pc just shuts down

[russellwhite2007]

HI all my mates pc keeps shutting down. the only way it won't is if she has the case open and a fan blowing into it to keep it cool.

All the fans inside the case are running as they should they are all clean and I even cleaned the grease off the cpu and heatsink and put new on.

I don't know much about the specs as I didn't really look into it to much, I have however been looking online and some sites say it could be anything from the psu to the mb it's self.

the system is 4yrs old but whats the most likely thing to be causing the problem?

I did notice some error messages (couldn't load some thing I think) when she booted it up but she kissed them good bye to quick for me to see what they were.

I'm going to try changing the psu tomorrow to see that helps, but I saw the power cable there was like a thin tube coming off of it going to some thing which I've never seen on a power cable to a pc before.

Shes only runing 512mb of ram on xp and it's really slow I've said she should see about getting more ram to help but she does not see the ram as a problem.

I'm hoping you people who really know pc's could give me some idea.

Cheers Rusty

 

[Steveo241]

Does it just shut down randomly? Or are you using a certain program?

"the system is 4yrs old but whats the most likely thing to be causing the problem?"

"Shes only runing 512mb of ram on xp and it's really slow I've said she should see about getting more ram to help but she does not see the ram as a problem."

Those are both factors...most computers are running on Vista now, and depending on what programs you have up or downloaded on your computer, that can slow it down a lot.

 

[Smileyman]

Just bought new PSU's for 2 of my computers a couple of weeks ago because I'd added Graphics cards that demanded more than the PSU could give when everything else in the computer was taken into account.

Did she buy a new Graphics card in the last few months?
You'll find that the latest Grpaphics cards will need at least 400-450w, which will be stated on the box, and everything else in the PC that's connected to the PSU will need their share too.
You can run them on less, but you'll be right on the borderline, and you'll get random reboots, blue screen errors, and even the occasional fuse blowing in the mains plug.

I'd get her to check out the requirements of the Graphics card and the wattage of her PSU, and if it is borderline, then change it sooner rather than later, before if damages the card or the motherboard.

Remember, a PSU will only use the power it needs, so don't think you're wasting electricity if you buy a 500-550w PSU, and it's better to be safe than sorry.

HTH,
Smiley.

 

[meatloaf747]

Go into CMOS and see what her "CPU shut down temperature settings" are set at.
The temperature shut down setting maybe to low and when your CPU is reaching that temperature setting, its automatically shutting down/turning off her PC. (as it is supposed to, theoretically so you don't fry the CPU)...
Default CMOS settings on SOME of the older motherboard, partially those running the older, hotter AMD Athlon CPU's were set to low ... You may need to set the settings a little higher...
Try and see what temperature the CPU is running at when idle & under load... If it's over 70-75 you may need to look at a bigger/better third party COPPER BASED heat sink with fan, rather than the standard one that came with the CPU.
Cheers, Mac...

 

[russellwhite2007]

thank-you all for your help on this I can say she's not got a video card only built in. I'll check the cpu temp in bios to see what that's like. I've asked her to run some temp test see what that brings up.

mine is 34-42c the hotest I've ever seen it is 49c and I had a red warning with that.

I did advise about a new heatsink and fan.

I'll let you know how I get on once I've been there today.


Cheers Rusty

 

[russellwhite2007]

Hi again ok after running some temp tests just on idle I found the cpu temp to be at 69c with red warning. I took another look inside the case and today found the fan was not spinning so I changed it out for a spare I had.

still running very high with the fan spinning, so I backed out and went back in then it settled down and ran at 29-46c even loading programs great I thought that's solved the problem.

But then I looked down a bit more and saw the motherboard temp at 54c which it should not be getting that hot.

But I think I found the problem the cpu is an Intel but it has a amd heat sink and fan on it. Now to me this is wrong. the motherboard is a foxconn a make I've never heard of untill today and looking up on things I can understand why.

Would it pay to see if I can find an Intel heat sink and fan that will fit on this motherboard to help with that?

I've found the psu to only have a power output of 300w which is quite low I think that I should upgrade it to a 450w to see her though incase she buys a new motherboard? (Which I'll be recomending she does).

I've also added 1gb of ram so that should help her a bit more.

any thing I should really be looking at and doing now?

Cheers Rusty

 

[ColPrice2002]

Hi,

Would it pay to see if I can find an Intel heat sink and fan that will fit on this motherboard to help with that?

