World Origin

[keithmj]

Hi All..Trying to figure out how to use the world origin. I started a new route with one section and set the world origin with a Latitude of 27.81061 N and Longitude of 82.65663 W or my home coordinates. But everytime I go into the world origin it has changed by itself to 27 59.999 and 82 59.999 How do I keep it from changing to what I want it set at? Then I want to add trig stations to run my track..Thanks for any info on this..Cheers..Keithmj

 

[geophil]

Hi All..Trying to figure out how to use the world origin. I started a new route with one section and set the world origin with a Latitude of 27.81061 N and Longitude of 82.65663 W or my home coordinates. But everytime I go into the world origin it has changed by itself to 27 59.999 and 82 59.999 How do I keep it from changing to what I want it set at?

Enter your coordinates in degrees and minutes. Minutes may have three decimal places: 27° 48.637' N, 82° 39.398' W

geophil

 

[keithmj]

reply?

Enter your coordinates in degrees and minutes. Minutes may have three decimal places: 27° 48.637' N, 82° 39.398' W

geophil

Thanks..But I do that and it keeps changing back. to 27 59.999
Keithmj

 

[keithmj]

Figured out..

Thanks..But I do that and it keeps changing back. to 27 59.999
Keithmj

Got it figured out..If I put in 27. 78.643 or 27. 78643 or 27. 786 it comes out 27. 5999 I have to put in 27. 7.8643 to get the correct coordinate of 27.78643 to show..Thanks..Keithmj

 

[ChrisF]

World Origin and Trig Stations problem

Hi All..Trying to figure out how to use the world origin. I started a new route with one section and set the world origin with a Latitude of 27.81061 N and Longitude of 82.65663 W or my home coordinates. But everytime I go into the world origin it has changed by itself to 27 59.999 and 82 59.999 How do I keep it from changing to what I want it set at? Then I want to add trig stations to run my track..Thanks for any info on this..Cheers..Keithmj

G'day,

The above problem reminds me of my frustration I'm having when trying to use the World Origin / Trig Station tools in Trainz, so I'm hoping that some of you might be able to help now that the Forums are back up.

I'm trying to understand how to use the "World Origin" and "Trig
Stations". As is usual with my requests, I often wonder if it is me that is
just not 'getting it' (understanding what's printed in the manual), or whether I'm just expecting it to work in a specific way (possibly through lack of knowledge) and am disappointed when it doesn't work?

So, this is how I 'think' it should work:

1. Place a "World Origin" marker anywhere on a Trainz layout - I usually
place it somewhere significant (so that it's easy to find) - so I usually place it near to a station.;

2. I then input the co-ordinates of that station in Lat. & Long. as stated
in the manual.

3. Place a Trig Station on the layout; - [Now 'I think' that in placing
these, one should then be able to move them around on the baseboard until the numbers change to mark the required Lat. & Long. that one requires];

4. And therefore, this is where it starts falling apart - for me... The
manual says to 'Name' the Trig Station by inputting the co-ordinates, but
the 'Name' input screen does not seem to accept full-stops to distinguish the various parts of the data being input. I've even tried NOT in-putting
data, and then just move the Trig Station around on the baseboard, but this doesn't seem to work either, as the Lat. & Long. numbers never seen to tally with where I 'think' the location should be.

I'm trying to setup a prototypical layout with all the correct geographical data (yes, manually) and it would be a great boon to be able to make sense out of these tools which have been included.

Any help would be gratefully received.

Cheers and line clear,

ChrisF.

 

[Mr.Den]

Give the Lat/Long reader a look:

Lat/Long reader
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]Type:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]Trackside Accessories[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]Downloaded:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]18428[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]File Size:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]29.07kb[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]File Type:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial].cdp[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]Created by:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]martinvk[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]Date:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]17th December 2004[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]Version:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]TRS2004[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]KUID2:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]70337:23016:2[/FONT]

It displays the latitude and longitude when you place it on a map.

 

[ChrisF]

World Origin and Trig Stations

G'day everyone,

I have a question about Surveyor in Trainz 2004 & 2006 and now that the Forums are up and running again I'm hoping that someone might be able to help.

I'm trying to get my head around the use of the "World Origin" and "Trig
Stations". As is usual with my requests, I often wonder if it is me that is
not 'getting it' (understanding what's printed in the manual), or whether
I'm just expecting it to work in a specific way (possibly through lack of
knowledge) and am disappointed when it doesn't work?

