OUTRAGE AT TS12 SP1 49922-58414

[chrispearce]

Dear Members,
I am a very angry man. I have just updated my build of TS12 from 49922-58414. My route was very scenic and had a mainline in excess of 100 miles. The mainline used the default Jarred Oak track. However, when I loaded the game all the ground texture had vanished to be replaced with the original grey and yellow grid, the track had been deleted and replaced with a double dotted line as had all the tree splines. Buildings have vanished - a whole town! A year's work gone to waste!!!!!!! Also it seems every driver command is a bug. WHAT IS THIS ABOUT????? SP1 has RUINED my route.
Can anyone help me understand this?
Chris (U.K.)

 

[oknotsen]

Relax.

I assume you were smart and made a back-up before you patched. Just do a second install (yes, you are allowed to do that) and install your route there and all is fine.

Patch 58414 is not the latest patch. After that there were 4 hotfixes. Installing those might also simply fix your problem. For downloads, go here:
http://www.auran.com/servicepacks/
Build 61388 is the latest build.

 

[Lendorf]

The point is, no one should have to make a back up of an existing route one is working on when just upgrading a particular version IF the upgrade was done correctly in the first place by the powers that be. At the very, VERY least, this upgrade (and any other upgrade as well) should have been (a MUST) thoroughly tested either in house or by beta testers. Why wasn't this done?

No excuses and I mean NO excuses from N3V Games will alter that fact that usually if they upgrade a version, this breaks some more things than it fixes. Hence all these "hot fixes", this is NOT upgrading, this is just a monumental stuff up all around. How N3V Games gets away with it is beyond me but it can be seen by many of the old guards (and not so old ones) leaving the scene or hanging on to the older stable versions of Trainz (TRS04, TRS06, TS09, TS10).

You diehard one eyed fans of N3V Games probably do not believe me but surely, when reading this forum after any upgrade proves me right by the amount of complaints being posted. But alas, I hazard an educated guess, going by past experiences with upgrades and new versions of Trainz having been released, why should TANE be any different to previous versions?

As a side note, if the OP still has got any previous back ups of his/her route (mine gets backed up every day I start up Trainz and/or work on it), then it is easy to restore this again with minimal loss (if using the latest back up, probably just a day's work) to any workings on that route. I upgraded TS12 OK to V61388 but then similar faults happened to my Mega route I had been building on since TRS04 and had upgraded each time to later versions of Trainz.

My opinion.

Lennard

 

[oknotsen]

The point is, no one should have to make a back up

You sound a bit naive if you ask me.

You should always make a backup, no matter what you think you can expect from whatever software supplier.
Why?
Because even if the software supplier made the best flawless patch ever made, the patch is not the only thing happening in the world. Their might be a power outage, your HD might have a defect, your computer might have a virus or malware, your little brother / sister / wife / grandpa / etc. might walk in and start fooling around on your PC or pull the plug, your CPU just dies, lightning strike, rain, you spoil your cola over your computer, etc...

Thinking you should not need a backup is just naive.

My opinion.

 

[BuilderBob]

The point is, no one should have to make a back up of an existing route one is working on when just upgrading a particular version IF the upgrade was done correctly in the first place

You don't do a backup because of the possibility of problems with the upgrade. You do a backup because of the risk of something going wrong with your machine during the upgrade - a power failure, the cat walking across the keyboard, the hard disk filling up unexpectedly, or your anti-virus software objecting to something. Having that backup in the event of something going wrong with the actual upgrade is just a bonus.

 

[Azervich]

Logic Failure, HDD corruption, Bad Sectors, all those can happen anytime too and loose your work.

Cheers.

 

[pware]

Azervich, BuilderBob and Oknotsen covered almost everything I was going to add.

Just how many different systems should N3V have to test their patches on before they are "thoroughly tested"? How many systems do Adobe, Microsoft, etc (with all their programming and technical resources, not to mention funds) test their patches on? Yet they still generate numerous complaints.

For the record I cannot recall any Trainz patch or hotfix that has caused me any major problems.

 

[2995Valliant]

Beyond the obvious about backing up and the fact that any outrage about SP1 is now very old news for most of us, the errors you have described sound very much to me as if the route is now missing (or thinks it is missing) a lot of dependencies.

