Timetable Challenge - the route and schedule

[Kelly88]

Hi Segy

I also have run the schedule as published, athou the timings are not spot on due to distance between portals and platforms + type of loco and stock used, but the units arrive and leave within 20 seconds of published times and in the order required

I have also altered the Industry, infact I turned the Coal Mine around and connected it up so this can be used also.

I found the signals inapropriate and caused blockages under AI so I revised them

If you give me by PM and E-Mail address I will send you my version so you can see the changes.

I still think it would have been better if the SE to North had been double track with the SW end a single track branch, but then I'm from the UK and main lines are 2 track, single track branch lines would not carry such traffic on tight schedules.

by the way I also had you original track running with some 18 AI units running, Passangers at every 5 mins on both platform ( pass activated) through trains every 15 min intervals ( both directions)
and 2 coal units loading at Mine
1 tank unit discharging at mine
1 mixed unit load and discharge at your industry
mind you I needed to move some trigger points
and add some extra ones and the plain track at SE was changed for another portal.

 

[segy]

Hi Kelly88

Thanks for rising to the challenge. I will be interested to see how you've done it. I have sent you private mail.

Cheers
Segy

 

[davidbird]

Anybody else, apart from Segy, actually managed to get it working yet with the route as originally published? I'm just adjusting the times to get them spot-on...

 

[Kelly88]

Anybody else, apart from Segy, actually managed to get it working yet with the route as originally published? I'm just adjusting the times to get them spot-on...

The thing is what do you use for the control
there are many options
and with most of them you can get it to run
as for the times that will depend on the units( loco/stock you use)
to get the same as Segy you would need to use the same units/same starting points and the same control system as he did and that info is not available ( as far as I know)

maybe Segy can upload his session as well ?

 

[segy]

Kelly88

You choose what method of control to use and what trains to run. Just make sure they run to the suggested schedule. There are, I believe, several ways of implementing the schedule using various rules in TRS2006.

I have developed 2 methods so far and am comprehensively testing them before I upload in the next few days.

Segy

 

[segy]

I have now uploaded a slightly revised route and 2 sessions which are now available for downloading.

Session 1 is implemented using SCS2006 only.

Session 2 uses my preferred hybrid method where SCS2006 is used for scheduling and messaging, consists are generated by triggers and unportals, routes and signals are set by path command.

I am not sure whether it's possible to implement the schedule by any other method hence the challenge.

Segy

 

[davidbird]

Just sent my attempt, using the original route, to the DLS. Awaiting approval...

 

[segy]

Great - first to respond to the challenge. Can't wait to see it.

You deserve a PYMWYMI award.

Segy

 

[Paulsw2]

I've had a go with Segy's hybrid session and must say it looks very impressive. One thing though - if you're using the SCS2006 rule, does this mean you become an essentially passive onlooker as the session works out? At one stage I tried to take over one of the trains, cleared its schedule and took manual control, but noticed the junctions were locked against me, so couldn't send it to the portal I wanted. Did this happen because all the 'moves' in the session are programmed with SCS2006?

The ability to intervene in a session and 'take control' is, I think, very desirable, as it enables greater sponteneity as well as the ability to 'assist' the AI if anything starts to go wrong.

 

[segy]

The ability to intervene in a session and 'take control' is, I think, very desirable, as it enables greater sponteneity as well as the ability to 'assist' the AI if anything starts to go wrong.

You can take control of trains in a hybrid session same as you can with a normal AI driver session. Driver commands can be added and removed from the bottom of the screen. The main issue is route setting as the junctions and signals are not necessarily free for the player to set. If you use pure AI without path command then there should be little difficulty I believe. If you take over a train that is running on a programmed path then it must reach the end to free up the junctions/signals before you can set them.

Segy

 

[Dap]

A hybrid session sounds interesting. What commands are compatable and which ones are not for a hybrid session.

As I understand SCS2006, it is a hands off the routing system. You can be the engineer or driver, but manually throwing switches or turn-outs is not allowed or at least not recommended. So how does one create a session where all trains run on automatic except for the switch run or the local, servicing the industries and interchanges along the road?

Dap

 

[segy]

As I understand SCS2006, it is a hands off the routing system.

You don't have to use the routing part of SCS2006, you can set paths using other rules. The Hybrid session uses one technique - give it a try.

Segy

 

[Dap]

You don't have to use the routing part of SCS2006, you can set paths using other rules. The Hybrid session uses one technique - give it a try.

Segy

Segy,

I have downloaded your Timetable Challenge Route, but can not find your sessions. I am anxious to check out your hybrid session.

Dap

 

[segy]

Just sent my attempt, using the original route, to the DLS. Awaiting approval...

David

I ran through your session and it worked well with reasonably accurate timing. Thanks for having a go at this. I note your comment about not able to handle 'if' situations with ordinary Train rules.

I would just like to point out that the SCS2006 rules had some vital lines commented out - presumably while you were testing - and these should have been uncommented before you uploaded the session. There is one 'set game time' rule in Thread 1 that should not be uncommented however.

Looks good

Segy

 

[segy]

Segy,

I have downloaded your Timetable Challenge Route, but can not find your sessions. I am anxious to check out your hybrid session.