So, this is how I 'think' it should work:

1. Place a "World Origin" marker anywhere on a Trainz layout - I usually
place it somewhere significant (so that it's easy to find) - this is
usually near a station.;

2. I then input the co-ordinates of that station in Lat. & Long. as stated
in the manual.

3. Place a Trig Station on the layout; - [Now 'I think' that in placing
these one should then be able to move them around on the baseboard until the numbers change to mark the Lat. & Long. that one requires];

4. And therefore, this is where it starts falling apart for me... The
manual says to 'Name' the Trig Station by inputting the co-ordinates, but
the 'Name' input screen does not seem to accept full-stops to distinguish
the various parts of the data being input. I've even tried NOT in-putting
data, and then just move the Trig Station around on the baseboard, but this doesn't seem to work either, as the Lat. & Long. numbers never seen to tally with where I 'think' the location should be.

Have you tried using these items? Have you been successful? I'm trying to setup a prototypical layout with all the correct geographical data (yes,
manually) and it would be a great boon to be able to make sense out of
these tools which have been included.

Hope you can help.

Cheers and line clear,

ChrisF.

 

[ChrisF]

Give the Lat/Long reader a look:

Lat/Long reader
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]Type:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]Trackside Accessories[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]Downloaded:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]18428[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]File Size:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]29.07kb[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]File Type:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial].cdp[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]Created by:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]martinvk[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]Date:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]17th December 2004[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]Version:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]TRS2004[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]KUID2:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]70337:23016:2[/FONT]

It displays the latitude and longitude when you place it on a map.

G'day Martin,

I downloaded the Lat/Long Reader and it installed okay. There must still be a problem though as it appears in the list in Surveyor, but it does not display a preview picture and cannot be selected. Any clues?

Getting back to my original question - is does the fact that the Lat/Long reader had to be made indicate that the original Trainz tool not work as intended?

Cheers,

ChrisF.

 

[geophil]

Whatever you do with the World Origin and Trig Stations, be cautious with the interpretation of the coordinates. Keep in mind the earth is not a flat plane and there are many, many ways to project lat/long to a Cartesian system like a Trainz route map. Unless your data source for the map or orthophoto uses exactly the same projection and reference sphere or ellipsoid as the one in Trainz your measurements will include a significant systematic error. A few hundred metres will not be uncommon.

geophil

 

[KayTee]

World Origin v GPS

Hi,

I've been playing with the world origin and trig points with the intention of producing a fairly accurate real scale model of my home area but the trig points never tie up close enough with the real world, fair enough really this is a railroad simulator after all and not GPS mapping software.

I've decided the most accurate results will come from setting the world origin and then referencing all directions, distances and altitudes from there based on readings from my gps and its software.

Spin off benefits are that I get to go out and play on my motorbike in order to get the readings I need!

Ken T

 

[SuperFudd]

keithmj,

What you are missing is, there are no more tha 60 minutes, thus the default to 59.999 when you enter more than 60.

 

[martinvk]

G'day Martin,

I downloaded the Lat/Long Reader and it installed okay. There must still be a problem though as it appears in the list in Surveyor, but it does not display a preview picture and cannot be selected. Any clues?

Getting back to my original question - is does the fact that the Lat/Long reader had to be made indicate that the original Trainz tool not work as intended?

Cheers,

ChrisF.

Does it still not work in your route? What version / build are you using?

It's not that the Trig station didn't work, it's that I couldn't easily see the co-ordinates as I moved it from place to place. So I made a Surveyor only object with BIG display text. And being Surveyor only, I can leave them in my route without seeing them in Driver while I test a new section of track. My new series of track guides for 3.5, 4 and 5m spacing (kuid2 70337 23083 1 etc.) also show their co-ordinate location on a small trackside sign. Not as easy to read but sometimes useful never the less.

 

[lazersgm]

i am having a problem placing items using the real world positions also. i have a dem 10m map and a topo map from the usgs. i used tranzdem to make the base boards and to set the world cords. but when i use the place marker [FONT=Verdana, Arial]70337:23016:2 it shows up about 600+ meters away from where it should be. i referenced google earth and there dem data is off but the pictures from the stalite data does match up with my dem and topo data. so i think the baseboard is correct. the world object matches the dem topo and google earth. so i don't know whats wrong.
[/FONT]

 

[WileeCoyote]

Theres always asking a local resident where you are, they might know.

