Tips for making AI friendly layouts?
- Thread starter Davie_UCF
- Start date
AI friendly routing
The first tip is KIS (Keep It Simple). The AI program can be very simple "minded" (or stupid, depending on how frustrated you are) some times. It is supposed to attempt to follow the shortest route to the destination.
Secondly, use directional, priority, and regular track-marks. The more information available to the program the better it is at finding the correct route.
Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, make sure you have solid quality track-work. Check the entire "layout" for inoperative switches and signals as well as for incorrectly attached spline points. Read through the many tips and tutorials for laying good track, it will save you time in the long run.
Finally, relax it's a game. If you find you are getting rather frustrated at the AI driver, try something else.
The first tip is KIS (Keep It Simple). The AI program can be very simple "minded" (or stupid, depending on how frustrated you are) some times. It is supposed to attempt to follow the shortest route to the destination.
Secondly, use directional, priority, and regular track-marks. The more information available to the program the better it is at finding the correct route.
Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, make sure you have solid quality track-work. Check the entire "layout" for inoperative switches and signals as well as for incorrectly attached spline points. Read through the many tips and tutorials for laying good track, it will save you time in the long run.
Finally, relax it's a game. If you find you are getting rather frustrated at the AI driver, try something else.
steamdrivre
Narrow gauge or nothing
Excellent advise!!! Very well done. There are some pointers here I'd forgotten about...
Thanks,
Rick
I only hope TRS '09 is better then all these little minor upgrades from '06 to TC3, Mick. If '09 isn't a 'new game', I'll be sticking with '04, myself.
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I'm sure I remember someone saying in the previous versions something to do with the location of point levers, like distance from the spline point effecting the AI.
I keep having issues on my newly finished route where the AI won't even move, even though the signal is green, or the common issue is it tries to take an impossible route at my terminus, it tries to go backwards even when it can't fit into the headshunt to take the other route.. surely thats not the quickest route?
Thanks
David
I keep having issues on my newly finished route where the AI won't even move, even though the signal is green, or the common issue is it tries to take an impossible route at my terminus, it tries to go backwards even when it can't fit into the headshunt to take the other route.. surely thats not the quickest route?
Thanks
David
On the subject of AI logic:-
I have found that the first thing the AI does before it moves, is to check that it is clear of any switch levers by at least 20m front and rear!
If not, then it will drive in the logical forward direction of the engine (or sometimes in the direction it was last moved) until finds a clear section of track. This means that it sometimes will run to the end of a track and still not find a clear track. It will then reverse and try again, until it does!
Then and only then it will try to obey the driver command.
Perhaps issuing a "change direction" command first, may solve some of your AI problems.
Andyz
I have found that the first thing the AI does before it moves, is to check that it is clear of any switch levers by at least 20m front and rear!
If not, then it will drive in the logical forward direction of the engine (or sometimes in the direction it was last moved) until finds a clear section of track. This means that it sometimes will run to the end of a track and still not find a clear track. It will then reverse and try again, until it does!
Then and only then it will try to obey the driver command.
Perhaps issuing a "change direction" command first, may solve some of your AI problems.
Andyz
trackplate
New member
Hi David
Are you getting a radio message from the driver explaining why he won’t move?
Also try driving the train manually to see if the problem shows up with the likes of a derailment
With the points levers move them just outside the spline connecting points on the approach side
The long way round can be difficult if not impossible to work out though simple thing like the direction the track is laid can have an effect
At the moment I’m having trouble with a well signalled branch with all signals showing green and plenty of space where only reversing into the branch is causing a problem with the train going backwards and forwards several times before finally going to its scheduled destination
So far I have found that if I stop the train where it falters and then continue schedule it runs in without problem so as I said sometimes it is very difficult to understand
Regards Bob V
Edit; I have just managed to sort the above directional problem after many attempts by re laying some of the track in the reverse direction to the norm
Are you getting a radio message from the driver explaining why he won’t move?
Also try driving the train manually to see if the problem shows up with the likes of a derailment
With the points levers move them just outside the spline connecting points on the approach side
The long way round can be difficult if not impossible to work out though simple thing like the direction the track is laid can have an effect
At the moment I’m having trouble with a well signalled branch with all signals showing green and plenty of space where only reversing into the branch is causing a problem with the train going backwards and forwards several times before finally going to its scheduled destination
So far I have found that if I stop the train where it falters and then continue schedule it runs in without problem so as I said sometimes it is very difficult to understand
Regards Bob V
Edit; I have just managed to sort the above directional problem after many attempts by re laying some of the track in the reverse direction to the norm
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I leave my "Radio" turned on all the time I'm running A.I.'s. Tells me what's going on and helps me fix stuff.
I've always got it in too.. and some of the time its the Waiting for access of junction (forget the wording).. even though theres no other trains near the junctions.
I'm trying to use trackmarks to guide them easier but still..
I'm going to try again later after trying to eliminate the whole locos getting stuck on track with scenery..
