The Passenger Station Loading Issues - Interesting find (creators and N3V take note)

[shaneturner12]

Hi Trainzers,

As many of you are probably now aware there is an ongoing problem involving passenger trains loading at stations.

I have been doing some investigations into the issue myself, and have found an interesting tidbit in the GenericPassengerStation script file that may shed some light on what is going on.

    int totalAmount = 0;
    if (action == ACTION_LOADING)
  {
      totalAmount = queue.GetQueueCount();
   // should really limit to the amount of space on the train,
   // however that would be time-consuming and wouldnt achieve much
  }

Observe the comment as well as the script lines above. It appears that part of the problem may now be that the script is not limiting the passenger count to what can fit on the train, which means that there is a chance of an indefinite loading time, as well as explaining why it may be having the other issues that are involved.

This will affect content creators as they will need to find a workaround for that part of the script if they can. It's in the PerformProductLoadAndUnload function.

Shane

 

[JamesMoody]

As many of you are probably now aware there is an ongoing problem involving passenger trains loading at stations.

Yes, it's something we've repeatedly asked for examples of - something another forum user has now been able to provide me with.

I have been doing some investigations into the issue myself, and have found an interesting tidbit in the GenericPassengerStation script file that may shed some light on what is going on.

    int totalAmount = 0;
    if (action == ACTION_LOADING)
  {
      totalAmount = queue.GetQueueCount();
   // should really limit to the amount of space on the train,
   // however that would be time-consuming and wouldnt achieve much
  }

Observe the comment as well as the script lines above. It appears that part of the problem may now be that the script is not limiting the passenger count to what can fit on the train, which means that there is a chance of an indefinite loading time, as well as explaining why it may be having the other issues that are involved.

There is so much wrong with that statement I don't even know where to begin.

That comment dates from 2004. It is present in the TRS2004 version of GenericPassengerStation.gs - so if it was a problem, you'd expect it to be an old one.

The case that comment deals with is very rare. The station has to have more people on it than can fit in the train. Which given most passenger stations have a max capacity of about 2 coaches worth of people, is highly unlikely.

In any event, that is handled properly later - as the individual coaches simply don't load all the people, and they are left on the platform.

In addition, that number still has an upper bound (the size of the station) so it can't go infinite. And the *amount* of passengers loaded does not affect the *time* of the load, which remains fixed.

This will affect content creators

No, it doesn't.

as they will need to find a workaround for that part of the script

No they don't - that part is working just fine.

 

[shaneturner12]

Hi James,

Thankyou for responding.

As I have stated in my PM to you, I am aware regarding the example issue, as I've been having issues with another bug in the game as well (the one relating to dependencies not being registered properly).

One thing that I am not happy with at the moment is the lack of information forthcoming from yourselves (N3V) over this issue - if things were more transparent, I would not need to do my own investigations.

Interestingly enough, I actually found a case where what I've stated above has actually happened, and it was with one of your newer stations.

I am willing to give things a break, if more information could be forthcoming from N3V's end (as the issue is affecting many users)


Shane

 

[WindWalkr]

One thing that I am not happy with at the moment is the lack of information forthcoming from yourselves (N3V) over this issue

Hi shane,

Unfortunately, as I'm sure you're aware, we have limited time available for providing detailed documentation, especially when it comes to the internal (ie. not intended for public consumption) workings of the game. You will find a reasonable body of documentation available on our wiki (link available in the top-of-page banner) but this is aimed at providing a reference to content creators, not at people who are trying to understand how the base scripts operate.

I'd like to thank you for your interest in the product and in helping us resolve the issues that you've mentioned, but I would recommend that you take any comments in the scripts with a grain of salt, especially in areas where you're not familiar with how the underlying code works. Jumping to conclusions based on partial data doesn't really benefit anybody, it just muddies the waters regarding what bugs are actually present. What really does help us diagnose these kind of issues is a small, clear, reproducible example of the problem case.

thanks,

chris

 

[shaneturner12]

Hi Chris,

I can understand that there is limited time re: documentation, but unfortunately it doesn't help when faced with a major bug affecting many users, and even causing some creators' assets to be 'shunned' (or in a better sense, not used) as a result. I'm wary of naming as I do not want to offend said creator(s).

What would help though is if yourselves (N3V) could somehow keep the community up-to-date (if possible) over the status of this bug. I am aware that another user has supplied a test map which will hopefully speed things up.

