SOPA & PIPA - US Trainzers could be in trouble...

[PJAMA]

I'm surprised there wasn't a thread for this yet!

I don't mean to be very political here, but I'm sure most of you don't know that on January 24th of this year, the House of Representatives and Senate are about to pass bills known as SOPA & PIPA: The Stop Online Piracy Act and PROTECT-IP Act. These bills are meant to censor sites (Google, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, etc.) that may be infringing copyright. These bills will hurt everyone's freedom of expression and speech, not to mention tear an insecure hole in the fabric of the American Internet. This bill could hurt the integrity of the Download Station and the Integrity of many Trainz Players/Auran Customers in the United States. In laymens terms, you could get FINED, ARRESTED, or IMPRISONED for uploading copyrighted material, content, or fanart to the internet. I NEVER pirated ANYTHING in my entire life, and they're calling everyone thieves? I know most big industries like the MPAA and RIAA want to stop piracy, but this is NOT how you do it! Just because you have money and power, doesn't mean you can do whatever you want! (Ironically, most Railroad Industries bribed the government as well back in the 1800's) This bill heavily goes against the 1st amendment as well as the Sherman Anti-Trust act, and must be stopped!

To sign the petition agaisnt SOPA & PIPA, go here.

I know most overseas Trainzers won't give a flying flop, because a majority of them live in Austrailia, Great Britian, Germany, Spain, and Russia. But on January 18th, most sites like Google, YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter are going to censor themselves (go dark) for the entire day to protest SOPA & PIPA, and I suggest that Auran and the Forums do the same.

Thanks for listening!

- Paul

 

[RRSignal]

I am 100% against SOPA and PIPA, but need to stress: If you oppose this legislation, WRITE your congresspersons a WRITTEN or TYPED letter via snail mail. DO NOT email or sign petitions. Signing petitions, especially online ones is

WORTHLESS!!!!!!!!

I can tell you firsthand that politicians (and their staffers) know that people too lazy to actually sit down and write a letter are too lazy to vote; 100,000 emails or names on a petition mean less than one typed, snail-mailed letter.

While we're on that subject, there's a saying in U.S. politics that 1 written letter is equivalent to 1,000 votes i.e. 999 people who feel strongly about an issue don't bother to or know how to get a letter to their congresspersons, so the power of the written letter is alive and well. Phone calls carry far less weight, but the logic among politicians and staffers is that, if you're smart enough to figure out who your congresscritter is, you're at least kinda serious.

Some tips:

Address your Congressman and Senator as, "The Honorable Senator Toomey" or "The Honorable Rep. Fitzpatrick" on both the letter and on the envelope. Try to write a professionally-formatted letter.

Be polite.

Don't be threatening or mean.

Generally, be brief, and highlight key points in your first sentence or two.

Bear in mind that SOPA and PIPA are being considered for FEDERAL LAW (Congressman/woman or Senator). Therefore, you need to know your FEDERAL representative, not STATE or COUNTY.

Make sure you send the letter to the right people i.e. your Congressperson. This is often the hardest part to figure out, as districts don't follow any kind of pattern; your neighbor a couple doors down could be in one district represented by a particular Congressperson while you're in another, and you're in the same town and zip code. You can often find out who your Congressperson is by contacting your city hall.

While I don't believe SOPA or PIPA have made it to Senate consideration yet, every state has two Senators, so it's much easier to find out who both of yours are at www.senate.gov.

"Congress" is a generic term that CAN refer to both the House and Senate. As used for the purposes of lobbying, Congressman/woman refers to the House, which is the portion of the legislature currently seriously considering SOPA and PIPA. The other half, the Senate, must come up with their own version of same. Then the House votes on their version and the Senate votes on their version and if each approve the bill, the House and Senate work together to match their versions (i.e. the Devil's in the details - this is where a lot of bad stuff happens). However, it's a good idea to write both your Senators as well since they will probably just copy the House version.

