900 era were dramatically different than what you have drawn, but I doubt you want to hear that either. Do what you want.

bigboy4014
September 14th, 2013, 05:44 PM
to cascaderailroad and bendorsey,
due to my current circumstance with my living arrangements having moved back in with my parents they have stripped me of my computer in typical parent fashion, due to this i can no longer be the middle man in our east broad top project and how long i will be gone has not yet been determined, ben anything you have sent me over the past two days i would like you to email to cascade......and damn it cascade please check your email you'll need to now, i wish you the best of luck on our dream in the upcoming months and i hope that in time i will be able to return to "active service" in the near future, hopefully i will return in time to see it completed,
best of luck,
bigboy4014

cascaderailroad
September 14th, 2013, 07:17 PM
I will continue onward in your absence, and fulfill your expectations with this route !

The PC, and Trainz is "The route of all evil" ! :hehe:

Matt3985
September 14th, 2013, 08:32 PM
Really you guys are working on a EBT Route!!! Can I help out.

cascaderailroad
September 14th, 2013, 08:37 PM
Sure ... You can be our TS MAC tester

bendorsey
September 15th, 2013, 09:29 AM
Cascade:

I sent you 2 items this morning. Like Bigboy sez - check your e-mail, lol.

Ben

cascaderailroad
September 15th, 2013, 08:32 PM
Skype makes a noise when someone sends me a message ... However with Yahoo E-Mail even if logged on, it never makes a peep of a noise, when I get a new message. I rarely checked my E-Mail in receint months, since I got free Skype IM ... I will check my E-Mail regularly, several times per day ... thank you so much Bendorsey ! :cool:

bigboy4014
September 22nd, 2013, 10:49 PM
Skype makes a noise when someone sends me a message ... However with Yahoo E-Mail even if logged on, it never makes a peep of a noise, when I get a new message. I rarely checked my E-Mail in receint months, since I got free Skype IM ... I will check my E-Mail regularly, several times per day ... thank you so much Bendorsey ! :cool:

That is why i love my smart phone i have quagmire doing giggity giggity whenever i a new email....only when its in another tab though

bigboy4014
September 22nd, 2013, 10:50 PM
Skype makes a nBen when someone sends me a message ... However with Yahoo E-Mail even if logged on, it never makes a peep of a noise, when I get a new message. I rarely checked my E-Mail in receint months, since I got free Skype IM ... I will check my E-Mail regularly, several times per day ... thank you so much Bendorsey ! :cool:
Oh and cascade won't work trying top convince Ben to get Skype...tried.....doesn't work.....much like the ebt's current owners HEYO!

bigboy4014
September 22nd, 2013, 11:03 PM
Welcome to the Broad Top Gang Matt, hope you enjoy being able to work with us and help test our route. I have been in this project since the day it started, If you find any issues please let cascade know, I'm actually happy you joined our gang as i recently was forced to take a step back from the project temporarily And take a look at my personal life....now if cascade could hurry with the damn taxes You would have something to test.. Cause at this point the line is perfect

cascaderailroad
September 23rd, 2013, 12:08 AM
Priorities come first ... Trainz comes last ... Down bigboy4014 ... Patience grasshopper ... for posting 3 redundant posts, right on top of each other, the penalty for you is, that you edit those 3 posts (advanced edit), and edit in 10 screenshots in each post :hehe:

It's hard to get excited, when the EBT looks like this today ... shut down for the 2nd year in a row :'(
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/26546514.jpg

bendorsey
September 23rd, 2013, 07:50 AM
Yo Cascade:

Check you e-mail in box, lol.

Ben

bigboy4014
September 23rd, 2013, 12:18 PM
fyi my group the east broad top gang is up on the forums for those who want to join ben i sent you an invite please accept it will be a great place for you to post your wonderful ebt building photos and im going to put in a discussion for people to request buildings for you to build

Matt3985
September 23rd, 2013, 12:41 PM
Sure ... You can be our TS MAC tester Thanks Guys. Its such an honer. Look forward to beta testing it. :) I sure hope the real EBT can get back on its feet again. Shame its been closes for about 2 years now.

bigboy4014
September 24th, 2013, 04:25 PM
Indeed it is a shame unless one of us wins the lottery all we can do is pray that kovalchick will realize he is expecting to much from those that want to lease the line and operate it and Back down on his Restrictions such as he doesnt want the trackage extended at All Which is what many leasers wsnt to do, and i did read that,at least obe leaser wanted to start work on Restoring as far south as saltillo and North ro shirleysburg, and kovalchick Said no

simulatortrain
October 2nd, 2013, 03:27 PM
Indeed it is a shame unless one of us wins the lottery all we can do is pray that kovalchick will realize he is expecting to much from those that want to lease the line and operate it and Back down on his Restrictions such as he doesnt want the trackage extended at All Which is what many leasers wsnt to do, and i did read that,at least obe leaser wanted to start work on Restoring as far south as saltillo and North ro shirleysburg, and kovalchick Said no

this Post was really hard To Read without Punctuation and with one very long sentence Going On throughout

It'd be nice to know what Kovalchick wants to do, but he hasn't said anything publicly for a good while; so until then I wouldn't go putting words in his mouth. Also, the only "leaser" who has officially expressed interest in acquiring the line is the EBT Preservation Association, which is no better at keeping people informed.

jadebullet
October 2nd, 2013, 04:23 PM
Please get on free Skype, and IM me

Although the mainline which is No2 track (and the No 1 track being the Orbisonia station track), both No1 #1 & 2 track go completely through the yard, on my route, even though the the No1 track is presently severed at the carshop (because it intefered with the car shops larger construction) I will not represent this abortion, on my route ! PERIOD !

I am modeling the era 1850 to 1900 only, not his raped, screwed up era 1950, nor the raped screwed up present era of the day trackage, where tracks were removed, and severed !

If the track was there at one time or another ... it will be replicated as it was in the wayback dayz !

I like trolleys ... That is why the modern Trolley facility will remain in place on my route !

Also if anyone resents that the trolley barns and what trackage I chose to represent, as NOT to being included (and with the 1890's trackage) I will gladly "PULL" the route from release !

This is my route ... if you object to any of my revisions ... you will get NOTHING !

No if, and's, or butts !

I have spent many a hard long hours reseaching this route ... and I will not be told which abortion track has been replacing the original trackage !


You know, I went through this entire post and found it quite interesting, until I got to this post. There is no reason for someone to be so damn rude when someone is pointing out a minor criticism. I will not be downloading your "abortion" route and quite frankly if you are getting so angry about polite constructive criticism, you should probably quit posting pics of your stuff or making anything for release at all. I remember when you used to be a pretty cool guy, who was level headed and helpful. Now you are just grumpy, and post about things that you know nothing about (such as claiming that you need a college education to be an engineer which is false).

Sorry if I sound angry, because I really am not angry. I am just annoyed that someone would be so abusive and mean when someone just pointed out some nice polite criticism, and provided info on the prototype.

cascaderailroad
October 2nd, 2013, 07:10 PM
I can be as rude as I want ... People were telling me that Google Earth images were wrong, that official track maps were wrong, and they were demanding that I was NOT make my route the way I wanted it, that the trolley barns were demanded NOT to be included.

I finally got fed up with all the teenagers and 20 y/o's demanding things ... and you will get the route the way I want it delivered ... because I have studied the route extensively, and intend on releasing it my way ... and if you don't like the way I designed the route ... you are always free to change it back to your likings.

I really don't care what you think, or what you don't like ... I will do it as accurately a possible.

I don't need no young college under grad, uneducated, whippersnappers, with inflated egos, making demands on me, and how I do my route.

jadebullet
October 2nd, 2013, 08:44 PM
Yeah, well I don't need no uneducated old timer insulting me. Just because you are older than me doesn't mean that you are more intelligent, or better than me, and it definitely doesn't mean you can talk down to and deride me.