Shane

 

[WindWalkr]

What would help though is if yourselves (N3V) could somehow keep the community up-to-date (if possible) over the status of this bug. I am aware that another user has supplied a test map which will hopefully speed things up.

Unfortunately, we can't provide details about future products and development.

kind regards,

chris

 

[shaneturner12]

I fully understand that. My only concern is that there is the possibility of the issue 'going to ground'.

Shane

 

[WindWalkr]

I fully understand that. My only concern is that there is the possibility of the issue 'going to ground'.

Outside of being a beta tester, about the best thing that community members can do is to let us know (here on the forums) after each product release, whether it be major or minor, whether their pet bugs have been resolved or are still present in some form.

thanks again,

chris

 

[shaneturner12]

I agree. It's like the merging route bug that has been mentioned on other threads. I think the main problem with the bug mentioned in my OP is that it has spanned at least two Trainz versions (may even be three)

Shane

Shane

 

[celje]

WindWalkr: Unfortunately, we can't provide details about future products and development.
Shaneturner: I fully understand that.
WindWalkr: Outside of being a beta tester, about the best thing that community members can do is to let us know (here on the forums) after each product release, whether it be major or minor, whether their pet bugs have been resolved or are still present in some form.
Shaneturner: I agree. It's like the merging route bug that has been mentioned on other threads


You had the pleasant chat, but i admit that i don't agree. Provide the details of future product is very much different, from making the statement about the problems we have with TS12, e.g. merge function, e.g. will we get SP1.

best regards to both

 

[shaneturner12]

To be honest, I'm having to keep things toned down as if I showed how I really feel, I wouldn't be on these forums for much longer.

I personally feel that N3V should be giving some status on whether they are looking into or even in the process of fixing a bug (even if it's a timeframe).

I'm glad to see that someone agrees with one of my thoughts at least, so I must thank you celje.

Shane

 

[celje]

To be honest, I'm having to keep things toned down.........

Shane

The tone is now a little higher, i'm interesting if WindWalkr will answer now.

For me the merge disfunction is not the bug but the essential problem of TS12, same as disapearing texture, strange problems with interactive stations, not accurate save function..... In 2011 I was hard working in ts12, all problems i found i reported on helpdesk and opening new threads here. In the begining of this year i gave up and now i'm waiting SP1.

 

[shaneturner12]

He probably will do, as the problem affects up to 3 versions of Trainz, as well as a lot of users. It would be in N3V's best interests to resolve the issue in order to avoid further possible issues as a result of the bug. One of the N3V team has already acknowledged that it's more serious than stated here via email to another Trainz user who I communicate with.

Shane

 

[TheRack]

Hello to everybody,

As a Trainz user since 2004, I can only confirm the bug mentionned by Shane in his first post. As many other users, I'm using stations created in 2006 (the AJS stations). I have a huge map with a lot of these stations actually made with TS2010. Those stations are working for trains you're driving, but as soon as you have AI trains with schedules, passengers will no longer load (and unload of course) passengers. For what I've seen, this bug wasn't present before TRS2009 and the stations were working in TRS2006 (I didn't try it already). So something changed since 2006 in the way the passenger stations are handled, otherwise those stations would work with AI trains as well.

I've tried to look at the stations scripts to see what causes the problem, without success. Other stations don't have that problem, but I don't feel to change all the 50 stations of my map each time a new version of Trainz make some scripts obsolete.

I think the creator should update its stations, but unfortunately he seems not to answer. But could N3V provide a small help for all the people using such stations ?

Kind regards,
TheRack.

 

[shaneturner12]

Hello to everybody,

As a Trainz user since 2004, I can only confirm the bug mentionned by Shane in his first post. As many other users, I'm using stations created in 2006 (the AJS stations). I have a huge map with a lot of these stations actually made with TS2010. Those stations are working for trains you're driving, but as soon as you have AI trains with schedules, passengers will no longer load (and unload of course) passengers. For what I've seen, this bug wasn't present before TRS2009 and was working in TRS2006 (I didn't try it already). So something changed since 2006 in the way the passenger stations are handled, otherwise those stations would work with AI trains as well.

Other stations don't have that problem, but I don't feel to change all the 50 stations of my map each time a new version of Trainz make some scripts obsolete.

I think the creator should update its stations, but unfortunately he seems not to answer. But could N3V provide a small help for all the people using such stations ?

Kind regards,
TheRack.

