Newbie Surveyor Question

parsifal300

New member
Hi All;
I am attempting to add a side track to an existing route and having difficulties I cannot find answers for in the documentation.

The objective is to add a mining operation to the Gloucester Terminal Railroad route to feed the power plant. The challenge I have is I cannot get the consist to approach the mine, complete the load, run around the train and then commence the haul to the power plant.

I have created a spur that comes off the passenger portal tracks, a spur that connects to a 2-track tipple-style mine. Problem 1 is if I start the consist on the spur the loco gets to the junction for track 1 or track 2 and just revs the loco but does not approach the loading area of either track. An exclamation point comes up in the driver's icon but right-clicking the consist does not reveal why the consist is having a problem.

If I start the consist on the main line, the loco finds it's way through the junction to the tipple mine, loads only the first car (problem 2), pulls the remaining empty cars through the mine without loading them, disconnects and runs around the train on track two only to reverse at the junction and then get stuck at the junction without connecting to the consist. Again, the loco just revs and idles, revs and idles with only an exclamation point showing there's a problem but no explanation as to what the problem is. The loco does not approach the consist.

I have used multiple mines, re-layed track multiple times, reset signaling, verified directional track, reconfigured junctions but all to the same end result.

So my questions are (1) why does the loco get stuck at the junction to track 1 and track 2 towards the tipple mine, and (2) if I can get the consist there why does only the first car load?

Thanks in advance.
~P
 
Hi parsifal300,
(1) why does the loco get stuck at the junction to track 1 and track 2 towards the tipple mine?
There could be a number of reasons why this happens. Firstly, do you have a Buffer at the end of your spurs? These act as signals which work with any other signals within your spur and allows trains to move up to them. If there is no buffer the train may not want to travel in that direction.
What loco are you using to haul coal? Can it handle a full load? You may need two.
If your switches (junctions) have been reset, try using a temporary track marker at various places along your spur to see whether your train recognises each one. I usually try this out to ensure there are no 'breaks' in the line. Placing temporary signals can help here too.
Have you specifically 'named' your mine? By the same token the train may not recognise where it is going.

(2) if I can get the consist there why does only the first car load?
There could be a couple of reasons for this. First of all is the spur long enough past the mine, giving sufficient space to complete the loading, de-couple, move ahead, reverse, to the run-around?
Have you adjusted the 'specs' for the mine to supply sufficient volume to your wagons - I always increase the default to 500000 which is good for 15 - 20 wagons. If you have a lot of wagons, set up (2) mines and get your train to run from one to the other - this will generally fill all your wagons.
Have you checked the 'specs' on the wagons selected to verify that they will actually load that particular commodity? Some wagons need the commodity to be nominated.

I haven't got all the answers, however I'm sure others will give you their thoughts too. Good luck.

Cheers,
Roy3b3
 
I'm glad you like my "updated" version of George Fisher's awesome original route! :) I still use this one myself, though I've made other changes to it since then. :D

If you are interested, here's a Bing map of the area where the route is located.

http://binged.it/1VgIdTA

http://binged.it/1VgImXh


Anyway what I do to get the AI to fill all the hopper cars is to drive to a track mark before the mine load out, wait for 5 seconds, then drive at 5 mph through the mine.

The drive to track mark forces the AI on to the spur and the 5-second pause gives the AI driver and mine script a chance to initialize. Then the 5 mph speed through the mine ensures the hopper cars are filled completely.


John
 
Hi parsifal300,
(1) why does the loco get stuck at the junction to track 1 and track 2 towards the tipple mine?
There could be a number of reasons why this happens. Firstly, do you have a Buffer at the end of your spurs? These act as signals which work with any other signals within your spur and allows trains to move up to them. If there is no buffer the train may not want to travel in that direction.
What loco are you using to haul coal? Can it handle a full load? You may need two.
If your switches (junctions) have been reset, try using a temporary track marker at various places along your spur to see whether your train recognises each one. I usually try this out to ensure there are no 'breaks' in the line. Placing temporary signals can help here too.
Have you specifically 'named' your mine? By the same token the train may not recognise where it is going.
[\QUOTE]
The loco is a GP9 hauling 5 empty 2-bay coal hoppers up a 3.5% grade. The level loading area can handle 9 cars after the loading point and before the turnaround junction. The area between the turnaround junction and the buffer can handle 4 cars. I can get the consist to the mine if the loco starts on the main line. It will get to the mine, load one of the 5 coal cars, the AI "load" icon will disappear and the loco moves up to my trackmark in prep for the runaround. The loco will disconnect, run around the consist past the initial (troublesome) junction but upon reversing gets stuck at the junction that should lead it to the other end of the coal cars in prep to haul it out.

