Creating a simple junction terminates track?

[harishankar]

I have a strange bug which I have never encountered before.

I have two parallel tracks and I created a crossover between them. I always get a "line terminated or closed" signal before it. When I remove the crossover the line becomes normal and the signal shifts back to the normal message.

________________________
_______________/________ broken

The opposite crossover works
________________________ works
_______________\________

I removed the offending sections of tracks several times and retried over and over with the same result! Even after laying the tracks in different orientations.

The opposite crossover works perfectly, but whenever I try to manually drive a train through this junction the locomotive flies off at a right angle after just hitting the offending junction.

Even after removing the track and relaying the junction at different segments, I keep getting this problem.

What is the matter and how do I fix? This is as basic a problem as I've seen. Yet the tracks "break" at the junction??? It's never happened to me before! It breaks the track no matter which section of the track I lay this direction of junction in...

This is the most basic thing in Surveyor and yet the tracks fail to work properly?

 

[Dermmy]

'Line terminates or closed' means there is no signal or end-of-track marker between a junction and the end of the line. You need a track bumper/buffer stop/insert local coloquialism at the end of every siding/spur/whatever...

Andy

 

[harishankar]

Thanks. As a matter of fact, it was because the junction was pointing the other way. Switching the junction removed the problem.

Now I've another problem running AI train. It's simply not running at all even when the path is clear and the green light is given. I seem not to be able to find the problem.

 

[plumlazy1]

It's been my experience that when I have an AI train that dosen't run at all when I give it a command to go somewhere, I have a problem with my track or signaling. Usually it's a track problem. In which case, if I can't see the problem, I drive the train manually to said point. In almost every case, I find the problem when I derail.. hope this helps.

 

[harishankar]

It's been my experience that when I have an AI train that dosen't run at all when I give it a command to go somewhere, I have a problem with my track or signaling. Usually it's a track problem. In which case, if I can't see the problem, I drive the train manually to said point. In almost every case, I find the problem when I derail.. hope this helps.

Yes, but the AI is so stupid it cannot switch on its own, unless you give it a specific command. So the "autopilot" mode is worse than useless except in the simplest configurations.

 

[Dermmy]

Yes, but the AI is so stupid it cannot switch on its own, unless you give it a specific command. So the "autopilot" mode is worse than useless except in the simplest configurations.

Sorry, but that is utter nonsense. Is the Trainz AI perfect - no, it isn't. But if the signalling on the route is done right it works. And 'done right' does NOT mean as-per-the -prototype. It means the signalling has to be configured to what the AI expects.

If you work within the AI's acceptable parameters it works like a charm If it doesn't you are expecting too much.

The AI-run session on my Clovis Sub runs numerous portal-generated trainz over 60 miles of double bi-directional main with a single track snarl in the middle of the route and a complex yard to negotiate at the western end and I have a saved session which has run in total almost 24 hours without human intervention....

Andy

 

[harishankar]

Sorry, but that is utter nonsense. Is the Trainz AI perfect - no, it isn't. But if the signalling on the route is done right it works. And 'done right' does NOT mean as-per-the -prototype. It means the signalling has to be configured to what the AI expects.

If you work within the AI's acceptable parameters it works like a charm If it doesn't you are expecting too much.

The AI-run session on my Clovis Sub runs numerous portal-generated trainz over 60 miles of double bi-directional main with a single track snarl in the middle of the route and a complex yard to negotiate at the western end and I have a saved session which has run in total almost 24 hours without human intervention....

Andy

I am not experienced at placing signals so that the AI runs correctly, but why does an autopilot AI train stop dead at a junction where the track is pointing the other way instead of switching the junction ahead? (I mean a junction that is converging, not a diverging junction). It seems such a bleeding obvious situation to me.

Maybe autopilot is not the best way to run AI trains?

 

[Dermmy]

If the junction is laid right and signalled right the AI WILL run thru the junction. If it won't there is a problem. Post a screenshot of the offending trackwork and we will see if we can sort it out....

Andy

 

[harishankar]

If the junction is laid right and signalled right the AI WILL run thru the junction. If it won't there is a problem. Post a screenshot of the offending trackwork and we will see if we can sort it out....

Andy

Thanks I will do.

 

[harishankar]

Here are the junctions where train approaching from station side stops on the track with the red direction of the marker.

 

[ldowns]

It's hard to tell from the screenshots but it looks as if some of your levers may be too close to the points. I've found that placing the lever at the opposite end of the spline circle (still within it, but just barely) from the actual points is more reliable as far as the AI is concerned.

Hope this helps,
Lamont

 

[Starr_Man5]

I've been working on a route at the minute, and for some reason I could never get the train out of the station; it just derailed as soon as it came to a point.
I was totally baffled because the point was set correctly (green arrow, obviously) and I was lifting and re-laying the track to no avail.
I must go back and try the tips on this page....

 

[scorpio48]

Hi
Looking at your screen shots it looks like a short passing loop. I can't make-out what's beyond the bridge.

Do you derail if you drive manually ?
Have you placed the correct signals to the approach (not shown in screenshots) ?
What junction/signal set-up have you beyond the bridge ?

Cheers
Pete

 

[nismit]

That's not a bug, that's a feature

First AI and Autopilot are two very different modes. The first will set junctions, the second will only drive the train as the signals permit.

Looking a the screen shot, it would appear the lever of junction 46 is placed on the left branch, while the default setting also favours the left branch. In this configuration a train coming from the right branch cannot "see" the lever controlling the junction ahead (because it is on the left branch), hence the AI train will not be able to throw the switch.

Either change default direction to right or move the lever to the single track side of the junction vertex.

/nis

 

[Dermmy]

Your signal and junction lever placements need fixed. Approaching a junction from the facing direction the AI must see Signal > Lever > Diverging Spline point in that order.

From the trailing direction the order must be Signal > Spline point > Diverging spline point > Lever.

It should look like this:

If you rework your levers and signals to that arrangement it WILL work. As you have it it wont....

Andy

 

[Capt_Haddock]

You might also find it helpful to read through Chuck Brite's tutorials here.

Most aspects of track laying and signalling are covered; saved me hours of frustration when I started out.
Regards

Chris

 

[harishankar]

Thanks for the help above.

I think something went wrong when I moved the junction (to make the gap between the tracks larger).

I'll definitely look into the tutorials for track laying and signalling mentioned.

As of now, the AI is currently working fine when I issue orders to it. It is even able to remove the train from the station to the yard by reversing. It's only autopilot trains that get stuck at those junctions.