All that happened is someone pointed out that you moved a building that was an original building, rather than getting a version that is the reduced size that you were going for, AKA, it was inaccurate. Also, aren't the trolley shops a modern thing? When you go about saying that you are making something the most accurate way possible, then shift stuff around unprototypically so that you could have it like it was pre 1925, then keep stuff in that is more modern, you are asking for people to call you out on it. If you want to make a route based on a specific prototype, you make it based on the prototype, you don't pick and choose what parts you want then talk about how it is going to be extremely accurate.

Am I demanding that you change it? No, it is your route. I am just stating that you can't claim an accurate route in one breath, then talk about all of the things you are changing in another, then flip out like some spaz when someone calls you out on it. Heck, he wasn't even being rude about it. He was very polite, and just gave you constructive criticism. You flipped out like he was some kid straying too close to your overgrown yard and tacky pink flamingo decoration. (for the sake of argument, we will call him fluffy)

If you don't want people to provide you with historical information, tips, criticisms, and suggestions about how to make your "as accurate as possible" prototype route, then you should switch to freelancing, or at least stop claiming that you are making this the most accurate representation of the prototype ever. I am sorry if that is the way it is, but that is what the word "Accurate" means. Or at the very least, stop flipping out whenever someone lets you know that something that you are doing for your own personal reasons is incorrect. It would be like if I made the EBT, but decided that it was a 2 foot gauge, electrified line, but I told everyone that this is true to the prototype and yelled at anyone who told me that they use steam.

And finally, so a college undergrad is uneducated now? You obviously ain't got no fetchin' up.

tl:dr Stop being a crotchety old man and realize that when you throw around claims of total prototypical accuracy, then people are going to point things out that are wrong. They are trying to HELP you. Don't bite their head off. Just explain to them nicely that you are making the route the way you want to make it, and it might not be prototypically accurate, but it is the way you want to do it.

cascaderailroad
October 2nd, 2013, 09:01 PM
People on the FEBT were saying that the map was not real ... How would they even know what was real, or what wasn't real, as they weren't even born, and only their grandparents knew, what I now know, and they still claim my maps to be false, as they are young obstinant people, with no acceptance of what what was real, in the old days, and all they see is what they seen nowadays, a raped, torn up, dilapidated rail line, with missing and altered trackage, that probably won't ever come back into running shape, ever again.

If I want to include the Rockhill Trolley museum into a collage of all the era's 1870's to 2013 ... that I will do ... I really don't care what you like, or what you don't like !

Why did you come into this thread, unless it was to purposely disrespect me ... I guess that was your intetntion, to add your voice of disrespect to a thread ?

Why don't you save your bashing ... to someone else's thread ?

I don't come into your threads to bash you !

simulatortrain
October 2nd, 2013, 10:24 PM
Maybe he came in................ wait for it................ to read the thread?

jadebullet
October 3rd, 2013, 07:29 AM
I was coming to this thread in order to read a thread about an EBT project, and I saw you throwing a temper tantrum.

Also, people can have knowledge of things without being alive you know. I have lots of information about WWII, though I haven't lived through it. Whether or not your maps are indeed incorrect, there is no reason why you need to flip out on someone who had nothing to do with the FEBT, and had nothing to do with claiming your maps are wrong.

And no, I didn't come into this thread to disrespect you, you did that well enough by yourself. Also "..." is not a proper form of punctuation the way you used it.

cascaderailroad
October 3rd, 2013, 08:13 AM
You have the right to read the thread ... or not to read the thread.

I absolutely do not need any of your personal input and advice, whether it be about my personal attitude, about the East Broad Top RR, or about Trainz.

I don't come into your threads and try to impose personal findings about you, or make my attitude adjustment upon you.

flyboy559
October 3rd, 2013, 10:55 AM
Guys, lets be civil so the moderators dont have to get involved.

trolley8
October 15th, 2013, 09:39 PM
I know that you guys are having touble with Mount Union, so here is my idea:

The narrow gauge center of the dual gauge track is the center of the spline, the standard gauge center is offset.

Two copies of each standard gauge piece of equipment used are made - one offset left, the other offset right.

I think you could use triggers and automatic signalling to keep standard gauge trains off of narrow gauge track and vice versa.

At the standard gauge wye, a modified portal would be placed at the stub end. This would accept one car/engine at a time (length restraints) and would spit out the clone of it offset to the other side. This portal would be ever so slightly downhill from the rest of the wye so that a car could be uncoupled and rolled by gravity to the portal. You could also place a modified portal like above on either side of the switch that accepts cars/locos offset to the wrong side and spits them back out.

A modified portal that consumes trains of the wrong gauge and spits the train instantly back out the same as it was before (in the "same" direction, which would mean "reversed" direction in the portal's view and cars offset to the other side) could possibly be made, if needed.

A third centered standard gauge model could be made for regular standard gauge track, but I don't think that would not be necessary. With this you would need a portal to witch the train to a centered train.

It might involve the creation of rules which would not be fun.

Just a suggestion.

I don't know whether this would work, or whether it would be acceptable, but I will try to see would I can do to the portals...
If it worked at all, you would have one-lever switches and standard gauge to narrow gauge coupling at the expense of difficulty of creating it in the first place, lack of equipment available for use, and sacrifice of realism. It would really only work for sessions and not quick drive.

trolley8
October 15th, 2013, 10:25 PM
[This post has been merged with the above post]

bigboy4014
October 23rd, 2013, 06:26 PM
"At the standard gauge wye, a modified portal would be placed at the stub end. This would accept one car/engine at a time (length restraints) and would spit out the clone of it offset to the other side. This portal would be ever so slightly downhill from the rest of the wye so that a car could be uncoupled and rolled by gravity to the portal. You could also place a modified portal like above on either side of the switch that accepts cars/locos offset to the wrong side and spits them back out."
sorry to be a correctosaurus but the wye in mount union was actually relatively strange in design the southern leg of the wye was narrow gauge while the northern leg was dual gauge (much like the setup in Rockhill Furnace)'
which makes me wonder how standard gauge loco's were turned to leave mount union

cascaderailroad
October 23rd, 2013, 07:19 PM
The EBT route will have @ a mile or so of PRR SG mainline, both to the east & west of Mt Union with two terminus portals (possibly iPortals).

There will be one or two mainline portals, so that SG trains from Huntingdon and Lewistown, can enter Mt Union from the PRR mainline ... and versa' visa' disappear into a portal when leaving on the PRR mainline towards Huntingdon, or to Lewistown

The same portals will emit SG trains from the PRR mainline, into the portion of the Mt Union yard interchange that was SG.

The dual gauge trackage from Mt Union only went just so far ... and the rest of the line to Orbisonia was 36" NG

A some point SG railcars were oftentimes lifted from their trucks, and NG wheelsets were swapped in place.

In the Mt Union yard, coal and timber was offloaded, or visa' versa' were reloaded onto NG, or SG railcars at an elevated wall, or an overhead transfer crane, or elevated coal dump.

The track will be NG track, superimposed on top of SG track, with one rail counceiled within the outer rail. (So the track will actually be two separate rail splines).

For quite alot of the Mount Union yard, some tracks never saw a SG railcar, as for the most part it was NG, on the upper level trackage.

For the most part the lower level was dual gauge.

I really don't see much profitability of swapping NG trucks under SG railcars, as most of the tracffic on the EBT was export coal and timber to the PRR ... and very little SG freight actually came into the EBT mainline ... and retrofitting those SG/NG railcars must have been very time consuming, and highly cost ineffective.