Did you run an extended database repair after patching? If not, try it and let is know how the route looks after that.

hth,

Anthony

 

[llebrez]

Here is what I would do: In CM, do an export of your route as a cdp (sessions too). Store that CDP file-s away in a flash and unplug the flash from the computer. Now install another copy of the basic Trainz without any SP's. Run it as it comes from the game and make sure it works with basic installed routes. OK? Now plug the flash back and in CM, import your CDP routes from the flash. Run the program and see if the routes are there and as you made them before the "upgrades". At this point you may have many missing assets, and you may have to do the same but copying the "local" folder. As per your white lines where your had your beautiful track.. I had them and every attempt I have made to "repair" has failed; Because of this I don't need members to tell me how to do it, I need someone to do it for me (any takers please?). Note that I have been able to "repair" many assets using PEVsoft and manipulating the Config entries, but the track.. no luck. Are computers an exact science?, then why are we talking about "luck" here?

 

[Cayden]

TS12SP1HF4 (that is TS12 version 61388) is not an upgrade (bug fix) of TS12 version 49922. It is a new release of Trainz with many new changes. For example, if one has an asset to which LOD has not been applied, it will not load in version 61388 but will in version 49922. This is not a bug fix but a new "feature". Many assets which work perfectly well in version 49922 will not work with version 61388, for example, much of CJV's assets and surprisingly (or for some maybe not) many N3V assets, notably textures.

Hopefully you have a backup copy of your route. I would recommend you remove version 61388 and reinstall version 49922. Only time will tell but TS12 version 49922 may be the pinnacle of Trainz development, or at least plateau like TS 2004 and TS 2006, which seem to still preferred version for many users.

Cayden

 

[Lendorf]

What is it with you one eyed fans of N3V games? I clearly stated above I do back ups with my routes every time I start Trainz. Where does the "being naive" come in? Next time READ ALL of what I posted, then all the above pointing out would have been made redundant.

My post above referred to UPGRADING from one version to another, this should be happening with ease as with most other game's upgrades or patches are done. Skyrim, Dragon Age, Diablo 2 etc. have NEVER had issues when upgrading the original install, so WHY is this happening with TS12?

I rest my case .

Lennard

 

[Lendorf]

Re reading the OP's post, he NEVER complained of having issues with version 61388, his TS12 is only upgraded to version 51484. Hence read ALL that is posted here instead of jumping in with both boots first .

Beyond the obvious about backing up and the fact that any outrage about SP1 is now very old news for most of us...

The OP is a new member, clearly seen by his only 6 posts so far. How would he/she know about the "old news" of upgrading? Remember, what you as an "experienced" Trainzer might know, this does not mean, every one else knows that too. That is why the OP is asking for help here.

Simple

Lennard

 

[pware]

.. and as I have said, I have never had any problems running patches, hot fixes or upgrading from one version to the next. You assume that your experience is common, this is not the case otherwise these forums would be flooded with complaints. A search of the forums reveals that most (if not all) such complaints come down to hardware issues, OS versions, faulty previous Trainz installations or databases, antivirus software, etc and are eventually resolved.

I do not have Skyrim, Dragon Age, Diablo 2, etc and have no knowledge or experience of the issues involved in upgrading those games - maybe they are far less complex systems to update.

 

[2995Valliant]

Lennard

Hang on - jumping in with both boats?

I'm not assuming he's an experienced Trainzer either, hence my advice to run an EDR as well as agreeing with those who had advised on the importance of backing up a route he had been working on for 12 months. All I see in your post is rant (which if your join date is correct hardly makes you qualified to comment) about your perceived problems with the game; while many people may well agree with you, I don't see how that helps the OP? My 10 years worth of experience is the same as pware's. I still smile now when I see 2006 touted as the best version ever - as I recall at the time of its release it was roundly condemned as the worst version ever and the end of Trainz....

As for the OP being new, his join date is 2009 - what was that you saying about the importance of reading everything?

Regards,

Anthony

 

[JCitron]

Regardless of experience or not, backing up data is something that should be second nature for anyone who uses a computer these days. The mantra is, and should be for all, backup, backup, and backup. As a matter of principal, I backup daily any data I wish to keep. This has been part of my routine since I started using computers back in the early to mid-1980s. Our data sits precariously on a ledge as it floats around on SSDs and spins around on hard drives. All there needs to be is a glitch to take a bite out of the chips, or cause a drive to stop writing just for a split second, and that's the end of our data.

