Still dangerous work, even today...

[Euphod]

My condolences to the families.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/story/2012-06-24/okla-train-crash/55797910/1?csp=34news

 

[Euphod]

Another update:

http://www.firehouse.com/news/10733756/three-people-killed-after-trains-collide-in-oklahoma

The main question seems to be, "Why did one of the consists fail to go 'into the hole'?"

 

[cascaderailroad]

Since switches are thrown from thousands of miles distant, via satellite ... CTC operator error, signal error, sunblinding, excessive speed, braking that did not stop in time (sliding through passing siding escapements), all could have played into the senario ... we all know just how difficult it is to control a mile long 140 car, 15,000 ton consist in Trainz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAC95ms7hCI

Picture you, driving these trains, which are unstoppable:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ozdu4CqOAI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnOKIkhwPuA&feature=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03Nq632eV6I&feature=related

Unrelated:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=D-8gV4DJZUw

 

[Euphod]

True. Mostly likely "human error" rears it's ugly head once again.

 

[jjanmarine3]

True. Mostly likely "human error" rears it's ugly head once again.

True.
I was crew member and supervisor on recovery teams for many years.
Unbelievable damage and wreckage, seen it all and got used to it , but one never gets used to the lives that are lost.
- 85% human error I would say, if not more.

 

[Bob5446]

Conjecture is rarely a good idea but it seems most likely one train took a siding and ran straight through it and the switch at the other end. Very sad - railroading is a dangerous and hard job. Terrible for friends and families when things like this happen.

 

[JCitron]

Very sad. I'm sure the NTSB investigation will help us all understand what went wrong. From what I read in the article is a witness saw one of the trains slowing down, which I would assume is true if he received a red over yellow. The witness also said that the other train just continued barreling along at 65-plus mph. So far the preliminary NTSB work has shown everything in working order. I agree Ed, this to me looks like human error somewhere, but we're all speculating on what happened.

John

 

[butter]

Just what I've read lately, they are saying the fuel and fire was so hot that it melted and appeared to weld the locomotives together.

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody.
As someone who works in the British Road Haulage safety the first thing you are always taught when you start learning is that there is no such thing as an accident, someone is always responsible. Even when an incident is caused by equipment failure someone somewhere is responsible for that failure. You may have to go as far back with your enquiries as the person who designed the equipment and determine that it was his failure while the plans were still on the drawing board. It may well be that it was his/her human error at that stage which will go on to cause people's death perhaps many years later

If it was not equipment failure but human error by a driver/engineer then it becomes imperative that you find out why he/she acted the way they did in not following set procedures or overriding safety systems if a similar incident is to be avoided in the future. These enquiries often cause great additional distress to the work colleagues, friends and family of those killed or maimed. The enquiries will have to look at such things as was drink or drugs involved, and if so are there company procedures in place that should have prevented the any person taking the controls of a vehicle/locomotive while under the influence of drink or drugs.

Further enquiries would look into if the driver/engineer had personal problems such as relationships with a partner or family or financial problems that were causing them distress and perhaps loss of concentration while working. As stated all these enquiries have to take place immediately following the incident and the questions often have to be asked at a time when all those that knew the person(s) who have died are already distressed and unaware of the questioning of them that is about to take place.

Enquiries such as the above can often take many months to complete with court orders needed to obtain details of financial arrangements, divorce/partnership breakup procedures or child accessibility orders all which may have played a part in the incident/accident. Eventually a picture will emerge of the root cause of what happened. Procedures can then be put in place to as far as reasonably possible prevent a future occurrence of the same situation.

In the meantime it is best not to speculate and let the enquiries take their course. The foregoing is for the good of those already involved and also those who at this point in time do not know they are about to become involved.

Bill

Posted from a Taunton to Cardiff very rattly DMU.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Apparently it is a single track line, and the second train couldn't stop in time, and rear ended the first train.

In Trainz this is an everpresent problem, as it is in the prototype.

 

[jjanmarine3]

Apparently it is a single track line, and the second train couldn't stop in time, and rear ended the first train.

In Trainz this is an everpresent problem, as it is in the prototype.

