My view of Auran's move on 04/06

[mitch456yui]

Hey everyone,
I thought about this a few weeks back but didn't want to post it because I thought it'd cause a stir. I'm only giving my point of view, not trying to start an argument.

Around the forums lately, there have been a lot of threads about Auran's 'Life Cycle Policy', and how horrible it is. I have to agree, it's not nice, but...

Auran have supported all of our precious copies from Trainz to TS2010. But they have announced that their support, such as access to the DLS, downloading via CMP, support via the Helpdesk and access to the iTrainz network, will be withdrawn eventually. We can't expect Auran to go on supporting all this outdated content, I mean, come on. The original Trainz was bought out in 2001, it is now 2010. Trainz 04 was from late 03 (I'm actually not sure, am I right?) and Trainz 06 was from late 05. (Not sure here either) It's been about 4 and a bit years for 06 users. You can not seriously expect them to keep supporting you forever can you? Like Microsoft, you don't see them offering support for Windows 98, 95 or maybe even Millenium users do you? It costs them money. Auran are trying to make money, that's the whole point. You think Auran make's games as a hobby in the back shed? No, they intend to make good games that people will buy, thus making money! They've got me hooked, I'm thinking about asking mum for TS2010 for my birthday.

I think it's a bit pointless asking them to retain your support for the DLS. So, why don't we all go off and create a site for the TRS and Trainz users? Where all the content is kept. I'm not stopping you, go right ahead! I'll even visit the site! (I still use 06 sometimes) But, this asks another question in my head. Look at what has happened here, on the Auran site. Now tell me, wouldn't the commitee or board or whatever in charge of this new huge Trainz - TRS site end up doing the same thing that Auran is going to do, and ditch all of the earlier Trainz users as current versions of the game (i.e. TC, TS09, TS10) flood into the site as Auran's support deadlines are passed?

Maybe everyone should just get a newer version of our beloved game, and go with the flow? TS2009 is great, the frame rates are great on my PC, but much better with SP3. I have 09, with SP3, and the only issue is trying to get your steam locos to work using newer enginespecs. But then, 'what about frame rates' or 'my computer isn't big enough for it'. I can't say get a new computer, because, well, not everyone can afford a good PC, and we're train lovers! Auran thinks we're going to buy a new PC to play TS2010, in which the gameplay is virtually the same in TRS06? Nah, I'll just go into the shed and run my model trains or go out to the station and have a day of Trainspotting, which costs literally nothing compared to a supersonic PC to run Trainz. This is a roadblock in Auran's way, which they don't seem to be slowing down for, adding Speedtrees and other new, frame rate eating aspects to the game. Maybe Auran should make a frame rate effective version of Trainz? Which is cheap and just like 2010 or whatever but the routes have had detailed objects/splines (i.e. Speedtrees, big buildings) replaced with objects/splines that look similar and have low polygons to assist frame rates. Auran should take quick whip through the DLS and maybe a wander around the forums should supply sufficient content. If not, maybe whip out their dusty copies of UTC and look through the content installed on there, then update them to current standards, but not by souping them up to create yet another frame rate killing monster. That would bring the bulk of Trainz users up to date, without causing them great dispair as they work that $1500 for a new computer off. (Taking a hint Auran?) Or maybe Kevin Rudd will give everyone a stimulus package to buy a new, high tech computer?:hehe:

I'm not trying to make a fuss, just giving my view. Some of my statements may be wrong, so, without yelling and screaming, correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, thats my view of the situation. I'd certainly like to see yours. This thread is about expressing your views on the matter of Auran's Life Cycle Policy. Post away!
Thanks,
Mitch

 

[johnwhelan]

If you were correct about TS2010 in native running slower than TRS2004 with the same content I'd say you had a strong point.

Unfortunately on the majority of machines the frame rates on TS2910 are the same or better with the same distance settings and content.

Cheerio John

 

[fran1]

If you were correct about TS2010 in native running slower than TRS2004 with the same content I'd say you had a strong point.

Unfortunately on the majority of machines the frame rates on TS2910 are the same or better with the same distance settings and content.

Cheerio John

You have got a very new copy of trainz John, service pack number?

 

[Jaymom]

Mitch I read your post with great interest and agree with 95 percent of it. The one part I dont agree with is this.... "A quick whip through the DLS and maybe a wander around the forums should supply sufficient content. If not, maybe whip out their dusty copies of UTC and look through the content installed on there, then update them to current standards, but not by souping them up to create yet another frame rate killing monster. That would bring the bulk of Trainz users up to date, without causing them great dispair as they work that $1500 for a new computer off."