I'm trying to use trackmarks to guide them easier but still..
I'm going to try again later after trying to eliminate the whole locos getting stuck on track with scenery..
Heres an example
It sits there, occasionally switching the junction J21, as shown in both shots.. yet refuses to go anywhere. I can't really put another signal in down the track because its a group of junctions as you might see..
Ideas?
2)
Same station.
40 performing a run around sits at this signal and doesn't seem to want to go anywhere also...
It sits there, occasionally switching the junction J21, as shown in both shots.. yet refuses to go anywhere. I can't really put another signal in down the track because its a group of junctions as you might see..
Ideas?
2)
Same station.
40 performing a run around sits at this signal and doesn't seem to want to go anywhere also...
And heres a view of the track layout from above
http://img390.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen210ef2.jpg
http://img390.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen210ef2.jpg
trackplate
New member
From your pictures it looks like you may be short of signals for AI operations
Try placing a signal on every stretch of track between junctions where they don’t exist if that clears the problem replace these signals with invisible ones
Bob V
Try placing a signal on every stretch of track between junctions where they don’t exist if that clears the problem replace these signals with invisible ones
Bob V
Definitely agree here--that "Line ahead is unsignaled" is a dead giveaway. Also be sure any track ends have bumpers--they're actually permanently red signals and need to be present at any end of line.
Signaling is one of the most critical parts of Trainz if you want to use AI with anything less than a simple end to end one-directional track. There are some excellent tutorials online (perhaps someone here can provide a link?). The best rule I remember from one of them is "never put a signal somewhere where you don't want a train to stop." At times this may result in an unprototypical situation (for example, don't use a signal facing into a passing siding, only at the exits) but that's Trainz.
--Lamont
My pleasure is just watching, but I find the micro mangement of the AI over complex track as very frustrating, especially when I put a track mark directly in front and they reverse and take a completely stupid route, which sometimes doesn't work either, They then go down the original route that I wanted them to take in the first place.
Trouble with invisible signals is that eventually a train will stop at one and it looks daft.
I always thought that maybe you should be able to set a driver command which disallows the AI from reversing for any reason (i.e. calculating any route that would require a change of direction). This would at least alleviate the many times the AI gets to a red light, waits a short while then reverses and tries another route. You would also have a driver command which would allow for reverse calculations.
I hear that the AI is to be improved in 09 but has any indication been given as to what the improvements may be. (I do pray that they get rid of some of this Un-intelligent Intelligence).
Trouble with invisible signals is that eventually a train will stop at one and it looks daft.
I always thought that maybe you should be able to set a driver command which disallows the AI from reversing for any reason (i.e. calculating any route that would require a change of direction). This would at least alleviate the many times the AI gets to a red light, waits a short while then reverses and tries another route. You would also have a driver command which would allow for reverse calculations.
I hear that the AI is to be improved in 09 but has any indication been given as to what the improvements may be. (I do pray that they get rid of some of this Un-intelligent Intelligence).
Even after you've "finished" with your layout--- i.e., towns, industries, scenery, track & road laying, etc., and it's taken you a month or more to get here, it may take a couple of weeks or MORE to finally get your A.I. trains running properly. When you reach the point where you can just "ride" in one of your A.I. consists, and it all the others will obey all orders, signals, markers, industry objectives, etc. for three/four hours with NO mistakes, then you're on your way to being an "expert" in A.I.! 
But--- even so, I don't think anyone is ever completely "finished" with a layout. If you're like me, you can ALWAYS see room for improvement-- more activities-- another industry--- add a village--- etc. etc. which will probably involve re-configuring your A.I. trains. Anyone agree?
But--- even so, I don't think anyone is ever completely "finished" with a layout. If you're like me, you can ALWAYS see room for improvement-- more activities-- another industry--- add a village--- etc. etc. which will probably involve re-configuring your A.I. trains. Anyone agree?
AI, artificial intelligence? Not intelligent that's for sure. No matter how correctly track and sigs are laid out, AI drivers always follow the shortest route. I'm building a prototype route which has 2 stations on curves. Both have passing loops with the through line on the outside curve. Of course AI trains ignore the signals and junction directions and drive on the inside curve. There isn't any way to correct this one, only to change the proto route setup. Maybe the craziest bit of AI was on the Wadalbavale line, when I had a train in a loop with a green sig ahead. I gave a "drive to" command so it would go ahead to the end of the line. The AI reversed back out of the loop, changed the junction so it could take the other loop line. Never could figure that one.
Maybe you should try to set up a trackmark on the through line;
then give the AI driver the "Drive via trackmark" command. It should work: the AI will be compelled to transit on the trackmark.
That's what I do - place a trackmark - name it something relevant to it's location and/or my trains next designation and then tell the driver to drive via that trackmark. I may tell it to drive Via 5 or 6 different trackmarks in order to get the train to go from one destination to another.
Most of my industries are a fair distance apart.