 

[hert]

Yes, I am against SOPA too. Cant believe it made it this far. And just because you dont live in the USA doesnt mean that this wont affect you. If it passes you may see the removal of YouTube all together.

hert:wave:

 

[Gandalf0444]

I agree with RRsignal to a degree. But on the other hand how many of our Joe Schmo letters do you think they actually read?:hehe:

 

[RRSignal]

I agree with RRsignal to a degree. But on the other hand how many of our Joe Schmo letters do you think they actually read?:hehe:

That's what staffers and interns are for. They write down summary or whiz sheets that tally generally opposition or support and salient points. Many if not most work for free for college or other credit.

 

[Gandalf0444]

That's what staffers and interns are for. They write down summary or whiz sheets that tally generally opposition or support and salient points. Many if not most work for free for college or other credit.

That maybe the case but do you really think they actually care what you, me or any other normal person wants? Does anyone really fully believe that they actually care about you? I sure as hell don't.:hehe: They pass what they think we need or want not what we need or want.
It is all about the mighty dollar here folks. If you have enough money to lobby then your bill will no doubt pass, which in this case it will most likely will as the industries backing this have deeper pockets then any other industry or government, they can still write out massive checks, unlike the government who is trillions in debt is still manages to have a check book, while if you or I get in debt 100 bucks our check book gets taken away.

 

[RRSignal]

That maybe the case but do you really think they actually care what you, me or any other normal person wants? Does anyone really fully believe that they actually care about you? I sure as hell don't.:hehe: They pass what they think we need or want not what we need or want.
It is all about the mighty dollar here folks. If you have enough money to lobby then your bill will no doubt pass, which in this case it will most likely will as the industries backing this have deeper pockets then any other industry or government, they can still write out massive checks, unlike the government who is trillions in debt is still manages to have a check book, while if you or I get in debt 100 bucks our check book gets taken away.

Do they care about us? No. But do they care about retaining their jobs? You bet!. The money works because, mostly, they can pay for advertisements and, secondarily, for GOTV (Get Out The Vote). But people who take the time to write can't be bought; in a sense, however, they effectively own.

 

[Euphod]

Do they care about us? No. But do they care about retaining their jobs? You bet!. The money works because, mostly, they can pay for advertisements and, secondarily, for GOTV (Get Out The Vote). But people who take the time to write can't be bought; in a sense, however, they effectively own.

But if "Occupy" has it's way no one will be able to spend money on political ads....
The letters are read and tallied to the point of support for the "yea" or "nay" of a particular issue. That's not to say the decision is based on that alone, but the politician will weigh the advantage or disadvantage of going against popular sentiment, and compare that to the amount of money or re-election support he or she may or may not recieve.

 

[JohnnyC1]

I thought that the Republicans were against big government? Must be wrong!

John

 

[Euphod]

I thought that the Republicans were against big government? Must be wrong!

John

Who has assigned blame for this to any particular group? The Dems control the Senate and the Executive branch, how is this the Republican's fault?

 

[bl4882]

There has been some attention paid to this issue in the last couple of days.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/14/white-house-sopa-pipa_n_1206347.html and

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitio...while-protecting-open-and-innovative-internet

Unfortunately, the "debate" contains a whole lot of undefined, normative terms, rather than positive ones that actually contain specific meaning. So a politician can easily contend that he will oppose any bill that "diminishes" free "distribution" of "information" and vote for both of these bills on the ground what it does does not do any of those three things.

I would be a lot more comfortable about the outcome of all of this if we did not have scoundrels and madmen ready to grab as much power as they can for our legislators. Bills like these, from Republicans and Democrats alike, are the reason why Congress's popular approval rating ranks right up there with Enron and Bernie Madoff.

Write a letter making the connection of their jobs and defeat of these bills clear.