A very high percentage of all Trainz users havent got a clue as to how to repair or update anything found on the DLS. And they shouldnt have to either. When I buy an automobile I shouldn't have to learn to be a mechanic. For those people who do enjoy doing so (of which I am one) that is great but dont expect it from all buyers.

Auran is moving away from us to the point where they are "delegating authority" beyond their means of controlling anything. This new server problem is a good example. They talk about a 24 hour fix and here it has been weeks now with no way to download other than using Trainz Downloader Pro.

I have TRS2004, TRS2006 and TS2010. I found TS2010 disapointing so went back to TRS2006 where all my own layouts works perfectly. I dont need the hassle of "repairing" a hundred or so items just so that they will run in TS2010. I dont run other peoples layouts just my own.

If the CEO of Trainz and his board members wanted this server problem fixed immediately it would be done immediately. To think otherwise would be saying they had no control over their own company.

Harold

 

[mitch456yui]

Mitch I read your post with great interest and agree with 95 percent of it. The one part I dont agree with is this.... "A quick whip through the DLS and maybe a wander around the forums should supply sufficient content. If not, maybe whip out their dusty copies of UTC and look through the content installed on there, then update them to current standards, but not by souping them up to create yet another frame rate killing monster. That would bring the bulk of Trainz users up to date, without causing them great dispair as they work that $1500 for a new computer off."

A very high percentage of all Trainz users havent got a clue as to how to repair or update anything found on the DLS. And they shouldnt have to either. When I buy an automobile I shouldn't have to learn to be a mechanic. For those people who do enjoy doing so (of which I am one) that is great but dont expect it from all buyers.

Harold

Ahh, sorry. I mean't Auran get out their UTC, not the players. Auran should go through each route on 2010 and refine to a low poly frame rate friendly route, then release a low poly TS2010. I will edit my post so it says this clearly, sorry.
Thanks,
Mitch

 

[brakemen]

preparing for september for trs04 and trs06

what ever happens will happen on september. I cannot change that but I can be prepared for it. I'm now in the process of downloading anything that works with trs06 included trs04. so that way when the doomsday comes in september I'll be set that way I still have my game and still play and do not need to bother to dl any more. but can I still use the ftp and cmp to use I do not know only time will tell. as far as I see it auran still supports utc and trainz sp3 ( correct me if I'm wrong) so why not because you know 2010 is full of faulty errors and to complex to use.

if I read the posts right auran is going to unsupport trs04/06 for dls. but can I still use the cmp in trs06( just a thought) I think I can still keep the game trs06 and play with it and build with it but the only thing I cannot do is to download anything for the dls( I think I'm right do not know on that subject). as long I keep my cmp so I can dl from other web sites I'm ok. as for the ftp can I still use it I do not think so since ftp is part of the dls.

my thoughts on this only I'm just preparing for whats next

I was thinking to save all my content I have downloaded on a externel hard drive or maybe flash drive just in case something happens

 

[angelah]

Dedicated Site

If all those who own and use older versions (like me, although I did buy 2010) want to continue down and Uploading content and Auran say they won't do it anymore, then the obvious thing is for folk to get together and start an independant site for it.
This might open a good few eyes though, to the real problems and expense of running a large site like the DS.
Alternatively run your own site, as I do, but I admit I haven't updated it for a while... it is still there though.
This will spread assets and routes all over the place, naturally, so the first choice is the best.
Such a move would require people to put their hands into the wallets/purses and pay for it, there would be no alternative, such as an Access Ticket or some such thing, renewable yearly.

I have not the faintest idea how to repair or fix assets. I use them and that's as far as it goes.

Once this section of my WCL is finished I may even get time to run 2010 again and even get used to it and all the new functions, bells and whistles. I am looking forward to that. It ran well enough on my PC which ran it on a Radeon 4650, not exactly a topline card to say the least! That was in Compatibility Mode, but it ran and that was the important thing.

I posted on the other thread about this and understand Auran's motives (I think). They are business based, but then what else are they supposed to be? They are a business.

It is sad when a version loses support, or in this case the ability to Upload/download content. Mainly Uploading which will stop completely, as I believe that as long as you buy an FCT you will still be able to download all content that is on the DS. That is how I read this, correct me if I am wrong.

A good thread, I hope people view it as such and post sensibly.

Angela

 

[cascaderailroad]

It is my understanding that all 04/06 content will be unable to be downloaded & uploaded, whatsoever, come September, whether you have a FCT or not...correct me if I am wrong.