WileeCoyote

 

[geophil]

i am having a problem placing items using the real world positions also. i have a dem 10m map and a topo map from the usgs. i used tranzdem to make the base boards and to set the world cords. but when i use the place marker [FONT=Verdana, Arial]70337:23016:2 it shows up about 600+ meters away from where it should be. i referenced google earth and there dem data is off but the pictures from the stalite data does match up with my dem and topo data. so i think the baseboard is correct. the world object matches the dem topo and google earth. so i don't know whats wrong.
[/FONT]

I suggest to locate the World Origin object on your baseboards. Its coordinates in lat/long are given in the config.txt file. You will find the World Origin marker at the centre of the baseboard. Then place your lat/long reader close to the World Origin object. Do the coordinates match here?

How far away from the World Origin object have you been when you noted that 600m difference? Keep in mind that TransDEM processes all geo-gata with the UTM projection. But we don't know what kind of internal mapping model is used by Trainz, which feeds the lat/long reader. It will surely be a different projection. The gap between TransDEM based mapping and the lat/long reader findings will increase with the distance to the World Origin object. Nevertheless, 600m seems quite a lot to me.

geophil

 

[lazersgm]

the bridge i am using for a ref is at

N 41 deg 19'50'.70" in TranzDEM
N 41 deg 19'50.87" in google earth
n 41 deg 19.857" in trainz

maybe i am not converting the cords right? the trainz reading is different as it goes .001 to .999 which i am not sure how to convert to the others.

Trainz World Origin = N 41° 20.124' W 71° 58.884

i looked at the cords of the world object in tranzdem and with the raster map. it looks to be off by about 1 sec.

this has got me so confused i think i am going nuts. lol.

i reset the world point in trainz to the location of the bridge and looked at another bridge that was 530 meters away and was off by .1 sec north and west. is .1 sec much distance? i am not sure.

think i will just give up. the ref from my geo map overlay is dead on. but that map is from 1968. back then the rail system was very different then it is now.

thanks for the help.

 

[geophil]

0.1 sec is about 2-3 meters.

41° 19.857' is 41° 19' 51.42", so that's about 0.6 sec or 12-18m off. But I understand that's close to the (relocated) world origin object.

BTW, if you move the world origin object, TransDEM will have problems to add UTM tiles or track splines later. I hope you have made a back-up of your route or have already transferred all geo-referenced data you need.

geophil

 

[seeseeme]

Hi All..Trying to figure out how to use the world origin. I started a new route with one section and set the world origin with a Latitude of 27.81061 N and Longitude of 82.65663 W or my home coordinates. But everytime I go into the world origin it has changed by itself to 27 59.999 and 82 59.999 How do I keep it from changing to what I want it set at? Then I want to add trig stations to run my track..Thanks for any info on this..Cheers..Keithmj

I have played with the World Origin marker a lot, but not the Trig Station.

From an old thread on the old forum the way you use or interpret the figures for the world marker is somewhat different to what you find. As geophil shows in his last post the figures of "41° 19.857' becomes 41° 19' 51.42" . To do this I have always (using keithmj figures) multiply the decimal figure by 60, so this would give me 27 48.6366 N (.81061 x 60 = 48.6366) and 82 39.3978 W (.65663 x 60 = 39.3978). I then enter these figures of into the World Origin Marker and after that I use martinvk's Lat/Long reader. From my own knowledge of the area I am using these figures in they seem very very correct. If we look at geophil's example and multiply anything behind the decimal point we get .857 x 60 = 51.42 and then the final answer is 41 19 51.42.

Hope this helps

Craig

 

[seeseeme]

G'day Martin,

I downloaded the Lat/Long Reader and it installed okay. There must still be a problem though as it appears in the list in Surveyor, but it does not display a preview picture and cannot be selected. Any clues?

Getting back to my original question - is does the fact that the Lat/Long reader had to be made indicate that the original Trainz tool not work as intended?

Cheers,

ChrisF.

Chris, and anyone else, have a read of this thread here as there is an error in the reader for 2006. It works fine in 2004 with the error but not in 2006.

As martinvk points out, his reader is very easy to see, even at a reasonable distance .

Craig

 

[lazersgm]

any way to include a script to make the calculations to other formats? i guess i could switch out and use the calculator but it would be nice not to have to do that.