My preliminary choices of track are MP Track Wood v2 <KUID2:69871:2004:2> by Philskene ... and Via estrecha tm 1000 mm 2 mts <KUID:148561:38004> by Joxemai (which comes very close to 36" NG, and looks very 3D detailed).

bigboy4014
October 24th, 2013, 07:32 PM
I really don't see much profitability of swapping NG trucks under SG railcars, as most of the tracffic on the EBT was export coal and timber to the PRR ... and very little SG freight actually came into the EBT mainline ... and retrofitting those SG/NG railcars must have been very time consuming, and highly cost ineffective.

actually compared to the normal operation of unloading and loading from standard gauge-ng car the use of swapping trucks of standard gauge cars was extremely time efficient and very cost effective, a process that would normally take days now turned into hours at a dramatic drop in cost. photographs show many SG cars moving over the line especially arround the time of when route 522 wa created durring this time thousands upon thousands of tank SG tank cars were ahuled which is why 99% of the hidden track can be found by tracing route 522 as it at many points replicates the curves and movement of the line

cascaderailroad
October 25th, 2013, 02:19 AM
What was in all those: "thousands upon thousands of tank SG tank cars" ?
The heating source for homes and business's was coal and timber, hauled in from the EBT backwoods.

a44bigdog
October 25th, 2013, 03:00 AM
A some point SG railcars were oftentimes lifted from their trucks, and NG wheelsets were swapped in place.

I really don't see much profitability of swapping NG trucks under SG railcars, as most of the tracffic on the EBT was export coal and timber to the PRR ... and very little SG freight actually came into the EBT mainline ... and retrofitting those SG/NG railcars must have been very time consuming, and highly cost ineffective.

Right in Mt. Union yard and the EBT was famous for it.

It only took about 30 minutes.

Look here for more info, pics and SG car numbers that ran on the EBT http://www.totalracing.com/ebt/stdgauge.htm

And for an even faster method that was used in the 1800s by other railroads the Ramsey Transfer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsey_Car_Transfer_Apparatus

bigboy4014
October 25th, 2013, 03:25 PM
[QUOTE=cascaderailroad;1213132]What was in all those: "thousands upon thousands of tank SG tank cars" ?

what was in these SGtank cars (while thousands upon thousands may be a dramatization) was gallons of tar used for the construction of route 522 ...the east broad top in the late teens-early 20's realized that swapping trucks was more efficient when unloading liquid freight such as tar and gasoline it dramatically cut down the amount of time needed to move a train north-south to a mear couple of hours in mount union yard, also it cut back on the amount the EBT would have to pay their employees as it when from a few dozen workers- less than 10
1. 1 crane operater
2. 1 crane spotter
3. 2 people to link the chains
4. 2 people to swap trucks
5. 1 train crew of two to move each car.

cascaderailroad
October 25th, 2013, 08:45 PM
I hardly think that tar & gasoline was profitable to swap out bogeys, just to get a load, 6 whole miles, to Rockhill, where it would have to be off loaded, and mixed with pea gravel, and hauled to the route 522 road construction site via trucks. I seriously doubt that they had multiple asphalt mixing facilties all along the line, to make road making materials, offloaded from tankcars.

In the age of the construction of highways ... tanker trucks, and dumptrucks, were used ... and I seriously doubt that even one gasoline station had a tankcar rail spur.

I would imagine that the bogey swapping was a shortlived operation, long abandoned by the 30' and 40's

a44bigdog
October 26th, 2013, 05:23 AM
From the page I posted, swapping cars peaked in the '39 to '40 time frame, for the construction Pennsylvania Turnpike. There was also a fuel oil distributor on the EBT that received tank cars.

Scroll down on this page for a picture of a standard gauge car on the EBT in 1955 http://railfan.com/archive/rf_archive_winter75_ebt.php

trolley8
October 27th, 2013, 12:52 PM
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by bigboy4014 http://forums.auran.com/trainz/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?p=1212679#post1212679)

which makes me wonder how standard gauge loco's were turned to leave mount union

I think there were actually two wyes, one for narrow gauge and one for standard gauge. There used to be a turntable.

Arial Views -> http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/Tour/muwye.html

Detailed Map -> http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/Tour/mtunion.html

Page of Wyes -> http://www.spikesys.com/Bin/EBT/Maps/mucars.gif

cascaderailroad
October 28th, 2013, 09:10 AM
Originally Posted by bigboy4014 which makes me wonder how standard gauge loco's were turned to leave mount union

Perhaps they operated, running backwards at times.

Bendorsey has uploaded allot of new EBT assets to th DLS ... I am absolutely ecstatic !

Bendorsey is the BEST !

bigboy4014
October 28th, 2013, 04:50 PM
I think there were actually two wyes, one for narrow gauge and one for standard gauge. There used to be a turntable.

Arial Views -> http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/Tour/muwye.html

Detailed Map -> http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/Tour/mtunion.html

Page of Wyes -> http://www.spikesys.com/Bin/EBT/Maps/mucars.gif


Perhaps they operated, running backwards at times.

Bendorsey has uploaded allot of new EBT assets to th DLS ... I am absolutely ecstatic !

Bendorsey is the BEST !

mount union only had one wye, so this being the fact i do believe cascade may be right and yes we all agree bendorsey is amazing....but don't let him hear you say it!

bendorsey
October 28th, 2013, 07:15 PM
Then why did you say it? I've asked both or you to stop doing that. Either stop or I'll stop making things for the EBT. Govern yourselves accordingly.

Ben

simulatortrain
October 28th, 2013, 07:58 PM
I hardly think that tar & gasoline was profitable to swap out bogeys, just to get a load, 6 whole miles, to Rockhill, where it would have to be off loaded, and mixed with pea gravel, and hauled to the route 522 road construction site via trucks.

Maybe you don't, but they did it.

bigboy4014
October 29th, 2013, 04:51 PM
Then why did you say it? I've asked both or you to stop doing that. Either stop or I'll stop making things for the EBT. Govern yourselves accordingly.

Ben

sorry ben my bad, but everything said we do appreciate and value having the chance to work with you on this, it's not every day that one gets to work closely with someone who is passionate about what they do, and in turn makes us passionate about what we do, that is all i'm trying to say....you are a very humble man ben.

bendorsey
October 30th, 2013, 07:41 AM
Your still doing it!. Don't you understand the concept of "stop"?

I treat all Trainzers the same. Someone who needs something made and can't make it themselves. It doesn't matter what RR its for or if its an individual item or 100 or more. This is what I like to do. I don't make routes. I don't run trains. I just like making things for others to use on their routes or anyone who happens to like it and can use it. I do not expect OR WANT gushing thanks to the point of embarrassment. I'm not then best. I've never made a steam locomotive. They are the best.

SO STOP IT!!!

Ben

817TAYLOR
October 30th, 2013, 07:53 AM
I just, I am laughing to an extremist extent.

bendorsey
October 30th, 2013, 08:42 AM
Nothing wrong with a good laugh and it doesn't bother me in the least if its at my expense. The day I can't laugh at myself is the day I checkout of the human race, lol.

Ben

bigboy4014
October 30th, 2013, 02:14 PM
Nothing wrong with a good laugh and it doesn't bother me in the least if its at my expense. The day I can't laugh at myself is the day I checkout of the human race, lol.

