Speed Signs, and when / where to place them

ish6

Since 2001
Hello Everyone,

In recent weeks I have started threads to further my knowledge on how to properly place specific items on routes, like my Signal thread; And that thread has began my encyclopedia on placing signals -- I've gotten great feedback about placing signals with diagrams and screenshotz to go along with their explanation, so now I am back to ask about Speed signs!

I've been in trainz forever, I have thousands of items at the DLS; But yet, like signals, I don't know much about speed signs on layouts! So, I ask because I don't want to over use speed signs: when and where do I place speed signs?

Example: every mile / KM; By the signals; Or by themselves; Or on curves; Before Bridges; Before entering terminals, or stations; at Yards, etc etc ...

Any feedback on this subject will be welcome, of course!
Thank you, all!
Ish
 
A lower speedboard is read by the lead loco of a consist, ... a higher speedboard is read when the last car of a consist passes

If you have a 1 mile long consist speedboads should be placed a a bit more than 1 mile appart (closer together it you use shorter consists)

I use invisible speedboard by Biddle ... generally a 10mph (or metric equivilent) is as far as you want to go low as, a 5mph speedboard will have a train hunting and pecking along at 5, then 10, 3, 6, 2, mph ... etc ...

If you have a 40 mph speed track, and place a 10 mph speedboard, with a 20mph speedboard immediately right after each other (1 tie apart) the lead loco will instantly slow to 10mph, then the rear car will speed it up to 20mph

40-------------10-20---------------40
 
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Ish,

I place them so that the AI will be aware and as Cascade says a bit more than the longest consist, except for in junction areas where there maybe slower or faster lines coming together. I sometimes place them when I place the intermediate signals as the spacing works out that way while others happen to fall in between.

The AI overall act "smarter" when it comes to speed limits so that they don't speed up to slow down like they did before when it comes to busy junctions and end up running signals. There is also no need to start reducing speed in increments anymore since the AI will start reducing their speed once they sense an upcoming slower speed. If you recall with TRS2006 to TRS02010 we had to use decrementing speed signs for approaching yards and busy junctions.

One of my methods is to set a speed and go for a ride along a stretch of track. If a section proves to be too much like an amusement park ride, I'll adjust the track speed for that section and give it a try again. This is a bit of trial and error initially, but then you'll notice you'll have a hunch on what speed to use for that kind of condition in the future and make that decision to use a slower speed for a curve when you're placing your initial speed limit signs. Really sharp curves, sidings, and old branch lines of course are at the slowest speeds as well as yards. Speaking of yards... I keep them between 15 and 20 mph with engine facilities being much slower.

For open track with long sweeping curves, my speeds are in the 65 to 70mph range and for tighter curves, I'll reduce the speed to the 40s, or slower depending on the sharpness. Now keep in mind the AI will increase speed once the complete consist is through the slower speed limit, but slow down immediately before so you can place your resumed higher speed in the middle of the sharp curve and they AI will still not be up to full speed until they pass on to the straight track. This will of course be determined by the length of the curved area. You'll need to fiddle with this for optimal speed. In some cases, you'll end up placing the faster speed again at the end of the curve rather than the middle.

In really busy areas, I will mix both invisible and visible speed limits. For the invisible speed limits, I use the ones that begin with Invisible Speed Limit by socalwb909 These are out of the way and snap on the track directly.

There are two really nice speed limit signs I've used lately. Speed B-series by bnsf50, and again socalwb909's Speed Limit Sign-series. They have nice details and don't get in the way like the old-fashioned gigantic white speed limit signs used to be.

John
 
A lower speedboard is read by the lead loco of a consist, ... a higher speedboard is read when the last car of a consist passes

If you have a 1 mile long consist speedboads should be placed a a bit more than 1 mile appart (closer together it you use shorter consists)

I use invisible speedboard by Biddle ... generally a 10mph (or metric equivilent) is as far as you want to go low as, a 5mph speedboard will have a train hunting and pecking along at 5, then 10, 3, 6, 2, mph ... etc ...

