Why did Amtrak scrap every P30CH and almost every SDP40F?

[Blutorse4792]

Why not save at least one Pooch?
Isn't there only one SDP40F preserved as well?
Save some of your equipment for the future, Amtrak! At least some museums got a few F40PH engines!

 

[Tokkyu40]

I hadn't heard about this. That would be a shame.

Claude

 

[LVman]

Its Because Amtrak is run by the Government, alias, they are always looking for new power(since the government is controlled by weathy greedy freaks... ) so, once they found these engines were no-longer availible to provide the service needed, they were scrapped.
Same situation with the F40PHs. They were reliable locomotives, until newer ones emerged onto the market, such as the F59PH and PHI, and the P42-8s
Since these were more readily availible, (production wise, and parts availibility wise) Amtrak adopted these newer units to be the new lead, and face, of Amtrak.
HTH
Sean

 

[Kaleb]

Most railways are government run in Oz, and we still have preserved locos and older diesels (44 and 48 classes, they date from the 60's) in service!

 

[K4driver]

I was gonna say the same thing as Lvman LET THE CLASS ONE RAILROADS HANDLE PASSENGER SERVICE!!!

 

[slave-driver]

The scraping of the SDP40F Wasn't totaly due to newer equipment being available. Amtrak had a series of accidents (Thats nothing new:hehe in higher than normal numbers involving the first coaches immediatly behind there SDP40Fs were they (Amtrak and the NTSB) couldn't figue out what caused the accidents. Differant coaches, differant locations, differant weather conditions. The only thing that was the same was there beening a SDP40F immediatly in front of the coach that derailed. for some reason the SD40Fs in freight survice didn't have that problem. I can't remember were I herd that weather it was in a train magazine or in a documentary. I think it was in Model Railroader many years ago. The funny thing was that lines like Metra that used the SDP40F didn't have the same problems that Amtrak had. After Amtrak switched out the SDP40Fs for the newer F40PHs the un explained accidents stopped.


Bill

 

[RooRocz]

Amtrak is a bit, err... strapped for cash, we might say. It's a miracle the E60 and E44s were preserved.

 

[Blutorse4792]

Metra actually used EMD F40C's, not SDP40Fs.

 

[slave-driver]

Metra actually used EMD F40C's, not SDP40Fs.

Thank you. I stand corrected.
Were I got that info was from "The Contemporary Diesel Spotter's Guide" pg. 103. There is more info their but I gave the general gist of it.

Bill

 

[crman123]

SDP40F's derailment problems were due to the nature of the locomotive, the higher speeds of the passenger trains made their trucks unstable and prone to derailment.

 

[Michael_Evans]

Didn't Amtrak use to own some ALCOs and E units? What ever happened to them? I know a B E unit is owned by the P&W but what about the A units?

P.S. I wish Amtrak didn't decide on a single paint job, the old Amtraks used to look like rainbows with cars from many railroads

 

[Tokkyu40]

I was gonna say the same thing as Lvman LET THE CLASS ONE RAILROADS HANDLE PASSENGER SERVICE!!!

I'm in favor of a new corporation to operate a new high speed system (preferably privately owned). You can't really mix freight and passenger traffic on the same track. One or both suffer due to conflicting requirements.

Claude

 

[backyard]

It's about politics, big business, lawyers and insurance companies...

8) The fate of the SDP40F, involves track-work, in specific locations. Back then, the loco used a steam generator, and a huge water-tank in the rear of the locomotive, caused and unusual sway, which played hell in some seriously deteriorated track(L & N, SCL in Florida, and a particular out-of-gauge diamond out west).

The cause of derailment is attributed to several other factors, one being the type of six-axle truck, however, removing the water tank, steam generator, and adding a porch, the Santa Fe used the locomotive for freight many years. EMD also kept a test bead locomotive at the LaGrange, Ill plant(The Home Of the Diesel Locomotive!).

Yes, Trains mag, has the info, if it is not archived, in the forums.

The GE U28CG and U30CG locomotives, were well worn out by the only owner, Santa Fe, on crack passenger trains, and also freight, by the time the National Railroad Passenger Agency came to be, and no service or parts were included in the NRPA=Amtrak plan. So they were scrapped. They were the only six-axle GE locomotives to use the space between the electrical cabinet, and air filtration cab, for a steam ginny.

The F40PH? Please!...That loco had a special throttle, which allowed the prime mover to drop to run 6 in stations, and sidings, when traction was not needed, however, like the New Jersey Transit U34CH, when it pulled passenger cars, the prime mover always ran in run 8-wide open.

During the lifespan of the F40PH, it was rebuilt several times, and acquired a sound not unlike the 327 Chevy!

Dependability, is the factor which retired the F40PH.

Dependability, is still an issue with the Genesis Series!

I'm glad that EMD continued on Further with the Series 710V12 prime mover in the F59PH, and look!...it's got four axles!