Ben
i agree with above statement....life isn't worth living if you cant have fun with your flaws and imperfections

bigboy4014
November 2nd, 2013, 03:14 PM
attention fellow post followers we are currently looking to fill a position in our project.

track 3d modeler
Job description

two types of track needed
36in realistic looking rails based closely off of the track found on the east broad top railroad

36ng/sg track for mount union yard the east broad tops norther terminus and interchange with the PRR.
dual gauge track must be 3 rail dual gauge and operate off of one lever at switch junctions and be able to work realistically with ng so ng track connects to the ng portion of the dual gauge and not center itself on the track splines.

both sets of track but be same texture with minimal ballast preferable black ballast(the east broad top used boney as ballast

http://gwenix.org/%7Eadams/ebt/2004oct9/mtutour-h.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=7YcPw_F40HXCSM&tbnid=ABXSvmGaTnr8SM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgwenix.org%2F~adams%2Febt%2F2004o ct9%2F2004oct9thumb.html&ei=clx1UvPyBpTB4AO9_ICgBQ&psig=AFQjCNFr6SD9at7UNsGssW5q6n1wJC0jsg&ust=1383509461122288)
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQAZcWqqa_tpxlFltr7rcGxapdZo_PD2 X7flSNRqST2qNoZxk1NAw (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=-9zWYXTvtPDsoM&tbnid=M76NEsuYUgomPM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgwenix.org%2F~adams%2Febt%2F2003j ul19%2F2003jul19thumb.html&ei=7lx1UpOYBri24APmr4HIAg&psig=AFQjCNExRnwM2hLGvwWwC8STs-4xey3aMg&ust=1383509593525122)

RPearson
November 23rd, 2013, 03:09 PM
[QUOTE=trolley8;1214109]I think there were actually two wyes, one for narrow gauge and one for standard gauge. There used to be a turntable.

I don't know what the Pennsy used at MT Union. I don't think they had any provision to keep std gage locos there that would need turning. Maybe someone has better info on their trackage here.

The EBT had only 2 sg locos on their roster. Both stationed at MT Union to switch the yards, coal prep plant and brick industries. Neither loco was ever turned afaik. EBT no. 3 still resides in the engine house at Mt Union facing the same direction it always did. The wye served only to turn ng locos for their return trip to Orbisonia. I've never seen any info to indicate the EBT had a turn table at Mt Union.

Bob Pearson

bigboy4014
December 3rd, 2013, 04:11 PM
[QUOTE=trolley8;1214109]I think there were actually two wyes, one for narrow gauge and one for standard gauge. There used to be a turntable.

I don't know what the Pennsy used at MT Union. I don't think they had any provision to keep std gage locos there that would need turning. Maybe someone has better info on their trackage here.

The EBT had only 2 sg locos on their roster. Both stationed at MT Union to switch the yards, coal prep plant and brick industries. Neither loco was ever turned afaik. EBT no. 3 still resides in the engine house at Mt Union facing the same direction it always did. The wye served only to turn ng locos for their return trip to Orbisonia. I've never seen any info to indicate the EBT had a turn table at Mt Union.

Bob Pearson
i can confirm that the ebt didn't have a turntable at mount union as i have about 17 different maps of the yard from many different dates and no changes seem to have ever been made to the yard with the exception of the PRR main realignment at which point the east broad top was given the original prr station and a new one was erected.
i know however that the wye at mount union was dg/ng meaning the east broad top loco's could be turned, but as for the sg locomotives like you said they were never turned, although i will talk to some people to find out more

bigboy4014
December 4th, 2013, 03:00 PM
[QUOTE=RPearson;1226014]
i can confirm that the ebt didn't have a turntable at mount union as i have about 17 different maps of the yard from many different dates and no changes seem to have ever been made to the yard with the exception of the PRR main realignment at which point the east broad top was given the original prr station and a new one was erected.
i know however that the wye at mount union was dg/ng meaning the east broad top loco's could be turned, but as for the sg locomotives like you said they were never turned, although i will talk to some people to find out more

from my friend Christopher D. Coleman on the EBTL forums
The wye was dual gauge on two legs but only NG on one leg so you could not turn a SG loco on it. The EBT SG locos always faced RR north so there was generally no need to turn them.

If you had to turn SG equipment you could take the PRR spur east then down the curving lead under the PRR bridge to the creosote plant, then back through NARCo to the EBT yard, then forward (or the reverse order.) I do not know if this method was used or not.
so as you stated pearson the EBT standard gauge locomotives were never turned, but at the same time if need be there was a viable way of turning EBT/SG and PRR/sg locomotives alike although as he stated there is no information ever stating they did use this as part of operation

trainman7616
December 6th, 2013, 08:16 PM
You mean something along the lines (pun intended) like this?

http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/8cf6156983c83a433cafd820fca1bedb.jpeg

http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/25aa6865e0118c1f0d5b89d0523ab550.jpeg

cascaderailroad
December 6th, 2013, 08:28 PM
The East Broad Top had pretty dilapidated track, and for the most part, with ties either partialy sunk in the dirt or cinders, and ties that were worn out, split, and haphazardly spaced and crooked.

One defect I have noticed about Trainz tracks ... they appear much too clean, milled, and have grade "A" new ties ... which most RR's do not have.

trainman7616
December 6th, 2013, 08:43 PM
Dont worry. these are my own custom tracks. I will make the proper EBT tracks with the photos bigboy sent me via skype.

RPearson
December 7th, 2013, 09:40 AM
Well I don't think the EBT's track was all that delapidated back when Nos 16, 17 & 18 were hauling hoppers full of coal and ganister rock from the mines and quarries to Mt Union. The heavy mikes were rough on the track and I think you'll find the EBT management took some pride in maintaining it.

As for my route itself, I just followed the icc valuation map dwgs from 1919 - as closely as I could and that was pretty close. The dwgs show the main line and all the branches except the NARCO spur to the quarry on Jack's mountain. Every curve is located by station mark at the start and end tangent and includes the radius and central angle. Every turnout is located by station mark at the point of switch. Every siding is thus indicated and because the dwgs are to scale you can get some indication of track spacing. Every bridge, culvert and major crossing is similarly located by station mark.

A separate set of gradient map dwgs were also made for the 1919 icc valuation. They indicate track elevation continuously along the route and branch lines covered by the main dwgs - the start and stop points of each grade are located by station mark. The grade percentage is also indicated on each section of grade - you can use this as a check if you use track height at spline point to set the grade rather than the grading tool in surveyor. Of course unless you are checking a straight (as in straightened) section of track spline in Trainz you won't see a constant grade due to the undulations of the 3d spline that Trainz uses to model the geometry of the track centerline in 3d space. Just about every piece of tangent track (straight track between end point of curves) on my route has the straighten flag set - as imo it aids in both maintaining a constant grade on grades and correct end tangents on the curves.

Station marks on the dwgs give the distance in feet measured along the centerline of the track from a reference point in Mt Union. For each branch line the reference station is usually switch point of the turnout where the branch diverts from the main line. What more could you want to duplicate the track plan on a route. Actually there's lots of other info available to assist and it seems several of us have been searching for and finding it.

The track grades in my route duplicate those on the 1919 maps. I've run into some problems with slight difference in the terrain and placement of the track following the dwgs but in most all case I kept the grades and adjusted the terrain. While some indication of fill and cuts are seen in the dem data I used, for the most part I have to form these myself (same for small streams). I use a ground fill built into the track model because I find it's more realistic than trying to form fills with surveyor. But for the cuts I generally use a combination of the smooth track tool and manual terrain forming.

There's no indication the EBT used easments in and out of any of the circular curves indicated on the dwgs. I don't think they were/are actually necessary do to the relatively large radius curves used on the main line, short wheel bases and the low speed of the trains. They did however use transition curves at each change in grade in the vertical plane and these are indicated in the icc dwgs. I've included the transition curves in the grade profile of the track on my route.

Bob Pearson

cascaderailroad
December 7th, 2013, 03:38 PM
What I mean by dilapidated is: Ties that are rugged, worn, weathered, sometimes not evenly placed, as the track was meant just to get the job done, and in no way resembled new clean, Class V trackage and new ties.

RPearson
December 7th, 2013, 10:19 PM
Well I'd still have to disagree with you on that point as clarified. From what I know about the RR it was better than most in that respect.

I would agree that your statement does apply to the current state of the EBT.

Hey while I got you here did you get a chance to read the last message I sent you?

