Signals for decoration?

[kihara]

I am uncertain whether signals in Trainz are functional (i.e. are trains supposed to obey them?) or are they just supposed to make the layout look more realistic?
I am finding that some trains stop at a red signal, some don't; likewise they may or may not pay attention to green signals.
Perhaps I'm expecting too much of them?
All advice welcome.
Kihara.

 

[airtime]

Hello Kihara,

All signals should work in Trainz, without problems,

Green for go, line clear,
Double Yellow for caution, Usually used on High Speed Lines, for example East Coast Main Line or West Coast Main Line.
One Yellow for prepare to stop, Next signal may be Red
Red for stop.

If a train passes a red signal, also known as a S.P.A.D - Signal Passed At Danger, then either your train is going too fast with not a lot of warning of the red signal, or your train has a lot of weight behind it, pushing it along the track and forcing the train to pass the red signal, either of the above will result in a 2 minute time penalty in Trainz.

Try and place your signals at least a board away from each other, also reduce the speed of the line, that is, if it is heavily used by freight, so to give your train a better chance of stopping before a red signal.

Hope the above helps and let us know how you get on.

For a better explanation on UK Railway signals, click on link... http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/3-sigs/powersig.htm
For a full explanation of all UK railway practice and signals, click on link... http://www.signalbox.org/

Joe Airtime

 

[itareus]

...I am uncertain whether signals in Trainz are functional (i.e. are trains supposed to obey them?) or are they just supposed to make the layout look more realistic?....

Generally speaking signals are functional, although it is possible to create non functional ones.

...I am finding that some trains stop at a red signal, some don't; likewise they may or may not pay attention to green signals....

I presume that you are talking about AI trains here - when an AI train approaches a signal it looks to set the route ahead to it's AI assigned destination and will set the points on that route, this in turn allows the controlling signal to display a proceed aspect.

If you are creating a route then be careful about the precise positioning of signals. e.g that they are actually placed on the track they are controlling, are not placed in a way that might interfere with another asset by being within its trigger radius etc. This can be tricky in complex station areas.

Also if you have a route, especially one which is only partially signalled, then you may well get problems as two (or more) trains try to enter a section and their movements conflict

 

[pware]

I am finding that some trains stop at a red signal, some don't

Some signals, such as the ones that control a junction and show a left/right diverge aspect, have to be correctly configured otherwise they will only show red.

For example: The NSW Semaphore LD and RD signals. You have to select the "?" icon on the Track Objects - Signals window in Surveyor, then click on the signal and set the junction(s) it controls and the diverging train speed. Without this step the signal will still work (i.e. it will show an "invisible" green to an IA train) but will only show "red" on the screen.

Peter Ware

 

[JohnnyC1]

In interlocking territory signals are very close together and because of this closeness, train speeds should no be as high as they are on double track main lines. Also track marks should not be placed in close proximity to your signals, doing so will cause your trains to pass the signal if red.

John

 

[bl4882]

Generally speaking signals are functional, although it is possible to create non functional ones.

Hello Itareus,

I am interested in having nonfunctional signals for a number of reasons. Do you have a moment to explain how one would render a functioning signal nonfunctional?

Bernie

 

[itareus]

...how one would render a functioning signal nonfunctional?...

Bernie,

This could get complicated! It depends on a number of factors such as the type of signal - semaphore or colorlight and the "Trainz technical type" - scripted or unscripted. It also depends on exactly what you are trying to achieve.

If you look at a simple (unscripted) colorlight and, lets say, you wanted it to always show amber then you could clone a suitable signal and edit the config.txt file "signal" and "lights" tables to suit - all signal states to point to an amber corona. The trouble with this is that the signal is still active, just not showing the right light for the signal state. You can work around this to some extent with the "signal" table but since I have not done this I am not sure how reliable this would be in operation.

Another way would be to clone a suitable signal and change its "Kind" from "Mosignal" to "Scenery" and do some heavy editing on the config file, including attaching the required corona. This would not be an active signal just another scenery object.

Or of course you could create you own nonfunctional signals from scratch using Blender, GMax etc. You could then release these assets, which of course you can't do with the clones without permission of the original Author.

Hope this gives you some ideas.

Chris

 

[Lewiscc65]

You could place the signal on a piece of invisible track laid next to the visible track.

 

[itareus]

You could place the signal on a piece of invisible track laid next to the visible track.

That's far too simple !