Personally I would buy a heat-sink from an "add-on" company - for example, I've installed an Akasa (heat-pipes to a large fan cooled radiator.
This can fit a number of different processor types (keeps my CPU @ 30-35C) - and is much quieter.

think that I should upgrade it to a 450w

Go for a 600w one - if you can afford it. the next upgrade will probably be to the graphics card - you'd be embarassed to have to change the PSU twice (?).

Last suggestion - I bought an Akasa Zen case (no I don't get a discount )

That has 2 x 12 cm fans and that dropped the internal temperature (m/board & graphics card) by some 10C - again the larger fans are quieter. (and it's not that expensive!)

HTH,

Colin

 

[Smileyman]

Go for a 600w one - if you can afford it. the next upgrade will probably be to the graphics card - you'd be embarassed to have to change the PSU twice (?).

I agree with Colin.
Go for anything 500 or over if you can afford it, and as I said in the last post, it will only use what it needs.

Where the Heatsink and fan are concerned, I'd recommend checking out the ratings of the fans/heatsinks and seeing if they state what processor speeds they cover.

Finally, your ambient temperature in your box (and therefore your motherboard temp) can be helped by using cable ties to gather all your cables together and securing them out of the way so that there is a clean path for the air to flow through your system.
Also, if you do buy a decent PSU, it will give off less heat too, which will also help.
You'll be surprised just how much of a difference those last 2 make.

Good luck,
Smiley.

 

[meatloaf747]

Gidday Rusty,
Others here have given you some good advice. If it possible to improve the airflow thru the case, then that will certainly help reduce temperatures.
Most modern PSU nowdays have two fans built in. One in the bottom to suck air into the PSU (from inside the case) and the other to extract the hot air out of the back of the PSU/case.
While replacing the PSU & improving ventataion will help, I don't think these will solve her problems on their own.
I would suggest that you leave the side of the case off (assuming she has a Tower case, rather than a desktop case) and do the idle & under load temperature tests again. (This way the internal case temperature is out of the equation).
If it's still running too hot, I would replace the heat sink with a better third party one. (make sure you use some thermal paste between the new heat sink & CPU).
Intel processor's generally speaking don't have overheating problems/issues unless they are overclocked or in a poorly ventalated case.
If you are going to replace the heat sink, take the existing one to the shop and show them. They will know whether its a Socket478 or LGA775 CPU heat sink you need.
Personally, I would try that first. (just replacing the heat sink & leaving the side of the case off for a few days).
If that works, then try it with the side of the case back on. If it starts to overheat again, then I would look at better case ventalation. Eg; replacing the one or two 8mm fans with two 12mm fans.. One drawing air in the front and one extracting the hot air out the back of the case...
If you still have a problem, then I would start looking at some of the other options.
Because she dosen't have a power hungry video card that would normally be drawing off a lot of power & giving off a lot of heat, I would question whether or not it's worth replacing the existing 300 watt PSU. (that PSU will be able to cope will her present setup assuming she has only one HHD, one CD/DVD Rom & two case fans).
If she's going to be adding a video card, more fan's, HDD's, etc, then I would agree with Smiley & Colin and upgrade her PSU...
If her present case is a smaller micro case, then she may wish to look at a larger full Tower case with a 500 - 600 watt PSU already installed.
Anding more RAM will help performance and will only have a minimal impact on temperature/s. Hope this helps.
Cheers, Mac...

 

[Red_Rattler]

Replace one of the memory sticks and see what happens, if you still get the problem - that's if relates to memory.

 

[tonyvdb]

When was the last time you took a can of air to blow all the dust out from everywhere? Dust may not seem like much of an issue but I bet if you blew all the dust out that would help dramatically.

 

[Captain_Collins]

When was the last time you took a can of air to blow all the dust out from everywhere? Dust may not seem like much of an issue but I bet if you blew all the dust out that would help dramatically.

If you do this then make sure you stop any fans from spinning, otherwise they may be damaged if they spin too fast.

 

[russellwhite2007]

thanks again for all your help the system is dust free and I did give it all a check when I changed the cases over it's a micro atx case which I've swaped for enough micro atx.

I had it on for well over 12hrs idling and unload with the side on and the cpu temp did not go over 60c stayed more at around 30c which is better.

The motherboard is still hot, I know the cpu is a 478 socket so I looked around ebay and found this . I also thought maybe this as a psu it's the psu I'm using in my tower and I've had no problems with it.

My only worry with that psu is it's an atx not a micro atx don't know if that will fit into the micro atx case.

I was thinking of getting her a new m/b to replace what she has now this is what she has.

could anybody recomend a better moterboard that I can just put her ram and cpu in without her having to buy even more (due to being a single mum and not much money).

