Great use of Google Earth

[Approach_Medium]

Hi;
I am building a layout that will start around Newark NJ and go in all directions from there. How far I eventually get will depend on how long this project holds my interest, and how long I live <vbg>. It will of course never really be completed.

It is such a mammoth project to take existing trackage and draw it in Trainz Surveyor.
It would have been impossible for me to get an accurate map of the area, had it not been for Google Earth. Using Google Earth, I am able to get exact coordinates and transfer them to my scale model in Trainz using the Origin and placing Trig stations where I want to mark my tracks.

I am modeling some areas that no man would ever want to set foot. We call these places the 'bowels of New Jersey'. It is not safe to venture there, even during the day. You would most likely be attacked by gangs or dogs.
I sometimes feel for the railroad people who have to work in this area, but I guess they're as tough as the ones who may threaten them.

So, using Google Earth, I get a bird's eye (or satellite, plane, whatever method was used to take the photos) right from the safety and comfort of my home.

I once did drive down to Jersey City to have a look at the old Conrail/Penn Central CP Nave interlocking. It's interesting with all the looping elevated tracks.
Even then, I think I was pretty dumb to go there, but luckily I made it out OK.

This is a very time consuming, but interesting project. I am wondering how many others use Google Earth to draw accurate maps in Surveyor.
Several years ago I found a way to import topo from USGS to Surveyor, but I gave up on that because it wasn't all that good.
I will eventually build the terrain with info from Google Earth, and Garmin topo maps I have on CD.

The great thing will be to drive the trainz through these areas. Maybe I can even include some gangs trying to rob or derail the trainz <g>.

FW

 

[Mick_Berg]

I started out using Google Earth the way you have.
Here's some observations - Lat-Long Marker, the alternative Trig Point marker, is much easier to use, as it's easy to read the lat-long values. I have found that pictures are clearer in Live Earth than Google Earth. In Google Earth, elevation info seems to be very inaccurate. I have started using TranzDem, it's rather difficult but worth the effort. Good elevation data makes a lot of difference.
Mick Berg.

 

[geophil]

As long as no DEM is involved you may obtain reasonable results. But please keep in mind that using lat/long coordinates in Surveyor, based on the World Origin object, will lead to distortion. When a DEM becomes involved you may find it very difficult to align DEM-based terrain with lat/long readings in Surveyor.

The reason for this is simple: Trainz uses a flat terrain model based on Cartesian coordinates. The real word, however, has a curved surface. There are many ways to get from the curved surface to the Cartesan system. It's called a "map-projection". DEMs are often projected with the Transverse Mercator formula. We don't know what formula is used for the Surveyor lat/long feature. It seems to be simplified and it's not Transverse Mercator.

geophil

 

[nbrettoner]

Hi fwassner,

Without GE (Google Earth) I would not have been able to do what I achieved in my section of the DHR Project.
I took screen grabs of GE areas that had a horizontal & vertical 'boundary' line; delineating a 1 km square area, & built up a series of these covering an area I wanted to work on.
Then using IrfanView (great little program) I made exact 1km square areas I overlaid these images onto several tiles. Then using the tile system (available from the DLS) I placed these beneath ground level, & selected the 'see-through' effect in Surveyor (turn off ground texturing).
Then I could accurately place/texture/orientate or select a suitable item for the whole area, based on whatever you could see with GE.
By alternately switching the ground texture on/off, I could see how things were working out.
GE can be a great archaeological aid, when trying to locate old disused routes, & 'now-gone' old buildings etc.
I've even used it effectively to contour an area, by doing a grid 'spot-elevation' over that area, using GE's elevation data. But don't put too much trust near rivers etc. You can get false readings.

 

[Approach_Medium]

Hi fwassner,

Without GE (Google Earth) I would not have been able to do what I achieved in my section of the DHR Project.
I took screen grabs of GE areas that had a horizontal & vertical 'boundary' line; delineating a 1 km square area, & built up a series of these covering an area I wanted to work on.
Then using IrfanView (great little program) I made exact 1km square areas I overlaid these images onto several tiles. Then using the tile system (available from the DLS) I placed these beneath ground level, & selected the 'see-through' effect in Surveyor (turn off ground texturing).
Then I could accurately place/texture/orientate or select a suitable item for the whole area, based on whatever you could see with GE.
By alternately switching the ground texture on/off, I could see how things were working out.
GE can be a great archaeological aid, when trying to locate old disused routes, & 'now-gone' old buildings etc.
I've even used it effectively to contour an area, by doing a grid 'spot-elevation' over that area, using GE's elevation data. But don't put too much trust near rivers etc. You can get false readings.

