Good Urban Routes?
- Thread starter chomz147
- Start date
I'm working on one in Philadelphia, though it's not ready yet.
Robert3a0 just released a decent coastal one, that's pretty urban-ish. I think it's called NCTD Oceanside or something like that. It just posted to the DLS within the last few days. Some screenies are in the thread, below:
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...ide-San-Diego-Phase-1-Amtrak-Coaster-Sprinter
Robert3a0 just released a decent coastal one, that's pretty urban-ish. I think it's called NCTD Oceanside or something like that. It just posted to the DLS within the last few days. Some screenies are in the thread, below:
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...ide-San-Diego-Phase-1-Amtrak-Coaster-Sprinter
Phil's are more for operational challenges then anything approaching "Prototype". I very much enjoy Phil's work, but IMHO few of his things, as delivered, would ever make someone think of the city they were born, raised, or went to school in..... His scenary is more about functionality to the Operations, even if its just as a backdrop, then anything else. Its great stuff, but don't confuse it for a modern large city. That said, if you haven't checked it out, please do so, and maybe you'll find its to your liking.
NCTD Oceanside by Robert3a0 (I think its being collaborated with "Brendansbiz", but not sure) is a small part of what I think is going to end up being the majority of the Surfliner Route from southern-Mid-California. Theres really not much "Urban" in what was released either. More "Sub-Urban", and if you've ever seen or ridden that route, theres loads of houses and sandy beaches, and even agriculture. Most of the Urban would be around like LA and San-Diego and those weren't included with whats been released. Further, as I understand it its a WIP still as well. Though what's been done so far is mostly well done, and I really haven't seen many routes like it (Though one must point out that I can think of no other routes that are anything like the Surfliner with the possible exceptions of the NEC and parts of FEC's divisions, someones already made adjustments to NCTD Oceanside to replicate the FEC in Southern Florida, though I think the Ocean is on the wrong side, as it were....).
As long as you're ok with a more sub-urban feel though, you could also try Dericm's(Sp) Michigan Train Routes routes (Sounds funny huh?). He models big chunks of old Grand Trunk Western Sub-Divisions at a time. I don't think he's gotten quite into any of the big cities yet, but I know he has a bigger map he released awhile ago that has tons of sub-urban, approaching Urban (Think large town-ish) areas.
The B&O/WM Megaroute has some Urban-*ISH* areas in it, but those are not the highlight of that route. The detail level in the city(s?) is rather low, and since they tend to be on the end(s) it just feels like the cities didn't have alot of time spent on them. In places the track work isn't even all laid out or joined up together much less ready for screenshots....
Kinda Depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking for the PRR in NYC/Chicago, we ain't got it. Though we do have tons of Sub-Surface Urban routes, just look for the Tram/Subway folks, they're around. We have some "Urban-*ish*" small routes hanging around, switching challenges and the like, (Look into, I think its called Emily Harbor? Emily Bay? Port Emily? I don't remember, Emily something, though its along similar lines to Phil's work).
The problem with Urban Routes in this sim are 2 fold. The first part is a lack of talented route creators with the interest and drive to actually finish and release an Urban route.... The ease of use of the CM is a boon and a Curse. Its a boon because its easy to use... The curse is that its too easy. Tons of people come in here and announce "Im going to build THE WORLD! It'll have JR Everything, be super detailed, Trans-DEM, and come with Every Locomotive and piece of Rolling Stock Known to man! Oh, btw, can I haz Custom assets, tranzdem, and JR downloads plz?". This attitude invariably (Litterally, without fail, every time), turns alot of content creators off from helping them. Can't say I blame em, but it means theres really not alot of directed content hanging around either (With some notabe exceptions, Tume and BenDorsey (Mr Bridge Maker himself) come to mind, but Tume Creates for his own Routes, DaveSnow has also done alot of smaller town buildings). Anyway, point being, its ease of use encourages people that have never attempted such huge projects to try, and they almost always start too big, ask too much, and disappear in the sands of time after several months.