I recall a bad accident in Swaziland where a locomotive failed on a train and a technician was sent out to attend to the failure.
It was decided that the driver in the train behind the failed train may push forward, because they knew exactly where the failed train was, but communications had failed and this driver was sent to go help with his two locomotives. Meanwhile the fitter had repaired the failed locomotive temporily and they also decided to push back to the nearest station and the trains met where they were not expected to.

 

[butter]

From the way I take operations here, the closest train to the siding, would divert and stop; eventually calling off that they are in the siding, and while this is happening the opposing traffic would be at stand still at the signal before the diversion track. They wouldnt move until given the clear through an operator, or through engine to engine contact.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Unfortuneately very few radio transmissions are ever made between train crews and dispatchers ... a train crew is running totally blind, trusting, and hoping that the CTC operators computers 2000 miles distant, are throwing the correct switch's, and displaying correct signals for them ...

Suddenly as you round a bend, traveling at high track speeds, out of the blue you blast through an unseen red signal, picking switch points, and there 1/4 of a mile ahead is a stopped train ... apply the Emergency brake ... but it's too late to stop ... shout to the conductor "Jump" "Make like the birds" !

One conducter did jump for his life. Whether it was 2 trains traveling in opposite directions ... IDK ... but they reported that it was a single track line.

Real railroads don't have AI drivers

 

[Euphod]

I respect any trainman that has the fortitude to "jump" without hesitation when circumstances call for it. I'm not sure I would have the courage, even knowing that death is imminent. Think about that scenario for a minute, the ballast and rocks and fences and signs and culverts and any number of hard, sharp objects whizzing by, and your only choice is to leap off the train into them! That's a courageous decision, to be sure.

 

[JCitron]

Hi Everybody.
As someone who works in the British Road Haulage safety the first thing you are always taught when you start learning is that there is no such thing as an accident, someone is always responsible. Even when an incident is caused by equipment failure someone somewhere is responsible for that failure. You may have to go as far back with your enquiries as the person who designed the equipment and determine that it was his failure while the plans were still on the drawing board. It may well be that it was his/her human error at that stage which will go on to cause people's death perhaps many years later

If it was not equipment failure but human error by a driver/engineer then it becomes imperative that you find out why he/she acted the way they did in not following set procedures or overriding safety systems if a similar incident is to be avoided in the future. These enquiries often cause great additional distress to the work colleagues, friends and family of those killed or maimed. The enquiries will have to look at such things as was drink or drugs involved, and if so are there company procedures in place that should have prevented the any person taking the controls of a vehicle/locomotive while under the influence of drink or drugs.

Further enquiries would look into if the driver/engineer had personal problems such as relationships with a partner or family or financial problems that were causing them distress and perhaps loss of concentration while working. As stated all these enquiries have to take place immediately following the incident and the questions often have to be asked at a time when all those that knew the person(s) who have died are already distressed and unaware of the questioning of them that is about to take place.

Enquiries such as the above can often take many months to complete with court orders needed to obtain details of financial arrangements, divorce/partnership breakup procedures or child accessibility orders all which may have played a part in the incident/accident. Eventually a picture will emerge of the root cause of what happened. Procedures can then be put in place to as far as reasonably possible prevent a future occurrence of the same situation.

In the meantime it is best not to speculate and let the enquiries take their course. The foregoing is for the good of those already involved and also those who at this point in time do not know they are about to become involved.

Bill

Posted from a Taunton to Cardiff very rattly DMU.

Bill,

Very interesting insight into the procedure for investigating the cause of accidents. I feel very badly for the victims in these circumstances. Sadly it's not just those maimed or killed who are the victims. Coworkers and family will have to feel this the rest of their lives.

You might be interested in visiting the US National Transportation Safety Board website http://www.ntsb.gov/

They have the investigation results of all kinds of accidents whether they be rail, road, air, or water. The detailed reports are not at all gruesome, but point out the causes of the accidents including the more famous CalTrans accident a few years ago, as well as many older ones such as the one that occurred in the greater Washington DC area a couple of decades ago.

John