I hope so as well, especially as I've found it's not just one creator that is affected by the problem, and based on off-forum communication, it appears that the problem has been confirmed by N3V as being present in the latest version, and I am aware of issues at least as far back as TS2009, but it sounds like it could stretch back further (which seems to make me wonder if what I stated in the first post may well be part of it).

Shane

 

[TheRack]

So, after many days and hours spent to try to make a realistic station behaviour, I must come to the conclusion that Trainz is unable to perform one simple task :

1) Stop at a station : here the 'call at' or 'drive to' commands disfunction as they make your train stop long before the station and at very reduced speed, so they're useless.
2) Open their doors
3) Unload and load passengers
4) Keep doors open until the correspondancy train arrives, open its doors and unload/load its own passengers
5) Close doors of both trains
6) Both trains go to next destinations

I tried the 'Load Passengers', 'Door control', 'Call at', 'Drive to', 'Stop train', 'Load', 'Unload', 'Notify', 'Wait for X sec', 'Wait for message and clear' commands in all possibiliy imaginable ways, nothing helps. The problem is that as soon as the station takes control of the train (that is required to unload and load the passengers), there is no way to keep the doors open. One could only re-open them after they closed, what is surely very realistic.

Can somebody confirm this problem or tell me a way to achieve this correctly ? It would be very helpful.

As for the AJS stations, Andy told me he doesn't have the newest versions of Trainz, so he is not able to correct the problem. So I decided to create my own passengers stations, but with the above explained problem, gameplay will be much less realistic and enjoyable.

Kind regards to all Trainz users and brainbrakers
TheRack.

 

[AntonyVW]

As for the AJS stations, Andy told me he doesn't have the newest versions of Trainz, so he is not able to correct the problem. So I decided to create my own passengers stations, but with the above explained problem, gameplay will be much less realistic and enjoyable.

Kind regards to all Trainz users and brainbrakers
TheRack.

If andy does not have the latest version of the game and is unable to correct the problem, surely as they are now built in assets, it should be N3V's responsibilty?

 

[shaneturner12]

I'm thinking that as well, and as N3V are well aware of the problem, hopefully they will look into sorting things out.

Shane

 

[TheRack]

Ok, I have found a workaround that seems to work with AJS stations. After hours and days of tests and researches and even tries to make my own stations, I found following solution for an AI traffic. I post it here so it may also help other players and builders. Commands are in 'quotes', comments in (brackets) :


A) Stations WITHOUT correspondency with another train :

1) 'Drive to trackmark' X
2) 'Stop Train', 'Stop Train', 'Stop Train' (the 'Stop Train' command has to be queued 3 times. This command actually stops the trains then let the station load and unload the passengers. This is how I could get the AJS stations to work. But why 3 times ? Because sometimes if your map is big or if you have many trains or lag, Trainz just 'jump' one 'Stop Train' command, sometimes even 2 commands. So with 3 commands, I'm sure that the train lets the station make its job)
3) 'Wait for' 10 sec (This is to avoid that the train continues its journey while the doors are still open)
4) 'Drive to trackmark' Y and so on…


B) A) Stations WITH correspondency with another train :

1) 'Drive to trackmark' X
2) 'Stop Train', 'Stop Train', 'Stop Train'
3) 'Passenger door control' : open doors left/right (This command impeds the train to close its doors because he's still waiting for another train)
4) 'Wait for' 5 sec (just a small gap here)
5) 'Post message' : Post message Alastair completed task 1 (This will tell the other train that this train is finished with loading/unloading passengers)
6) 'Wait for message and clear' : Wait for Alan completed task 1 (Here we wait for the message of the other train. Names of points 5 and 6 are inversed for the two trains)
7) 'Wait for' 10 sec
8) 'Drive to trackmark' Y and so on…


Both methods are working quite good for the few tests I've done.

Here is the list of the command kuids (they can all be downloaded on the DLS) :

'Drive to trackmark' : kuid <-3.11149>
Stop train' : kuid <131986.1020>
'Passenger door control' : kuid <57344.1015>
'Wait for' : kuid <-3.10090>
'Post message' : kuid <131986.1027>
'Wait for message and clear' : kuid <131986.1028>


Kind regards,
TheRack.

 

[Engineerkenny]

the thing i hate is when im pulling out with a long passenger train sometimes if im not over 2MPH it stops me and loads passengers on and off its soo anooying once i had a very very long passenger train and it stopped at least 5 times i tryed going to throttle 8 but i forgot about wheelslip and then thats when i kept getting suck till finally I was able to pull out