Does anybody else's PC slowly cook itself in Surveyor?

epa

Angry Trainz Nerd
Experts say regularly sustained CPU temps above 80C/176F can cause damage to the silicon.

Let it be known, my PC was not built for efficiency. It's a mid-range-budget-build-turned-Frankenstein-Monster, a mix of old and new, cheap and expensive components, cobbled together into a case from an old prebuilt system with as many fans as it can handle. But by some miracle, it works, and works decently well (if you ignore the strange noises it makes when first booting up and when it gets hot). I'm planning a new PC build here soon, a Christmas present to myself, so this one can finally rest... or be scavenged for another project, I haven't really decided.

The cooling system... well, it's there. For now I'm just using the cheap cooler that came with my Ryzen 5 5600x (I promise it was supposed to be temporary). It's really not enough for a gaming rig, however, most games don't get it above 80-85c. Trainz is the exception to that. Surveyor specifically.

I've been on-and-off working on a few route projects that will never see the light of day because they will never be finished. I got a bit of a creative hair last night, so I've had a bit of a route building marathon session. That's when I noticed it getting uncomfortably warm in the room. After double-checking that the air conditioning was still working, I decided to pull up CoreTemp on my second monitor (I usually have it up while doing any gaming, but forgot this one time). YOWZA! My CPU temp was at a whopping 96C, for my fellow Americans, that's 204.8F, you could fry an egg on that thing.

I quickly saved my work and closed the game, allowing my system to cool a little bit before getting back to it. This time, monitoring my temps while working so see what's causing the temp to get so dadgum high. Just flying around my route (granted, it's pretty bare and still untextured), I see temps in the mid-high 70s, which is to be expected. Adding scenery or splines, it crawls up to right around 80. But when I zoom out into map view, that's when temps really start going up, 85-88C or so. And when I'm forming terrain, adding some light rolling hills to my flat route, my CPU temp very quickly exceeds 90C, up to about 95 or so before it starts throttling and slowing everything down.

Obviously, this is a bit of a downer on my all-night route building marathon, seeing as how I can only work in short bursts to keep my PC from cooking itself.

Does anybody else have this problem, or is it just my janky PC?

Matt - currently at 58C just writing this forum post.
 
Yeah, I've noticed that Trainz can make computers run hot too. My own PC that I currently use is a low-to-mid-level gaming laptop (stats in my sig), so it's not the best benchmark available since laptops often tend to run hotter than desktops, but I too suffer from higher-than-normal temps when using surveyor. Nowadays my PC hovers round 80-85*C during an average Trainz session, but I run my fans at about half of their maximum speed when running Trainz to cut down on noise - if I ran them at max speed I could possibly see a somewhat lesser temperature.
 
Keeping the CPU cool is a major problem. My current favourite system would be a Dell 5820, if you're in Canada dellrefurbished.ca have a few 5820 i9s 14 core that are worth looking at, in the US there are a few with xeon processors. Look them up to see which is the most powerful but the GPU is the main thing. You'll need a decent GPU but there's room in the cases for one and the power supply is normally sufficient for anything. RTX 4090 can run very hot so I'd stay at RTX 4080 or under. I quite like the RTX 4070. There are one or two with RTX 4000 or RTX5000 and those are quite respectable GPUs for Trainz.


Cheerio John
 
Keeping the CPU cool is a major problem. My current favourite system would be a Dell 5820, if you're in Canada dellrefurbished.ca have a few 5820 i9s 14 core that are worth looking at, in the US there are a few with xeon processors. Look them up to see which is the most powerful but the GPU is the main thing. You'll need a decent GPU but there's room in the cases for one and the power supply is normally sufficient for anything. RTX 4090 can run very hot so I'd stay at RTX 4080 or under. I quite like the RTX 4070. There are one or two with RTX 4000 or RTX5000 and those are quite respectable GPUs for Trainz.


Cheerio John
Thanks for the suggestions, John. I do appreciate it.

I actually already have the components picked out for my next PC, now onto the hard part -- buying it all. I'm thinking a Ryzen 7 7800X3D and a 4070 Ti Super, maybe a 4080 if the price is right. I mulled AMD GPUs for a long time, but Trainz seems to prefer Nvidia. I use this system for other games besides Trainz, and I'm finding it quite lacking for newer titles. This system lasted me 8 years with a few upgrades along the way, I'm hoping to get at least that long out of my next build. And yeah, I'm definitely researching a good cooler. I'm not sold on liquid cooling, but there are quite a few good, strong air coolers out there now.