The second is Content, and this one has sub-issues. The first is a distinct lack of decent urban assets (City Buildings are much bigger with a much broader range of details and "Feels" that set each city, and most buildings within each city, apart, which makes modeling them hard. I don't feel many have really tried since DMdrake disappeared, and his stuff is very outdated at this point). Speaking as someone thats spent countless hours looking exactly for city buildings and what not at this point, its really discouraging.....
The next bit is peoples ability to use whats available. Even this can be broken into the sub categories of "Managing available resource usage", which is an art unto itself in this game. Knowing how and when to use splines to save on system performance is a small but important part of route building....
Then you get people's endurance to map out and plink down enough assets to create a convincing Scene, much less an Urban one. Which btw figure is going to have somewhere over 10 times the amount of objects a Rural one will. Theres lots of desert routes in this game because deserts don't have alot in them and as a result are pretty easy to model.....
Finally for Content is working knowledge of the asset/Database library.... If you're looking to replace "That building", you need to know what might work there and the only way to do that is to have some idea of whats out there. As of the Radio Show this morning, my CM has about 360K known assets listed. Up to 40K of these are non-DLS items (which is a whole nother ball of wax if you ever want to release a route). Last I knew I had about 115K-120K installed Locally (The game comes with about 25K on a virgin install, and 50-70K is what most average users that have been around for a year or more have). The task of familiarizing yourself with these assets is daunting to say the least..... And the slower you are at figuring out what you want in a place means the more time its going to take to fill the hole you're trying to fill..... This can be frustrating to say the least, particularly to the inexperienced or new and is big reason why starting small is best.
Anyway, stick around, learn about route building. Maybe you'll be the first to release a highly detailed full sized city! Assuming the last half of this wasn't depressing enough..... Thanks for reading though if you did.
Falcus
NCTD Oceanside by Robert3a0 (I think its being collaborated with "Brendansbiz", but not sure) is a small part of what I think is going to end up being the majority of the Surfliner Route from southern-Mid-California. Theres really not much "Urban" in what was released either. More "Sub-Urban", and if you've ever seen or ridden that route, theres loads of houses and sandy beaches, and even agriculture. Most of the Urban would be around like LA and San-Diego and those weren't included with whats been released. Further, as I understand it its a WIP still as well. Though what's been done so far is mostly well done, and I really haven't seen many routes like it (Though one must point out that I can think of no other routes that are anything like the Surfliner with the possible exceptions of the NEC and parts of FEC's divisions, someones already made adjustments to NCTD Oceanside to replicate the FEC in Southern Florida, though I think the Ocean is on the wrong side, as it were....).
As long as you're ok with a more sub-urban feel though, you could also try Dericm's(Sp) Michigan Train Routes routes (Sounds funny huh?). He models big chunks of old Grand Trunk Western Sub-Divisions at a time. I don't think he's gotten quite into any of the big cities yet, but I know he has a bigger map he released awhile ago that has tons of sub-urban, approaching Urban (Think large town-ish) areas.
The B&O/WM Megaroute has some Urban-*ISH* areas in it, but those are not the highlight of that route. The detail level in the city(s?) is rather low, and since they tend to be on the end(s) it just feels like the cities didn't have alot of time spent on them. In places the track work isn't even all laid out or joined up together much less ready for screenshots....
Kinda Depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking for the PRR in NYC/Chicago, we ain't got it. Though we do have tons of Sub-Surface Urban routes, just look for the Tram/Subway folks, they're around. We have some "Urban-*ish*" small routes hanging around, switching challenges and the like, (Look into, I think its called Emily Harbor? Emily Bay? Port Emily? I don't remember, Emily something, though its along similar lines to Phil's work).
