Route Feedback Thread. Get critical feedback on shots

[Davie_UCF]

I wouldn't mind feedback/criticism on stuff i'm working on. Whether it just a case of "Whats missing here?" Or "Is this realistic?, How can I make it more so?"

Feel free to post your shots also.

I've got a route i've been working on for a few years now..
Prototypically based in the UK, Loosely Eastern Region, 1950s-60s

This station area has recently been changed to have 3 platforms as theres a branch that goes off to the far right (can't be seen in shot).

I'm just wondering if this is realistic, the one thing that bothers my eyes is how long the double track goes on until it reaches the platform. Would it not just be single and split a bit further down? Do ignore the bush and fence on the line, aswell as the headshunt looking a bit strange .
Also, would it be normal for the 3rd platform (on right) to have a run around or would a train just use the other platform lines to run around?
Any feedback is highly appreciated.




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[olpe]

I am no prototypical train expert, but I live along "Bergensbanen", the railway line between the two biggest cities (or towns) in Norway. This is a single track railroad, with double tracks on some stations. It seems to vary alot how long before the platforms the tracks split, and the example in your photo doesn't seem to be particularely early.

Same with the run around track on the third platform, there doesn't seem to be any general rule for this.

Again, I am no expert, I speak only from what I see on the railways I drive along where I live. Also, for what I know, while we Norwegians just slap our rails on the ground as it suits there and then, the British may have strict rules for everything :hehe: .

 

[itareus]

Hi Davie,

Just a few thoughts:

Points appear to be motorised, this would not be appropriate for the period on a secondary line. They would have been operated by rodding from the signal box and by hand levers in the yard for shunting. By the way where is the signal box?

As regards the length of the double track, this would normally have been determined by the maximum length of train, passenger or freight, which needed to be passed, runround, or recessed at the station. Railway companies would not waste money laying track that was not needed.

If the third platform runround is, as I'm presuming, for use by branch trains then a runround loop may well have been provided to keep the main lines free of branch runround movements. Provision of more track really depended on the density of traffic on a line.

I can't see clearly from the screenshot but the building on the third platform appears to be in an odd position in relation to the platform edge. Maybe you could post a shot of the station from the other end?

The road access to the goods yard also does not seem right to me (although the picture does not show the full context - and this is a subjective judgement). I would have thought that the goods yard would have been placed on the "village" side of the station if possible or access provided by a level crossing to the road that is visible in the screenshot.

Well you asked for it! I hope you find the above useful and constructive (which is how it is meant). Route is looking good.

Cheers

Chris

 

[ray_whiley]

I would agree with Chris.

However, experience suggests that is UK railway practice there is a prototype for almost everything! This is not to mean that all eccentricities should be copied ...

Ray

 

[H222]

i must say, maybe changing the track to 'UK Bullhead 09' built-in to '10, and comes with a rusty version, would suit very much so

Jamie

 

[Davie_UCF]

Itareus, the platforms not been sorted yet, as it was originally just two tracks with a field where the other lines are on the right. So Its just rough to see if it works, then i'll sort out that building .

It also appeared right to have the goods shed on the other side because the other platform is there also, don't know if this is really an issue or just me.

It should be okay because theres a bridge just out of shot before the points at the bottom and i'm planning to expand the village a bit onto the other side so it doesn't seem so odd.

I'm probably going to lose the long double track bit and have it split a bit further up as it will probably just bother me and if it bothers me I might aswell change it.

The branch loop, is what I was on about in another thread where a train would be coming from the north (of the screenshot) into that 3rd platform area and then reverse back but leaving onto the branch. The runaround is there so this train can runaround before heading up the branch. I did tinker with the idea of just making the branch have more of a wye so can be reached from either direction but didn't want to overdo it as its not a major branch, just a coal mine and a halt.


Also to JJDella, the reason im using that track is because i'm using Andi06's points which don't come in many textures. I'm not sure if its that much of an issue.

I'll show some more shots later
thanks to all!

 

[Davie_UCF]

Better views. Yeah i am lacking a signal box... i'll find it a spot soon



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And with the double track part changed.