If you have a 40 mph speed track, and place a 10 mph speedboard, with a 20mph speedboard immediately right after each other (1 tie apart) the lead loco will instantly slow to 10mph, then the rear car will speed it up to 20mph

40-------------10-20---------------40

Hello Cas,

This is confusing to me:

"A lower speedboard is read by the lead loco of a consist, ... a higher speedboard is read when the last car of a consist passes"

Also, why use invisible speed signs? What's there purpose?

Thanks
Ish
 
Ish,

I place them so that the AI will be aware and as Cascade says a bit more than the longest consist, except for in junction areas where there maybe slower or faster lines coming together. I sometimes place them when I place the intermediate signals as the spacing works out that way while others happen to fall in between.

The AI overall act "smarter" when it comes to speed limits so that they don't speed up to slow down like they did before when it comes to busy junctions and end up running signals. There is also no need to start reducing speed in increments anymore since the AI will start reducing their speed once they sense an upcoming slower speed. If you recall with TRS2006 to TRS02010 we had to use decrementing speed signs for approaching yards and busy junctions.

One of my methods is to set a speed and go for a ride along a stretch of track. If a section proves to be too much like an amusement park ride, I'll adjust the track speed for that section and give it a try again. This is a bit of trial and error initially, but then you'll notice you'll have a hunch on what speed to use for that kind of condition in the future and make that decision to use a slower speed for a curve when you're placing your initial speed limit signs. Really sharp curves, sidings, and old branch lines of course are at the slowest speeds as well as yards. Speaking of yards... I keep them between 15 and 20 mph with engine facilities being much slower.

For open track with long sweeping curves, my speeds are in the 65 to 70mph range and for tighter curves, I'll reduce the speed to the 40s, or slower depending on the sharpness. Now keep in mind the AI will increase speed once the complete consist is through the slower speed limit, but slow down immediately before so you can place your resumed higher speed in the middle of the sharp curve and they AI will still not be up to full speed until they pass on to the straight track. This will of course be determined by the length of the curved area. You'll need to fiddle with this for optimal speed. In some cases, you'll end up placing the faster speed again at the end of the curve rather than the middle.

In really busy areas, I will mix both invisible and visible speed limits. For the invisible speed limits, I use the ones that begin with Invisible Speed Limit by socalwb909 These are out of the way and snap on the track directly.

There are two really nice speed limit signs I've used lately. Speed B-series by bnsf50, and again socalwb909's Speed Limit Sign-series. They have nice details and don't get in the way like the old-fashioned gigantic white speed limit signs used to be.

John

Hello John,

Understood, sir -- Will down those items, for sure!

However, same question I asked Cas ... what would be the purpose of using invisible speed signs?

Thanks
Ish
 
Hello John,

Understood, sir -- Will down those items, for sure!

However, same question I asked Cas ... what would be the purpose of using invisible speed signs?

Thanks
Ish

Those invisible signs work where you don't want to see speed limit signs like sticking up in the middle of nearby tracks where the tracks are close together as in a yard. Other than that they work the same.
 
Those invisible signs work where you don't want to see speed limit signs like sticking up in the middle of nearby tracks where the tracks are close together as in a yard. Other than that they work the same.

oh, ok, I thought there something special about using them, beside the obvious fact you just detailed!;)

Thanks, John

Ish
 
I use millions of invisible signal, speedboards, and switch machines, as they only show in surveyor (unless you alter their config file to show: surveyor only 0)
 
This might be of some help (but might also be confusing):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_speed_limits_in_the_United_States
And before you ask the question "what is the class of something?", the answer is: Apparently there are track inspectors who give a piece of track a classification which results in the maximum speed.

Where to place the signs? Where the classification of a piece of track changes.

Thank you, O, for the information, sir!!!

Take Care
Ish
 
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