The problem with Urban Routes in this sim are 2 fold. The first part is a lack of talented route creators with the interest and drive to actually finish and release an Urban route.... The ease of use of the CM is a boon and a Curse. Its a boon because its easy to use... The curse is that its too easy. Tons of people come in here and announce "Im going to build THE WORLD! It'll have JR Everything, be super detailed, Trans-DEM, and come with Every Locomotive and piece of Rolling Stock Known to man! Oh, btw, can I haz Custom assets, tranzdem, and JR downloads plz?". This attitude invariably (Litterally, without fail, every time), turns alot of content creators off from helping them. Can't say I blame em, but it means theres really not alot of directed content hanging around either (With some notabe exceptions, Tume and BenDorsey (Mr Bridge Maker himself) come to mind, but Tume Creates for his own Routes, DaveSnow has also done alot of smaller town buildings). Anyway, point being, its ease of use encourages people that have never attempted such huge projects to try, and they almost always start too big, ask too much, and disappear in the sands of time after several months.
The second is Content, and this one has sub-issues. The first is a distinct lack of decent urban assets (City Buildings are much bigger with a much broader range of details and "Feels" that set each city, and most buildings within each city, apart, which makes modeling them hard. I don't feel many have really tried since DMdrake disappeared, and his stuff is very outdated at this point). Speaking as someone thats spent countless hours looking exactly for city buildings and what not at this point, its really discouraging.....
The next bit is peoples ability to use whats available. Even this can be broken into the sub categories of "Managing available resource usage", which is an art unto itself in this game. Knowing how and when to use splines to save on system performance is a small but important part of route building....
Then you get people's endurance to map out and plink down enough assets to create a convincing Scene, much less an Urban one. Which btw figure is going to have somewhere over 10 times the amount of objects a Rural one will. Theres lots of desert routes in this game because deserts don't have alot in them and as a result are pretty easy to model.....
Finally for Content is working knowledge of the asset/Database library.... If you're looking to replace "That building", you need to know what might work there and the only way to do that is to have some idea of whats out there. As of the Radio Show this morning, my CM has about 360K known assets listed. Up to 40K of these are non-DLS items (which is a whole nother ball of wax if you ever want to release a route). Last I knew I had about 115K-120K installed Locally (The game comes with about 25K on a virgin install, and 50-70K is what most average users that have been around for a year or more have). The task of familiarizing yourself with these assets is daunting to say the least..... And the slower you are at figuring out what you want in a place means the more time its going to take to fill the hole you're trying to fill..... This can be frustrating to say the least, particularly to the inexperienced or new and is big reason why starting small is best.
Anyway, stick around, learn about route building. Maybe you'll be the first to release a highly detailed full sized city! Assuming the last half of this wasn't depressing enough..... Thanks for reading though if you did.
Falcus
May I suggest www.ccrx.us? It has lots of local and road switching and some mainline ops as well.
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OverlordNZ
Grumpy Old Bastar*
I prefer to be thought of as 'currently inactive'.
Some of us were just hiding..glad to see you came out Drake
As Falcus says here, urban routes are difficult to build the right way. One of the biggest problems is putting in too much content. Urban routes can create slideshows if they're not constructed properly. In our minds we see the super-sized hump yard, passenger terminal, coaching yards, engine terminal, LCL warehouses, and other business located along depot avenue and railroad square. This alone can bring a route to a slideshow once all the buildings, tracks, and of course the actors - the trains in the scene are loaded. The problem is we also want to add in the shopping strip, the big office buildings, houses, mansions, and industries that dot a city. Add all this, plus an active trolley (tram) line, and all the little details that go along with this, and we'll surely have a slideshow. This I can say is something I have discovered the hard way on more than one occasion. Even now I'm working on my hometown, a medium-sized city, located in the lower Merrimack Valley in Massachusetts.
Content creators, such as Dave Drake (dmdrake), Dave Snow (davesnow), and others have created some nice buildings. The thing is to use these carefully and only model what can be seen rather than everything we want to see. Picking and choosing has to be done carefully since adding in too much will create the above-mentioned slideshow, while not having enough will create a grossly too small a town.
