Time for Update

[barryg]

Hi guys. System specs first

Asus P5QSE2 Mobo.
Intel Dual-Core 3.0Ghz (E8400 and Water-cooled. Have clocked to 3.6 but prefer default).
4GB 800Mhz DDR2 Crucial Ram.
4 TB of Sata Hard Drives (Can never have enough space:hehe: )
Nvidia 9800GTX++ 512MB
1 big hairy spider inside the top left corner of the case. All the time i can see him i'm ok, it's when he's not there i panic :'(

So apart from getting an industrial hoover to evict the spider, i'm looking to boost up the performance a bit. I've been looking at upgrading the Video card but am at a loss to which one will be beneficial to the system. I prefer Nvidia as i also use Linux, and have less problems with Nvidia than with ATI.

I understand the Nvidia 250 series is similar to the 9800 so i'm assuming i need to go perhaps 450 and upwards. Funds are limited (as always for a retired, poor, downtrodden etc... ), but any suggestions will be more than welcomed.

Regards Barryg

 

[nfotis]

Hello there,

it is my impression that the Nvidia GTX 260 is the first GPU with a real difference from the 9800 GTX.

You don't mention your monitor resolution, so I cannot make a concrete proposal.

You could check the various benchmark charts, like this one:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2010-gaming-graphics-charts-high-quality/benchmarks,114.html

The GF 9800 GT is nearly in the 2/3rds of the list in 1680x1050 resolution in the sum of first person shooter benchmarks (around 340 points):
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/...ity/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1680x1050,2487.html

The GTS 250 is around 380 points, the GTX 260 (216SP) is around 460 points, the GTX 460 1 GB is around 600 points (to give you an idea).
Of course, the CPU capacity and the graphics settings play their role.

Hope this gives you an idea. Another approach would be to specify a monetary amount, then buy the best Nvidia within this budget.

Cheers,
N.F.

 

[fran1]

If your using 2006 the system should run it well.
What's the problem your having ?
Try using DX vs OG.

 

[barryg]

Sorry i didn't include the display - I have a 22" monitor using a 1680*1050 resolution.

I generally get >40fps on my own with most routes using DX, (OGL is not very good on my system), but as the AI get included framerate drops, sometimes quite a lot. I thought it might be a texture problem at one time, so i used a utility called CFF Explorer, this allows any app to handle (more) than 2gb addressset. This works a charm with e.g. GTR2, allowing a field of >50 cars, where as before i could just squeeze 40 cars with a good framerate. Unfortunately it didn't do squat with trainz. Please don't ask me how CFF Explorer works, i went by instuctions from a collegue of mine who also likes racing large amounts of cars :udrool:

Overclocking the CPU to 3.6Ghz gives me an extra 4 f.p.s so not enough difference to warrant keeping it clocked, and this leads me to think the Video card is perhaps getting old

I can go upwards to £200.00 in cost which i know will not gain me the greatest, but at least it will hopefully keep me happy for a few years :wave:

Regards Barryg

 

[fran1]

Use the default resolution for your screen and set it to the same in trainz.
2006 relies more on the GPU than cpu, where 2010 is the other way round ( I think).
I'm running a E8500 core duo with an MSI 560 GTX TI. Win7 64 bit, 8g RAM.
06+10 both run ok.
Run a standard 06 session and we'll do a comparison on FPS.

 

[barryg]

Ok i did a short test.

Toronto Rail Lands, Grand Tour.
Tracking view.
Drive to Don (platform1).

All sliders on full, resolution = 1680*1050. Resource Cache Size = 512

TrainzOptions -

-DepthBits=24
-StencilBits=8
-fullscreen
-Jet=bin
-cabinfov=65
-driverfov=55
-DefaultAutoMip=none

JetLog -

? 0000068C Warn 23:37.5 Trainz : Averaged 39.598763fps over 1172.763916sec

Nvidia settings -

Anisotropic = 16
AA = 8
Force V/Sync = on

Everything else as default.

