Help with which Trainz to get

joshmeister

Proud Railfurz Member
I want to get Trainz2012 but, I'm not sure If I can run Trainz 2004, 2006 etc stuff in trainz2012. I mostly want to do Narrow Gauging stuff but most of the stuff is 2004 and 2006 stuff though theres some newer stuff as well that I like, What should I do? Would this stuff work In Trainz 2012?

-Josh
 
Hello Josh.

As TS12 has Multiplayer, it does not have Compatibility mode. This means that older content will require a lot of fixing to work.

I recommend TS2010 as it has compatibility mode, which allows older content to run with errors, and seems to be able to run on lower specs than TS12.

I have both on the same computer. TS2010 can run with all the detail sliders maxed out. TS12 requires the settings to be lower in order to get reasonable performance out of it.

Hope this helps.

Kieran.
 
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Alright, Error's, what kind of errors are we talking about?
Errors with the older content, as in red exclaimation marks in Content Manager.

Anything with errors in TS12 will not run until the errors are fixed. Compatibility mode means you don't have to fix them to use the content.
 
Oh, I see. Would I still be able to load and unload things' refuel and things like that with older content in TRS2010? ( Havent done this since late 2008)
 
Oh, I see. Would I still be able to load and unload things' refuel and things like that with older content in TRS2010? ( Havent done this since late 2008)

Yes, the industry enabled buildings and wagons still work in 2010, even with older, and faulty, conent.
 
Great, now then last two questions, 1, what version of trs2010 should I get? Im wanting to build a route and run trains ( Shows how long I've been away.) 2, who would I talk to about shape editing for trains? ( I.E something like Prowlers steam engines but with Oil tenders.)
 
Great, now then last two questions, 1, what version of trs2010 should I get? Im wanting to build a route and run trains ( Shows how long I've been away.) 2, who would I talk to about shape editing for trains? ( I.E something like Prowlers steam engines but with Oil tenders.)

1. There's only one version - TS2010: Engineer's Edition. There is no non-Engineer's Edition TS2010. Make sure that you apply the latest patch, which is 49933 for the non-Multiplayer version, and 49938 for the Multiplayer version. If you're confused, TS2010 had a Multiplayer beta before TS12 was released. When you get to build 44088, that's when you need to decide whethe you want Multiplayer or not. I recommend you take the non-Multiplayer option.

2. Try asking in the Content Creation section. However, you can't edit the mesh files for Trainz unless you have the original modelling program files. Blender and GMax/3DS MAX are used to create content, if you want to have a go at making something. Start wth a building or other simple scenery item.
 
Now, I'm not attempting to change your mind here, but there are caveat to running in compatibility mode in TS2010. This is actually a transition product to what we have today in TS12 and upward. Compatibility mode is nothing more than a band-aide to be able to get older content to load into the program without repairing the items. This sounds well and good, but the problem will be performance for one. What TRS2010 is doing is muscling past the errors in the content. These errors were always there, just as they were in previous versions. (More about this afterwards). This extra work comes at a price, causing stutters and disappearing content from the route in Driver, among other issues. Alpha-blended objects no longer render well, including splines. Even in compatibility mode, they look weird due to the rendering engine changes.

The reason for the so-called errors in the newer versions of Trainz has to do with better error reporting and handling. The earlier versions of Trainz did not have this capability, so errors would sneak by the program and the content would "work". It would work well enough that no one really cared even though there were performance issues, crashes and stutters. Auran didn't help matters by producing original content with errors. These errors were propagated by other content creators that used those models as a basis for their own creations. Sadly too as the product matured, the CCGs did not keep up with the content and which tags, scripts, etc. had changed. This added more errors to the mess, causing more crashes and stability issues. And to make matters worse, content creators were making their own tags, not even related to the CCG and put those in as well, but since the errors were unreported and unchecked, the program muscled along. The plows came out and pushed along like nothing was wrong.

Eventually the developers got some smarts and put the brakes on this. Today's versions of Trainz, starting really with TRS2006 and even Classics, the program's code has become more strict. Instead of unknown tags, poorly created config files, typographic errors, missing textures, etc. being ignored, they are now getting flagged with errors in Content Manager. With the errors reported, it's a lot easier now to know what items need fixing, and which ones do not. In many cases the errors are easily repaired. For the most part they are nothing more than typographic errors in the config.txt files. Missing textures are easily repaired as well, unless of course they're are an important one such as a window or something. In many cases I've actually cloned textures from similar objects and repurposed them. Other content requires shadow meshes, or other minor fixes. In the course of 3 months, I repaired 1,000s of items in my local directory. A lot of this extra work is no longer necessary because many people have updated older content up on the DLS as part of N3V's content clean-up initiative. This large group of volunteers cleaned up many 10s of 1000s of items, making them once again available for future generations of Trainz users.

So what tools do we use to clean-up the content?

PEVSoft's Trainz Utilities for one are a must.

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~villaump/pevsoft.htm

Peter V has done a commendable job creating these very, very helpful tools for repairing the content.

You also need an image editor. There's Gimp, Paint.net, PaintShop Pro, and even Photoshop for this.

A good text editor. Notepad does an excellent job.

Optionally, a search and replace utility. I use Text_crawler for this one.
Why a search and replace tool, you wonder. When there are 100's of items created by the same creator that all have the same error in a config.txt file in the same place, it's easy to replace that line with a space and delete that one line. This also works for Kuid replacement, or adding in other groups of text in exactly the same spot in a ton of config files.