This battle is not a new thing and has gone on since the earliest days in Trainz and even MSTS. It's our computer hardware that has caused the limitations and not the programs. Hopefully our newer, now delayed, version of Trainz coming out next year will better handle cities and their surroundings as this program makes use of the newer hardware and operating systems which handle more memory and graphics more efficiently.
John
Content creators, such as Dave Drake (dmdrake), Dave Snow (davesnow), and others have created some nice buildings. The thing is to use these carefully and only model what can be seen rather than everything we want to see. Picking and choosing has to be done carefully since adding in too much will create the above-mentioned slideshow, while not having enough will create a grossly too small a town.
This battle is not a new thing and has gone on since the earliest days in Trainz and even MSTS. It's our computer hardware that has caused the limitations and not the programs. Hopefully our newer, now delayed, version of Trainz coming out next year will better handle cities and their surroundings as this program makes use of the newer hardware and operating systems which handle more memory and graphics more efficiently.
John
Agreed, John. Very little content available is really suitable for suburban/urban environments and detailed enough for close-up viewing. I found that I pretty much had to make key content myself, and that I absolutely HAD HAD HAD to use LoD or make low-poly stuff, no exceptions. I even found a bug in the DLS upload bot's handling of LoD; that's how important it is to use it. Unfortunately, few creators use LoD, so there was no choice here, and I've even had to make replacements for other's stuff.
Even so, Drake's content can actually be used in fair quantity. Just don't look at it close-up.
Even so, Drake's content can actually be used in fair quantity. Just don't look at it close-up.
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Wow, Hello Mr Drake. I have tons of your stuff, and still use it. I do stand by what I said though, it being outdated. It was awesome stuff for its time, but with the way TS12 does textures and what not, it's too easy for a scene to look off if I drop, say, a JR Diesel or a K&L Steamer in front of a 2D Building with lower Res Texturing. Mostly what I've been using your stuff for is low-resource background items, and they work VERY well in that regard.
Hello Overlord, I'm not as familiar with your content, but if you're someone else thats been Lurking, and a former content creator to boot, I'm sure your contributions were appreciated by many, and I'm glad to see you around.
@Everyone else
At this point, you pretty much have to build it yourself to get a decent Urban scene. And what you can do is heavily dictated by your Hardware, as JCitron pointed out.
Further, as RRSignal pointed out, alot of content will have to either be created/imported by yourself. There just hasn't been much emphasis on Urban Buildings, I think because everyone just figures "Nobody has the machine capability and the interest to do it". The only other option is to find "Suitable Stand-ins". I've done all of these in one form or another at this point, and I personally have only done maybe 45 City Blocks or so, and many of them aren't complete, just what needs to be seen from the tracks, and where possible, above the tracks.
Between these 2 shots, Theres 6? Sketchup Models, which is Huge. Between the Two BIG sky Scrapers theres 12,000 Polygons..... The stations together weigh in at about half that IIRC, and the Stadiums are about 8 or 9K as I recall. The rest is pre-built, and I've just used as I've had to make things fit, look correct, and try to fit how I feel the Scene should "Feel" to a user...... But if you want an Urban Route, this is basically what you have to do, build it yourself. I've tried asking, very quietly and subtly for a few pieces of content to be built, but only one author has ever actually tried to work with me on anything, and though we got close enough in the end, he definitely had his own way of doing things. It REALLY is NOT an easy task to build a route in this game.....
Falcus
Hello Overlord, I'm not as familiar with your content, but if you're someone else thats been Lurking, and a former content creator to boot, I'm sure your contributions were appreciated by many, and I'm glad to see you around.
@Everyone else
At this point, you pretty much have to build it yourself to get a decent Urban scene. And what you can do is heavily dictated by your Hardware, as JCitron pointed out.