I have changed the ram she a 512 and 256 I've swapped the 256 for a 1gb

Once again thanks for all your help.

 

[ColPrice2002]

Hi,

Just one last thought (basedon my experience of changing Motherboards....

Windows XP uses the motherboard & Hard disk info when the product is activated.
By changing the HDD and/or the Motherboard, I had to re-activate the Windows XP.
Because I had the Retail version (i,e, not the OEM pre-loaded one) I was able to obtain a new activation code (phone call to MSoft).
If the PC came wth the OEM version, the licence is tied to that motherboard & disc combination. You can probably argue with MS regarding a disk replacement, but I don't think they will let you get away with the new motherboard...
I suspect that Vista is similar - though I think that Windows 2000 is ok.

All the best,

Colin

 

[russellwhite2007]

Hi,

Just one last thought (basedon my experience of changing Motherboards....

Windows XP uses the motherboard & Hard disk info when the product is activated.
By changing the HDD and/or the Motherboard, I had to re-activate the Windows XP.
Because I had the Retail version (i,e, not the OEM pre-loaded one) I was able to obtain a new activation code (phone call to MSoft).
If the PC came wth the OEM version, the licence is tied to that motherboard & disc combination. You can probably argue with MS regarding a disk replacement, but I don't think they will let you get away with the new motherboard...
I suspect that Vista is similar - though I think that Windows 2000 is ok.

All the best,

Colin

it's not an oem version of windows.

when I had a dell and I had to swap the motherboard and hard drive they still let it go though with no problems, They were very nice to speak to as well.

 

[jdenm8]

I have had experience with an Acer computer running the OEM version ow Windows XP SP2. My aunt had to replace her motherboard with a new one and Microsoft supplied the activation code.

I don't know if it makes any difference. The PC did not come with the OS pre-activated.

And another question, should a P4 run at 80c?

 

[Captain_Collins]

...cut...

And another question, should a P4 run at 80c?

Only if you are placing it under very heavy load for a long period of time. If it keeps happening then I would look into getting a better heatsink and fan. If you go down this route, then make sure you buy good quality thermal paste and don't apply too much.

 

[russellwhite2007]

Just to say that the tower has been runing nice and cool with just a case change.

Thanks to all for all your help.

 

[jdenm8]

Only if you are placing it under very heavy load for a long period of time. If it keeps happening then I would look into getting a better heatsink and fan. If you go down this route, then make sure you buy good quality thermal paste and don't apply too much.

It was only running BIOS at the time but I did use it as a gaming computer until it started acting up. It would run games like Trainz, The Sims 2 and Need for Speed: Carbon for prolonged periods. I will have to open it up and look at how to get better air flow.

My little brother has an identical computer and it only works with the side cover off.

I don't play some of the games anymore so, I don't know. I was sick and tired of waiting three quarters of an hour for The Sims 2 to get its act together and end itself. Ran great everywhere except when it came to quit the game.

Oh, almost forgot. The processor is running the standard fan and heatsink. I don't remember my father putting thermal paste back on the processor when he had a look at it and took the heatsink and fan off.

 

[Captain_Collins]

...cut...

1. My little brother has an identical computer and it only works with the side cover off.

...cut...

2. Oh, almost forgot. The processor is running the standard fan and heatsink. I don't remember my father putting thermal paste back on the processor when he had a look at it and took the heatsink and fan off.

I have highlighted the two points which lead me to believe that you need to buy a new case and some thermal paste.

1. I assume this is a purchased PC? If so, then this is a classic example of a case designed for an environment where users either would not or could not check temperatures inside the machine, thus the company who made it can heat it up, shortening the life and forcing you to buy a new one sooner. I would definitely recommend buying a new case.

It should not be too hard to swap the components over, just be gentle with them and take proper static precautions. you can buy an inexpensive wrist strap that will earth you through an electrical socket, or you can (not as effective) touch the computer case while the computer is plugged into an electrical socket. This is not as effective as an earthing strap as you are not constantly grounded, but it works.

2. You really should get some thermal paste back on there, and do not use the computer until then, as the processor may be damaged by excessive heat (over 70 degrees C or so), and processors are not cheap.

Thermal paste can be purchased from shops like Maplin (UK) and may come in a syringe with the correct amount in. All you do is clean off any old paste, syringe the recommended amount of paste into the centre of the processor, and replace the heatsink/fan. Then do not remove said heatsink/fan unless you have more paste to replace the old with, as once the paste is disturbed it looses a lot of effectiveness.