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Really appreciate your feedback. I'm aiming to get this route as realistic as possible, almost as if it could have been real.. Aswell as the fact i'm filling it with timetabled AI consists which should opperate in a realistic manner.. with the future hope of turning each of those into a proper session/scenario with scoring system .

Oh and I guess it gives me a chance to show it off a bit.

 

[itareus]

David,

Have you tried the freeware UltraTreez by McGuirel (on the DLS) and also some of the Jankvis trees with "~" in the name, made for 09/10. Can be a bit heavy on framerates but very useful for trees close to the trackside.

Some useful information on semaphore signalling is available on this site:

http://www.signalbox.org/signals.shtml

You might find the section on junction signals interesting. Talking of signalling - "Rbach" has some assets on the DLS for cabling etc. Polish names so check for assets called "Pednia". I have not tried these myself but they may be worth a look.

Edit: Just found these point rodding assets, some are built in and some on theDLS.

Point Connector Rod 4,<kuid:61119:37103>
Point Connector Rod 2,<kuid:61119:37100>
Point Connector Rod 1,<kuid:61119:37101>
Point Connecting Rod 5 Long,<kuid:142454:10113>
Point Connecting Rod 5,<kuid:142454:10105>
Point Connecting Rod 4 Long,<kuid:142454:10112>
Point Connecting Rod 4,<kuid:142454:10104>
Point Connecting Rod 3 Long,<kuid:142454:10111>
Point Connecting Rod 3,<kuid:142454:10103>
Point Connecting Rod 2 Long,<kuid:142454:10110>
Point Connecting Rod 2,<kuid:142454:10102>
Point Connecting Rod 1 Long,<kuid:142454:10109>
Point Connecting Rod 1,<kuid:142454:10101>
Point Connecting Rod Corners,<kuid:68236:23011>

Not so sure about the location of the cattle dock, at least that is what I think it is, in screenshot 2. This appears to me to be on what would be a running line. But as Ray, quite correctly, points out there will be a prototype for this arrangement somewhere.

Looking forward to the upgrading of the road to the goods shed, my Scammel Scarab keeps getting stuck on the old dirt track !

Cheers

Chris

 

[Davie_UCF]

I've been using some Ultra trees and Speed Treez on this route, but this area was done a long time ago before even 2009, so i'll probably upgrade the trees around there.

Yeah the cattle dock appears dodgy but at present trains just go around it.. it doesn't block any routes.

The comment earlier about the point motors is interesting.. If using connecting rods what would be used instead of a yard lever or point motor? I never really realised there wouldn't really be point motors.

The area is looking better..


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Looks a lot better with Anti Alias on of course , aswell as not having the wires on the points showing, but i'm just testing it in a window while multi tasking and wanted to show a shot.
People around there enjoy growing their vegetables..

 

[itareus]

The comment earlier about the point motors is interesting.. If using connecting rods what would be used instead of a yard lever or point motor? I never really realised there wouldn't really be point motors.

The rodded points were operated by purely mechanical means through the rodding, but then we get into facing point locks etc..... It's bit of a complex subject so I would suggest a bit of "Googling" for "Railway point rodding" and similar. You will find quite a lot of the 'hits' you get will be for model railway point rodding, but if a modeller is going to the trouble of making the stuff the chances are he has researched the prototype well !

Here are a couple of sites to get you started:

Close up of rodding - http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1563578

From a model railway based site - http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/3-sigs/sigbox.htm

Also check out http://www.signalbox.org/index.php (as mentioned in my earlier post).

There was a limit, of 350 yards, on the distance away from a signal box that a point could be rod operated. This equates to a box being able to control points by rodding for about half of one Trainz baseboard in each direction. This should be fine for your station. Bigger stations would have one or more boxes at each end. (Check out the track layout section on http://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php).

Hand operated points in the yard are would still have a lever.

Chris

 

[mezzoprezzo]

Hi Davie_UCF.

You’re very brave to put this one up. It’s a great thread though! :Y:
There’s a lot of end product stuff posted in the Forums, but not too much on how to do it. Your thread should help a lot of people.

Here are one or two ideas that have worked for me.

Cheers
Casper




Terrain and foliage:

Avoid too much flat ground (as you have). Perfectly flat terrain is very rare in most countries.

Place shadows under trees with a burst of darker texture. Some of the dark forests work well for this (not ‘forest floor’, which I don’t think is as good for European deciduous).