Further, as RRSignal pointed out, alot of content will have to either be created/imported by yourself. There just hasn't been much emphasis on Urban Buildings, I think because everyone just figures "Nobody has the machine capability and the interest to do it". The only other option is to find "Suitable Stand-ins". I've done all of these in one form or another at this point, and I personally have only done maybe 45 City Blocks or so, and many of them aren't complete, just what needs to be seen from the tracks, and where possible, above the tracks.
Between these 2 shots, Theres 6? Sketchup Models, which is Huge. Between the Two BIG sky Scrapers theres 12,000 Polygons..... The stations together weigh in at about half that IIRC, and the Stadiums are about 8 or 9K as I recall. The rest is pre-built, and I've just used as I've had to make things fit, look correct, and try to fit how I feel the Scene should "Feel" to a user...... But if you want an Urban Route, this is basically what you have to do, build it yourself. I've tried asking, very quietly and subtly for a few pieces of content to be built, but only one author has ever actually tried to work with me on anything, and though we got close enough in the end, he definitely had his own way of doing things. It REALLY is NOT an easy task to build a route in this game.....
Falcus
Hi Falcus, you are absolutely right. I haven’t built anything since the release of the DHR Route, in 2006, eight years ago. I have, however noticed many recent screens with my buildings and I have to say that some of them still look good. Many of my building used large image maps and have pretty good resolution.
Keep up the good work!
Dave
Hi Dave,
I agree, and for the same reasons: A lot of your stuff still looks good BECAUSE of the quality of the textures. As a result, I still use it. Thanks for all your hard work.
Hot_Box_Detector
Member
:Y::Y: Excellent route !!!
Friends, I've watched and pondered this thread for a couple of days. I've had a number of insights, some of which are worth sharing.
One of them is that, depending upon the time and place being modeled, "urban routes" are not of as much interest to me as more "rural" ones. One reason for this is that some of the things I like to see, like meets of high speed trains, or vistas with a train threading through a cut, or a train crossing a bridge over a spectacular canyon, just do not exist on urban routes. I have on my "routes to do" list a route of Mobile, Alabama, USA, especially featuring the Terminal Alabama State Docks railway, and the other railroads that ran into town: the GMN, MO, L&N, SOU, SLSF all bringing in freight of various kinds to be switched to the various wharves, elevators, the aluminum plants, and the paper mills. But how much "urban route" does one need for a good model or urban railroads? The size of the urban part of the route might be small--I remember estimating that to model what I wanted to do, would take something on the order of 75 to 100 boards, but many of these would have zero railroad content whatsoever, and would at best, serve as a backdrop for baseboards that do have railroad content.
The second insight that I'll share is that when I look at what I consider the "good" routes, from the past, whether urban or rural, it appears that every one of them were created by a group of collaborators, and that these groups were of substantial size, perhaps a dozen people, possibly more, collaborating on the route. Many hands make light work. But as I consider the TRAINZ landscape today, I don't see nearly as many groups. And that's not all bad. But I don't see successor groups--at least not groups of the same scale--forming, and beginning to make their own routes, and content. That's more troubling, and I don't know the answer of how to fix it.
[Note here: I do not mean to suggest that there have not been efforts to create a group, but the ones I've seen have been smaller--two and three people--than some of those in the past, which seemed to have a dozen or more collaborators.]
Finally, if one is going to do a route of Mobile, Dallas, Chicago, Memphis, or Milwaukee (to pick five urban areas at random), it helps to have several members of the group actually located in the urban area modeled. I know there are a few Trainzers in the urban area in which I live (Dallas-Fort Worth), but I'm not aware that we've ever had a "meet and greet". For doing a really good urban route, that's a good first step.
Another alternative is for those who have ideas for routes and are wanting to put together a team, post a proposal--maybe a new subforum would be good for this, a kind of specialized community bulletin board, rather like the contests, or screenshots forums. Maybe a kickstarter campaign, like N3V did with the upgrade to the game engine.