Bernie (not Madoff)

 

[JohnnyC1]

Who has assigned blame for this to any particular group? The Dems control the Senate and the Executive branch, how is this the Republican's fault?

It does not matter, the Rep control the House and the Dems control the Senate, this bill will add more government control of your life. Remember the DHS & the TSA. If you travel and take aircraft/RR pictures you will run across the friendly folks of the TSA. Heck, it's not even safe to be a nerd anymore and sit in your car and take pictures with out being stopped!

John

 

[Dinorius_Redundicus]

....I don't mean to be very political here....

- Paul

Really?? I guess all these replies have been 'off topic' then.:hehe:

 

[PerRock]

I am 100% against SOPA and PIPA, but need to stress: If you oppose this legislation, WRITE your congresspersons a WRITTEN or TYPED letter via snail mail. DO NOT email or sign petitions. Signing petitions, especially online ones is

WORTHLESS!!!!!!!!

I can tell you firsthand that politicians (and their staffers) know that people too lazy to actually sit down and write a letter are too lazy to vote; 100,000 emails or names on a petition mean less than one typed, snail-mailed letter.

If online petitions are worthless, explain why the White House has recently released a statement (linked a few posts up) in response to TWO online petitions.

Also just an FYI for everyone; a number of big names in the internet world (Google, Amazon, Yahoo to name a few) rumored* to be threatening a boycott if this bill passes. So don't be surprised to find a lot of stuff on the internet being unavailable due to the boycott.

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...er-considering-nuclear-option-to-protest-sopa

*I've seen this same report on a couple tech-news websites, however have not seen it reported on any main-stream news sites yet (however I haven't looked to hard.)

peter

 

[RRSignal]

If online petitions are worthless, explain why the White House has recently released a statement (linked a few posts up) in response to TWO online petitions.

The Whitehouse is making a big deal of this because it is a very high-profile issue, it's as simple as that; petitions have nothing substantial to do with it. Ever hear of publicity? Controversy? The predecessor to SOPA, Senate Bill S.978, was also quite high-profile. SOPA has been and now is front-page, above-the-cutline news. You yourself MENTIONED many of the key reasons why: Google, Yahoo, Amazon...

Also, Mr. Obama is making a calculated play to his base, to some degree. Younger voters overwhelmingly voted for him in 2008, and the role of the internet played heavily into that. I'd cite some potentially controversial examples, but do I really need to explain the ABCs of politics?

That online petitions are worthless is not news to anybody, although there are still some slacktivists who would love to believe otherwise, mostly because they are too lazy to write a letter if they can even figure out who their representatives are in the first place.

The worst part about online petitions, and slacktivism in general, is that they lead participants to believe they've done something when they've done absolutely nothing at all.

And if you REALLY want to see how seriously congresspersons and their staffers take online petitions, try volunteering with them for an extended period, or do some grassroots work with a well-established lobbying group. The (lack of) respect they have for online petitions can be quite entertaining.

P.S. I'd love more than anybody to be able to sign a petition and have my will done. Probably so would most people, hence there's a reason why it doesn't work.

 

[amigacooke]

DO NOT email or sign petitions. Signing petitions, especially online ones is

WORTHLESS!!!!!!!!

Well that may depend on where you live.

HM Government e-petitions


http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/

 

[RRSignal]

Well that may depend on where you live.

HM Government e-petitions

Yes, I've been following the Guardian's series on petitions, but I'm curious to know if any major policy, especially economic policy, has been influenced by e-petitions. Evidently, there's a minimum number of signatures (100,000?) that a petition must get in order to even be looked at by parliament. I don't think the U.S. has a hard-and-fast number, but I do know from first-hand experience that congresscritters don't usually take them seriously regardless of the number of signatures.

 

[Gandalf0444]

Yes, I've been following the Guardian's series on petitions, but I'm curious to know if any major policy, especially economic policy, has been influenced by e-petitions. Evidently, there's a minimum number of signatures (100,000?) that a petition must get in order to even be looked at by parliament. I don't think the U.S. has a hard-and-fast number, but I do know from first-hand experience that congresscritters don't usually take them seriously regardless of the number of signatures.

