The Good Ol' Days

[Kris94]

http://www.oaklandmagazine.com/Oakland-Magazine/January-2008/When-Trains-Ruled-the-East-Bay/

What my second home area used to be in the early 1900s. Interesting article.

 

[BD1]

I thought this part was interesting:

snip~"Between 1936 and 1950 General Motors, along with Firestone and Standard Oil of California, bought out electric train systems in nearly 50 cities—including Los Angeles, New York, Detroit and St. Louis—through a holding company called National City Lines, and replaced those trains with buses. In 1946, National City Lines acquired a majority stake in the Key System, which stopped all local service two years later. Oakland and Berkeley’s city councils vehemently opposed the destruction of the Key line trains (though the chamber of commerce endorsed it), but the new owners were adamant that the only way to save the ailing Key System was to convert to buses. In 1948, the Supreme Court ruled against GM in United States v. National City Lines Inc., which said that GM was monopolizing sales of buses and supplies to its subsidiary companies. GM was fined a paltry $5,000, and each of its executives one dollar".

 

[JCitron]

They did some damage to Boston's Metropolitan Transit system back then as well. Boston and Cambridge lost some trolley lines in favor of buses where today if the trolley lines existed they would still be in use. In the early 1960s the idea of switching to buses was still in favor. People in charge were sold a bill of goods and feverishly continued the ripping up of the trolley system long after this. In 1961 or 1962 the Tremont Street line was removed along with the other South Boston lines. Sadly these too would be heavily used if this didn't happen.

Today the same mentality still exists and the "T" fought tooth and nail not to reopen the Jamaica Plains line to Forrest Hills station. This line was closed in the mid-1980s and mothballed. The residents wanted to reopen it, but the T refused. The issue was brought to court last year and the judge ruled in favor the T. Their grounds for not opening the line was pretty lame since they had just done some track maintenance on the mothballed tracks recently and the wires were new. Instead of opening the line for light rail vehicles, they're running these new Silverline hybrid buses on it. The Silverline is the new Bus Rapid Transit system the T was sold. These busses are not "rapid" at all and run at under 20mph. The same thing happened with the A-line to Watertown. They kept the track operating for non-revenue service to the shops after the line was shutdown in the early 1980s. Residents fought for this to be reopened as well and instead the T ripped up the tracks and put regular buses in instead.

John

 

[Blutorse4792]

While GM did some shady things, it should be noted that a lot of U.S. traction went belly up on its own. For example, the Eisenhower, Kennedy and Edens Expressways may have been the final nails in the coffins of the Roarin' Elgin and my beloved North Shore, but both of those lines were already in the red before WWII (Though that gave them both a bit of a boost).

I do find it somewhat amusing that many advocates of public light rail nowadays would've undoubtedly been rallying us against the "sinister transit barons" 80 years ago (Not directed at anybody here, just a trend I've noticed).

 

[bl4882]

Thanks for posting that article, Kris. Brought back a lot of memories of riding the trans-bay trains between North Oakland and SF. It was quite a ride.

Bernie

 

[Kris94]

While GM did some shady things, it should be noted that a lot of U.S. traction went belly up on its own. For example, the Eisenhower, Kennedy and Edens Expressways may have been the final nails in the coffins of the Roarin' Elgin and my beloved North Shore, but both of those lines were already in the red before WWII (Though that gave them both a bit of a boost).

And they said that due to increasing traffic on the streets that removing the streetcars and cable cars along with the trolley's would solve the issues but it only made it worse. And with all the hills and rapid growth in population only compounded the ordeal.

I do find it somewhat amusing that many advocates of public light rail nowadays would've undoubtedly been rallying us against the "sinister transit barons" 80 years ago (Not directed at anybody here, just a trend I've noticed).

Thanks for posting that article, Kris. Brought back a lot of memories of riding the trans-bay trains between North Oakland and SF. It was quite a ride.

Bernie

You've been on SP's Transbay Electric Train Service before??!!

 

[frogpipe]

Reminds me of back home in Baltimore... People stopped using the locals on the Northern Central Railway, so they stopped... the line was left to rot, pieces sold off, and in some places ripped out. Then 50 years later, they reclaimed the right of way and built a light rail along it's old right-o-way (the part the locals once used) and beyond.

The northern part was made a hiking/biking trail.

 

[SuperFudd]

Thanks for the article. No time to read it all now. Maybe tomorrow. I have also ridden the Key System trains over the bay, and the Richmond - San Rafael ferry.

 

[BobCass]

Kris: Thanks for sharing this article..