But I am not completely in dspair, here. In the coming months, T:ANE will be out, and N3V will put out a call for new routes for version T:ANE +1, so that we might then see some new groups formed, who will produce new routes.
ns
I
One of them is that, depending upon the time and place being modeled, "urban routes" are not of as much interest to me as more "rural" ones. One reason for this is that some of the things I like to see, like meets of high speed trains, or vistas with a train threading through a cut, or a train crossing a bridge over a spectacular canyon, just do not exist on urban routes. I have on my "routes to do" list a route of Mobile, Alabama, USA, especially featuring the Terminal Alabama State Docks railway, and the other railroads that ran into town: the GMN, MO, L&N, SOU, SLSF all bringing in freight of various kinds to be switched to the various wharves, elevators, the aluminum plants, and the paper mills. But how much "urban route" does one need for a good model or urban railroads? The size of the urban part of the route might be small--I remember estimating that to model what I wanted to do, would take something on the order of 75 to 100 boards, but many of these would have zero railroad content whatsoever, and would at best, serve as a backdrop for baseboards that do have railroad content.
The second insight that I'll share is that when I look at what I consider the "good" routes, from the past, whether urban or rural, it appears that every one of them were created by a group of collaborators, and that these groups were of substantial size, perhaps a dozen people, possibly more, collaborating on the route. Many hands make light work. But as I consider the TRAINZ landscape today, I don't see nearly as many groups. And that's not all bad. But I don't see successor groups--at least not groups of the same scale--forming, and beginning to make their own routes, and content. That's more troubling, and I don't know the answer of how to fix it.
[Note here: I do not mean to suggest that there have not been efforts to create a group, but the ones I've seen have been smaller--two and three people--than some of those in the past, which seemed to have a dozen or more collaborators.]
Finally, if one is going to do a route of Mobile, Dallas, Chicago, Memphis, or Milwaukee (to pick five urban areas at random), it helps to have several members of the group actually located in the urban area modeled. I know there are a few Trainzers in the urban area in which I live (Dallas-Fort Worth), but I'm not aware that we've ever had a "meet and greet". For doing a really good urban route, that's a good first step.
Another alternative is for those who have ideas for routes and are wanting to put together a team, post a proposal--maybe a new subforum would be good for this, a kind of specialized community bulletin board, rather like the contests, or screenshots forums. Maybe a kickstarter campaign, like N3V did with the upgrade to the game engine.
But I am not completely in dspair, here. In the coming months, T:ANE will be out, and N3V will put out a call for new routes for version T:ANE +1, so that we might then see some new groups formed, who will produce new routes.
ns
I
Collaborative routes are not easy in Trainz due to the way the files are handled. Instead of just handing off the route, we have all the dependencies that go with it. As the route grows there are more and more dependencies to hand back and forth because, as you know, not everyone has the same dependencies as the other person no matter how many assets we have. I'm saying this with experience. Steamboateng (Mike) and I have found that when we were working together on the Hoosac Tunnel route. This route would fit the bill for many Trainzers since this is a mountainous route on one side of the tunnel and truly urban on the other with North Adams and its surroundings becoming the center point and focus of the route. Perhaps when it's finally completed, we can hand this off as a masterpiece to the community, however, as we know this isn't just a technical project and like all routes is a work of art.
As we've worked on the route, we've run into various snags, questions, and issues with the plethora of custom buildings, bridges, factory buildings, house, and other structures required in the city. What appeared to be generic buildings on first look, turned into a nightmare of custom buildings. Since we're working with a historic organization, we also need to meet their requirements which unfortunately for us, means we have to create even more custom buildings. The city is also known for its large number of churches, for example. Granted they're not all located near the tracks, but their spires surely show up on the horizon in abundance. We also have the two railroad companies with their two differently styled buildings in close proximity. The grand North Adams station (burned down in the 1960s), is a center point between both companies. Sadly, there are only a few historic photos and no plans available for this building which was so important for the growth of the city. Today, there is nothing left of the station, not even a footprint, or a granite block. Today it's an Italian American Club and some other modern structure on the site. The tracks too are gone. What was once a large 20-track yard with at least two engine facilities remaining by the 1940s, is down today to two tracks with a rusty siding. This then is reduced to single track on the Fitchburg (B&M), and a single weeded-over branch which was once the Pittsfield branch that terminates at the Zilonite plant located in the hamlet of the same name.