Which is how the government gets away with what it does. Even if the people disagree and use a method such as a petition on the internet, that should STILL count as the will of THE PEOPLE. It should not matter how you voice your opinion. If 1 million people sign a petition on the internet I think that is an over whelming number compared to the few hundred if not less that took the time to write a letter and say the same thing.
The decisions are supposed to be made on a majority type vote not ok these 20 people wrote me but these 200,000 signed the petition so these 20 people are the ones I agree with. Sorry no, 200,000 is the number they are SUPPOSED to go with. Unless there is another equal number on the opposing side of the argument or greater number, then you would be at a stalemate and have to vote on your personnel view only, or vote for the other side who has more of a mass.

 

[CPman117]

youtubers railfanners trainzers gamers content creators of the United States of America We are faceing a threat that is domestic(thats a change for once) this could shutdown youtube and anything associated with content creation and anything like it Trainz and the whole content createing universe is at stake in the USA PROTECT THE CONSTITUITION

 

[RRSignal]

Which is how the government gets away with what it does. Even if the people disagree and use a method such as a petition on the internet, that should STILL count as the will of THE PEOPLE. It should not matter how you voice your opinion. If 1 million people sign a petition on the internet I think that is an over whelming number compared to the few hundred if not less that took the time to write a letter and say the same thing.
The decisions are supposed to be made on a majority type vote not ok these 20 people wrote me but these 200,000 signed the petition so these 20 people are the ones I agree with. Sorry no, 200,000 is the number they are SUPPOSED to go with. Unless there is another equal number on the opposing side of the argument or greater number, then you would be at a stalemate and have to vote on your personnel view only, or vote for the other side who has more of a mass.

I agree in principle, but if you actually work for or with a political office, you immediately see the other side of the coin with respect to petitions and electronic communications:

1. People who don't personally take the time to write their congressperson probably don't even know who he or she is.

2. If follows if they don't know who he or she is, they probably don't vote, or, if they do, they aren't savvy enough to remember a particular vote on a particular issue.

3. Petitions rarely target a specific representative of a particular area. Most tend to be generic (we'll send this to every representative and Senator!) and are thus meaningless. My congresscritter and Senators don't give a flying bleep what a signator in Maine or California thinks because they're not constituents and have no vote.

4. Emails and petitions are too easy. Again, the assumption (based almost entirely on experience across offices and levels of government) is that if you're not going to take the time to write a letter, odds are good you're not going to take the time to vote, let alone volunteer or write letters-to-the-editor in favor of a particular candidate.

5. Emails and petitions are easy to fake. Let's face it, they are. Even before the internet, the role of petitions was dubious; I remember signing a few but giving a fake name or fake address, because I didn't want to get on a mailing list and just wanted the free coffee mug they were giving away. Sorry, but that's just the truth. In the age of the internet, where we're EXPECTED to shield our identities at least a little (I'm pretty sure your real name isn't Gandalf 0444; I can assure you that mine isn't RR Signal), politicians don't expect too much accuracy and honesty from the relative anonymity of the internet. That's the perception, but based in fact (and, in all cases of which I'm aware, personal experience by the politician and his or her staffers!)

Related to that, it would take a few minutes for me to submit individual form emails in - EASILY - ten thousand different names, and I could do that just as easily in partition form as well. But, owing to the inherent costs of snail mail, most people don't have $4,400 to blow on postage. And, I haven't even gotten into spam-type programs that can modify messages' grammar and wording to differentiate one letter from another. Trust me, we know about that.


In summary, put yourself in the shoes of a representative or a staffer and think about all the things that can go wrong with or be abused using electronic communications like email and petitions, and you'll understand completely why they are not taken seriously.