I tried Hawes Junction at first but it takes so long to load, and is extremely jerky at the beginning, so basically i got fed up with waiting :hehe: On the contrary though, Toronto Rail Lands loaded fast and there was no stuttering at all :wave:

Anyway, i hope the above serves some for of benchmark.

Regards Barry

 

[fran1]

Drive to DON pt1. 49.41 fps over 860 secs. I pulled out the load and wait commands at union station, hence the time difference.
Sliders at max. tracking view.
Defrag the drive with 06 on, loading times should improve.
What version drivers are you using, a recent post mentions the 270.?? makes things worse, this is with a 9800 card. He went back to the 266.?? version.

 

[barryg]

I have V270.61 drivers and the system is cleaned out and defragged. I'll try to 266 version today and see what happens.

Regards Barry

 

[fran1]

Spider eviction

Has the card got a fan.
I ask this because until recently I had a 9600 GSO, and the air was drawn past cooling vanes which were covered by a plate. All looked clean until I unscrewed the plate, the vanes were clogged.

 

[nfotis]

I think that the best bet (if you stay in the Nvidia camp) is to buy a Geforce 460 GTX (141 pounds in Amazon.co.uk)

Sample (close to the reference design):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palit-SONIC...W0WS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1305539166&sr=8-2

Another example with a big cooler that moves air inside the PC tower:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/MSI-N460GTX...3?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1305539552&sr=1-403

You may prefer another cooling solution that throws the hot air outside.

Note that the GF 460 has three variants:
460 SE (some call it 'slow edition' ), 1 GB
460 768 MB
460 1 GB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geforce_400_Series gives a comparison of this previous generation (the 500 series is the latest one)

Amazon prices are in the 145-155 quid range for the typical GF 460 1 GB (the overclocked editions are not better than a 560Ti, and you can do the overclock yourself in software)

An example of the 560Ti, which is the best Nvidia card in your budget:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-GeForc...9?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1305540062&sr=1-419

I suppose that your power supply can easily work with a single GPU card (the 560Ti can eat up to 170 watts without overclocking)

Cheers,
N.F.

 

[barryg]

Well that was ummm, unexpected. I cleaned out and installed the 266.58, loaded up Totonto and waited 45 seconds until the textures loaded up The train was moving before any buildings were loaded. Jerky performance.

Uninstalled, cleaned out and installed V 236.09, but the driver couldn't install because it could not find compatable hardware So, cleaned out (again), installed V 260.99. Loaded up Toronto and waited 45 seconds for the textures to load Extremely jerky upto the 1st station so i uninstalled that driver and cleaned up the system.

Installed V 197.77 and exactly the same results as previous versions, so i uninstalled, made sure all driver software ws cleaned out the system and re-installed the V 270.61 (which i had originally).

Before i started with changing drivers, all textures of the Toronto map loaded within 5 secs and i had smooth performance, but now it takes >45 seconds to load textures and i have extremely jerky performance. Also loads of flashing (between the rails) textures.

We all know the moral to this story, but i really don't want to say it

I used Driver Sweeper to eradicate any left over files and registry entries.

I'll have a look at the 460GTX and see what it's about.

I have a 650W PSU and i checked my power requirements at http://www.antec.outervision.com/ Which showed i need 564W.

Regards Barryg

 

[fran1]

Moral? if it's not broke dont fix it maybe.

I've been running various routes in 2006, Clovis sub, rosworth vale, Caboolture.
Frame rates are a lot better from the old 9600 GSO. Your GTX is above that in the gaming ratings by a chunk.
I'm wondering how much of an improvement (fps) you'll get.
My 560 runs at 25-35% max, the E8500 cpu is just above yours so you should see similar to me. Ram usage 2-2.5 gb.