Squirt a contrasting shade of colour into the corners of fields.

Increase good weather fog to grey out the distance a bit – it helps with perspective. In real life, close items are always clearer than distant ones. Even with a mega draw distance, I think you still need some. It helps to separate foreground, middle distance and background and create a bit of atmosphere.

In these two shots, all of the assets and terrain are identically placed. Only the 'shadow' texturing and good weather fog setting has been altered. (Edit: This originally said "draw distance" - apologies!)

Before:

After:

Buildings & fences:

Avoid leaving hard edges at ground level in rural landscapes, and never be afraid of covering up parts of walls or buildings (as you have done in most of your houses in the screenshot in your post #9. They look really good. The lower two still look a bit bare. I realise this is a work in progress, but it does serve to illustrate the difference compared with your houses in the upper part of your picture). Grass etc. around the base improves the look. So does threading greenery through fences and walls – merge them rather than place bushes and splines separately. Think 'real life' and put a bit of ground cover where the farmer/landowner cannot access easily for cutting (or can't be bothered!).

Your vegetable patches works well. They might be further improved with a darker soil underneath the crops, rather than the same green you have in the rest of the two gardens.

If the view is likely to be seen close to, e.g. when using a trackside camera, some added detail can work well. Warning: Don’t fill your route with it, or it will run slowly! Here and there, though, is usually acceptable.

Here I’ve used some wet looking texture, grass and a few of Deane’s (Dinorius_Redundicus) derelicts around the barns. I think it’s an improvement on just using a single texture on which to sit buildings.

Before:

After:

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[ray_whiley]

Excellent advice Casper - and much food for thought even for those who have some experience in creating routes. I shall certainly follow some of your suggestions.

Ray

 

[Davie_UCF]

Great advice, I try to follow a lot of what you say, mainly at close distances to the track .

The fog idea is very useful, I used to have it on a lot but didn't realise how much it helps, the comparison shots show this a lot!
I used the crops in the gardens mainly because the gardens look odd bare and too big without being cut up into a small area for growing produce I think its a good tip for other people..

With regards to the point rodding.. this is an idea I will try but It might be too fiddley and attempting perfection too much.. I don't know if it would ruin the immersion of the route if not included and might be quite hard in large station areas... I recall trying it later on in the route, i'll get a shot of that.. but ill deff giving it a go at the station in the current screenshots

 

[itareus]

.....With regards to the point rodding.....It might be too fiddley and attempting perfection too much....

I think you're right there, and most people won't notice it's missing ! Personally I would just replace the point motors with invisible levers.

*

Casper,

A very informative post, thank you.

*

Cheers

Chris

 

[H222]

Can I post a shot of my route here for feedback??

Jamie

 

[olpe]

Unless I seriously misunderstood, it seems like that was the meaning of the thread, so go ahead.

This looks like an incredibly useful thread that hopefully will grow large, and definitely a thread I will follow closely .

 

[Davie_UCF]

Can I post a shot of my route here for feedback??

Jamie

Yup. I wanted someone to put mine but I hoped other people would use it also. Go for it!

 

[Davie_UCF]

Had some major issues where I nearly lost my entire route and session data, god that was scary!

Work continues anyhow.



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Have since moved signalboxes, now only one on the ground just before the junction semaphores.

Looks pretty messy to me, not sure why.

 

[itareus]

Had some major issues where I nearly lost my entire route and session data, god that was scary!.....

Backup the route and session as a CDP to a memory stick.(£5 ish from Tesco's and similar). Less damaging than a heart attack !!

Looking good.

Chris

 

[Davie_UCF]

Backup the route and session as a CDP to a memory stick.(£5 ish from Tesco's and similar). Less damaging than a heart attack !!

Looking good.

Chris

Indeed. I wish it could be backed up automaticly somehow. Spose closest i'll get is backing up the whole Trainz folder to my external HD every eve!


As this route was started a long time ago before TS10, it is full of trees that look awful (as i'm using Native Mode). The speed treez do work okay if used well but there isn't enough variants to replace all the cruddy half invisible trees that don't really like Native Mode.
Any advice on new trees that will do the job would be great, if anyone knows of any...