 

[American_Connections]

Alternate Sources

If all those who own and use older versions (like me, although I did buy 2010) want to continue down and Uploading content and Auran say they won't do it anymore, then the obvious thing is for folk to get together and start an independant site for it.
Angela

I think John has got a good start on this with his Trainz Resources Directory
From Information for... Content Creators
"Assets Only Listed on DLS (No Web Site)
Write to me and let me know how many assets you have listed on DLS and I'll get back to you."

 

[aardvark1]

It is my understanding that all 04/06 content will be unable to be downloaded & uploaded, whatsoever, come September, whether you have a FCT or not...correct me if I am wrong.

i do not want to say if you are right...or....wrong.

But, Windwalkr says:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showpost.php?p=576018&postcount=65

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by paulzmay
Bearing in mind how much can change in 5 years, or how many times Auran have announced grand long term plans that come to nothing, I don't suppose anyone would really expect a statement now to hold much weight in the distant future.

I agree that our forward-looking statements haven't always been particularly reliable, and it's exactly for that reason that I'd like to avoid making them.


Quote:
... I can understand that you can't make long term promises, but a commitment to retaining content that is being actively used (frequently downloaded, often used in routes etc) would not come amiss.
Unfortunately this is contradictory. I can either make long term promises, or I can't. It is safest for me to simply stand with my above statement:

.. we don't have any current plans to actively cull the DLS, and that anyone who says otherwise is looking to build a conspiracy theory.

I'm not sure how much more clear I can be. If anyone wants to build a conspiracy theory, I can't stop them. But I am willing to tell them to their face that it's a conspiracy theory.

chris
-----------------------------------------------

Hopefully, someone can point me to a post by anyone at N3V (aka as Auran)... that assets will be deleted or not be available for download.

Thanks,

 

[mezzoprezzo]

It is my understanding that all 04/06 content will be unable to be downloaded & uploaded, whatsoever, come September, whether you have a FCT or not...correct me if I am wrong.

This should help clarify the position:http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php5/Trainz_Life-Cycle_Policy

As I read it, buy an FCT and you can download as much as you want, but expect a cull at some stage - of some items.

However, uploads in 04/06 will not be permitted because the versions will no longer be supported. What doesn't go up, will not come down. So you won't get any new assets - just old items that haven't been culled.

Casper

 

[sparky15]

Third party sites may grow.

Users will spend more time searching the net for dependencies instead of using CM, making CM more ineffective.

Third party sites may not have the required error checking so no guarantee what you need will work in 09/10.

Isn't some of this what they want to avoid? Should sell a lot of copies to new users. At least if they allowed older content to be uploaded they could ensure proper error checking. Of all these threads not once has anyone addressed potential new users. You know, the ones who buy their first copy, try to download and fix content, get frustrated and bin it never to return. The ones on other sim forums who then relate the negative to others who then pass on this product.

Trainz already has a stigma of being toyish and a pain because of endless CDP hunts and errors. This just may have the possibility of making that worse.

A lot of other factors to consider outside of your personal wants. Be careful what you wish for. This decision may have negative effects you never thought of.

Dave....

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody.
I think Angelah Hit the nail right on the head. Six years is a long time in the computer world.

It may be sad to see 04/06 go but you cannot expect Auran to keep up support for ever. So if its time for us all to move on then thats the way it will have to be.

It maybe that some will find it hard to upgrade their computers because of the cost. However, We all have to update our cars every few years as much as we dont want to because of the cost, but we do it because we have to do it.

if you think of your computer in the same way you may find it easier so swallow. As i said Times Move on.

Bill:'(

 

[Paul_Bert]

I think Auran is making the right decision here. It is a very small company and no one is making a fortune creating, selling, and supporting Trainz. Expecting Auran is support forever every version they have ever made could severly weaken the company to the point where they would just shut down. Then everyone would lose.

Last year I moved on to TS2010 from version 2004. I run it only in native mode. I have over 30,000 installed error free assets available. Did I have to give some up when I started using 2010. Yes. But the benefits far outway these loses.

I now get far better performance on my old computer using native mode 2010, with all the settings cranked all the way to the right, than I ever did with 2004. Plus many of the new features are very appealing to me (yes I like most of the Speed Treez). I can now see avoiding upgrading my computer for at least another year using version 2010.

Are there issues with 2010, definently yes, but there also were some with 2004. On large routes 2004 would often crash. I have never had a crash so far with 2010.

Time moves forward, especially in the computer world. If we want to continue enjoying Trainz in the future we also need to move on and support Auran. Most of us have gotten far more enjoyment out of version 2004 than the $30 we paid for it.

