Need help about UK Signalling Practices

[fen_tiger]

I am currently building up my Wisbech line based upon the former GER branch from the town of March, Cambs, to Magdalen Road, Norfolk and I'm using semaphore signals on part of the route. therefore, I need to determine the distance between a semaphore home and its semaphore distant signal

My questions...

* what is the UK signalling practice distance in metres between a home semaphore signal and its distant semaphore signal?

* Also, what is the UK signalling distance in metres between a UK 3-aspect colour light signal and its 2-aspect colour light signal?


Many thanks if you know this info that I cannot somehow seem to source from the internet.

Andy.

 

[ray_whiley]

Andy

I believe that the answer is - it all depends! Not very helpful, I know, but what I mean is that it all depends on the maximum permitted speed on a given length of track between signals. For example, a distant signal must give enough space for a train at maximum permitted speed to slow down ready to stop. A home signal must give sufficinet space for the slowed train to stop before the 'hazard' it protects.

There is a book by GM Kitchenside on UK signalling practice - I can't remember the title and it's probably only available second-hand nowadays. There are of course books on Model Railway signalling eg. by Cyril Freezer (who else?) but these shorten the distance between signals, which are of course controlled by the same person as the one controlling the trains. There is also a website which may be helpful - 'The Signal Box'.

I believe that the maximum distance between a signal box and a manually controlled semaphore signal was about 300 yards (problem with the connecting cable stretching).

I hope others with more knowledge will be able to help more.

Ray

PS You might also find 'The Signal Page' and 'Signal Links' helpful - at the moment, they are just names I recall and I haven't looked at them recently.

 

[BLACKWATCH]

There is a book by GM Kitchenside on UK signalling practice - I can't remember the title and it's probably only available second-hand nowadays.

And a very good book it is too
The ISBN is 0 7110 0898 1 picked my copy up from a book stall on a preservation line, worth keeping an eye open for.

 

[fen_tiger]

Hi Ray and Blackwatch

Many thanks to you both. I'll keep an eye out for that book the next time I am at a model railway exhibition. For now though, I'll use my train lengths to roughly work out the distances between the home signals and distant signals. I'll be running trains at 25mph on my branch line.

Andy.

 

[Kennilworth]

Hi

As mentioned by Ray there was no set distance between signals. It would depend on the local line speed and whether it was on a rising or falling gradient. I believe the maximum distance for a lever and wire signal from the signal box was a mile as this was regarded as the limit for a person to be able to manage physically. Where signal boxes were close together such as the approach to a terminus or in a large yard the distant signal would be on the same post as the last home signal of the preceding box. It was possible to have distant signals more than a mile from the box when they were motorised or, as on stretches of the SnC add on route, by using early colour light signals as distants.

This website will give you the basics of UK signalling and also has many actual track and signalling diagrams from signal boxes http://www.signalbox.org/index.php

Regards

Brian

 

[ray_whiley]

Hi Andy

I'm pleased to see on your other post that you found a very useful table - it's in my 'Trainz documents' folder now.

Ray

 

[fen_tiger]

Thanks Ray.

It took me some intensive searching on the internet to dig out that UK signal spacing guide, now saved as a jpeg on my PC. I can now re-position all my home & distant semaphore signals and the colour-light signals on my two routes into the correct distances from each other.

Andy.

 

[davidbird]

If you're building a copy of a real line, the check out the Old-Maps website, http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html. If you can get a 1:2500 map of your area (and era), then that will show the actual position of the signals, marked with the letters "SP". Of course, maps were not meant to be specifically about the railways, so take care over these positions, don't rely on them 100% - but they'll be a good guide.

 

[mezzoprezzo]

Old-Maps website

.
I can also also recommend the Old-Maps website.

If you're very lucky you might find an even more detailed scale (1:500) which will have not just signals, but a plethora of other railway buildings and equipment. The tracks show both rails and the positions of the point levers. I've used some of these as Surveyor basemaps for Salisbury.

Here's part of the 1:500 map dated 1880.

 

[fen_tiger]

Many thanks for the info regarding the old-maps website.

I now have my route in place and signalled using an old British Rail signal spacing table guide I found on the internet - see my other post 'UK signalling spacing guide'

My route has been awkward to build as most of the prototype route across the Cambridgshire / Norfolk Fens no longer exists, and I had to rely on my railway books for maps, plans and photos of the old stations. See my ''Wisbech line - WIP' thread on the forum Screenshots for what I've done so far. I will add more images to my screenshot thread as and when my route slowly progresses into how I want it to be, as based upon the real former branch line and the surrounding Fenland landscape.

Andy.