Tram refuses to go over 10 km/h @@

gisa

Routelayer Ordinaire...
Hi All,


I've set up a mini tram route of sorts, with invisible signalling and a 50 km/h signboard past the portal (plenty of room for it to go out and recognize the signal) but the tram only goes at about 8-10 km/h for the whole route!



I have a few of Andi06's type 2 tram stops but yeah, I'm baffled as to why the tram refuses to go at any speed faster than 10 km/h (and why it overshoots the stop by almost a full tram length as well!).

Could anyone offer me any suggestions as to how to make the tram go at about 50 and to force the tram to stop properly at the actual tram stop? :)

:wave:

Gisa ^^
 
I Don't know if this will help !

Can't quite make out witch tram that is but had this trouble with Trams from Tramtrainz, Ptrams and the german site.

In some cases changing the Config to a different one worked but in most it did nothing, some people think its something about the gmax file.

There is so many things it could be wrong engine config for this tram using one of a lower power on a bigger tram, the weight of the tram has been set to high even with the right config you can see this is not going to work and that is just for starters.

As for the stops this is a intresting one, not all trams seem to be compatible with all stops, we have gound this not just with trams but with buses as well. its matter of testing and find the one that works with the trams you want to use on a layot.

Sorry I could not help more

Tom
 
Hi Gisa.

As co-configurator of our Lisbon Tram set (Os Eléctricos de Lisboa), It seems to me that the problem underlies on the enginespec asset which moves them.
  • Some users informed us (I think expert 'Narrow minded Tram' Tom was one of them ;) ) that our trams ran very slow and eventually the only solution found to that was based on using other faster enginespec from other creators.
As for the tram stations.
  • It happens with every kind of them, Andi's or iceman2117's. Single unit trams go past the stations, but if you set a two-unit consist, it will do. Test it. ;) It has to do with the TRS station.gs inner code, not creators' fault at all.
Take care,

Alberte :wave:
 
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I'm also having a similar problem with a couple of DMUs on a shuttle service. It's a 3-car consist, and it always overshoots by an entire car length. It appears that the AI sees the first carriage as the locomotive, and stops it away from the station. I've gotten around this by putting insignificant buffers somewhere in the middle of the platform at terminating stations, but the problem remains at standard platforms.
 
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Thank you both for your input! I could try out several other trams, but these one's are from both tramtrainz and ptram.eu . I love the look of them and I love to use them but yeah, I might have to find a way to adjust the engine spec. I think I'll have to try to do this via trainz car tweaker as I downloaded something like 200 trams from those sites. :D

Overall, building this tram part was extremely difficult and I'm nowhere near done. Further, I have problems in getting everything lined up in terms of height and incorporating them with andi06's street kit. I really really wish they had made multi lane one way roads and matching intersections...

Again, thank you both for your input! :) In the meantime, I might just drive the trams around and play around with the enginespec a bit in the near future (as most of those trams share the same engine spec afaik).

:wave:

Gisa ^^
 
You may find that if the mass of the tram is specified as (realistically) small in the engine spec config, the speed is reduced to a crawl.

Helicopters would have a mass of 2000 kg or less, I had to increase the mass in the engine spec config for my helicopter models, to something above 10,000 kg to get them to fly at full speed.

Ian
 
The mass tag is in the loco's config. I had problems with a small steam loco with a mass of abt 11000 kgs. I worked fine under user control - cab or dcc - but when the AI took over top speed was about 12 mph and it took forever to accelerate to that. Increasing the mass value cured the problem but wasn't it's actual mass which can have unrealistic performance in cab mode. For me that's a bug in the AI's physics code.

Bob Pearson
 
Check your inbox Vulcan. :)

I've another question for you gents (and I suppose this one is obvious)

I'm going to try tinkering with the mass in the config.txt files, but what exactly would I change and what should I change it to?

Most of the tags I'm seeing in the engine config.txt files are similar to this:

mass {
scale 1
fuel 750000
}

Oddly enough the one I want to change has this tag, with a funky equation :confused:

mass {
scale 1
fuel "6.2156e+006"
}

That might explain why it wont seem to accelerate or get up to speed easily...still what should I change to get a more suitable result? :)

Any input is appreciated as always!

