Steam vs. Diesel Who would Win

[gtasa]

i was wondering if a steam engine and a diesel were pulling a 100-car train up

a 2% grade.



who would win?

 

[zues]

All I can say is test it.

 

[Euphod]

a steam engine and a diesel

Not a very specific question, maybe you want to narrow the parameters down a bit?

 

[skol587]

based on the lose circumstances the steam engine has more tractive effort but the steam locomotive dose not have the low end torque of a diesel

 

[cascaderailroad]

In Trainz I have seen a single small switcher pull a rediculously long cut of cars, uphill...likewise with steam locos, a bit unrealistic...

However in the prototype, its a totally different thing. Modern diesels are superior. On the prototype PRR, it usually it took 3 or more steamers to pull even a midsize train up over "the curve". Quite a spectacle...multiple steam locos on the Horseshoe !Steam was basicly for speed, as the drive wheels were often 72" or larger...once they got going...wow !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JBlXqH75uY See: 8:55 seconds-Camera gets taken out by cowcatcher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeVeuudxzg4&feature=player_embedded See: 1:44 seconds for wheelslip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt6v30XcoTw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE-24DC_tQk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFdribS6A3o See: 0:35 seconds-Pickup truck gets creamed by PRR #1361
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avEJNDvYLlQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIQVU-k5mpc

 

[SuperFudd]

There were large articulated steam locos that could not go faster that about 40 mph as I recall but could pull a bunch up hill.

 

[illinoiscentral]

It really depends on what type we are talking about.
AC4400CW vs 2-8-0?
SD70ACe vs. 4-6-6-4?
SD40-2 VS. 4-6-6-4?

I would go for steam for its shear power on the type of mechanical setup, however AC traction would be a huge advantage for a diesel.

 

[bendorsey]

This is really like trying to compare apples and oranges.

A steam loco generates zero horsepower at rest and is designed to generate maximum horsepower at some designated speed. A diesel generates maximum horsepower at any speed including at rest (if someone firewalls the throttle). Diesels have the electrical equivalent of a gearbox. Steamers can change the amount of time steam is injected into the cylinders (cutoff).

Not easily comparable under any circumstances but the modern diesel would win (bummer), lol.

Ben

 

[whistlehead]

But the Big Boy had to be replaced with FIVE diesels, remember? That was before the MEGA diesel horsepower days though.

 

[jadebullet]

It depends on the locomotives in question.

The Reading N1 Mallets and K1s were eventually replaced by 2 AS16s or an ABA combination of F3s or F7s. It is mainly about maintanance.

 

[skol587]

the heaver the locomotive the higher the tractive effort thats the only reason why they run multiple units on a modern freight train

 

[bendorsey]

More like maintainence and efficiency. A steamer is an external combustion engine - a diesel is an internal combustion engine. Far more efficient. How much fuel and water did a bigboy use per mile? I've heard as much as a ton of coal and 2 or 3 times as much water (and yes - that seems a bit high) but in any case its a heck of a lot more fuel then however many diesels had to be used to replace it (but I still say bring em back, lol).
Ben

 

[gtasa]

A Bigboy and a AC6000 against each other

 

[David111767]

A Bigboy and a AC6000 against each other

The bigboy would win that one. The AC6000 has a max hp of 6000, but the big boy could produce over 6290 drawbar horsepower, and if it didn't use poor wyoming coal, it would probably have more.

Now something to see would be a bigboy and a DDA40X, which has a output of 6600 horsepower.

 

[LMS_MAN]

I'd say its really unfair to compare as no steam loco design has the benefit of computers to help in its development. A steamloco developed in the same way as diesels have since the last steam locos were built may ell be more than a match for a modern diesel.

Personally, I'd say its only fair to compare steam & diesel locos designed at the same time in the past.

Is a modern steam drven turbine far more efficient than one from the 1930s? Is it fair to compare them?

 

[nikos1]

A Bigboy and a AC6000 against each other

AC6000's were not even meant for pulling power, so its a rather poor comparison. A ballasted AC44 would be better for heavy haul up hill.

But yeah a rather poor comparison, there are so many more factors that have to be taken into account.

 

[bendorsey]

A really interesting question would be:

Considering the advances in all the sciences and technologies - would it be possible today to build a steam loco that would be more efficient then a diesel?

Ben

 

[transitguard]

Yes, it does make a person wonder... especially if they made a steam electric so traction control could be utilized.

 

[bendorsey]

Consider boiler pressure. Toward the end of steam several experimental locos were running 500 to 600 psi. With the advances in metalurgy, materials, design, etc it shouldn't be difficult to raise that to close to 1000 psi.

Ben

 

[transitguard]

And on top of that, computer control. Cut-off, fuel/water feeding rate, and efficiency could all be computer monitored and controlled while being supervised by a human being.