 

[bl4882]

@Kris. I recall riding the Key System Bay Bridge lines with my Grandmother when I was out of school. I don't recall riding any other carriers, or even if there still were other carriers by the time I first went on public transit, which would not have been before '52 or '53. We used to take the E or F line across the bridge, then switch to a cable car or streetcar in SF that would eventually take us to whatever destination we were going to there, usually Fisherman's Wharf. This was back in the early to mid-'50s before this was mostly a tourist trap.

Anyway, while Key System's trollies were long gone by then, at least as far as I could see then, bustification didn't kill the transbay service until 1958.

Bernie

 

[Euphod]

Well, as nostalgic as mooning over the old trolleys and streetcars may be, the truth is they only gave way to progress, in the way of the automobile, or in this case, the bus. Progress is often a two edged sword (although why anyone would prefer a single edged sword is beyond me), and what may have been progress then, may not be progress now. Of course GM and Firestone would lobby for (and perhaps engage in underhanded methods to obtain) superiority for the buses of the time, but who could blame them? Should they have anticipated the population densities that exist now? More rightly others in the governments of the time should have, if anyone. If they acted illegally, then they should have been prosecuted for that which they were. It seems fair to blame the court system for the lack of a punishment, but then they were probably as corrupt as they are today. Pity that it turned out this way, but it's a recurring story in many industries.

 

[Kris94]

@Kris. I recall riding the Key System Bay Bridge lines with my Grandmother when I was out of school. I don't recall riding any other carriers, or even if there still were other carriers by the time I first went on public transit, which would not have been before '52 or '53. We used to take the E or F line across the bridge, then switch to a cable car or streetcar in SF that would eventually take us to whatever destination we were going to there, usually Fisherman's Wharf. This was back in the early to mid-'50s before this was mostly a tourist trap.

Anyway, while Key System's trollies were long gone by then, at least as far as I could see then, bustification didn't kill the transbay service until 1958.

Bernie

What was the key system like? Where did it operate? What year did it go out? Sorry about the questions.

 

[817TAYLOR]

Finally Kris something you and I can agree on
the interurbans will forever rule the rails

 

[Kris94]

Finally Kris something you and I can agree on
the interurbans will forever rule the rails

Well IDk about the agreeing part or the interurban rails being the king of intercity transportation mode. But I guess we both dearly miss those times although I was born well after those days where long gone. So I guess another thing of saying I never had the chance to experience those days.

 

[bl4882]

@Kris: I have your previous post, but am a bit occupied with things at the moment. Will respond to you as soon as I can.

I would like to mention quickly, though, that newer and more modern is not necessarily better, or, maybe more to the point, what was considered a thoroughly modern system in 1955 would not be accepted as a bare minimum today. As far as I know, the Key System, even in the waning years, provided faster service across the Bay than BARTD does today. I won't judge what was better, but only point out this. All the rails, on Linden, and Adeline, and 40th Street in Oakland, were paved over or pulled up in about 1958, and by 1960 in November, the voters of Alameda, San Francisco, Santa Clara, San Mateo counties were asked to approve a new sales tax to recreate the very same system that had been in existence two years before, at the cost of about a billion dollars (not an exaggeration and a fraction of the actual cost). Needless to say, there was a tad bit of resistance, and San Mateo and Santa Clara counties refused to participate. :hehe: I remember the campaign because I was working for the JF Kennedy presidential campaign at the time of the 1960 general election and no one would touch it with a 10 Parsec cattle prod. People were miffed considering there was a perfectly functional high speed commute system that had been in operation from Union City and Albany to San Francisco for about 100 years that had just been destroyed.

Well, enough. It was possible to go anywhere in the Bay Area to anywhere else in the Bay Area on rail. The system that was lost instead of modernized has yet to be rebuilt.

Bernie

 

[Kris94]

​Well BART is lagging from what I've heard.

 

[rjhowie]

Fascinating insight into what once, was. Sad too it's gone.

 

[Kris94]

Fascinating insight into what once, was. Sad too it's gone.

Couldn't have put it better myself. Basically sums up the railroad industry in general.

 

[Blutorse4792]

Ah, you've got to look at it with a brighter perspective. Sure, many of our favorite roads are gone, and there are fewer railroads in general, but we're entering a new era of U.S. railroading. Our remaining freight railroads are more successful then ever, and our freight network is considered the best in the world. Plus, you never know, look at all of the new shortlines that came about as the big railroads were cutting back in the 1980s.

 

[Kris94]

Ah, you've got to look at it with a brighter perspective. Sure, many of our favorite roads are gone, and there are fewer railroads in general, but we're entering a new era of U.S. railroading. Our remaining freight railroads are more successful then ever, and our freight network is considered the best in the world. Plus, you never know, look at all of the new shortlines that came about as the big railroads were cutting back in the 1980s.

But we're still behind Japan and Europe for passenger train service. Our freight train system is better but still poor. During WWII was when the railroad industry was considered to be in it's prime.