Bob Pearson

RPearson
December 8th, 2013, 05:28 AM
Back to the op -
Phil as Cascaderailroad may have mentioned I've been working on several EBT routes over the years. None seem to get very far along. The current map has been wiped out a couple of times but I just run the image files thru HOG again and add in a trk file and take a little different approach. Though with Bendorsey's content available now and more coming I probably should be taking a more permanent approach to the route. That and the fact that I should have a lot more time available to generate my own content.

I also ran into some problems of cutting it too close to the track line in some areas and some ugly end of baseboards are glaring at me in some important scenes. It looks like you might have included the NARCO branch in your route. Since I'm currently modeling an earlier period I decided for now at least not to include it. I'm not sure how much I'll be modeling of the inclinded rr that was used before the branch was built. I might just fake it in as static scenery with the tipple set up as an industry to provide the ganister rock from the quarry on Jacks mountain. The siding that goes off to the tipple is shown in the last screen shot below.

Basically all the track indicated on the icc dwgs of 1919 is included in the route. Probably with options to select the branch(es) appropriate for the operating scenario/session you want to run. I've also included the South Penn extension that the EBT graded but never laid tracks on. Mine is fully tracked - a what if I guess. And I guess like everyone else I've included a good bit of terrain for future inclusion of the PRR mainline east and west of Mt Union.

The 3rd RR on the route is the McKelvey Bros logging rr which stretched from the interchange at Rockhill south to the Ft Littleton area. It was active for a few years in the the 1920's. I have a course indication of the main section of its route drawn in as a dotted line on the tiger image file I'm using. They routinely ran tracks up to wherever the timber was being cut. They ran 2 ng3' shays on the route. The original use of the timber transfer crane in Mt Union was of course - transfering timber/lumber from ng to sg flat cars. The creosote plant in Mt Union made ties for the PRR if I got it right. As I understand it was not serviced by the EBT and all track to it was sg. All input and output was handled by the PRR.

So the route has other operating possibilities besides coal mining and processing. The EBT's coal prep/cleaning plant in Mt Union is a fascinating story in itself. It used the Chance Process - a sand /coal/water slurry mix. To filter and clean the coal which was then sorted and sent to the appropriate tipple. Afaik almost all the rr's coal went thru it. With upper and lower ng and sg yards (and lots of dg too) and gravity powering the hoppers to and from the plant and across the scales it can be a showcase operating industry.

So here's a few pics from the current map including a couple mini maps shots. Clearly a wip. To kind of confuse things a bit North for the overall route screen shot below is to the right hand side:

Mini map view of entire map - so far:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/route_pics_No16_S/RPearson_20131207_0196.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/EBTng3/media/route_pics_No16_S/RPearson_20131207_0196.jpg.html)

Mini map view of the track in Mt Union. When the dual gauge switch lever is used about 1/3 of the levers will probably disappear:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/route_pics_No16_S/RPearson_20131207_0178.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/EBTng3/media/route_pics_No16_S/RPearson_20131207_0178.jpg.html)


Approaching Orbisonia station and the shop complex at Rockhill Furnace - next 2 shots:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/route_pics_No16_S/RPearson_20131207_0095.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/EBTng3/media/route_pics_No16_S/RPearson_20131207_0095.jpg.html)

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/route_pics_No16_S/RPearson_20131207_0100-1.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/EBTng3/media/route_pics_No16_S/RPearson_20131207_0100-1.jpg.html)


Cresting Jordan Summit thru a deep narrow cut. With T2 I hope they will include some better tools to form cuts like this which is too wide compared to the real one:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/route_pics_No16_S/RPearson_20131207_0127.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/EBTng3/media/route_pics_No16_S/RPearson_20131207_0127.jpg.html)


Crossing Aughwick Creek on the steel trestle bridge at Pogue:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/route_pics_No16_S/RPearson_20131207_0136.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/EBTng3/media/route_pics_No16_S/RPearson_20131207_0136.jpg.html)



Here's the siding to the inclinded rr located just (RR) south of Three Springs. The tipple at the lower end receives ganister rock from the NARCO quarry on Jacks Mountain:http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/route_pics_No16_S/RPearson_20131207_0162.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/EBTng3/media/route_pics_No16_S/RPearson_20131207_0162.jpg.html)

Bob Pearson

bigboy4014
December 14th, 2013, 09:11 PM
rpearson i really want a copy of this route! it's making me drool!

RPearson
December 14th, 2013, 11:34 PM
Well cascaderailroad sort of talked me into posting some more pics of it. I probably will but in the screen shots forum starting with some in the Mt Union yard. I have a lot of screen shots uploaded to start a new thread. It's a wip so a lot of track and trains and not much else except un-sceniced terrain - as far as the eye can see (a good reason to use ts12 for route operation). But maybe someone will find something useful in it.

As for the map itself it's pretty large 60megs or so in TS12 and it will get only get larger as I'm finding a lot of places that need some additional boards added so probably 3 board filtering each side of the trackline in HOG on the next version I work with. TS12 format is optimized better than previous at least up to ts10. Not exactly sure when they took the images out for the minimap. But it saved a lot of file space. The 5m grid does the opposite but I haven resorted to that yet. For trs04 and 06 the same map would require a considerably larger file.

A while back I broke the track up into manageable sections that I can work with in TRS04 (did I mention using trs04 yet?) well I know my utility programs work best with it both track and terrain generation. So maybe at long last I'll finish the cut and fill part for those programs (I generate meshes to match the terrain in the gnd file so cuts and fills and rock formations are easier to make and match up with the terrain).

I'll have to generate a master map raster image of course since HOG looses all geo-referencing and I'll have to keep track of it in my programs myself. So what I'm saying is basically the map won't be distributed in it's present form but at some future date sections might be made available. For upload to the dls that might be the only way to do it.

I told cascaderr that I'd send him a section of the yard in Mt Union - as soon as I can regen a section of terrain for it. Maybe not til after the holidays at this rate.

Bob Pearson

bigboy4014
December 15th, 2013, 11:06 AM
oh and i noticed something wrong with your setup of pogue bridge you have it placed short ot that red line there which is the road that is supposed to run under that first part of the bridge..if i'm not mistaken to this day the road is still made of dirt

cascaderailroad
December 15th, 2013, 12:15 PM
If the DEM has a riverbed channel contour in the terrain, that is exactly where the riverbed is supposed to be ... HOG data colored lines may be way off by +/- 20m (or more) in all directions, so the colored lines may be in total error.

It appears the the creek bed HOG colored line is way up on the hillside (where it should not be) so in this case RPearson might be totally correct in his placement of the bridge ... and the road is asphalt with yellow sidelines. If you place things excatly on the HOG colored lines, usually they are in totaly the wrong placement. The colored HOG data lines are meant to be a rough guestimate, and a rough general guide of where things are to be placed. Constantly pointing out little things that are wrong, just makes building a route a total PITA, with nitpicking, sweating over all the small stuff.

RPearson
December 15th, 2013, 01:02 PM
Well to set the record straight, I used MD and HOG to generate the terrain from 10m DEM data. HOG has no concept of geo-referencing so to keep the discussion short I - for various reasons - position the TIGER line data myself. I do visual best fit based on the stream, creek and river that are in the DEM data by adding a layer with the TIGER lines to the image file output from HOG's PIGLET utility (built into HOG to make a special height image file from an ascii xyz DEM input. I use the lines as a general guide to locate things on the map and that's all.

Cascaderailroad, you're correct in that the TIGER data is not that accurate to start with some of it hand digitized 20 yrs ago or more. In the end the terrain and/or track will get manually adjusted to give a workable fit and everything else will be placed to suit. At least that's my current standard for the route. I should have some pic I took of that area a few yrs back. See what I can dig up.


Bob Pearson

RPearson
December 15th, 2013, 04:53 PM
Well located the pics I was after of that area - just had to locate the right cd.

The road is paved but I don't know what the status was back in the 1920's which is roughly the time frame I'm modeling. The bridge as modeled has some differences with the existing but overall it certainly has the right look.

