How to start layout

[madclarinet]

I've been messing around/practicing with Surveyor so I can build an ex UK route and wondering where best to start on it - so I'd thought I'd ask

In a nutshell - the route connects to two other 'networks' at each end and has a 'central' main station. There are a few sidings and some industry workings along the route but nothing too major.

So, would it be best to...

a. Start at one of the ends and work from there. Having a 'simple' start and moving continuing.

or

b. Start at the 'main' station in the middle and working out from there. This option does have a massive amount of work at the start but may be 'better' to start there.

From my research I have more information to start at 'b' but it is the most complicated part of it (lots of of lines at some points, going through a city, main railway workings and industry).

'a' would sound better as it's a 'simple' start.

If I manage to complete the layout it would be continued to the nearby stations. One of these has a scary amount of trackwork and industry etc.

So, suggestions, comments (insults).... anyone.... please....

 

[itareus]

How about starting by laying out the whole route but just in "outline"? Say start with a few blank boards, lay a rough single track on them to indicate the general direction and mileage of the route, add a few more boards and more rough single track and so on. Add some sort of marker (e.g. a "noteline - but anything will do) to indicate where the major features i.e. stations and yards are. Do the whole route like this but check it from time to time, if anything if wrong with this rough draft, say for example you have gone south when you should have gone north or have got some mileages wrong. then it easier to change at this stage than when you have a whole load of track and scenery.

If you get bored of laying out single track on blank baseboards then you could always start doing some terrain forming or even start properly working up parts of the route that you have already done in outline and checked.

Once all of the "outline" is done then you can work on detailing whatever part of the route takes your fancy (or even several bits at once) knowing it fits into the overall scheme of things.

The main thing is that, whichever way you tackle the job, you enjoy doing it !!

Just curious but which "ex UK route" are you thinking of doing?

Cheers

 

[madclarinet]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm going to use/using TranzDEM for the major parts of the terrain - the draft line sounds an excellent suggestion. Not thought of doing that (although I used drafts/similar things for other non-trainz related stuff).

Curiosity answered - I'm going to tackle the GNR Friargate line. Basically the 'other' Derby station. Starting at Eggington junction (hopefully all the way to Burton eventually) and then up to Ilkeston and maybe beyond to Nottingham (maybe).

If I manage to make the route work I may add in the Midland railway line from the same period, but we'll see - depends on if I can do a decent job on this one.

 

[drgwman]

I'm doing the same thing.. I'm doin the Front Range Sub in Colorado.. from Denver North Yard to Longmont, CO.. and maybe the Moffat. FRS is roughly about 47ish miles of route. I started out with a section in North Yard.. just to get that set. Mainly I started where the Belt Flyover is. My reference for the trackplan is googleMaps, which isn't to bad on gettin close to see if there's any switches or not. But I'm always checking it. I've set up my other laptop with the map so I can easily look at it. It does get boring with just laying track, but I switch from that to doing some scenery. I mark all the major roads an landmarks near the route so I can just look back at the map when I get to that stage an know where it's at. But.. I say whatever you feel comfortable doing really. This is the second time of actually messing with Surveyor. But good Luck!

 

[itareus]

...I'm going to use/using TranzDEM for the major parts of the terrain....

Sounds good and should make life a lot easier for you. I keep thinking about getting Transdem - there is one particular bit of the UK covering the Leeds/Bradford area that I would really like to get an accurate DEM for, but then I think "I don't have time enough to do what I already want to do!". Maybe one day .

....I'm going to tackle the GNR Friargate line....

Interesting - and there does seem to be a reasonable amount of info about this line on the net. I have access to a (private and historical) railway infrastructure database which covers the country some parts being in detail down to the exact location of culverts and the like. Unfortunately the Friargate line has only been done in outline so I can't be of much help there.

Anyway, good luck with the route, should keep you busy for a year or three, look forward to seeing it on the DLS sometime.

Regards

Chris

 

[JCitron]

That initial start of a route project can be a bit daunting at first.

When I start a new route, or as I continue to work on my personal mega-route, I've established a purpose for the railroad to exist. This helps to set the theme, countryside, the period, and a host of other little details that will make the route come alive. For my personal route, I've established a rather long story about its reason to be, and where it is today in the scope of things. Now keeping this in mind, you might want to consider doing some research on the area that you plan on modeling. I use a lot of online mapping sources, and yes TransDEM is an awesome tool for this. The mapping and research, though is only a tiny part of the whole project. Laying track, signaling, and landscaping go along with this too. What you don't want is to end up stuck, bored, and very frustrated because you've focused on only the track laying, for example.

