Releasing a Route...?

[nicky9499]

Hi guys,

I'm very near completion of a part of a route that I wish to share with everybody, all that's left is registering a domain, designing the website and packing the files for distribution.
Yea, that last part has been abit of a mess during beta-testing. Here is what I've done in CMP: right click Route > List Dependencies > View in Main List > Save to CDP, and repeat same steps for the session.
Some beta-testers reported a couple of missing dependencies, some listed dozens upon dozens, and some run fine right out of the box. All of which is very confusing to be honest, this being my first time releasing something.

Can the more experienced route builders who've completed and released big routes kindly share what you did in the distribution process? I'd have preferred to upload it to the DLS, but during construction many non-DLS assets were used (it was not originally intended for public) so that is out of the question. My goal is to make the installation process for users as seamless and straightforward as possible, through the all-inclusive er..inclusion of every asset used in both Route and Session. These days large file size is not a big concern as most people have high-speed connections and I have access to a server with FTP upload capability.

Manually hunting down every reported missing kuid and reuploading them for every release would be prohibitively time-consuming and unfeasible, so a workaround is needed.

Your advice is much appreciated.

Cheerio,
Nicholas

 

[BLACKWATCH]

I'd have preferred to upload it to the DLS, but during construction many non-DLS assets were used

Then I would recommend releasing it on your own website, not on the dls. Payware or hunting around for foreign assets is a BIG no no.
I for one would look at a list of unknown dependencies & just say "sod it" can't be arsed.

 

[JIb228]

Well, if not needed or if they can be substituted, get rid of the 3rdy party stuff.

When giving out my current WIP route for people to test, I first delete all the assets for it, then re-download it. (Even if its not the on the DLS, you can drop a route into the download helper and it will pull all the DLS assets off of there.) Then, after making sure nothing important like ground textures or rolling stock is missing, I go into surveyor and delete all missing assets. Ive found that when uploading to the DLS, even if I only have a few things there, the head aces of having a missing dependency. One of the MRL sessions had a missing locomotive, and I got about 100 messages asking where I could find it, or that the session was bad because of it.

This is just my suggestion though. If your talking about your Cole County route, I highly encourage you do this. Id love to use it, and maybe make an MP session for it. But thats just cause I like MP...

 

[cascaderailroad]

You can share it with a few beta testers via dropping the CDP right into the Skype dialg box, or host it on Mediafire, or the likes.

 

[JIb228]

You can share it with a few beta testers via dropping the CDP right into the Skype dialg box, or host it on Mediafire, or the likes.

Media Fire works good, its how I pass out my route, and other files needed for my iPortal gang. You can set it so only people with a link can get to the download. Skype works, but can be slow if sending large files. And if one of the people logs out, then the file transfer gets interrupted and canceled. Took about 8 hours to send a 2 gig file via Skype. And both of us where on high speed connections. Took 15 min to upload to Media fire, send the link, then download at the other end.

 

[nicky9499]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the advice. Transmitting the file is no problem, as I've access to a server that accepts FTP upload and unlimited storage and bandwidth, so it's really easy to share. One beta-tester on fiber got the whole 2GB in less than 10 minutes. What I am most concerned about are missing dependencies. I borrowed my sister's laptop (the only other Windows machine powerful enough to run the route) and dropped the CDPs onto a fresh install of TS12. It seems the problem is not missing dependencies per se, but rather missing dependencies of the dependencies. I don't know how to round these up though, because the asset count is in the thousands.

If it makes life easier for everybody, I also wouldn't mind finding DLS equivalent assets and swapping out 3rd party ones. However because over the years A LOT of non-DLS stuff has accumulated I've absolutely no idea which ones are from the DLS and which ones are not.

Nicholas

 

[JIb228]

That's where my method would come in handy. Deleting all the dependencies for the route but not the route it's self will get rid of every thing.Then re-downloading it will get all the DLS only content. Then going in and hitting "Remove Missing Dependencies" will get rid of the reference to the asset in the route. Though it the asset is some thing like signal or building, you might have to manually replace them. I suggest doing this on a clean instal of Trainz, as not to mess up other routes you might have.

 

[oknotsen]

I've absolutely no idea which ones are from the DLS and which ones are not.

Set this filter: "locally modified = true". The assets now listed are either modified by you or downloaded from 3rd party.
Assets you have fixed might be worth replacing by working (DLS?) equivalents if available, so others do not have to re-fix them when getting those.
Assets from 3rd party website which you cant trace back to its origin probably also would need to be replaced as you are usually not allowed to re-distribute those 3rd party items, no matter how good your intentions.