I took these back in Oct 2006.

Bob Pearson



http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Pogue%20Bridge%20over%20Aughwick%20Cr/100_1086.jpg


http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Pogue%20Bridge%20over%20Aughwick%20Cr/100_1098.jpg


http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Pogue%20Bridge%20over%20Aughwick%20Cr/100_1099.jpg


http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Pogue%20Bridge%20over%20Aughwick%20Cr/100_1089.jpg


http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Pogue%20Bridge%20over%20Aughwick%20Cr/100_1091.jpg


http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Pogue%20Bridge%20over%20Aughwick%20Cr/100_1102.jpg

bigboy4014
December 28th, 2013, 10:10 PM
Well located the pics I was after of that area - just had to locate the right cd.

The road is paved but I don't know what the status was back in the 1920's which is roughly the time frame I'm modeling. The bridge as modeled has some differences with the existing but overall it certainly has the right look.

I took these back in Oct 2006.

Bob Pearson



http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Pogue%20Bridge%20over%20Aughwick%20Cr/100_1086.jpg


http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Pogue%20Bridge%20over%20Aughwick%20Cr/100_1098.jpg


http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Pogue%20Bridge%20over%20Aughwick%20Cr/100_1099.jpg


http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Pogue%20Bridge%20over%20Aughwick%20Cr/100_1089.jpg


http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Pogue%20Bridge%20over%20Aughwick%20Cr/100_1091.jpg


http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/EBTng3/Pogue%20Bridge%20over%20Aughwick%20Cr/100_1102.jpg
there are absolutely amazing pearson i wish i was able to go out there and do this

bigboy4014
May 16th, 2014, 08:45 PM
BigBoy4014, and especially I, wish to apologize to Philip114 for stealing his thunder ... I really don't know who restarted this interest in remaking the EBT ... but we want Philip114 onboard, as well as RPearson, and any others who have an EBT interest.

It is said that no idea is truely original ... and is only an offshoot of something that you once saw someone else do.

Philip114 gave me some great ideas .... and has a caboose perfect for this route ... now it is time for me to give back to him, what I like to do best ... lay track and buildings.

Alot more work to do !

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001_zps6f24e4e2.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_001_zps6f24e4e2.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002_zps6acf22a6.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_002_zps6acf22a6.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_003_zps62d4612a.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_003_zps62d4612a.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_004_zps1683686a.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_004_zps1683686a.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_005_zps5bab8321.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_005_zps5bab8321.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_006_zps6b0ba618.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_006_zps6b0ba618.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_007_zps3fc1bb26.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_007_zps3fc1bb26.jpg.html)

and i want to apologize to you as well , for jumping on you the way i did, i got so caught up in this project that at one point in time it was the only thing i had, and when nothing got done i jumped on you for it when i was just afraid of this wonderful project we've worked on was about to vanish, never once in my life have i ever seen a big project through to completetion, so if you will let me on board, i will see this through with you no matter how long it take.
it was not my intention to make things the way they came out and i hoipe you can forgive me

cascaderailroad
May 17th, 2014, 08:54 AM
Did a little more work on it since I sent you the last CDP ... but still haven't completed track past Rocky Ridge ... A WIP CDP may be available sometime soon ... but it is no where near complete ...

Railwoodman
May 17th, 2014, 09:50 AM
Really nice work :D This route is a lot of work from what I've read, very interested in your progress. :D

bendorsey
May 17th, 2014, 04:04 PM
Looking at those screen shots I don't see all the buildings I made for this area. You might want to go exploring on the DLS for EBT stuff, lol.

Ben

Zeldaboy14
May 17th, 2014, 11:03 PM
Hope to see this continue! It was looking good in November of last year.

Railwoodman
May 18th, 2014, 12:16 AM
While trying to get information on this railroad, I'm running into conflicting news as to its continuing existence. The latest is they are buying the standard rails to a industrial park? With what, thought they were broke and a completely volunteer group. For a source of income to continuing running. To the scrapping of cars. Does any one of you live in the area have a clearer picture as to it's future. I wrongly thought it was a nation landmark, and the Commonwealth was helping. Would be a shame to lose this railroad history.:(

cascaderailroad
May 18th, 2014, 12:09 PM
I think the RR will continue to sit in bankruptcy, and continue to rot, being vandalized by illegal scrappers, I think neither the State or Federal government cares much at present.

The RR sat in dormancy for 30 years, when its shop closed in the 50's ... and I suppose it will again sleep in deep hibernation for years to come.

If not for the the Kovalchick family, it would have never re-opened in the first place.

Railwoodman
May 18th, 2014, 05:13 PM
Well that sucks, just when I thought there was another great railroad to visit. It's gone, guess I waited just a bit to long. But do you know what cars were to be scraped, and to whom if any profit was going too. And I had read the state was going to help, guess that's just wishful thinking.

cascaderailroad
May 18th, 2014, 06:20 PM
The surrounding area has little tourist features, few motels ... What the area needs is a gambling resort to be built by someone like Donald Trump, employing hundreds ... then the RR would see more customers.

Insurance, and boiler inspections, and real estate tax's, cost allot ... It's not like fill er' up with coal & water, and fire her up !

bigboy4014
May 23rd, 2014, 06:05 PM
well i do hope i can see it at some point...maybe having an updated cdp will get me running trains on over what we have so far

bigboy4014
May 23rd, 2014, 06:08 PM
over the years the state says they're going to help out the EBT and every year the EBT asked for funding it never made it past the paper work and the few times it did it was immediately refused

bigboy4014
May 23rd, 2014, 06:11 PM
I think the RR will continue to sit in bankruptcy, and continue to rot, being vandalized by illegal scrappers, I think neither the State or Federal government cares much at present.

The RR sat in dormancy for 30 years, when its shop closed in the 50's ... and I suppose it will again sleep in deep hibernation for years to come.

If not for the the Kovalchick family, it would have never re-opened in the first place.


actually i need to correct this, but the railroad closed in 1956, the kovalchick scrapping company bought the line in early 57 the line reopened for tourist service in 1960 at which point at least a year and a half of restoration efforts were being done in order to reopen the 5 mile portion for the town bicentenial celebration

bigboy4014
May 23rd, 2014, 06:21 PM
i see you finally put the yard right yays!

cascaderailroad
May 23rd, 2014, 06:24 PM
That's an old photo ... the severed track, is still connected, and all the buildings shifted back @ 10', so that the track can run through.

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002_zps1d1ce388.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_002_zps1d1ce388.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_004_zps4aeaee55.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_004_zps4aeaee55.jpg.html)

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_006_zps1b2a75b5.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/cascaderailroad/media/Screen_006_zps1b2a75b5.jpg.html)

No new work has been done on this route in 2014 ... These are all older shots from late 2013

bendorsey
May 23rd, 2014, 07:59 PM
Ah Ha. I see the missing (to me) buildings. Great.

I've started making items for the EBT again and have some questions:

1. Does anyone have a photo of the Robertsdale engine house? Its similar to the one at Mount Union (which I put on the DLS recently) but the rear is different. I have this partially made.

2. Does anyone have a photo of the Midvalley Mine from an angle other then directly across from the chutes? I need to see how I looks from the side. I also have this partially made.

3. I asked some questions about the lumber transfer in the prototype thread. Anyone have answers to my questions there? (yes -I know - I should have put them here, lol). I have the building made.

Thanks,

Ben

Railwoodman
May 24th, 2014, 01:55 PM
Still, It's very well done. I'm reading anything I can on this little railroad. And enjoy all the photos and screenshots. :D Bendorsy's work is always nice to see as to real life. There facebook page seems to indicate work toward a future season, here's hoping:) Again ( cascaderailroad) great work, nice shot.