Dap

Search the download station with user name Segy and the hybrid session appears first in the list

Segy

 

[stagecoach]

Hi Segy
Im not using 2006 but have stuck with 04 instead so unable to test your route. What i have done though is taken a real timetable (Exeter St Davids, UK) and set up my station to run to it. That was the easy part. The harder part was that 4 different companies use the station and the route in and out vary. The only way around this was to use multiple portals for each individual consist. I have a main line north to south with 5 portals each end and a branch/main line east to west with 3 portals each end. All run through the station to various destinations.
To operate to a timetable i use a single baseboard set away from the route and placed track loops with triggers for each portal. Several engines are placed with drivers. Another engine and driver is placed near the station for dispatcher commands. I use the Central Portal Control and CPC Emit on Trigger together with the wait until hour and wait until minute commands. Also needed is the post message and wait for message and clear commands.
The portals are set up with the various consists via CPC. The engines on the baseboard are given the hour and minute (timetable time minus the time to arrive from portal) to drive via a trigger, this sets of the correct consist at the correct time to arrive at station. The dispatcher engine controls departure times at the station by using the wait until hour/minute and the post message command. If the arriving train is early it will wait until it gets the message then depart. if it is a little late it will depart after loading. Ive been runnig the timetable over a 3 hour period without problems at the moment.

 

[davidbird]

If you've not found it yet, my attempt is on the DLS here.

David

I ran through your session and it worked well with reasonably accurate timing. Thanks for having a go at this. I note your comment about not able to handle 'if' situations with ordinary Train rules.

I would just like to point out that the SCS2006 rules had some vital lines commented out - presumably while you were testing - and these should have been uncommented before you uploaded the session. There is one 'set game time' rule in Thread 1 that should not be uncommented however.

Looks good

Segy

Yes, the comments, and cancelled (red square), instructions were left in... 'though it worked for me. I could also have improved the "station announcements" but if I'd spent any more time on it, I was in danger of losing interest!

As I understand SCS2006, it is a hands off the routing system. You can be the engineer or driver, but manually throwing switches or turn-outs is not allowed or at least not recommended. So how does one create a session where all trains run on automatic except for the switch run or the local, servicing the industries and interchanges along the road?

Dap

SCS2006 does have a release junction command, where specific junctions/points/turnouts can be released for manual control. This can be done at anytime, ie for all trains or just for one and reset to auto after the train has passed. But it does have to be programmed in before the session is run.

One thing though - if you're using the SCS2006 rule, does this mean you become an essentially passive onlooker as the session works out? At one stage I tried to take over one of the trains, cleared its schedule and took manual control, but noticed the junctions were locked against me, so couldn't send it to the portal I wanted. Did this happen because all the 'moves' in the session are programmed with SCS2006?

I've not checked Segy's hybrid sessions, but if you're using pure SCS2006, you can set the control method to either AI or manual control. As with Dap's query about junction locking above, it does have to be programmed in in Surveyor. It can be programmed to be activated at any time within the session, so for example AI could bring a train in to a station, then you would drive it into a stop. However, using the "IF" command, it should be possible to choose whether or not have AI or manual control of any train. If anybody's interested, I'll have a go at modyfying my session to incorporate this.
David

 

[Dap]

SCS2006 does have a release junction command, where specific junctions/points/turnouts can be released for manual control. This can be done at anytime, ie for all trains or just for one and reset to auto after the train has passed. But it does have to be programmed in before the session is run.

David

So all junctions are under SCS control unless otherwise programmed? I will only be using SCS to bring foreign trains onto the route for interchange purposes. Out of over 500 hundred junctions, I will only be using SCS to control about 12.

 

[segy]

Hi Segy
Im not using 2006 but have stuck with 04 instead so unable to test your route. What i have done though is taken a real timetable (Exeter St Davids, UK) and set up my station to run to it. That was the easy part. The harder part was that 4 different companies use the station and the route in and out vary. The only way around this was to use multiple portals for each individual consist. I have a main line north to south with 5 portals each end and a branch/main line east to west with 3 portals each end. All run through the station to various destinations.
To operate to a timetable i use a single baseboard set away from the route and placed track loops with triggers for each portal. Several engines are placed with drivers. Another engine and driver is placed near the station for dispatcher commands. I use the Central Portal Control and CPC Emit on Trigger together with the wait until hour and wait until minute commands. Also needed is the post message and wait for message and clear commands.
The portals are set up with the various consists via CPC. The engines on the baseboard are given the hour and minute (timetable time minus the time to arrive from portal) to drive via a trigger, this sets of the correct consist at the correct time to arrive at station. The dispatcher engine controls departure times at the station by using the wait until hour/minute and the post message command. If the arriving train is early it will wait until it gets the message then depart. if it is a little late it will depart after loading. Ive been runnig the timetable over a 3 hour period without problems at the moment.

Thanks stagecoach - this method of scheduling sounds very effective and relatively simple to set up in that it doesn't require learning SCS to get acceptable results. I guess the downside would be having all those drivers on the timing loop and dispatcher trains mixed with the drivers of the 'real' trains but I could live with that - although one advantage of my 'hybrid' approach is the timing trains don't appear in the driver list whereas 'real' trains' drivers do.

As time allows I was hoping someone (possibly myself) would respond to the Timetable Challenge using the method you suggest although I'm not sure if/how the conditional delays and variations of train sequence would be programmed.

Segy

 

[segy]

SCS2006 does have a release junction command, where specific junctions/points/turnouts can be released for manual control. This can be done at anytime, ie for all trains or just for one and reset to auto after the train has passed. But it does have to be programmed in before the session is run. David

Yes. I always thought the snag with this though is that you have to anticipate all possible movements in advance.
Another option is just not let SCS know that junctions exist so it doesn't control them at all.

Segy