Outside from this the question then comes up of what to include and what not to. The Hoosac valley contains numerous mills, farms, and small hamlets. With its broad horizon and Hoosac Mountain Range, Mount Greylock, and other taller hills, we don't want to lop that off too close, or eliminate the tree cover. Granted, we've chosen the mid-1940s so there are fewer trees than today, but that doesn't mean they're completely gone. The area hills are covered with numerous stands of birch, white oak, maple, ash, white pine, red pine, hemlock, and spruce. Closer to the tracks are red sumac (the non-poisonous kind), shag bark hickory, and much undergrowth. Removing this from the scene is as detrimental as is eliminating big hunks of the city.
I do agree that the dynamics of the community are changing. This is typical of a mature product and a mature community in general as people move on in many different ways and due to many different reasons. Perhaps T:ANE will rejuvenate the community and bring back some of the old-times as well as inspire the new users to create great projects whether they are collaborative urban routes or not. The issues I see going forward, for content creation, are the steeper modeling requirements needed for T:ANE. Older-style models will work, but will not have the same effects as the newer ones do. With newer normal maps and LOD target requirements, this may move the model creation abilities out of the hands of many casual modelers, causing a change in dynamics here as well.
John
As we've worked on the route, we've run into various snags, questions, and issues with the plethora of custom buildings, bridges, factory buildings, house, and other structures required in the city. What appeared to be generic buildings on first look, turned into a nightmare of custom buildings. Since we're working with a historic organization, we also need to meet their requirements which unfortunately for us, means we have to create even more custom buildings. The city is also known for its large number of churches, for example. Granted they're not all located near the tracks, but their spires surely show up on the horizon in abundance. We also have the two railroad companies with their two differently styled buildings in close proximity. The grand North Adams station (burned down in the 1960s), is a center point between both companies. Sadly, there are only a few historic photos and no plans available for this building which was so important for the growth of the city. Today, there is nothing left of the station, not even a footprint, or a granite block. Today it's an Italian American Club and some other modern structure on the site. The tracks too are gone. What was once a large 20-track yard with at least two engine facilities remaining by the 1940s, is down today to two tracks with a rusty siding. This then is reduced to single track on the Fitchburg (B&M), and a single weeded-over branch which was once the Pittsfield branch that terminates at the Zilonite plant located in the hamlet of the same name.
Outside from this the question then comes up of what to include and what not to. The Hoosac valley contains numerous mills, farms, and small hamlets. With its broad horizon and Hoosac Mountain Range, Mount Greylock, and other taller hills, we don't want to lop that off too close, or eliminate the tree cover. Granted, we've chosen the mid-1940s so there are fewer trees than today, but that doesn't mean they're completely gone. The area hills are covered with numerous stands of birch, white oak, maple, ash, white pine, red pine, hemlock, and spruce. Closer to the tracks are red sumac (the non-poisonous kind), shag bark hickory, and much undergrowth. Removing this from the scene is as detrimental as is eliminating big hunks of the city.
I do agree that the dynamics of the community are changing. This is typical of a mature product and a mature community in general as people move on in many different ways and due to many different reasons. Perhaps T:ANE will rejuvenate the community and bring back some of the old-times as well as inspire the new users to create great projects whether they are collaborative urban routes or not. The issues I see going forward, for content creation, are the steeper modeling requirements needed for T:ANE. Older-style models will work, but will not have the same effects as the newer ones do. With newer normal maps and LOD target requirements, this may move the model creation abilities out of the hands of many casual modelers, causing a change in dynamics here as well.
John