Matt

cascaderailroad
May 24th, 2014, 02:42 PM
Bendorsey is staright up100% prototypical ... I sometime like to fudge things (pulling, pushing, stretching the details) like adding the trolley 1990's carbarns, in a 1930's route (a collage of era's combined), along with a station #1 track that used to "run through" (that was severed when the old carshop was torn down, and a new one relocated 10' closer, severing the #1 track.

I worked on the route again (for the first time in months) and did 3 hours work ...then added a train ... and got: "Fatal Error" "Terminate" ... the nights work was lost ... lol :hehe:

bendorsey
May 24th, 2014, 03:57 PM
Hi Cascade:

Thanks for the kind words.

Gmax has autobak were it automatically saves every 5 minutes (in my case) for up to 9 separate files then it starts to over write. Does Trainz have something similar? If not it should and I wouldn't this would be difficult on N3V's part to implement.

Ben

bigboy4014
May 26th, 2014, 07:13 PM
Bendorsey is staright up100% prototypical ... I sometime like to fudge things (pulling, pushing, stretching the details) like adding the trolley 1990's carbarns, in a 1930's route (a collage of era's combined), along with a station #1 track that used to "run through" (that was severed when the old carshop was torn down, and a new one relocated 10' closer, severing the #1 track.

I worked on the route again (for the first time in months) and did 3 hours work ...then added a train ... and got: "Fatal Error" "Terminate" ... the nights work was lost ... lol :hehe:

well maybe this will help you do a little bit of expanding, i just recently had ben start working on the midvalley mine and when she is done she will need a place down at the end of the joller branch. i was also thinking of using this for the tipples at rocky-ridge, and evanston which would require it to be released to the dls two other times under different kuids, which i don't think would be a problem on bendorsey's end....ben if it is just email me and let me know, but i do think it would save you time, and i feel like it would be a good replacement for our current mines since no pictures of those two are known to exist, thus saving you and me tons of time trying to find the pictures if they do exist and having to build new structures.

cascaderailroad
May 26th, 2014, 07:24 PM
We still don't have prototypical tunnel portals (which would probably be best as a static scenery item).

I am using: "Auger culvert" and it looks awful, but functions for the time being.

bigboy4014
May 26th, 2014, 07:33 PM
Bendorsey is staright up100% prototypical ... I sometime like to fudge things (pulling, pushing, stretching the details) like adding the trolley 1990's carbarns, in a 1930's route (a collage of era's combined), along with a station #1 track that used to "run through" (that was severed when the old carshop was torn down, and a new one relocated 10' closer, severing the #1 track.

I worked on the route again (for the first time in months) and did 3 hours work ...then added a train ... and got: "Fatal Error" "Terminate" ... the nights work was lost ... lol :hehe:

well maybe this will help you do a little bit of expanding, i just recently had ben start working on the midvalley mine and when she is done she will need a place down at the end of the joller branch. i was also thinking of using this for the tipples at rocky-ridge, and evanston which would require it to be released to the dls two other times under different kuids, which i don't think would be a problem on bendorsey's end....ben if it is just email me and let me know, but i do think it would save you time, and i feel like it would be a good replacement for our current mines since no pictures of those two are known to exist, thus saving you and me tons of time trying to find the pictures if they do exist and having to build new structures.

bendorsey
May 26th, 2014, 09:17 PM
Putting the exact same item on the DLS under 3 different names and kuids seems a bit silly (but that doesn't mean I won't do it). It just seems to me it would be easier for downloaders to clone the original as many times, with as many different names, and with as many different kuids (theirs) as needed.

The lack of photos means some items will have a high degree of "by-guess-and-by-golly" built-in, lol.

Ben

bigboy4014
May 27th, 2014, 06:51 AM
Still, It's very well done. I'm reading anything I can on this little railroad. And enjoy all the photos and screenshots. :D Bendorsy's work is always nice to see as to real life. There facebook page seems to indicate work toward a future season, here's hoping:) Again ( cascaderailroad) great work, nice shot.

Matt

well matt due to my extensive time of having helped with this project, i have amassed a very large collection of photo's track maps, icc evaluations and the like, leaving me with a very knowledgeable understanding on the east broad tops history, if you need anything, let me know and i'll be glad to go through my 1.5 terabytes of stored ebt documentation for you.

bigboy4014
May 27th, 2014, 07:14 AM
We still don't have prototypical tunnel portals (which would probably be best as a static scenery item).

I am using: "Auger culvert" and it looks awful, but functions for the time being

i do think was one of our more clever replacements, while not an actual tunnel portal and a very crude way of using the augher tunnel exit, it did stick with the square portal that was used with 3 out of the 4 tunnel portals found on the EBT

bendorsey
May 27th, 2014, 08:49 AM
Question:

I'm about to put the Midvalley Mine into Trainz for testing and it occurs to me I may have the gauge wrong for the little tram cars that come from the mine to the tipple. I have it as 3 foot gauge but that seems a bit big. 2 foot gauge seems more likely as 3 foot gauge equipment is a bit big for mineshafts.

Anyone know what the gauge actually was?

Thanks,

Ben

bigboy4014
May 28th, 2014, 04:34 PM
Putting the exact same item on the DLS under 3 different names and kuids seems a bit silly (but that doesn't mean I won't do it). It just seems to me it would be easier for downloaders to clone the original as many times, with as many different names, and with as many different kuids (theirs) as needed.

The lack of photos means some items will have a high degree of "by-guess-and-by-golly" built-in, lol.

Ben

well the reason why i suggest this is for operational purposes, if we simply use the "midvalley mine for every tipple on the route when your playing the game and setting an ai route you'll have to figure which mine is which due to the "midvalley mine #1, midvalley mine #2 midvalley mine #3 and so on, to give them different names and place them on the DLS as a different tipple would solve this problem

SantaFe11
July 22nd, 2014, 11:20 PM
Here's the caboose I did. Need to do a low res version.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KHnm-QwJWws/UY0F4tCXJJI/AAAAAAAAFJM/L0J2r1hD31g/w640-h480-no/materials.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-EVYJoS_XRCw/UY0F40xc1iI/AAAAAAAAFJI/DBfPrKHwUDc/w640-h480-no/materials2.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jiOqI7ZBWP8/UY0F42Q7e-I/AAAAAAAAFJg/j9c8zLVGrsw/w640-h480-no/render1.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-raShfV6y22U/UY0F53MYq5I/AAAAAAAAFJQ/bKrpkbFomR0/w640-h480-no/render2.jpg
did you put that on the download station? i would like it for a project.

Railwoodman
July 24th, 2014, 09:35 AM
love that caboose, and this is what EBT posted on FB. just for inspiration sake:Dhttps://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10306314_10152629866771663_7337102619358159545_n.j pg

cascaderailroad
August 11th, 2014, 09:57 PM
This is EBT_Roundhouse 2 by Bendorsey

I put in @ 56 dark gravel splines, so as to allow the placement of the EBT_Ashpit outside the turntable, and the EBT_Inspection Pits inside the roundhouse ... These many splines cover up the dighole, and probably affect the framerates adversely ... And I must do something about this on the final route ... Which is still a WIP.

The original EBT_Roundhouse has a big wide circular apron, and a flat floor inside the roundhouse, that do not allow the placement of the EBT_Ashpit, and EBT_Inspection Pits

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_002_zps45f36823.jpg

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001_zpsec8d291a.jpg

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_001_zpse09e3470.jpg

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/26546514.jpg

I have limited myself to 3 routes, (ALCO Land Classification Hump Yard ... PRR Middle Division-Mount Union to Johnstown ... and the EBT RR) as any more than that is way too many projects for one person to handle

cascaderailroad
August 14th, 2014, 06:36 PM
Is there a KB command, or a rule, where you can rotate a turntable without hitting the big fat arrows with the mouse ... Like with Junctions: "J" for junctions ahead, and "Ctrl+J" for junctions behind ?

