I need a DEM created

[jadebullet]

Hello guys.
I have decided to take a break from late fall, and the East Coast for a bit, since it is kinda burning me out, so I have decided to work on something set in summer, and in the Midwest. Model Railroader's several issue article on the Milwaukee Beer line got me inspired for some industrial switching type building, so I have decided to work on a fictional shortline set in Milwaukee, with a line out to Duburque. I was just wondering if someone would be kind enough to create a DEM for me, as it would make my task infinitely easier.

As you can see in the map below, I have the route planned out in Google Earth. I will be following existing rail lines, with two short hops. I will need the entire line DEMed out, as well as all of Duburque and all of Milwaukee.

Thanks in advance, I really appreciate it.

 

[jadebullet]

Hmm, still no takers. I figure that I will bump it once, just to give it a second try, and if not, I will let it die.

 

[devandavis]

The route I'm working on now is about 50 miles corner to corner. The DEM itself is reasonable size, but after exporting the elevation data, the raster overlay, and the route, the size in trainz is around 700mb. Thats with 3 buildings, a water tower, and maybe 10 miles of ground texture along the main line.

I don't want to sound non-helpful, but I think the route you're working on almost requires having your own copy of transdem (or similar software). Here's why I think so:

1) you're likely to spend hundreds of hours on this- ~$22 up front is a puny investment in relation to your time

2) sometimes a project is too big to tackle at once. I did this to myself with model railroads- I was never able to find the project size that I could handle. With this route, you may find that rather than do everything at once, you decide to model one part now, and then add on the next set of DEMs- you could create new/add on to your heart's content with your own copy of transdem.

3) my experience is the DEM is rarely "right" the first time. Not that there's anything wrong with the data, but maybe you didn't get all the spots you wanted at first. Maybe you got too many. Using an abandoned rail overlay I found some old routes that I wanted to include- that meant starting the dem process over.

4) Transdem will let you output "tiles" of imagery that you can use to prototype your route. I used a topo map as my ground cover layover, but I'm also likely to export some aerial photo tiles to get the position of trees/shrubs/streams/fields/fences/etc.

There's probably a technological way to overcome the issue of transmitting a large file, but I think the benefits of being able to go back to the software as needed/desired are, well, beneficial. My 2 cents. dd

 

[Jerker]

G'day jadebullet,

devandavis has espoused all the main reasons why I (the person most likely to respond to your request) have, up to this point, failed to do so. When I first saw the post, I immediately 'tested' the route's validity for creation in TransDEM and having noted that the distance you want to cover is some 250 Kilometres as the crow flies (and probably closer to 300 K 'along the line', without the 'diversions' you seek), I decided to await further developments in the thread, before 'stepping in'. I know, for a fact, that TransDEM cannot handle this kind of distance in a single route (especially if it crosses over more than one SRTM data tile and into adjacent UTM zones - although this is 'muted' to certain extent if one uses the NED 1/3 arcsec data). It must, therefore, be divided into several sections. Once this is established, it becomes very complicated when two people are controlling things. As devandavis has noted, the 'pittance' being asked for a copy of TransDEM beggars me to understand why most people cannot afford to purchase it...

...believe me, you may ask cascaderailroad for any 'advice' on the amount of work that went into creating his 'Pennsylvania' routes that I created for him, for an indication of exactly what is involved...

...both I or devandavis or any other member here with a copy of TransDEM could do this route for you (and is probably willing to do so, if all else fails) but it will be a much better affair if you did it yourself...

Jerker {}

 

[Dermmy]

This is emphatically NOT a shot a Jade, for whom I have considerable respect, rather it is a statement on principle which follows on somewhat from Jerker's post above and is posted here because I have been watching this thread thinking 'Will I or Won't I offer to help' for a couple of days.

In the past I have created 'blank DEM routes' for various folks. Invariably these requested routes are not worked on because the recipient lacks the commitment to complete a large route project. I do not believe that anyone who has not completed a 'large' route - say 100 miles plus - can begin to imagine the level of commitment and discipline it takes to complete such a project.

My standpoint on 'blank DEM' requests is that (with very few exceptions) I no longer do them. Why? Simple...

HOG/MicroDem is free. It is not really all that hard to master. TransDem is cheap-as-chips and is not all that hard to master. Support from Roland for TransDem is so close to instant the difference doesn't matter. I am pretty sure I have never seen a forum request for help in HOG/MicroDem go unanswered.

My logic is this: anyone who lacks the commitment to create their own DEM base using either of the options available is never going to have the commitment to see the route through to completion.

My suggestion to Jade and anyone else looking for the same sort of help is to have a crack at Wewain's HOG tutorial or Roland's TransDem. I guarantee that the community can get you through the learning curve and have a route in your Trainz folder within a very few days...

Andy

 

[jadebullet]

Yeah, you guys have made some very very valid points, and I have decided to, for now, just focus on reskinning and creating my roster, before I get some cash to get TransDEM. I actually didn't know that it was only $22.00. I am used to utility software like that being around $60-$100.