Now before you really dive in, you might want to open up a route from one of the longtime "experts". There are a host of excellent builders out there. Deremy (Andy) with his CheckRail.com website and his East Kentucky. This maybe an American route, but this is just an example. Angela (Angelah) has made some nice UK routes. Take a look at how she constructed it. Try adding on something to one of her routes, and see if you can blend your section in. I did this with some routes by George Fisher. It happens to be that he lives not too far from me, and the area I was modeling was very similar to something he built already. I also included his route into mine, but with my blending, you'd never know that I borrowed his work.

Now speaking of building. You might want to start small. Keep your theme in mind, but start somewhere and build out from there. As I said before, you don't want to become overpowered and bored with the drudgery. I find that I can easily handle 6 or 8 baseboards at a time when constructing. This is enough "meat" to give the route substance, and with this hunk, I lay my track, get down low with CTRL+Y to view the landscape, add textures, buildings, etc., then move on to the next baseboard.

Once you build a few baseboards, give that section of your route a try. Think of this as an inaugural run. This will give you a chance to see what you've been building, make note of any stupid things like floating buildings, trees, things on the track, etc., or even look about and see things you can add to the scene. The added benefit of this quick run down the tracks gives you a chance to also enjoy your hard work that you put in to building your route.

The key thing to remember is this is going to be a long haul project, so don't expect your route to be completed in a few days. Enjoy the time spent building, and don't get frustrated. If frustration steps in, take a break from the project.

John

 

[madclarinet]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'll elaborate a bit on what I've done so far. I know that the route will take me a damn long time to get up and running. Currently I'm on the 'research' phase. So far this has lasted 6 months or more.

I have been looking at other people's routes and getting pointers (reading the forums and messing around with Surveyor). Hopefully my research will bring up more info as I go along. When I'm back in Derby visiting my family (originally from there) I'll be making a visit or three to the local studies library too. Thankfully I can also get some old maps of which so far look especially useful.

I think the hardest part will be sorting out what to run on the line - due to what the line was used for. I'll probably add a couple of extra industries to complement the layout until I can make it 'full' (say 4 or 5 years if I'm lucky ;-) ).

Hopefully my wife won't kill me too much.........

 

[JCitron]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'll elaborate a bit on what I've done so far. I know that the route will take me a damn long time to get up and running. Currently I'm on the 'research' phase. So far this has lasted 6 months or more.

I have been looking at other people's routes and getting pointers (reading the forums and messing around with Surveyor). Hopefully my research will bring up more info as I go along. When I'm back in Derby visiting my family (originally from there) I'll be making a visit or three to the local studies library too. Thankfully I can also get some old maps of which so far look especially useful.

I think the hardest part will be sorting out what to run on the line - due to what the line was used for. I'll probably add a couple of extra industries to complement the layout until I can make it 'full' (say 4 or 5 years if I'm lucky ;-) ).

Hopefully my wife won't kill me too much.........

This sounds like an awesome project. Are you working on the Midland or the LNR?

I've been through there on the train from Euston to Liverpool about 30 years ago. I remember seeing the old bridge across the tracks at Derby Jct.

My fictional route, based loosely on the Boston and Maine and connections, was started back in late 2003, early 2004 when I purchased TRS2004 from BestBuy. It started as a model railroad before that, and became a virtual route. A couple of variations happened virtually, but the core is still there. I've recently started replacing older sections, and you'll end up doing the same I'm sure, as your techniques become more refined, and the assets and Trainz versions improve.

By the sound of it, you've started in the right direction, which is a good thing. Just remember to take a break when things get haywire. This is a hobby, I mean a way of life. Wives and girlfriends, family, and others have no clue what will happen as you get more into this project.

John

 

[madclarinet]

GNR - after the grouping it was part of LNER (which basically sealed it's fate as control was handed to it's 'rivals')

Not much left of it now but you can spot the basic route on Google maps.

Your project sounds fun. As with a lot of things - you never really finish it

I do a lot of programming - the same basic principles apply in getting setup of it. Trust me - I won't get too annoyed, I know when to walk away for a bit (another IT trait that is useful, if it isn't working and you can't see why....)

