Keep it clean!

[SuperFudd]

Hi all,

I know it has been mentioned here before if only because I have mentioned it but it is worth repeating as "it" has happened to me again.
KEEP YOUR COMPUTER CLEAN!
Lately I had noticed some slight change in noise. It seemed like the pitch of sound from fans and/or HDs would change slightly at times. When I first noticed it I checked the temperatures (CPU, GPU, case) and the CPU temp seemed higher than normal but not to much. I checked the voltages and they seemed OK, so I ignored it.
Yesterday it rebooted, repeatedly, fortunately during Trainz forum, not Trainz. Suspecting it may have overheated I let it sit awhile and tried again. It had been maybe 6 months since I had cleaned the computer. After booting I checked temps and voltages. The 12V was taking a dive!
I cleaned the dust from all fans and vents including removing, disassembling and cleaning the CPU fan and heat sink and aplying new heat sink compound.
It is now running quite cool. Voltages are very stable and all is well.

System specs of this 7 year old machine below:

 

[leeferr]

You're right, cleaning is very important. I try to take mine apart and clean everything that I can about every month or two, but I'm not as regular with it as I should be. Whenever I hear my fans kicking in more often than usual, I figure that it's time for a good cleaning.
Mike

 

[SuperFudd]

Hi again. What I keyed about cleaning is, of coarse, true but this computer just rebooted again. This time I was working on my latest fantastic layout/route in suveyor at the time.:'( The good news is the atomatic backup worked fine.
My fear now is an intermitant capacitor on the 12V line. I am monitoring the voltages and they look fine for the moment. Now might be a good time to do some back ups.

 

[SuperFudd]

I am back. Sorry for the delay. My computer passed on.
I did some backups but not of the layout I was working on. I trust it is still secure on the hard drive. Not a problem as I can't work on it with this 500MHz P III w/ 192 meg of RAM machine I dug up out of the garage and resurected. When I get enployed again or retired, wich ever comes first, I will get a new computer and get back to it. Meanwhile my WP / SP from Stockton to Milpitas California will be on hold.

 

[fran1]

Which caused the fault, PSU, mobo or CPU.

 

[UP5521]

It is good to hear that your back and I'm sorry about your computer, your not the only one who is having computer problems and I tried cleaning mine but more problems emerged and yes thats why I have to get a new one!

 

[JCitron]

SuperFudd,

My warm and fuzzies tend to tell me it isn't a capacitor because your machine has been running for quite awhile. Asus had a batch of bad motherboards a few years ago due to bad capacitors, but your mobo is a lot older than that. The fact that it happened after overheating, tends to make me think otherwise.

There are a number of devices that run off of the 12V line including fans. If one of them has some failed bearings, or a bushing, it will drag on your 12V and cause all kinds of problems.

Hard drives too. Keep an eye on this, and listen for any weird sounds such as clicking, grinding, etc. I had one hard disk fail a few years ago that sounded like an old PCC trolley pulling into Park Street station in Boston!. There's a really tight curve in the tunnel from Boylston Street on to Tremont where Park Street is, and the trolleys slow down to about 10 mph and squeel around the curve slowly. Well, my hard disk made the same sound!

Your computer problem could be as simple as a bad memory stick. $30-60 roughly, or even less. Or just your power supply. About $30-50. My guts go for a new PS. Just for kicks, try memtest86 and see what it tells you about your DIMMs.

Good luck,

John

 

[Rusty1955]

In the last week I have rebuilt mine. I took what I could use out of my old computer, added a new mobo, 4 megs of memory, onboard video (1gig), a new case (HAF 932), and an Ultra 1600 watt power supply. Got a big p/s due to the fact I have room for 5 more hard disks.

 

[Johnk]

New motherboards are dirt cheap these days, but the cpu may boost the price a bit. I thinlk 2 gig of ram is now about 60 bucks even in Oz. I'm thinking of going up to 4 gig myself.

SuperFudd I thought your advice was excellent advice except for one thing. Removing the fan from the CPU, removing the CPU itself and replacing the grease isn't the most simple task on earth. As an ex computer repairer, it's the job I hated most. I certainly wouldn't suggest anyone without experience tackling it. Even with due care, I've managed to bend and eventually break a pin on at least two CPU's. It's so easy to do. Maybe if you removed your CPU again, you may find that's also your problem.

As far as cleaning is concerned, I pay special attention to the little silver lugs coming out of chips. Dust accumulates there and can often cause problems. One of those 1/2 inch wide Artist's flat brushes are ideal for digging the dust out. Also a pressure pack can of liquid air from a photography or electronics store is a good investment.

 

[UP5521]

Simple,yet effective!

 

[BRIANA]

It Has happened to me and my sister alot of times its happened to her the most because she never wants to clean anything I went into hers there was a spider living in the Cpu and so much dust that if Dust was Valuable I'd be rich

 

[SuperFudd]

Good point about a bit of dust across pins as it may absorb moisture from the air and...
Unfortunately my can of compressed air died about half way through the job and I have misplaced my (formerly my wife's) make up brush. I supose I should look into that posibility further.
I was able to easily remove the CPU heat sink from the CPU with out removing the CPU from the main board but yes, on the job (when I had one) I had mangled a contact or two.
I have two friends who have told me, independantly, that they have had the same symptom due to failed video card.