 

[nfotis]

560 Watts sounds too high - I suppose water-cooling and overclocking eat up lots of wattage
(I tried a generic air-cooled system with a Q9450, NO overclocking, 4 DIMMs, 2 HDs, 1 DVD-RW and a GTX560Ti, and I got 396Watts)

Note that with a good graphics card, you will probably need less to no CPU overclocking.

N.F.

 

[barryg]

Yes it does seem high at first, but the 9800GTX+ requires 2 molex connections to run, and my Corsair Watercooler was not in the list so i chose one at random

I had clocked the cpu to 3.6, but returned it to 3.0 default as there was only a minimal fps increase. On the other hand GTR2 flies like the wind when clocked, but i guess 2 different games etc...

I thought i would do a short test at Rosworth as you mentioned it, but when i loaded it up, the display was a jerky as a drunk monkey Something is clearly amiss with my system now.

I'll have a poke around and see if i can find out what it is. I'll have to get the wife to hook out the spider first though :hehe:

 

[barryg]

Just an update on the stuttering and bad framerate.

I cured it by launching trainz and setting everything back to default. I tested and everything was back as smooth as silk(ish). I then adjusted trainz and Nvidia settings as usual and all is still good.

So i guess after changing drivers etc.. It's best to reset trainz to default, then adjust as needed.

Regards Barryg

 

[fran1]

Its odd that. Updating doesn't create the havoc you've been through.

 

[barryg]

Yes it sounds weird but it solved it. I only use trainz and ISI based games (car racing), and the racing games do need the graphics driver I.D updated whenever a new driver is installed. This is an automatic sequence when the game is run.

I know that trainz throws up an error if something is not set correctly in the graphics options, so perhaps by resetting the options back to default, resets the internal flags and also updates the graphics driver I.D.

The Toronto scenario (after data loading), appears almost instantly on the screen, where before i waited >45seconds for the graphics to finish loading.

Whatever though, it worked for me, and is something i can try if it happens again as a part of a process of elimination.

Regards Barry

 

[barryg]

I got a nice, new, shiny GFX's card, it's an MSI N560GTX-Ti twin frozr ll. I haven't yet figure out where the coffee comes out, but it sure has a lot of pipes, 2 fans, and a huge radiator stuck on it.

I formatted and re-installed windoze 7, installed 2k6 and loaded up a benchmark route, lo and behold, i got roughly the same framerate. I clocked my E8400 CPU from 3.0 to 3.6 and got a small framerate rise.

Using a performance monitor supplied with the card showed the card only using 43% of it's power with 2k6, so the card is definately not the bottleneck. It also showed the 9800GTX+ card i replaced was up to the job anyway.

The graphics performance number in the windoze system assessment jumped from 7.0 to 7.9, so at least the card has made the system better, even thought trainz hasn't got the benefit of it.

Good job trainz isn't my only hobby. Oh well, live and learn.

Regards Barryg

 

[nfotis]

That sounds rather curious to me.
Maybe the game is more CPU-limited than GPU-limited (the CPU was working at 100% capacity?)
So, a Sandy Bridge platform looks to be a better match for the GTX 560 Ti.

Did you try pushing the sliders to the max? (distance, effects, etc.)
Are you using the full resolution of the monitor?

It seems that a GTX460 1 GB is more than a good match for TRS2006 - but what about TRS12?

N.F.

 

[barryg]

Hi. All sliders were at Maximum. Installing the 275.xx beta drivers made a lot of difference in smoothness, but not really anything on the f.p.s. The dual-core cpu is working fine with other software, so whatever is going on with trainz is not on so much on the Video side. I played Metro 2033 on maximum, and it didn't skip a heartbeat.

I do have 1 bad issue though -

On Rosworth and another route i have, the textures in the distance are like shimmering, and for all intents and purposes, like bad texturing. I can stop the shimmering by turning off AA in the video drivers, but the routes look bad then. I recall i had this issue with XP and the 9800 card, but going to win7 i didn't have it.

Installing the 560 card i have got the bad texturing back, and i'm at a loss to know why.

Regards Barryg