On what layer?

[martinvk]

One of the great improvements in Trainz Surveyor has been the addition of layers. Many a time I would be making fine adjustments to some object when I would accidentally affect another nearby object. By changing the angle of view, I could often get around the interfering object but boy was it frustrating. Now with layers, I just have to place different types of objects on different layers, lock the ones I don't want to touch and voila, no more accidental moves.

Now all this also means some new ways of working. Is there a quick way to see what object is on what layer, without questioning each object one at a time? On a small map, alternating layer visibility will cause objects to appear and disappear but on a large map, this is a rather hit and miss method.

 

[pware]

The short answer is no. The ability to hover the mouse over an object in surveyor and see its layer name or have a map view that scrolls through thelayer contents is one of the "wish list' items for trainz 2010SP123 or Trainz2011. Likewise a message showing which layer you are currently working on without having to open the layer sub menu is another item on the wish list.

 

[gisa]

It'd be neat to find out. You would think it might say something in the config about that but I guess not. You could also try to be proactive and only place certain objects on certain layers ahead of time. I.E. buildings on one layer, plants on another, junk on another, etc...but if you are building a lot and half way through it, I could see how that'd be problematic.

Either way, I'm glad they got layers into 2010: it'll make route building a lot more accurate and easier!

:wave:

Gisa ^^

 

[teddytoot]

Writing from memory, so I might be wrong, if you click on the properties button, the pop-up shows which layer the object is in and you can, if you need, change the layer. It certainly works for me if I accidentally put something in the session layer.

 

[martinvk]

... the properties button, ...

Oh your memory is not wrong but that is the slooooow way when there are hundreds if not thousands of objects to query. I was hoping that the route map would contain a list we could access. After all, the map has to remember on what layer an object is.

 

[ct_krogen]

just rember track, building and orther stuff goes into route layer,
setting up your indies go into sessions and place trainz in sessions

 

[Deano5]

So from what I can tell so far about layers (not been brave enough to tackle em yet) is as I float around in surveyor adding trees and ground cover, I can't add a missing speed sign or extra signal or add more track then stick a shunter on a new siding, or raise that bit of ground up thats just too low without changing from layer to layer or session to route layer and back again? I must be missing something here as I can't see how this would be quicker/easier?
Enlighten please oh great tech ones, I'm sooo confused now.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

no you can add whatever you want on any layer, but if you add anything under the session layer and/or its sublayers it only applies to that session. you can for instance place trains on a route layer but they will always be there, even in a new session, because they were considered part of the route itself.

 

[Dermmy]

I must be missing something here as I can't see how this would be quicker/easier?
Enlighten please oh great tech ones, I'm sooo confused now.

It isn't always quicker and/or easier, but it often is. At the simplest level it is nice to be able to edit a session without quiting from the route and re-loading: simply click the mouse.

Another fantastic use of layers is when scenery assets overlap. I recently placed an industry which covered a large area. Then I wanted to detail the scene by placing some people, cars, trucks, small sheds etc around the main asset. The problem was every time I tried to tweak one of the details I accidentally grabbed the main industry and rotated, raised, lowered it instead. Undo. Try again. Grab the main industry by mistake. Undo....

So I created a new layer, put all the details on the new layer and once I was happy with the total scene merged the new layer back into the route layer.

Easy....

Andy

 

[GaryP]

Forgive my stupidity but if the session layer is for sessions does this include track too?
It sounds like you can take the same layout and add different elements to it depending on what session you are running at that time.
Sound right?

 

[Mick_Berg]

So from what I can tell so far about layers (not been brave enough to tackle em yet) is as I float around in surveyor adding trees and ground cover, I can't add a missing speed sign or extra signal or add more track then stick a shunter on a new siding, or raise that bit of ground up thats just too low without changing from layer to layer or session to route layer and back again? I must be missing something here as I can't see how this would be quicker/easier?
Enlighten please oh great tech ones, I'm sooo confused now.

Imagine you were working in an office. Sure it would be quicker/easier to throw all the paperwork in one big box. But imagine what it would be like when you needed to find something later. That's why they use filing systems, and that's one of the advantages of layers.
Mick Berg.

Note: Just because I replied to this post doesn't mean I think of myself as a "great tech one"!

 

[itareus]

...It sounds like you can take the same layout and add different elements to it ....Sound right?....

Generally that's the idea, same route with variations but the whole concept of Route/Session/Layer (mainly because it offers so much flexibility) can take a bit of time to 'get your head around' !

Not sure I have yet.... .

 

[stovepipe]

Forgive my stupidity but if the session layer is for sessions does this include track too?
It sounds like you can take the same layout and add different elements to it depending on what session you are running at that time.
Sound right?

Absolutely right.

So for example if there isn't a trackmark you need for a session it can be added, along with track, industries, scenery, - whatever you need in fact.

It also means that the sessions can be uploaded as it doesn't change the base route.

This is a brilliant feature - how many pre-TS2010 sessions have you got on your PC that can't be shared because you changed the route...?

Very sensibly Auran have now decided to run a session-creation competition for the built-in routes - see the September newsletter.

It's AUS$1000 for the winner.......

 

[ct_krogen]

Forgive my stupidity but if the session layer is for sessions does this include track too?
It sounds like you can take the same layout and add different elements to it depending on what session you are running at that time.
Sound right?

yes tiy can lay track in a seesion, but in your route layer it will be missing
i know that first hand.....

 

[wreeder]

Forgive my stupidity but if the session layer is for sessions does this include track too?
It sounds like you can take the same layout and add different elements to it depending on what session you are running at that time.
Sound right?

Yes Gary, You can add track to the session layer and it will appear only when the session is run. There are some limits and a little playing around with it will show you what you can and can't do. The big on is that any track on a session layer can only connect to track on a route layer at a existing spline point. In other words, you can't connect the track in the middle of a spline segment. Also if the track on the route moves even a tiny amount when making the connection, surveyor will require you to save the route as well as the session.

William

 

[GaryP]

Yes Gary, You can add track to the session layer and it will appear only when the session is run. There are some limits and a little playing around with it will show you what you can and can't do. The big on is that any track on a session layer can only connect to track on a route layer at a existing spline point. In other words, you can't connect the track in the middle of a spline segment. Also if the track on the route moves even a tiny amount when making the connection, surveyor will require you to save the route as well as the session.

William

I have to try that. How do you keep it from moving?
So I can make a test circle of track then save as a basic layout then make all kinds of things and save each one separately.
I got to sit down last night and play Trainz for the first time in almost 2 years. It was T2010 and it blew me away.

It's changed so much. I can't wait for the weekend so I can spend 4 or more hours on it.

 

[wreeder]

I have to try that. How do you keep it from moving?

You just have to be very careful in choosing how to make the connection. I don't know of any foolproof way of doing it.

There is a thread by pware where he documents his experiments which would proof interesting to you.

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=50718&highlight=layers

There have been changes to the layer system behavior since this thread so playing around a bit is advised.

William

 

[GaryP]

Thanks wreeder. That is an interesting thread.
So much to re-learn and learn new about this version.

 

[ess1]

Layers - S&C Add on

I have the S&C add on within 2010 SP3.

When trying to edit route or session in surveyor I am unable to carry out any Portal details, i.e. "return from portal xxx" etc. When entering properties for the portal all I see is the screen for the portal with its name.

Must be a way to change portals/industries surely. Help appreciated.

 

[itareus]

....When entering properties for the portal all I see is the screen for the portal with its name.....

Which portal as you using? (post KUID if you can).