A good solution if you are happy with the aspect that the signal will display. I would suggest placing the invisible track under (but not connected to) the visible track so that it does not show in the mini map.

 

[bl4882]

Thank you Itareus. I'll do some fiddling along the lines you've suggested, and also to you, Lewis. My problem is that I've created routes with prototypical track arrangements that in the real world rely on human intervention, and they would be a nightmare to try to signal and run with AI. My thought was to have nonfunctional signals for eye candy, but use invisible signals to control AI train movements to suit individual sessions/scenarios/layers, or whatever the jargon is in 2010.

Anyhow, you have both given me some starting points and I plan to make good use of them. Thanks.

Bernie

 

[kihara]

Signals for decoration

Thanks to all of you who have given me help and suggestions.
I should have made it clear that the problem is occurring when the trains are running under AI. They just ignore red signals, although they always stop short of the train in front, without a collision. In one place the train is confronted by a green signal but refuses to move. The usual message about a 'missing switch lever' appears but there is no junction or train for a long way ahead. If I jump in the cab and drive the train myself, ever so slowly, it always derails at the same point, close to another signal and at the entrance to a curve, radius approx. 70m., so obviously something is amiss here, though close examination of the track reveals nothing that I can see. I guess I'll just have to keep looking. Even if I find this fault, it still won't explain the irrelevance of the signals.
Thanks again for filling me in as to the general signalling picture.
Kihara.

 

[JCitron]

Thanks to all of you who have given me help and suggestions.
I should have made it clear that the problem is occurring when the trains are running under AI. They just ignore red signals, although they always stop short of the train in front, without a collision. In one place the train is confronted by a green signal but refuses to move. The usual message about a 'missing switch lever' appears but there is no junction or train for a long way ahead. If I jump in the cab and drive the train myself, ever so slowly, it always derails at the same point, close to another signal and at the entrance to a curve, radius approx. 70m., so obviously something is amiss here, though close examination of the track reveals nothing that I can see. I guess I'll just have to keep looking. Even if I find this fault, it still won't explain the irrelevance of the signals.
Thanks again for filling me in as to the general signalling picture.
Kihara.

What signals are you using? This might be part of your signalling problem.

For your track issue, try clicking on the track with the height adjustment tool. The track might be aligned, but split like it's missing a rail joiner. By clicking on the track, it fixes the joint and things should be okay.

Also when laying track, I've mistakenly made a small junction where two track joined. This produced a funny knot of track that had a missing junction lever. The track looked okay because the knot was under the ground and the route continued above it, but it sure drove me and the AI crazy until I could figure out what the problem is.

John

 

[kihara]

Signals for decoration

To JCitron
I originally posted this the day before yesterday, but it seems to have disappeared into the maw of the forum!
So first, the signals I'm using are type BR7.
Your other point hit the problem bang on the head: I did have a knot of rails hidden underground: when I'd disentangled these and deleted the loose ends the malfunction disappeared.
Thanks again.

John.

 

[Enkidoh]

Hello Itareus,

I am interested in having nonfunctional signals for a number of reasons. Do you have a moment to explain how one would render a functioning signal nonfunctional?

Bernie

There is a non-functioning searchlight signal available on the DLS as a scenery item (although curiously the screenshot on the DLS shows it lying derelict in a ditch, in Surveyor it's actually upright ).

The item name in question is 'derelict searchlight signal' and it's made by nikos1. The KUID is KUID:219472:1207

Just be aware it's 04 content but curiously it works better in 2010 (in earlier versions there's a bug with the textures and it just appears white.).

 

[bl4882]

Thanks for the tip Inkidoh, I'll check it out.

Bernie

Interesting, it is a built in item.

 

[ct_krogen]

some where on your lay out there is a switch lever missing,,,, that is your problem

 

[seniorchief]

If you want some dead signals made give me a shout

I can make you some dummies, if you like for route and others to use also.
Show a picture, or tell me what you want it to look like mash in dent, bent etc. It will be a scenery item only, You can move it where you want. Let me know by email or show some pics here.

Damon(The Rocker):wave:

 

[JCitron]

I can make you some dummies, if you like for route and others to use also.
Show a picture, or tell me what you want it to look like mash in dent, bent etc. It will be a scenery item only, You can move it where you want. Let me know by email or show some pics here.

Damon(The Rocker):wave:

Hey Damon,

This would be great if you could.

How making some hooded signals (covered in plastic bags), or those that are turned inwards or outwards like they're being replaced or are new and not in service yet?

No rush so take your time.

John