As for the freeware HOG/DEM tutorial. I tried that a while ago, and I epic failed at it. If all else fails, I might try my hand at it again, but I think that I will just wait until I have TransDEM.

Thanks for the support though.

 

[davesnow]

In the past I have created 'blank DEM routes' for various folks. Invariably these requested routes are not worked on because the recipient lacks the commitment to complete a large route project. I do not believe that anyone who has not completed a 'large' route - say 100 miles plus - can begin to imagine the level of commitment and discipline it takes to complete such a project.
Andy

[gulp-- ] I believe I fall into that catagory. Guilty as charged. Andy has created a couple of blank DEM routes for me, and I really appreciate it. But, as he says, they are definitely LARGE. Seems they never look that big on a map--- but when you open Surveyor and start looking at the immensity of a created DEM, it seems overwhelming. Then there's the disipline he refers to... creating a real-life route of a real-life area (as opposed to a fictional route) can be very VERY time-consuming. Depending on how much of a perfectionist you are, it can take months and even years to make everything just as close to real life as possible.

Now I have made probably a couple dozen fictional routes and they are much easier on the brain... no rules to adhere to when it comes to the layout. You can just lay your track, roads, cities, industries however you desire. Piece of cake! But to decide to do an actual route of an actual living railroad is going to take a lot more planning than most of us are willing to tackle. Andy said it all.

Dave

 

[devandavis]

Okay- to clarify my (ambiguous) price claim. 22 should have been listed as Euros, not USD. My USD total was just under $31, which is still a great deal. I'm sorry for any confusion on that.

dd

 

[clam1952]

[gulp-- ] I believe I fall into that catagory. Guilty as charged. Andy has created a couple of blank DEM routes for me, and I really appreciate it. But, as he says, they are definitely LARGE. Seems they never look that big on a map--- but when you open Surveyor and start looking at the immensity of a created DEM, it seems overwhelming. Then there's the disipline he refers to... creating a real-life route of a real-life area (as opposed to a fictional route) can be very VERY time-consuming. Depending on how much of a perfectionist you are, it can take months and even years to make everything just as close to real life as possible.

Now I have made probably a couple dozen fictional routes and they are much easier on the brain... no rules to adhere to when it comes to the layout. You can just lay your track, roads, cities, industries however you desire. Piece of cake! But to decide to do an actual route of an actual living railroad is going to take a lot more planning than most of us are willing to tackle. Andy said it all.

Dave

It definitely takes a lot of time doing a real route, I've spent around 15 months now on a Welsh Narrowgauge line, still go a fair bit of buildings and stuff to make / finish / redo!! and a bit of scenery adjustment, the easiest bit was the DEM, mines only 40 odd miles, so I can appreciate the work needed for a couple of hundred plus!
I used Microdem / Hog for the DEM, didn't know about Transdem then as fairly new to this hobby!
Anyway didn't have any problem with Microdem, apart from Wewains instructions being slightly out of synch with the newer version, I suspect that's maybe where one or two have gone wrong... Flat hilly terrain being one of the problems!

 

[lewisner]

I have spent 4+ months now doing a real life route without DEM and it's coming along OK but would have been far easier with DEM. However I tried to understand SRTM and it was beyond me. Future upgrades to Trainz could maybe make this easier to do?

 

[devandavis]

Evidently Railworks has at least a limited ability to accept SRTM data built into the route builder. The next time Steam has a sale on RW, I may give it a go.

 

[froobie]

Hi,

Just for fun & curiosity I built a blank DEM of North Vancouver Island. It's 70% land and 30% water and about 200x100 baseboards. It took about a month, even though I'm retired, to get a Trainz map file I was happy with. I consider myself fortunate to get a couple of hours a day at Trainz.

To cut to the quick, I estimated about 4 to 6 months to do a decent shoreline and after that, well, I'll leave that to the experienced folks here.

cheers,
--michael.
PS google Cape Scott Provincial Park if you're curious about the area.

 

[davesnow]

Hi,

Just for fun & curiosity I built a blank DEM of North Vancouver Island. It's 70% land and 30% water and about 200x100 baseboards. It took about a month, even though I'm retired, to get a Trainz map file I was happy with. I consider myself fortunate to get a couple of hours a day at Trainz.

To cut to the quick, I estimated about 4 to 6 months to do a decent shoreline and after that, well, I'll leave that to the experienced folks here.

cheers,
--michael.
PS google Cape Scott Provincial Park if you're curious about the area.

Do you ever listen to the railroad radio scanners from the Vancouver area? I listen all the time. It's my favorite area to listen to while I'm playing TRAINZ.

http://www.railroadradio.net/content/view/40/137/

 

[HiBaller]

We spent 3 years on the DHR. From it's inception as a multi-part DEM to the completion was 3 years. The line itself ran only 54 miles and went from 340 feet to over 7400 feet. Truly an undertaking for those of us who did it. I cannot imagine trying to do it myself.

Bill