Also, a Series 710V16 prime mover was used with the F69PH, only two were built, but it has a unique car-body, and continues to run.

 

[backyard]

...addendum...

8) The Amtrak, was a consummate user of EMD parts, because of standardization, and the only ALCo's owned, had been re-engined with EMD prime movers(typical of any line-haul ALCo of the period).

No PA's.

Yes, many E-units were acquired, and F-units, to get the business done.

The E-units, were A-1-A+A-1-A, which did not run on trains, such a the Santa Fe Super Chief, Santa Fe Chief and Santa Fe EL Capitan. F-units were needed to pull those heavy trains over mountain grades. So, the E's were used mainly on Eastern United States of America passenger service(flatter grades).

Then, the advent of Head End Power generators(HEP), brought a major upgrade to the cars, as well as a need for power units to supply traction, and electric power, hence the F40PH(Diesel-electric motive power).

F=Cowl Carbody
40=pronounced "Four-O" by EMD, Series 645V16 3000 hp.
P=Passenger
H=Head End Power

 

[mjolnir]

8) The fate of the SD40PH, ... the Santa Fe used the locomotive for freight many years.

Only Amtrak ever operated the SDP40F; while the Santa Fe operated locomotives that appeared to be similar (as did the Milwaukee Road), the ATSF and MILW units were in fact F 45's, not SDP40F's, though they looked similar. Neither the ATSF nor MILW units were ever acquired by Amtrak.

ns

 

[LVman]

8) *snippet* and the only ALCo's owned, had been re-engined with EMD prime movers...*snippet*

Actually, you are Incorrect.
ALCo RS3 Unit #138, which was former NH 529 (which is in her original Colours at the New England Museum of Rail, has kept her ALCo Internals her whole life. He was never re-engined with a EMD 567 or 645. She kept the straight 244 that ALCo installed in 1950 something .
Cheers,
Sean

*Thanks to Rail Picture Archives.net for the photographs*

 

[backyard]

...I stand corrected...

8) Thanks Sean, I used a re-engined RS3 from the Sanford, Florida Auto Train terminal, as my reasoning for the incorrect post.

The inclusion of the New Haven unit, is definitely noteworthy, as the possible acquisition of parts, would be above and beyond the bounds of Amtrak. Also thank you for the beautiful pictures of a steam ginny equipped RS3, in the venerable colors of the New Haven Railroad, photog noted!

Possibly, Amtrak new of a cash money source, even if it was donated to a non-profit org.(tax write-off).

NS, you caught a typo, when I wrote SD40PH, I must have been listening to [Adult Swim]!

Noticed and edited.

I meant SDP40F, although I think Santa Fe called them SDF40's. Yes, they were aquired from EMD, and rebuilt with front porches, to allow switching. They were equipped with the Series 16V645 engine, 3000hp.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=84326

The locomotive you refer to is the F45, yes owned by the Milwaukee Road, as well as the Santa Fe, which also owned the FP45. Those locomotives, used the Series 20V645 engine, 3600hp, same as the SD45, cowl car-body, P-meaning Passenger-steam generator equipped.

 

[mjolnir]

Correcting my own post, in which I referred to locomotive owned and used in passenger service by ATSF and MILW as F-45's, as someone else has pointed out, these were, in fact FP-45's. The principal difference between the F-45 and FP 45 was that the FP 45 was several feet longer than the F 45, land had facilities for train heat and power. ATSF and BN operated the F-45 new in freight service, and though they were acquired second hand by a number of other lines, including MRL, NYSW, WC, and WSOR.

As to Claude's comment

I'm in favor of a new corporation to operate a new high speed system (preferably privately owned). You can't really mix freight and passenger traffic on the same track. One or both suffer due to conflicting requirements.

This statement is proven wrong by the fact that in the U.S., for 100 years, nearly every major railroad mixed not only freight and passenger traffic on the same track, but threw LTL and express into the mix, as well. I concede that on lines where density warranted, the conflicting requirements were eased by double, and in rare cases, quadruple, and in even rarer cases, sextuple (2, 4, and 6) tracks.



ns

 

[nikos1]

yes they were SDP40F's, after they were retired 18 were traded to Santa Fe for 48 smaller units such as switchers,geeps and CF7's.
Santa Fe added front platforms and cut notches in the nose to ease boarding.
in 2001 they were retired, all but one was scrapped, the lucky survivor was BNSF 6976 the specially painted Maersk Sealand although it was inoperable and had to be shoved around by NS 3329.
In 2003 the unit was purchased by Doyle McCormack for preservation
a good site about these locos
http://atsf.railfan.net/cowls/sdp40f.html

 

[Sourdough]

I was gonna say the same thing as Lvman LET THE CLASS ONE RAILROADS HANDLE PASSENGER SERVICE!!!

You make it sound as if they are being prevented from doing so.....the class 1 railroads don't do passenger service because they lose money on it. The government doesn't subsidize Amtrak because they want to control it....they do it because if they didn't, it wouldn't exist.