Now getting back to this situation. From what I read, I think this is what he said, the initial upgrade to SP1 went in fine and left his routes in a mess. Without knowing enough to perform an EDR and allowing the validation process to complete, everything appears stuffed up. Once he performs the EDR, and then hopefully views the errors and warnings as we've stated many times, he'll be ready for HF4 which is a 20 minute upgrade.

To Chris....

Perform an EDR via Content Manager.

1) Click on File located on the menu
2) Choose Database Repair
3) Choose Extended Database Repair.
4) Take a nap, go to work, school, or do anything else you can AWAY from your computer and all the process to complete.

Once this is done, you will probably have a bunch of errors. Don't panic!
1) Highlight the content and press the right-mouse button.
2) Choose view errors and warnings.

The process will produce a list of errors and warnings. Close the list and click on your content. The assets will then disappear from the list and you should be all set.

Trainz may, or most likely, perform a validation process after this. This can make the program act very, very clunky and stutter in driver and most likely impossible to do anything in. Let this run for quite some time, even overnight if you have to, and you should with that.

Once everything is settled in, you need to apply Hot Fix 4 (HF4). This fixes many bugs that appeared after the service pack upgrade you have performed previously. Do the HF4 patch to bring your install up to 63188. We recommend checking for errors and warnings again in Content Manager and following the steps above for this. Should there be any errors remaining, you will need to repair these assets. The error-fixes are relatively easy and are well documented in the forums.

John

 

[Lendorf]

Lennard

Hang on - jumping in with both boats?

I'm not assuming he's an experienced Trainzer either, hence my advice to run an EDR as well as agreeing with those who had advised on the importance of backing up a route he had been working on for 12 months. All I see in your post is rant (which if your join date is correct hardly makes you qualified to comment) about your perceived problems with the game; while many people may well agree with you, I don't see how that helps the OP? My 10 years worth of experience is the same as pware's. I still smile now when I see 2006 touted as the best version ever - as I recall at the time of its release it was roundly condemned as the worst version ever and the end of Trainz....

As for the OP being new, his join date is 2009 - what was that you saying about the importance of reading everything?

Regards,

Anthony

"....with both boats"?

I never wrote that.

What you describe as "rant" I would call a "qualified statement". So we differ in calling the obvious, I can live with that .

I, Lendorf, have been using various Trainz editions since Anno 2004, that should also qualify my as being reasonable experienced with Trainz. Just because I, as "Lendorf", did not frequent this forum before November 2013 certainly does not mean I never read this forum before 2013. Do you know what "lurking" means?

I still stand by my statement that N3V Games should have either tested TS12 SP1 extensively in house or had TS12 SP1 tested by their beta testers before releasing this version the way they did and we would not have needed 4 more "hot fixes" to get TS12 finally reasonably working. TS12 is still not perfect but this should not be included/debated here.

Finally, if no one speaks up about N3V Games failings in regards to TS12 SP1, don't you think N3V Games might perceive TS12 to be "perfect" :hehe:?

Lennard

 

[shaneturner12]

Let's make one thing clear here. There is no way N3V would have been able to test every single eventuality even with beta testers. There are many different hardware, software, and even content configurations, and you would need most of the community to test it in order to get anywhere near.

Shane

 

[Lendorf]

This is a very poor excuse!

The very same would also apply exactly with any of the other games around, that still begs the question, why haven't any of the other games issues like Trainz?

Now perhaps soon comes the famous quote by someone, once running out of excuses:

"But N3V Games is only a small company".

So what, other small game developers brought out in the past and present some gems of games without such hassles/issues.

I rest my case .

Lennard

 

[shaneturner12]

Some of them probably do, or are not as complex as Trainz. You will find that my comments are not an excuse, and actually reflect the situation. Trainz, like similar games, is a complex simulator where a lot of things could go wrong. It's impossible to compare it with smaller games (which is what smaller companies usually make).

Shane

 

[pware]

So what, other small game developers brought out in the past and present some gems of games without such hassles/issues.

Are all those other "small game developers" producing games which allow users to create and distribute their own content?