I'll avoid the rest of the discussion for now.

 

[Dermmy]

There is only one way to absolutely find all 3rd party assets in a route and that is to import the route into a virgin install of Trainz, download the DLS dependencies and see what's left. Locating the remaining asset in your 'working' install is easy and the config will normally give a hint where you found the asset, and importing those to the clean install will in turn lead to the sub-dependencies, and occasionally to the sub-sub-dependencies. If you can't find it again, assume nobody else can either. If your clean install is not eventually free from missing dependencies no-one else's will be either. All of my routes go through this process in Ts10 and TS12, I do 10 and one of my testers does 12, which is kinda cheating because TS10 is much better at DLS dependencies than 12 - TS12 will always return false negatives that need chased down manually from the DLS.

As you import dependencies keep a list of kuids and source links, then either include a readme text doc with the route (which no-one will ever look at!) or publish the list on a web site or in the forum...

 

[3801]

..... over the years A LOT of non-DLS stuff has accumulated I've absolutely no idea which ones are from the DLS and which ones are not.

Nicholas

That's the root of the problem, Nicholas.
As you have unlimited space on which to store the route files, the problem would not exist if all those files could be identified and stored along with the route, making everything - except DLS assets - available from one location.

After only a few weeks back with Trainz I am already finding it a frustrating exercise to find dependencies of dependencies!

Bruce

 

[dragonharh]

A list of every kuid and were to find them is help full.

 

[SuperFudd]

All this is why all my layouts use built in stuff ONLY.

 

[nicky9499]

All this is why all my layouts use built in stuff ONLY.

That works, but then you would've no idea what you're missing out on. Take Samplaire's content for example.

Thanks Andy, that does sound like what would be required. It will be a colossal effort identifying all non-DLS stuff and finding suitable replacements, and perhaps miss the release date, but it doesn't seem like I got a choice. Also explains why many choose to keep their routes to themselves. At this point I am also considering making the route TS10 compatible (in native mode), since what I need to do is almost like completely rebuilding it. Would this be advisable?

Edit:
Ok I'll rephrase the question; will a "flawless" TS10 route install "flawlessly" into TS12 as well, and/or vice versa? Since I'm going to alot of trouble to replace non-DLS assets, I might as well go the whole nine yards and make it a multiplayer-capable route with the modified assets put on the DLS (again, with permission).

Nicholas

 

[matruck]

All this is why all my layouts use built in stuff ONLY.

Pretty much explains a lot too :hehe:
Mick.

 

[Dermmy]

will a "flawless" TS10 route install "flawlessly" into TS12 as well, and/or vice versa? Nicholas

No, and No!

TS 10 contains a lot of legacy built-in content which is not included in TS12. All that content IS on the DLS, accessible only to TS12 users (because nobody else needs it!) but unless it is an undocumented SP1 fix, TS12's CM is notoriously bad at finding it. Expect 'Missing Content' reports, and expect the 'missing' object to be a DLS object that TS12 isn't finding.

On the Vice-Versa, TS12 routes won't install in TS10 without a backwards hack.....

 

[nicky9499]

No, and No!

Ah, not like the good ole days of 04/06 compatibility huh. Guess I'll stick with TS12 then.
Ok, I've installed the route into a new Trainz install and deleted all the missing dependencies. When rebuilding with DLS-assets, how do I choose (from the object list) which ones were downloaded from the DLS?

Cheerio,
Nicholas

 

[Dermmy]

I can never remember which colour is which, but if you have showkuids turned on (developer settings menu in TS12, trainzoptions entry in earlier version) the kuid number has one colour for built-in, another for DLS assets and a third colour for 3rd party which makes it easy!

 

[nicky9499]

The only 3 colors I've ever seen (it's -showkuids) of the kuid numbers are white, yellow and red. Never knew what the first two meant but doesn't red indicate a faulty or erroneous asset? Perhaps someone else can chime in on this.

 

[Dermmy]

Different red! Red up in the menu flyouts means faulty, not to be confused with red down in -showkuids which is part of the BuiltIn/DLS/3Party coding. Pretty sure red is 3Party, but not at my Trainz compuer to check....

 

[dragonharh]

I wont to know more about your route and less about the problems and so on soo tell us more about your project ?