:wave:

Gisa ^^

EDIT: based on what Bob just posted, that means it'd be a catch 22 to change the config (as I like to drive some of the models myself of course). I think I'll just substitute another tram in that place (I used the pcc streetcar which was literally like a *red rocket* [that's the Toronto's Transit Commision's Motto [ride the red rocket]) instead, or test out varying trams to see what will work. ^^
 
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Sorry, as Bob says, the mass tag is in the main tram config file. The helicopters use a mass of 5000kg to get them to work reasonably, instead of an actual mass of about 2000kg.

mass 5000

When working on TRS2006, I did ask Chris Bergman the Auran programmer about the problem, and I believe they were trying to get consistent speeds under dcc control for all loco masses, light masses required a code adjustment.

As this was done before AI driving was included in Trainz, this introduced problems later for AI driving as you have noticed.

Ian
 
Tried a test myself last night

Hi Ladies & Gentlemen,

Last night i changed the mass of the Astra's the front and back from 8000 to 32000 and the middle from 7600 to 30200 basically multiplyed each x 4

The result is the tram now tops out at 80KPH witch seems resonable for this little tram ....

Hi Alberte ...
I might try the same trick with your trams, put the orginal config back and change the mass x 4 looking at what has been written here and my test on a Astra.... will tell you the result as it might be the right solution, no my idears did not work out.


tell me what you think....

Tom
 
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Do keep us posted...I'm curious to know if this will solve the problem!

After some thinking, I've decided I'd like to make the fixes but the problem is (as I stated earlier) I've probably downloaded about 200 varying trams and well...unless knows of a fairly time efficient shortcut, I could see myself spending almost a day going into each one and changing the mass by hand. @@

I also wanted to mention something to you guys as a further aside. Do you remember I said that I'd substitute the TTC PCC streetcar in there? Well, it accelerates very well...in fact TOO well in that it literally shoots out like a rocket from the stops and has a hard time getting close to a speed limit because of it's *hyper* state. I know it's a simulator and that nothing is perfect but I don't want my poor passengers to go through the rear of the tram onto the street! :hehe:

I suppose this will involve some trial and error in these configs...anyhow if anyone has any ideas as to how to batch edit a mass amount of configs, please be so kind as to let me know. :)

:wave:

Gisa ^^
 
Alberte, you are the MAN! :)

I just downloaded this program now and will try it out shortly! I wish I had known about it sooner! The lesson to be learned is to ask questions first before trying to do it the hard way! :D

Hopefully, this program will also allow me to organize my rolling stock/objects into categories that are much easier to recognize!

Many thanks Alberte! :)

:wave:

Gisa ^^
 
Alberte, you are the MAN! :)

:hehe: I'm the man and Dean the Emperor! :hehe:

Going aside, Tom 'broad-minded tram person' tells me (and users of our Lisbon Tram set (Os Eléctricos de Lisboa) ) that after changing their mass parameter to:

Code:
mass                            51000
(That is to say, increasing our original X 4)

the trams are doing 48 kph which is quite realistic for these old tramcars.

Thank you very much, Tom, for testing that. ;)

Alberte :wave:
 
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I am just about finish running the BK ReplaceEM (very VERY handy freeware program IMHO!) to replace the mass of the trams by a factor of 4. I'm picky in some ways, but I don't need a tram that can do an exact speed per se: I just want it to accelerate properly and to be able to do (generally speaking) the things I want it to do. That and the fact (that I am assuming) that trams rarely go over 50/60 km/h in a medium/high density zoned area (the part I'm modelling at the moment is exactly that) so if my tram can only go up to 48 km/h, it's not a big deal. What is a big deal to me is if it can actually get up to that speed in about 10 seconds or so (which I think would fall in roughly with the trams in real life [at least for the one's back home for me]).

Anyhow, I'd strongly recommend using that program mentioned above (it would have many other uses aside from us trainz addictz :D ) and I want to thank you all for your input. I hope you all came out on top like I did. :D

:wave:

Gisa ^^
 
knowing that increasing mass solves the problem, maybe the cause is imbalance between mass, traction force and adhesion. To much traction on too small mass gives wheel spin. You can tell by the engine sound, when its reving a full throttle. Its been with us since dawn of trainz.
nismit
In my case the loco worked fine using the more realistic physics system that cab mode uses so I doubt adhesion/slipping wheels is the problem nor was it a problem in dcc if you turned the speed dial to the max right from a 0 start. In 2k4 it wouldn't be a factor since actual wheel slippage isn't included. With 2k6 they added it as part of the new vehicle physics and could be a problem if it was enabled. It only happend when the AI control controlled it.

Bob Pearson
 
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