I was wondering whether there might be a way to do exactly that. It would be much easier to lay the track if I have a real image of the area I am working on.
I have been taking screen shots from GE and using them for reference while laying track in Surveyor, but it is very time consuming.

I'll take a look at the programs you mentioned.
Thanks

FW

 

[Approach_Medium]

I started out using Google Earth the way you have.
Here's some observations - Lat-Long Marker, the alternative Trig Point marker, is much easier to use, as it's easy to read the lat-long values. I have found that pictures are clearer in Live Earth than Google Earth. In Google Earth, elevation info seems to be very inaccurate. I have started using TranzDem, it's rather difficult but worth the effort. Good elevation data makes a lot of difference.
Mick Berg.

Is Lat-Lon marker a built-in asset in TRS2006? I've never come across it.

As far as using Dems, I don't think I am going to. I had tried it several times a few years back, but didn't like the results. I enjoy building terrain myself, finding it very relaxing.
My layout doesn't have to be an exact replica of the real thing anyway. I just wanted to get all the rail lines in (including lots of abandoned ones).

FW

 

[Approach_Medium]

I started out using Google Earth the way you have.
Here's some observations - Lat-Long Marker, the alternative Trig Point marker, is much easier to use, as it's easy to read the lat-long values. I have found that pictures are clearer in Live Earth than Google Earth. In Google Earth, elevation info seems to be very inaccurate. I have started using TranzDem, it's rather difficult but worth the effort. Good elevation data makes a lot of difference.
Mick Berg.

Yes; Live Earth is clearer than Google Earth, but can I get Lat-Long info from it?

FW

 

[JimDep]

Two useful tools that go well with Google Earth are:
1) Protractor - I use the one that was (is?) a free download on
the internet called "MB ruler".

Use this for overlaying on top of the Google Earth image for measuring
the track/road/ terrain angles, etc.

2) Protractor - DSL download. Use this in Surveyor. Transfer the angles from
the MB ruler to your surveyor protractor to duplicate all your
angles. Transferring the accurate angle measurements from
Google to your surveyor is critical when doing large
prototypical routes.

I hope you can get out to the "hard to get to track" and shoot some video and/or take some pictures. When you combine ground pictures with satellite, you have a lot of good material to work with.
Have fun, good luck and stick with it!

JD

 

[Approach_Medium]

Two useful tools that go well with Google Earth are:
1) Protractor - I use the one that was (is?) a free download on
the internet called "MB ruler".

Use this for overlaying on top of the Google Earth image for measuring
the track/road/ terrain angles, etc.

2) Protractor - DSL download. Use this in Surveyor. Transfer the angles from
the MB ruler to your surveyor protractor to duplicate all your
angles. Transferring the accurate angle measurements from
Google to your surveyor is critical when doing large
prototypical routes.

I hope you can get out to the "hard to get to track" and shoot some video and/or take some pictures. When you combine ground pictures with satellite, you have a lot of good material to work with.
Have fun, good luck and stick with it!

JD

Thanks for all the help!
Unfortunately, in the areas that have the most intricate track/interlockings, I cannot venture. I would need an armed escort to go safely, and that's not a joke. The area around the old Jersey City (not the new waterfront) is very bad.
It is possible that I could take a PATH train from Hoboken to Newark Penn Station and have a good look at the Marion & HACK areas, but PATH probably has restrictions on taking photos from it's trains, as this could come under the Homeland Security act.

Actually, between Google Earth and Live Earth, I am getting lots of good photos that will help me. I'm not going to get too anal about getting everything exactly correct.
I know how some guys can be on this though. If it's not going to be an exact model, then it's not prototypical. I can at least set up the 'rough draft' in Trainz, then refine it over the years.