And finally, there is the forums here. We'll all generously help you repair your content.

So why wouldn't you want to fix the content and use TS12 instead and be done with it?

If you were to repair your content, which you'd find to be a pretty easy process, by the way, the performance will be a ton better, contrary to what Mr. Captain is saying. TS12 renders far much better. The lighting is better, the performance is better, and the AI are "smarter". There are some glitches still but like any version of Trainz, you weather them through until the next patch comes along.

Something to think about if you're upgrading. To be honest I did the old compatibility mode on TS2010 for quite some time. Then one day I broke open the tool chest and the difference in the game's performance was like night and day. There is no longer any interpreting and ignoring errors, muscling through as I said before, in order to run the simulation. The content just loads quickly and everything plays like it should.

John
 
Now, I'm not attempting to change your mind here, but there are caveat to running in compatibility mode in TS2010. This is actually a transition product to what we have today in TS12 and upward. Compatibility mode is nothing more than a band-aide to be able to get older content to load into the program without repairing the items. This sounds well and good, but the problem will be performance for one. What TRS2010 is doing is muscling past the errors in the content. These errors were always there, just as they were in previous versions. (More about this afterwards). This extra work comes at a price, causing stutters and disappearing content from the route in Driver, among other issues. Alpha-blended objects no longer render well, including splines. Even in compatibility mode, they look weird due to the rendering engine changes.

The reason for the so-called errors in the newer versions of Trainz has to do with better error reporting and handling. The earlier versions of Trainz did not have this capability, so errors would sneak by the program and the content would "work". It would work well enough that no one really cared even though there were performance issues, crashes and stutters. Auran didn't help matters by producing original content with errors. These errors were propagated by other content creators that used those models as a basis for their own creations. Sadly too as the product matured, the CCGs did not keep up with the content and which tags, scripts, etc. had changed. This added more errors to the mess, causing more crashes and stability issues. And to make matters worse, content creators were making their own tags, not even related to the CCG and put those in as well, but since the errors were unreported and unchecked, the program muscled along. The plows came out and pushed along like nothing was wrong.

Eventually the developers got some smarts and put the brakes on this. Today's versions of Trainz, starting really with TRS2006 and even Classics, the program's code has become more strict. Instead of unknown tags, poorly created config files, typographic errors, missing textures, etc. being ignored, they are now getting flagged with errors in Content Manager. With the errors reported, it's a lot easier now to know what items need fixing, and which ones do not. In many cases the errors are easily repaired. For the most part they are nothing more than typographic errors in the config.txt files. Missing textures are easily repaired as well, unless of course they're are an important one such as a window or something. In many cases I've actually cloned textures from similar objects and repurposed them. Other content requires shadow meshes, or other minor fixes. In the course of 3 months, I repaired 1,000s of items in my local directory. A lot of this extra work is no longer necessary because many people have updated older content up on the DLS as part of N3V's content clean-up initiative. This large group of volunteers cleaned up many 10s of 1000s of items, making them once again available for future generations of Trainz users.

So what tools do we use to clean-up the content?

PEVSoft's Trainz Utilities for one are a must.

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~villaump/pevsoft.htm

Peter V has done a commendable job creating these very, very helpful tools for repairing the content.

You also need an image editor. There's Gimp, Paint.net, PaintShop Pro, and even Photoshop for this.

A good text editor. Notepad does an excellent job.

Optionally, a search and replace utility. I use Text_crawler for this one.
Why a search and replace tool, you wonder. When there are 100's of items created by the same creator that all have the same error in a config.txt file in the same place, it's easy to replace that line with a space and delete that one line. This also works for Kuid replacement, or adding in other groups of text in exactly the same spot in a ton of config files.

And finally, there is the forums here. We'll all generously help you repair your content.

So why wouldn't you want to fix the content and use TS12 instead and be done with it?

If you were to repair your content, which you'd find to be a pretty easy process, by the way, the performance will be a ton better, contrary to what Mr. Captain is saying. TS12 renders far much better. The lighting is better, the performance is better, and the AI are "smarter". There are some glitches still but like any version of Trainz, you weather them through until the next patch comes along.

Something to think about if you're upgrading. To be honest I did the old compatibility mode on TS2010 for quite some time. Then one day I broke open the tool chest and the difference in the game's performance was like night and day. There is no longer any interpreting and ignoring errors, muscling through as I said before, in order to run the simulation. The content just loads quickly and everything plays like it should.

John

Never could figure out why some folks cling to old program versions or old OS's, because of backwards compatibility. A few years in the digital world is like a decade or two. Give me the latest and greatest, and even at that, it too will probably be obsolete in a couple of years.
 
Do I need to be good at editing stuff in order to do this? I know nothing about editing anything for this game.

Josh,

You don't need to be really 'smart' or good at editing for this. It's really easy to fix the content if you need to. An error, for example is will say something like this. "Tag 'organsination' is invalid". The word is spelled wrong, so you need to go in and open up the config.txt file (the details will be provided when we get there. :) ), and change organsination to organisation to make the asset work.

John
 
Sounds easy enough,I might think about ordering TRS12 then, though shipping to hawaii I know is gonna be a pain XD. Plus I'm sure if I have questions there's people here that could help.
 
If you order the boxed version from NV3, it comes from Australia. Shipping time for me in the eastern US was approximately 10 days. I would think shipping time to Hawaii would be considerably less.
 
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