Likestrains10
August 21st, 2014, 09:26 AM
Is there a KB command, or a rule, where you can rotate a turntable without hitting the big fat arrows with the mouse ... Like with Junctions: "J" for junctions ahead, and "Ctrl+J" for junctions behind ?

I've heard of ways like that, but I don't know for sure...

cascaderailroad
August 21st, 2014, 09:28 AM
BTW ... I resumed some more work on the EBT route, and have the gradients in from Mount Union to Robertsdale, and Shade Gap to Neelyton.

Only some particular portions in the mountains have a 2.5% grade, and the rest is between 0.10% and 1.00%

Must work on the Mount Union yard and the PRR mainline interchange.

dnevans8
August 21st, 2014, 09:48 AM
Is there a KB command, or a rule, where you can rotate a turntable without hitting the big fat arrows with the mouse ... Like with Junctions: "J" for junctions ahead, and "Ctrl+J" for junctions behind ?

There is a move turntable command, MoveTurntable,<kuid2:131986:180156:1>, that is used in conjunction with the input table rule.

You have to include an entry in the input table:

turntable,turntable name,no of stops

The first word turntable must be in lowercase, the name must be exactly as on the route and the number of stops is as visible on the turntable.

Incidentally did you know you can hit the turntable arrow multiple times to make it move more than one stop.

bigboy4014
September 29th, 2014, 06:28 PM
oi cascade ya need to check you skype, i tried to get in touch with you but you haven't answered

cascaderailroad
September 30th, 2014, 11:14 PM
With the majority of NG RR's being 3 foot gauge ... There sure aren't allot of tracks to choose from ... Most look absolutely terrible, and have a kinky repeat rate in turnouts, especially all the Man6 tracks.

I need a standard gauge, a dual gauge, and a narrow gauge, track that looks fairly realistic (as MP Track Wood v2 and MP Rusty look fairly good, and bend fantasticly).

bigboy4014
October 1st, 2014, 03:59 PM
reposting from earlier with correct punctuation. Indeed it is a shame unless one of us wins the lottery, all we can do is pray that kovalchick will realize he is expecting to much from those that want to lease the line and operate it and Back down on his Restrictionsm such as he doesn't want the trackage extended at All, Which is what many leasers want to do.
I did read that at least one leaser wanted to start work on Restoring as far south as saltillo, and North to shirleysburg, and kovalchick Said no

was in a major rush when i originally wrote this, i do hope this clears it up

bigboy4014
October 1st, 2014, 04:06 PM
With the majority of NG RR's being 3 foot gauge ... There sure aren't allot of tracks to choose from ... Most look absolutely terrible, and have a kinky repeat rate in turnouts, especially all the Man6 tracks.

I need a standard gauge, a dual gauge, and a narrow gauge, track that looks fairly realistic (as MP Track Wood v2 and MP Rusty look fairly good, and bend fantasticly).

yes someone please help out with this, in the past i have tried to get someone to help me out with it, but it seems there aren't many people who are willing to do track work for others.

we would like to have track that accurately resembles what the EBT had on the line

their process of track work was to tamper boney over the ties to hide them underground, this helped preserve the ties and prevent them from shifting due to flood areas cause by the winter thaws, this way of doing it left only the rails showing if i'm not mistaken the line was 150lb rail set to a 36in gauge with the exception of standard/dual gauge in mount union but with the same principle in the use of boney.

also as well we'd like to have this rail look good which means a little more 3d than what trainz normally has to offer (i call it the steel band effect) meaning where it looks like the trains are running on a flat strip of steel, what cascade has is a good set of track and more realistic than most of what can be found, but not accurate

if anyone can help with this please step forward because we'd really like your help

bigboy4014
October 1st, 2014, 04:13 PM
yes someone please help out with this, in the past i have tried to get someone to help me out with it, but it seems there aren't many people who are willing to do track work for others.

we would like to have track that accurately resembles what the EBT had on the line

their process of track work was to tamper boney over the ties to hide them underground, this helped preserve the ties and prevent them from shifting due to flood areas cause by the winter thaws, this way of doing it left only the rails showing if i'm not mistaken the line was 150lb rail set to a 36in gauge with the exception of standard/dual gauge in mount union but with the same principle in the use of boney.

also as well we'd like to have this rail look good which means a little more 3d than what trainz normally has to offer (i call it the steel band effect) meaning where it looks like the trains are running on a flat strip of steel, what cascade has is a good set of track and more realistic than most of what can be found, but not accurate

if anyone can help with this please step forward because we'd really like your help

also forgot to mention that to make whoever wants to build this track life easier, i have everything you could possibly need to model the track (data wise not texture wise)

cascaderailroad
October 1st, 2014, 07:52 PM
I am really satisfied with chunky mesh, MP Wood Track v2 by philskene
Josefpav built all the rest of the MP Tracks, and they curve fabulously, and have a great looking rail texture.

It must be easier to build MP chunky mesh tracks like his ... but I have never seen any other good quality chunky mesh tracks that have a rail like his, and do not kink at all in turnouts.

Almost all other tracks out there kink horribly in turnouts.

MP Rusty is probably what I am looking for, as the EBT probably did not run enough trains to shine up the rail head.

If someone could build a 36" NG "MP Rusty"
And a dual gauge (SG/NG) "MP Rusty"

I would be very happy with that type of chunky mesh tracks.

This route is coming along rather nicely, and I will be releasing a freeware WIP before Christmas.

bigboy4014
October 2nd, 2014, 05:30 PM
I am really satisfied with chunky mesh, MP Wood Track v2 by philskene
Josefpav built all the rest of the MP Tracks, and they curve fabulously, and have a great looking rail texture.

It must be easier to build MP chunky mesh tracks like his ... but I have never seen any other good quality chunky mesh tracks that have a rail like his, and do not kink at all in turnouts.

Almost all other tracks out there kink horribly in turnouts.

MP Rusty is probably what I am looking for, as the EBT probably did not run enough trains to shine up the rail head.

If someone could build a 36" NG "MP Rusty"
And a dual gauge (SG/NG) "MP Rusty"

I would be very happy with that type of chunky mesh tracks.

This route is coming along rather nicely, and I will be releasing a freeware WIP before Christmas.

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/MountUnionWestEnd_zps67af282f.jpghttp://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/MountUnionEastEnd_zps532fee49.jpg


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/RockhillFurnaceNorthEnd_zpsc6bf354a.jpghttp://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/RockhillFurnaceSouthEnd_zps5ec040b8.jpg

holy crap mount union looks good!

bigboy4014
October 4th, 2014, 01:49 PM
would love to see actualy pictures of the yard if you don't mind, post them here

cascaderailroad
October 4th, 2014, 03:57 PM
As there are no textures, no flora, nor buildings, and the track is still hanging up in the air, floating 10m above the ground, and is presently ungraded ... There is nothing to see in a screenshot ... Nothing to see ... Move along, Move along ... Nothing to see !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrVysjmUgE
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrVysjmUgE)http://southpark.cc.com/clips/152190/mall-cops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSjK2Oqrgic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir3Vhv-SsPw

http://www.hark.com/clips/wszpqzwsys-nothing-to-see

bigboy4014
October 4th, 2014, 09:16 PM
As there are no textures, no flora, nor buildings, and the track is still hanging up in the air, floating 10m above the ground, and is presently ungraded ... There is nothing to see in a screenshot ... Nothing to see ... Move along, Move along ... Nothing to see !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrVysjmUgE
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrVysjmUgE)http://southpark.cc.com/clips/152190/mall-cops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSjK2Oqrgic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir3Vhv-SsPw

http://www.hark.com/clips/wszpqzwsys-nothing-to-see
bahahaha nice cascade, stillwould be ice to see regardless of what stage it is in

bigboy4014
October 4th, 2014, 09:20 PM
and i'm always wondered how you get the track to hover like that would make building things so much easier for me to learn