(2) if I can get the consist there why does only the first car load?
There could be a couple of reasons for this. First of all is the spur long enough past the mine, giving sufficient space to complete the loading, de-couple, move ahead, reverse, to the run-around?
Have you adjusted the 'specs' for the mine to supply sufficient volume to your wagons - I always increase the default to 500000 which is good for 15 - 20 wagons. If you have a lot of wagons, set up (2) mines and get your train to run from one to the other - this will generally fill all your wagons.
Have you checked the 'specs' on the wagons selected to verify that they will actually load that particular commodity? Some wagons need the commodity to be nominated.
[\QUOTE]
I have run trackmarks up to and beyond the troublesome junction. The AI icons for trackpoint navigation will disappear up to the junction even though the loco does not approach the junction. It appears the loco thinks it has reached the trackmark even though it did not go over it. (Same thing with the load; it loads the first car then the load icon goes away and it starts to prep for the runaround even though there are 4 more cars to go.) I have checked the initial supply in the mine and it is ample for the loading of 5 cars.

Great idea on giving a specific name to the mine. I will try that along with running 2 locos. I will update with the results.

Thanks for the help.
 
I'm glad you like my "updated" version of George Fisher's awesome original route! :) I still use this one myself, though I've made other changes to it since then. :D

If you are interested, here's a Bing map of the area where the route is located.

http://binged.it/1VgIdTA

http://binged.it/1VgImXh


Anyway what I do to get the AI to fill all the hopper cars is to drive to a track mark before the mine load out, wait for 5 seconds, then drive at 5 mph through the mine.

The drive to track mark forces the AI on to the spur and the 5-second pause gives the AI driver and mine script a chance to initialize. Then the 5 mph speed through the mine ensures the hopper cars are filled completely.


John

Hey John, I'm never too old to learn another 'trick' I didn't know before.
Great idea! Set a trackmark within your spur, add a 5 second pause, add a speed limit and you're done. Smooth as silk. It's so simple.

Cheers mate!
Roy
 
Just had a close 'Google Earth' look at Gloucester. It's such a pretty place and looks a lot like England around the coastline. No wonder the mob on the Mayflower from Plymouth picked it to settle there.

Thinking again, it's quite clever to integrate a Tram system to the Gloucester Terminal Railroad, which does allow you to take in the great views, that the trains would miss out on. I played around on this route several years ago,... maybe it's time to play around some more.

Cheers,
Roy
 
Success, it appears there was not enough power. Apparently it takes 3 GP9 to haul 3 empty hoppers up a 3% grade from a dead stop. The lone GP9 couldn't even get a start up the hill. With the 3 locos the loading issue appears to have gone away. Live and learn.

I've seen multiple references to scripts and to 10 second waits. I am assuming the GUI for the AI instruction is simply a symbolic reference that actually creates a script. If this is true can one get better control over trainz by directly editing the script? If so, where is the script saved and are there any tutorials on editing them?

Also, at what point in the instructions in the AI command-line is a 10sec wait most prudent?

Thanks all for your help.

P.S. I'm actually from just north of the Gloucester area. It is fun to imagine where the portals are getting their loads from.
 
Success, it appears there was not enough power. Apparently it takes 3 GP9 to haul 3 empty hoppers up a 3% grade from a dead stop. The lone GP9 couldn't even get a start up the hill. With the 3 locos the loading issue appears to have gone away. Live and learn.

I've seen multiple references to scripts and to 10 second waits. I am assuming the GUI for the AI instruction is simply a symbolic reference that actually creates a script. If this is true can one get better control over trainz by directly editing the script? If so, where is the script saved and are there any tutorials on editing them?

Also, at what point in the instructions in the AI command-line is a 10sec wait most prudent?

Thanks all for your help.

P.S. I'm actually from just north of the Gloucester area. It is fun to imagine where the portals are getting their loads from.

I have the AI drive to the track mark, wait 5 seconds, though 10 seconds work as well. Then proceed on.

I wouldn't doubt that a single GP9 might find this a bit steep. Coal can get pretty heavy.

I don't live to far from the area myself - a bit farther west up the Merrimack River in Haverhill. There are a few local Trainzers around and I keep in touch in person with two right here in eastern MA.

@Roy it sure does look a lot like England. I guess that's why it was called New England. If you head a bit north and west towards Essex and Ipswich it's even more so like it. :D

John
 
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