FW

 

[Approach_Medium]

Then using IrfanView (great little program) I made exact 1km square areas I overlaid these images onto several tiles

What exactly can IrfanView do to assist in getting the photos into TrS?
Do you just resize the image so it is the correct size for Trainz?
How do I figure out what size (in pixels) to make the image for the TRS baseboard?
Then I assume I need another app to get the images into Trainz Surveyor?

Please bear with me here. I'm new to this stuff. I have been doing things by hand until now!

FW

 

[vulcan]

Hi Guys,

Last week I did a tutorial on using Google Earth for Trainz for the local Trainz group. I had been experimenting with the geometry of the Brisbane river for my bridges and City Cat routes. I make a tile exactly one baseboard size, for placement in Trainz

The tutorial is along the lines mentioned in this post, you might find the draft useful:

http://ianztrainz.com/images/UsingGoogleEarth.zip

Ian

 

[OldEric]

Hello Ian... just a few words of thanks for the Google Earth tutorial. I will be putting it to good use in a few weeks time to build the Docks of Barrow-in-Furness in the UK.

An interesting set of docks where many of the Conference Lines ships were built and repaired, which served Australasia in the past. Plus today where much of nuclear UK submarine building takes place and normal ship repairs, too. Will just fit in nicely into 3x3 kms area.

Eric

 

[Willem2]

As Ian(Vulcan) said, I am using his method at the moment in conjunction with a DEM map and it is a great help with placing track as well as roads and buildings and even textures.

overlay map down

overlay map raised

Makes live so much easier.

Cheers,

Bill.

 

[nbrettoner]

Hi Guys,

Last week I did a tutorial on using Google Earth for Trainz for the local Trainz group. I had been experimenting with the geometry of the Brisbane river for my bridges and City Cat routes. I make a tile exactly one baseboard size, for placement in Trainz

The tutorial is along the lines mentioned in this post, you might find the draft useful:

http://www.ianztrainz.com.au/Trainz Using Google Earth.zip

Ian

Hi Ian,

After 4 months of not having my own PC (& not being able to do anything in three major Trainz projects etc),
I'm really looking forward to finally receiving delivery later this week.
As soon as my PC is sorted, your tutorial will be one of the first downloads.

I moved back 'home' to Australia mid January from New Zealand, where I'd been the last 20 years.
Why so long with delivery of my NZ stuff?. Long frustrating story.
Try living out of an overnight bag's worth of clothes etc for 4 months.
Not funny.

If it wasn't for the kindly generosity of a fellow Trainzer, I couldn't be typing this post!.

But I really am looking forward to getting back into all sorts of PC activities with my own PC.

 

[vulcan]

Hi Eric, Noel,

I hope you find something useful there, always a number of ways to do things. Bill had tried the technique and found it useful as he says.

We were off the air for a week recently changing to ADSL2, then you realise how much you use the Internet, when you cannot access it.

Ian

 

[nbrettoner]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for that. Looking forward to seeing what you came up with regarding GE usage in Trainz.

Sorry to read of your week's 'downtime' with the changeover.

:wave:

 

[Approach_Medium]

As Ian(Vulcan) said, I am using his method at the moment in conjunction with a DEM map and it is a great help with placing track as well as roads and buildings and even textures.

I'm not sure how you get the Google Earth (or MS Live Earth) photos onto your baseboard.
Do you use the same DEM program that does the elevations?
I haven't done any of this for several years, so whatever I learned back then is in some dark, untraveled part of my brain. I don't think it'll take much to get me to remember it though; I'll start by downloading TrainzDem and play with it for a while.

FW

 

[Approach_Medium]

TransDem Trainz edition

I think I will order TransDem Trainz edition. It seems like a much easier way to go.
I am going to assume that the maps needed by TransDem are not going to cost me any additional $$.

FW

 

[Willem2]

Hi FW,

The maps are made in to a texture as per Vulcans tutorial, than in Gmax a plane is created and the texture placed on it, from there it is exported in to Trainz. It is not necessary to use DEM data(Transdem is a good program) for this process the map can also be used on a flat base board.

The link to Vulcans tutorial ;

http://www.ianztrainz.com.au/Trainz Using Google Earth.zip

Hope this helps,

Bill.

 

[Tokkyu40]

Or you could just use the existing 1km basemaps.

http://www.g0akh.f2s.com/Trainz/Basemap_tutorial.html

These are incredibly handy if you don't have DEM data.

Claude