Matt
 
Definitely is your janky cooler the one which brings the problem. Update it ASAP.
 
One of the major problems with computers is heat and it has been for a very long time. My father-in-law was an electrical engineer designing mainframes more than 50 years ago and heat was always his biggest problem. Cooling is a major problem, and layout of components in the case can make or break a system. Most office systems use about 3% of the CPU except for the occasional burst and often computers are designed to cope with that amount of heat. Trainz as you note runs the CPU and GPU a lot harder and getting rid of the heat becomes a major problem. So much so that the high end systems have an engineer who is specifically tasked with designing the cooling of the system as a whole. When you assemble a custom built machine getting the cooling right is the hard part and AMD CPUs have a reputation of running warm.

If you look at the air flow on the different Dell cases you'll see that the larger cases have a bigger airflow and the 5820 is a really nice case. CPU well John Citron did some tests with TANE when it came out and he noted that the CPU temperature was lower than TS12 but the GPU temperature was higher. So for Trainz the GPU is more important than the CPU. The 14 core i9s might not be quite as fast as an AMD but they are quite respectable performers and the price of a 3 year old 5820 off lease is a lot cheaper than the original cost.

I think the RTX 4070 ti is an ideal GPU, so you just need something to feed it. I don't think the CPU is that critical for most users of Trainz but it does depend on the content. Surveyor is interesting as you don't really care too much about frames per second so if the CPU is the limiting factor it doesn't matter quite as much as when you're running the sim.

Have fun is the main aim of all this.

Cheerio John
 
There’s a number of superior cases (better cooling) around. I’m using a “Fractal” case. There’s space for 3 intake fans and 2 outlet. One of the outlet (case top) has the radiator for the liquid cooing of the cpu.
Most gpus have a software app - I’ve customised mine for 100% fan before 70C. Seems to help!
 
There’s a number of superior cases (better cooling) around. I’m using a “Fractal” case. There’s space for 3 intake fans and 2 outlet. One of the outlet (case top) has the radiator for the liquid cooing of the cpu.
Most gpus have a software app - I’ve customised mine for 100% fan before 70C. Seems to help!
A Fractal case is what I'm thinking for my next build because of their cooling capabilities. No way this one's gonna overheat!

Matt
 
Definitely is your janky cooler the one which brings the problem. Update it ASAP.
I wouldn’t say that the old cooler is the root of the problem, because my CPU is cooled by a real nice Corsair 360mm AIO and I see 90C temperatures with Trainz frequently.

Cheers
 
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Weird. When I use TRS22, CPU barely reaches 10% of its usage. And more taking into account that most Trainz instructions are done by the GPU.
I wouldn’t say that the old cooler is the root of the problem, because my CPU is cooled by a real nice Corsair 360mm AIO and I see 90C temperatures with Trainz frequently.

Cheers
 
Definitely is your janky cooler the one which brings the problem. Update it ASAP.
This is the solution I used to replace the failing stock cooling setup on my GPU. I am sure there are better or higher capacity units now.
UPDATE: as I was saying... and now I found something called

RAIJINTEK Morpheus 8069, GPU VGA Cooler (TDP 400W), Compatible with NVIDIA 3090 & AMD 6900, Supports 120mm*2 Fans​


MORPHEUS II CORE EDITION, whole heatsink black coated, a superior high-end VGA cooler, designed to meet cooling capacity up to 360 Watts of TDP.
 
Weird. When I use TRS22, CPU barely reaches 10% of its usage. And more taking into account that most Trainz instructions are done by the GPU.
In old surveyor I get 19% GPU and a temp of 46c, 37% CPU temp 67, in driver 19% GPU and temp 46, CPU 9% and temp 36c so surveyor does seem to work the CPU a lot more.

It probably depends on content and where you set the performance sliders.

Cheerio John
 
Normal route-running and most editing temps in hi-70 to 80. Editing terrain is a killer. Just thank of how many calculations are needed to run the cursor across an area just to change an elevation. Every elevation, shadow, texture and tree/building must be instantly recalculated. Move cursor slowly or in steps to avoid this.
 
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