 

[paulzmay]

Mine packed up a couple of weeks ago (just after a power cut on a windy night), so I took it into the PC repair place. Turns out it was fine after they cleaned 2 years worth of fluff out of it...

So, as SuperFudd says - keep it clean!

Paul

 

[Ian_Coleman]

I don't know whether my problem relates to dust, but these posts have made me think!

My computer is 3 years old and a couple of weeks ago I found that after switching off, it was impossible to reboot the computer until about 2 hours had passed. It had 4 Gigs of memory, but it would only re-start if I removed 3 of the 4 memory modules.
It is now running with 2 memory modules, but only with the 2 hour delay after switching off.
PC Specialists (from whom I bought the computer) have told me it is most likely the motherboard. They have not checked it physically, but are going on the information that I have given them.

I am now wondering if it just needs a good clean!

Ian

 

[SuperFudd]

I supose it should be pointed out that there are dangers to cleaning (de-dusting) a computer. Primarily, electro-static damage. If you touch things inside improperly, you can cause damage the computer by electro-static (static electricity) discharge. It is mini lightning. Even a discharge too weak to see, hear or even feel can do damage. It might only weaken a component that will fail later.
How to prevent this? You could get a proper electro-static free work station and training. Probably over kill.
I keep a bare hand on the chasis while poking around inside. Also do not move your feet, or if seated, butt. You might avoid doing this on a dry air day. It would also help to have the computer pluged in, with the power off of coarse. If you remove a board, well, be careful where and how you place it. But then removing a board should not be needed while cleaning. If you must remove the CPU, don't touch the pins. Scared yet?
If using compresed air on a fan, do not allow it to spin because it will likely spin faster than the bearings can handle, damaging them.

 

[Johnk]

Static is definitely a killer. Carpet and leather generate static so a rubber mat under tour feet is a good idea. I held the chassis as SuperFudd suggests. Every time I moved my hand, I would place it on the power supply box first before touching anything with my other hand.

A spinning fan is not a clean fan. Lightly place a finger on the fan to stop it spinning and clean one blade at a time.

 

[SuperFudd]

Great news. I got my 7 year old computer running again, AGAIN!
Now I can put my ten year old computer back in the garage, after updating the video card from a Virge S3 to a GForce 2 and bumping the RAM up from 192 meg to 1G. It uses XP. Nextime my 7 year old Trainz PC dies, I can run trainz on my 10 year old back up PC.

So what killed my 7 year old PC (see below) this time? I mentioned it was getting flakey so I cleaned it. That worked for maybe a week before dieing again. It seems I did not do a complete job of cleaning. I had not removed the 7 year acumulation of dust from the power supply, so I did and all is well, until next time.
Now back to my W.P. / S.P. Stockton to Milpitas route.

 

[UP5521]

Great news. I got my 7 year old computer running again, AGAIN!
Now I can put my ten year old computer back in the garage, after updating the video card from a Virge S3 to a GForce 2 and bumping the RAM up from 192 meg to 1G. It uses XP. Nextime my 7 year old Trainz PC dies, I can run trainz on my 10 year old back up PC.

So what killed my 7 year old PC (see below) this time? I mentioned it was getting flakey so I cleaned it. That worked for maybe a week before dieing again. It seems I did not do a complete job of cleaning. I had not removed the 7 year acumulation of dust from the power supply, so I did and all is well, until next time.
Now back to my W.P. / S.P. Stockton to Milpitas route.

Well,I'm glad to see your back and good luck on finishing the route you started!

 

[SuperFudd]

Well, "again" has happened.
I am still fighting this 7 year old computer. My friend and fellow former employee of MDS, Gary, worked on it again today. I am 99.9% certain we finally found the problem this time. The voltages from the power supply connects to the main board with a plug. So much 5V electricity is used that 5 wires are used to carry it all. They should have used 6, or a better quality plug.
Because of the high current, a little heat is developed at the 5 plug contacts, much like a plug on a vacuum cleaner or electric skillet will get warm during use. With the excess warmth over 7 years of heavy use, the contacts corroded causing a poorer still connection and a voltage drop at the contacts. Intermittently the voltage drops too low and the computer shuts down. I tried cleaning the contacts which helped but I should try it again.
I guess when I worked on the computer before, I wiggled the wires causing a better connection for a day or two.
I supose I should start a new thread about this problem as a warning to other Trainzers.
Meanwhile, back to work (again) on the layout/route.:wave:

 

[Johnk]

Hi SuperFudd. The DC nerds out there probably call the problem Black Wire, where the copper wire eventually cooks and turns black. Unfortunately the problem causes voltage loss, but worse still, it can be over the full length of the wire, not just the tip. New power supplies usually have dual connectors for older pentium cards and the new ones. It still may not be the answer, but it could be worth going to the local junk yard recycle shop and purchasing an old computer for $5 and replacing the power supplys.