Signals causing trouble

[Mick_Berg]

I have been complaining for a while about my AI trains not getting to their destinations. In some instances, (usually a junction with the mainline straight ahead and the branch to the right) they stop at the junction, the signal displays correctly, and the junction is correctly set. The junction and signal change to the other path, and the train goes off down this path, which is completely wrong. At the next junction, the train stops, backs up, and tries again. But it goes the wrong way again. The next few junctions down the route show the little padlock, but everything seems correctly set.

And here's the weird bit, if I remove the signal, the problem goes away. But of course there's no protection, and it's wrong prototypically.
Everything worked fine prior to TS2012.

Anyone else seeing this crazed behaviour?

Thanks,
Mick Berg.

 

[sniper297]

Two items;
1. More trackmarks.
2. Open driver commands, activate Drive to, Drive via trackmark and Drive to trackmark.
Use Drive to or Drive via instead of navigate to or navigate via, since the navigate gives them license to do whatever it takes to get around a red signal and take the path with the least number of signals.

 

[Kennilworth]

Hi Mick

I use a path setting rule and driver command coupled with an autodrive command in my sessions. This prevents the AI from making the decisions and therefore trains go where you want them to go. If you don't want to use a path set rule exclusively then you can just use it for troublesome locations such as you are describing.

Regards

Brian

 

[Mick_Berg]

Two items;
1. More trackmarks.
2. Open driver commands, activate Drive to, Drive via trackmark and Drive to trackmark.
Use Drive to or Drive via instead of navigate to or navigate via, since the navigate gives them license to do whatever it takes to get around a red signal and take the path with the least number of signals.

Duh, I forgot all about the Drive commands. I used to tell everyone else to use them!
Thanks,
Mick.

 

[Mick_Berg]

Hi Mick

I use a path setting rule and driver command coupled with an autodrive command in my sessions. This prevents the AI from making the decisions and therefore trains go where you want them to go. If you don't want to use a path set rule exclusively then you can just use it for troublesome locations such as you are describing.

Regards

Brian

I was thinking about using the path commands but was hoping to avoid it. Let's see if the Drive command helps.
Thanks,
Mick.

 

[Lots_Trains]

Hi Brian

I use a path setting rule and driver command coupled with an autodrive command in my sessions. This prevents the AI from making the decisions and therefore trains go where you want them to go. If you don't want to use a path set rule exclusively then you can just use it for troublesome locations such as you are describing.

I use this system to, it removes all possibilities of a AI doing stupid stuff. In my opinion its the only way to make the AI respond properly.

Cheers

Lots

 

[dzien50]

Hi

I use AI trains a lot ( on one route I have 43 of them ) and very very rarely have any problems with them, on the whole like work like a dream and go where they should. I think this down to three main things, good signaling, good use of track markers and of priorty markers.

The only trouble I sometimes get is with a run round command and the loco just keeps going and not completing the run round but even this is quite rare.

If your having problems I would suggest you look closely at those three vital areas

Cheers
PJ

 

[Mick_Berg]

Well, I replaced the "navigate" commands with "drive" commands. All was well (actually it was with the nav commands) but as soon as I put the signal back, same crazy behaviour. Even with a "Drive to" command, the train takes the other path.

Guess I'll have to make a fake signal that doesn't actually do anything!

Mick Berg.

 

[Dermmy]

Can you post a screenshot Mick, it's something to do with the signal - well OK, that's obvious - but a screenie might gat an 'AHA!' from somebody.

Despite the AI being everyone's favourite whipping boy, I agree totally with PJ: get the trackmarks, direction markers and (most importantly) signalling right and the AI should be able to get to/from any point on the route with just one 'Navigate To...' command. The only place an intermediate 'nav via' should only be needed is where there is a deliberate choice on the route builder's part to leave alternate routes open. I don't care how complex the route is, if it is set up right it will run right....

 

[Mick_Berg]

Can you post a screenshot Mick, it's something to do with the signal - well OK, that's obvious - but a screenie might gat an 'AHA!' from somebody.

Despite the AI being everyone's favourite whipping boy, I agree totally with PJ: get the trackmarks, direction markers and (most importantly) signalling right and the AI should be able to get to/from any point on the route with just one 'Navigate To...' command. The only place an intermediate 'nav via' should only be needed is where there is a deliberate choice on the route builder's part to leave alternate routes open. I don't care how complex the route is, if it is set up right it will run right....

Yes, I will, but maybe before I do that I should ask one thing. I've never been sure of how to use the targets required by Bloodnok's UQ signals. I'm using the "straight" for the left-hand path, as it is the main line, and "right 1" as the right-hand path, as it is the branch. Is this correct? If it was wrong, could it be a cause of the problem?

Thanks,
Mick.

 

[cgwright]

If I remember rightly, you want to use a left for the leftmost route (your main) and the right for the rightmost (branch). I think you use the straight one with three way signals only. I recall I did the exact same thing!

Hope this helps

Chris

 

[Kennilworth]

Hi Mick

With a junction signal the shortest signal is normally used to indicate the branch line so in the situation that you describe you would have the shortest signal on the right hand side. You would have a right hand target on the track going to the right and a straight target on the main line. Where a main line splits and both tracks are main lines you would have a junction signal with both signals the same length and a right hand target on the track going to the right with a left hand target on the line going to the left. In this situation it is important that you don't use a straight target.

If you have the SnC add you can look at how the signals are set up in that. They are always two targets for the signal to read except when it is a triple junction signal when there are three. I have always followed the set up used in the SnC route and have had no problems with semaphore signals.

Regards

Brian

 

[chrisaw]

The signal script isn't aware of main or branch.
The targets should be placed on the left, straight ahead, or right track, regardless of the line priority.

Chris.

 

[chrisaw]

PS something else that can be a problem is if your junction isn't arranged as you think it is.
Look closely and make sure that the junction is made to the side you expect. Some surves can cause the join to be made on the opposite side.

Chris.

 

[Jananton]

If I remember rightly, you want to use a left for the leftmost route (your main) and the right for the rightmost (branch). I think you use the straight one with three way signals only. I recall I did the exact same thing!

Hope this helps

Chris

I think this is the most probable solution. Trainz doesn't know the concept of 'straight' unless there's talk about a three way switch where the third option is inbetween 'left' and 'right'. In all other cases you can only go 'left' or 'right'. 'Straight' is more or less a human concept and not a computer, read AI, digital notion. :hehe:

Greetings from nighttime Amsterdam,

Jan

 

[chrisaw]

A computer might not understand straight, but the signal script does use it.
In the signals that I uploaded, if the signal is described as left branch use left and straight targets.
If right branch, use right and straight targets.
And as kennilworth said, use left and right targets for equal junctions.

Also, as I said above, do check the junction is made correctly.

Chris.

 

[Mick_Berg]

I made a diagrammatic version of the route, and got it to work. Important thing was placement of other signals. I then tried to implement that signalling in the original route. Same old thing. The main difference I see is that in the original route, I get a message "There is a direction marker set against us" (there is definitely NOT) and in the new route I don't get that message.

Can anyone explain what might be generating the offending message?

EDIT: And, another strange thing, I'm using pguy's mcCustom HUD. It shows "next industry" as "Finsbury Park Platform 9" when the Driver command is "Drive to Finsbury Park Platform 10". What on earth is going on?

EDIT of EDIT: Ah, I see that once the path was established, it changed to "Platform 10" so it's looking at the path, and not the driver commands, which is how it should be. So that complaint is withdrawn.

Thanks,
Mick.