 

[Boobless_ed]

I agree completely with the OP. Time to move on. And Auran simply aren't in the business of making conspiracies.

The old promises that never came true might actually come true if Auran concentrates their efforts into more recent versions of Trainz.

 

[Paulsw2]

... I found TS2010 disapointing so went back to TRS2006 where all my own layouts works perfectly. I dont need the hassle of "repairing" a hundred or so items just so that they will run in TS2010.

And as long as we continue to allow people to upload assets created to TRS04 standards then we will continue to have the 'hassle' of repairing them for more advanced versions of the game. Insisting that only those with post-TRS06 versions (with higher standards of error checking) can upload after September is the best filter that Auran have to ensure error free assets on the Download Station - something that most people say they want.

As an owner of TS10, I want an error free DLS so I have confidence in downloading to my game. We will not get that if Auran continue to permit uploading from a six year old version of the game with unacceptably permissive standards of error checking. Roll on September I say! :hehe:

Paul

 

[paulzmay]

And as long as we continue to allow people to upload assets created to TRS04 standards then we will continue to have the 'hassle' of repairing them for more advanced versions of the game. Insisting that only those with post-TRS06 versions (with higher standards of error checking) can upload after September is the best filter that Auran have to ensure error free assets on the Download Station - something that most people say they want.

As an owner of TS10, I want an error free DLS so I have confidence in downloading to my game. We will not get that if Auran continue to permit uploading from a six year old version of the game with unacceptably permissive standards of error checking. Roll on September I say! :hehe:

Paul

I'm pretty certain that the DLS now checks ALL uploaded content to the appropriate standard with a pretty good degree of accuracy. Most of my items are uploaded to build 1.3 or 2, and I've had rejections for unsupported material slots, dodgy tags, kuid2 in build 1.3 etc. I've also only seen one faulty new upload in months. The issue for Auran in continuing to accept TRS04/06 is that they have to check that those versions' content is not uploaded with tags from TS2009/10 - this is a complication they can avoid by dropping upload support.

Paul

 

[wholbr]

Hi There Again Everybody.
It's nice to see some consensus at least on this thread. It would seem that most of us have come forward from using earlier versions of Trainz. However, many 2004 and 2006 users do not wish to accept that Auran itself has to move on if it is to survive.

Since purchasing 2010 I have downloaded many assets from the DLS and have finished up with a sea of red in the content manager. To any new user where 2010 was their first version of Trainz this undoubtedly would look very disappointing. You would be wondering about the value of the product you bought and perhaps thinking of consigning Trainz to your desk drawer as I did with rail simulator being disgusted at its performance when first bought.

Like them perhaps, I know nothing about asset creation or how to repair content. I enjoy creating routes and driving on them which I believe is what the majority of Trainz users enjoy doing. Content creators have the choice of either placing their creations on the download station as freeware for everyone to enjoy or placing their assets on a separate website as payware, the choice is theirs.

I very much respect the time and effort put into creating some of the great content we have for Trainz. But content creators cannot expect to see that content maintained for ever on the DLS if it is outdated for use in newer versions. As stated it's time to move on, either this content can be updated or at some point it must be removed.

Bill

 

[Great_Lakes]

Do you know how long it is taking me to make this large route I am working on? It is in 2006 and let me tell you, If I can't find download anything anymore from the DLS than you are tempting me to not buy any Auran products in the future.

Your other products suck-I don't want to downgrade because its not worth my darn time. Also I have better things to do with my life than fight over crappy software like watching paint dry or grass grow. You developers in Auran don't give me personally, much room to be tolerant and patient when you do stupid stuff like speed trees which is meaningless going 100mph with a passenger train and from the sound of it, eats up frame rates.

Believe me when I say this; your business practice is laughable at best-my niece could operate a business in a healthier and customer relations friendly manner, better than you.

 

[tmz06003]

I'm pretty certain that the DLS now checks ALL uploaded content to the appropriate standard with a pretty good degree of accuracy. Most of my items are uploaded to build 1.3 or 2, and I've had rejections for unsupported material slots, dodgy tags, kuid2 in build 1.3 etc. I've also only seen one faulty new upload in months. The issue for Auran in continuing to accept TRS04/06 is that they have to check that those versions' content is not uploaded with tags from TS2009/10 - this is a complication they can avoid by dropping upload support.

Paul

That is correct Paul(zmay); if a TRS2004 asset is uploaded and gets on the DLS now, it will work in TRS2010.

I still create assets that work in both TRS2004 and TRS2010, but I have to be realistic about what I'm reading on these forums about the changes in September.