 

[danny5]

Back in the old forum builders would talk of putting all the buildings on a blank board(s)and choose the building they liked,after they got all they thought they needed they would merage these board(s) with the route they were going to build. With a quick flyover they would choose a building that fit the location.They would do the same for track to get a look at what track might look better for spur ect,ect.
Then when (if every) your done with the route just delete the boards.
Seeing them is better then putting on your route then removing them because the don't look right.
Hope this might help.

 

[leeferr]

Starting a new route can be a daunting task, but finishing one is almos an impossibility. At some point, you have to accept the fact that it's good enough to suit YOU.

I'm assuming that you're talking about a freelance route. If so, I always find it helpful to start with a rough sketch of the route on a piece of paper so that you can initially plan what industries your railroad is servicing. Without industries, your road has no purpose for existing. You can always fill in the blanks as you go along, but you should start with a concept of what you are trying to accomplish. What era are you trying to model is also essential.

The most important thing to remember is this. Have fun. It's your empire.

Mike

 

[JCitron]

GNR - after the grouping it was part of LNER (which basically sealed it's fate as control was handed to it's 'rivals')

Not much left of it now but you can spot the basic route on Google maps.

Your project sounds fun. As with a lot of things - you never really finish it

I do a lot of programming - the same basic principles apply in getting setup of it. Trust me - I won't get too annoyed, I know when to walk away for a bit (another IT trait that is useful, if it isn't working and you can't see why....)

I fully understand the walking away principle. I too work in IT, and have for many years. I'm now at Oracle America supporting over 600 users. They keep me walking, alright!

The project is a lot of fun, especially now that I've really got something to drive. The run is about an hour in nearly every direction out from the current end of the line. When I get tired of building, I'll set up a session and let the AI do some driving while I fiddle around some industries. It's pretty cool to see the long haul freight come along with the commuter trains in between while you're switching industries. Periodically I'll take over an AI train so I can bring it into the yard and swap out the locomotives. Then later I'm back to placing trees, telephone poles and buildings.

Like programming, this can be very addicting as you fiddle through and tweak different things. Mike is spot on right about this. It's nearly as impossible to finish up the project as it is to keep poking at it.

John

 

[glbotu]

Don't do what I do

So as solid advice as what not to do if you ever want to release your route, I would strongly advise against getting carried away with trackwork, which is something I do to an exceptionally ridiculous extent (hence why I never release anything). I tend to frequently come up with trackwork ideas and decide to add them to a route or build a completely new route from them, which has resulted in currently 8 simultaneous projects, all with huge networks, which will almost certainly never be completed. The reason that Princethorpe - Glenister got released was because the limitations of TRS2004 and my previous computer (actually 2 computers ago), forced me to stop building at Glenister. If I'd had my way, I'd have extended it further both East and West and it would never have been released.

 

[pcas1986]

Starting a new route can be a daunting task, but finishing one is almos an impossibility. ...

Yep! I've been building the one route since TS2006. It's a fictional route and I'm always adding new stuff to it. I've toyed with the idea of releasing it but I'm sure someone will complain that I'm mixing BR stock with Euro or even US bits! I know its got NZ and Aussie pubs in there. Very cosmopolitan.

It's based on a touristy island with mainline access, local traffic and a mountain top tourist resort with zig zag railway access. I have an AI session that demonstrates much of it. The only problem is that sometimes after a few hours running, one or more of the AI trains will get gridlocked.

The most important thing to remember is this. Have fun. It's your empire.

Mike

Absolutely

PaulC

 

[davidbird]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm going to use/using TranzDEM for the major parts of the terrain - the draft line sounds an excellent suggestion. Not thought of doing that (although I used drafts/similar things for other non-trainz related stuff).

Curiosity answered - I'm going to tackle the GNR Friargate line. Basically the 'other' Derby station. Starting at Eggington junction (hopefully all the way to Burton eventually) and then up to Ilkeston and maybe beyond to Nottingham (maybe).

If I manage to make the route work I may add in the Midland railway line from the same period, but we'll see - depends on if I can do a decent job on this one.

If you've read my thread here http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=460&highlight=nottingham then you'll know I've got a series around Nottingham. Although there's not much progress for a while due to job changes, it's still "live". I've got the DEM terrain for the Erewash Valley, can easily extend that through Ilkeston if you're interested.